[Grades] Grades v. Celtics 2/7/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Every thread turns into a thread about IT lol. I'm glad most of us are on the same page about him though, he's obviously not the long term solution at PG and we should get rid of him while his value is at an all-time high. I just hope that after February 20th, we will no longer have to talk about him. Hopefully PDA gets things done by then
Proud minion, and respect others opinions.
Won't spend too much time but I think he has the tools to be above average defensively. Indiana was the last team I've seen actively trying to post him, and they only did that for a few ineffective possessions. Can we agree that his speed is off the charts seeing as no one can keep him in front, so why can he not apply this quickness on the defensive end which I have seen him do on many occasions. The team actually gives up 3 points less per 100 possessions with him on the court , and I have seen folks blaming IT for situations caused by a bad team d which would make many pg look inept.
Why has IT, rudy and cuz looked problematic so far? Rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with IT and the record with all three is competitive. How has the defense with all three looked the last 2 home games?
I would give them more time. I don't think IT perceived value is high given his upcoming free agency.
Won't spend too much time but I think he has the tools to be above average defensively. Indiana was the last team I've seen actively trying to post him, and they only did that for a few ineffective possessions. Can we agree that his speed is off the charts seeing as no one can keep him in front, so why can he not apply this quickness on the defensive end which I have seen him do on many occasions. The team actually gives up 3 points less per 100 possessions with him on the court , and I have seen folks blaming IT for situations caused by a bad team d which would make many pg look inept.
Why has IT, rudy and cuz looked problematic so far? Rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with IT and the record with all three is competitive. How has the defense with all three looked the last 2 home games?
I would give them more time. I don't think IT perceived value is high given his upcoming free agency.
isaiah thomas is a one-way player, plain and simple. he likes to shoot the ball. he likes to shoot it often. he doesn't have natural instincts for passing the ball. he doesn't have natural instincts for getting the ball to his teammates where they can be most effective. isaiah thomas is not a natural playmaker in the same way that "REKE IS NOT A PG!!1111!!11!!111!!!!" IT's instinct is to score first. passing comes second. and defense is somewhere towards the bottom of his list of priorities...
beyond the fact that his effort on the more important side of the ball is pathetic given his footspeed, IT's size is and will always be a limiting factor and a considerable problem as a member of the starting unit. he consistently gets stuck on screens (and then fails to give an effort in recovery), and opposing PG's shoot over him with ease. he's always a step behind, and it is untenable for the kings to lose so much defensive ground because of their backcourt when their franchise cornerstone is a poor help defender. you point out that the kings give up three points less per 100 possessions while thomas is on the floor as if that actually means something. he's averaging about 37 mpg since the rudy gay trade, and he's got jimmer fredette spelling him off the bench. that three-point differential isn't much to write home about without context...
elsewhere, IT often struggles to make the easy pass, and in many situations, it has nothing to do with his not-insignificant tunnel vision; i've actually seen him jump in the air to make a simple entry pass to demarcus cousins on more than one occasion. again, his size is a limiting factor, and it is problematic. the notion that "rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with IT" is a massive false equivalency. you could also say that "rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with marcus thornton," and you wouldn't be any more or less accurate...
cuz and gay make each other better. they play off each other well, and they are complementary talents. but isaiah thomas is, more often than not, out for isaiah thomas. don't get me wrong: his skill set is useful. but i find that utility of little value on this particular kings team. why do they need another 20 ppg scorer who doesn't D up worth a damn? now, bring thomas off the bench? sure, that's an excellent strategy, if they can afford to do so. otherwise, i say trade him. he's the kings' most valuable asset outside of cousins and gay. if he's packaged with a larger contract, he can bring back a piece or two that fits a team need or two much better than thomas does...
beyond the fact that his effort on the more important side of the ball is pathetic given his footspeed, IT's size is and will always be a limiting factor and a considerable problem as a member of the starting unit. he consistently gets stuck on screens (and then fails to give an effort in recovery), and opposing PG's shoot over him with ease. he's always a step behind, and it is untenable for the kings to lose so much defensive ground because of their backcourt when their franchise cornerstone is a poor help defender. you point out that the kings give up three points less per 100 possessions while thomas is on the floor as if that actually means something. he's averaging about 37 mpg since the rudy gay trade, and he's got jimmer fredette spelling him off the bench. that three-point differential isn't much to write home about without context...
elsewhere, IT often struggles to make the easy pass, and in many situations, it has nothing to do with his not-insignificant tunnel vision; i've actually seen him jump in the air to make a simple entry pass to demarcus cousins on more than one occasion. again, his size is a limiting factor, and it is problematic. the notion that "rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with IT" is a massive false equivalency. you could also say that "rudy and cuz are playing the ball of their careers with marcus thornton," and you wouldn't be any more or less accurate...
cuz and gay make each other better. they play off each other well, and they are complementary talents. but isaiah thomas is, more often than not, out for isaiah thomas. don't get me wrong: his skill set is useful. but i find that utility of little value on this particular kings team. why do they need another 20 ppg scorer who doesn't D up worth a damn? now, bring thomas off the bench? sure, that's an excellent strategy, if they can afford to do so. otherwise, i say trade him. he's the kings' most valuable asset outside of cousins and gay. if he's packaged with a larger contract, he can bring back a piece or two that fits a team need or two much better than thomas does...
We have less than two weeks to make a move right now for the future. Time is up. Time is the thing we DON'T have. We need to make a move now, or we will be hoping for a sign and trade. Unless we do the unthinkable and keep him. I shudder at the thought and immediately start thinking of new teams to follow. Cause this one will never win a playoff series with our current starting pg. We could scratch out a 7 or 8 seed then get swept IF Rudy doesn't leave. Cuz is a hall of fame talent that deserves more than the last pick of the second round as a running mate. It's just hard to watch. If our pg knew his place, it's be ok. He doesn't though. He plays like he got picked first. Minus the impact.
I think there are very few teams that view him as anything more than a Nate Robinson type. THAT is why his value is low. Plus, at this point we are probably trying to pawn off a MT or Outlaw in any deal. That doesn't really sweeten the pot.
I refuse to say his name as long as he's in a kings uniform. Yes, mighty mouse is stoudamire. He's ruined the experience for me like no other king in their history here. I hate players like him. The bigger his ego gets the worse it gets. I'd like to call him much worse.
I'm at the point with Jerry Reynolds that I absolutely can't stand him anymore. I liked him before. But he's so delusional in regards to our pg I've just completely lost any respect I ever had (respect might be the wrong word, but I didn't despise his presence, it was rather enjoyable). Last game he said "if you don't think he needs to score, you haven't been watching." Really? Why have we never won a game this year where he takes 18+ shots Jerry?
Top 5 scoring games. 38, 38, 29, 29, 27. Loss, loss, loss, loss and finally, loss. Does he NEED to score?
A couple trends. Assists in December to feb. 7.6 to 6.7 to 4.8 in February. 3 pt shooting, .430 to .327 to .278. December he even was getting 1.9 steals. Since then back to 1.2 then 1.0. Scoring of course is trending slightly up (21.1 to 21.2 to 23.0).
Take away the flukey December where he looked like an all star almost (if defense doesn't matter), you've got the numbers of an inefficient me-first chucker. We cannot make the mistake we made with MT and pay him based on a hot streak and then wonder what happened when the bottom falls out. We need to look at the January and February version and see a guy still scoring but barely shooting over .400 from the field, and around .300 from 3. All while running the team late in games and quarters terribly and showing little ability to adjust. A 6'5 SHOOTING guard with these numbers would be fantastic. But that's not what he is.
This team just can't overpay for more mediocre talent that looks good in comparison to his teammates.
I think there are very few teams that view him as anything more than a Nate Robinson type. THAT is why his value is low. Plus, at this point we are probably trying to pawn off a MT or Outlaw in any deal. That doesn't really sweeten the pot.
I refuse to say his name as long as he's in a kings uniform. Yes, mighty mouse is stoudamire. He's ruined the experience for me like no other king in their history here. I hate players like him. The bigger his ego gets the worse it gets. I'd like to call him much worse.
I'm at the point with Jerry Reynolds that I absolutely can't stand him anymore. I liked him before. But he's so delusional in regards to our pg I've just completely lost any respect I ever had (respect might be the wrong word, but I didn't despise his presence, it was rather enjoyable). Last game he said "if you don't think he needs to score, you haven't been watching." Really? Why have we never won a game this year where he takes 18+ shots Jerry?
Top 5 scoring games. 38, 38, 29, 29, 27. Loss, loss, loss, loss and finally, loss. Does he NEED to score?
A couple trends. Assists in December to feb. 7.6 to 6.7 to 4.8 in February. 3 pt shooting, .430 to .327 to .278. December he even was getting 1.9 steals. Since then back to 1.2 then 1.0. Scoring of course is trending slightly up (21.1 to 21.2 to 23.0).
Take away the flukey December where he looked like an all star almost (if defense doesn't matter), you've got the numbers of an inefficient me-first chucker. We cannot make the mistake we made with MT and pay him based on a hot streak and then wonder what happened when the bottom falls out. We need to look at the January and February version and see a guy still scoring but barely shooting over .400 from the field, and around .300 from 3. All while running the team late in games and quarters terribly and showing little ability to adjust. A 6'5 SHOOTING guard with these numbers would be fantastic. But that's not what he is.
This team just can't overpay for more mediocre talent that looks good in comparison to his teammates.
JT is the guy who has impacted Rudy and Cuz the most.
padrino and Chubbs are right and what I find interesting is, although they have been posting the same kinds of messages for the last couple months, the real live data is piling up to make their notes more convincing.
The IT that has been playing in the year 2014 is no star unless the word "star" is defined simply by the number of points scored. This subject will not die until Jerry and Grant open their eyes and quit being cheerleaders. Every time they open their mouths about IT, they perpetuate a myth. Yes, IT can score. Period. I expect the experts who hopefully could educate us would tell us more. As long as they believe scoring defines a star, the subject will stay alive. I fear that the FO is as deluded because Rudy Gay, the same guy who refused to give IT the ball at the end of a quarter, will opt out and go elsewhere.
We cannot afford to lose Rudy. I am tired of losing and not only is IT not part of the solution to turn that around, he may in fact be a reason we will lose the one magnificent addition we have made to the team to head us upward in a rapid trajectory.
padrino and Chubbs are right and what I find interesting is, although they have been posting the same kinds of messages for the last couple months, the real live data is piling up to make their notes more convincing.
The IT that has been playing in the year 2014 is no star unless the word "star" is defined simply by the number of points scored. This subject will not die until Jerry and Grant open their eyes and quit being cheerleaders. Every time they open their mouths about IT, they perpetuate a myth. Yes, IT can score. Period. I expect the experts who hopefully could educate us would tell us more. As long as they believe scoring defines a star, the subject will stay alive. I fear that the FO is as deluded because Rudy Gay, the same guy who refused to give IT the ball at the end of a quarter, will opt out and go elsewhere.
We cannot afford to lose Rudy. I am tired of losing and not only is IT not part of the solution to turn that around, he may in fact be a reason we will lose the one magnificent addition we have made to the team to head us upward in a rapid trajectory.
I think Thomas could be very valuable off the bench if the Kings can find another legitimate starting point guard. However, let's be fair to IT for a second. Even with a point guard like Rondo, this team is still a first round exit every year if they continue to put out a front court of Thompson and Cousins.
If you guys can't stand Reynolds to the point you start hating on certain players, mute the TV and turn on the radio to 1140. As if Reynolds' exaggeration of IT is IT's fault. Please.
IT's struggles seem to coincide with the injuries to Gay and Cousins, but I guess it's not out of reality to expect him to continue his efficiency right?
If you guys can't stand Reynolds to the point you start hating on certain players, mute the TV and turn on the radio to 1140. As if Reynolds' exaggeration of IT is IT's fault. Please.
IT's struggles seem to coincide with the injuries to Gay and Cousins, but I guess it's not out of reality to expect him to continue his efficiency right?
Grant and Jerry sing IT's praises. If he makes a good play it is IT did this or IT did that. He makes a mistake and it is Sacramento did this or Sacramento did that. Except on rare occasion the blame of his mistakes isn't placed at his feet. And no, that is not IT's fault.
Conspiracy quack theory: Is Grant and Jerry's dialogue motivated by one of the team's sponsors? IT seems to be the face of that pizza chains current advertising program. (disclaimer: not sure what other advertising they do locally)
Conspiracy quack theory: Is Grant and Jerry's dialogue motivated by one of the team's sponsors? IT seems to be the face of that pizza chains current advertising program. (disclaimer: not sure what other advertising they do locally)
I very well may have selective hearing (my wife would concur with that), but it seems to me they are much quicker to call out other players by name than they are IT. But it may just be selective hearing and my utter disgust of the continual praising of IT. Although lately there does seem to be a small shift.
They praise all Kings and particularly Cuz, Gay and IT. None of us mind their praising of Cuz and Gay but a large percentage of us don't like hearing IT's praise even though all three of them contribute many outstanding plays for the Kings' cause. Almost as bad as the Jerry and Grant repetions of this annoying stuff is the constant repetions negative statements about IT on here. We have hundreds and thousands of words every day on every thread about"it". There is nothing new offered, we all have read it a hundred times, the rationale is obscure. Must not be much else to talk about. Sorry.
Jerry has repeatedly tried to force IT into All Star conversations.
Last game I had a Sacto feed he was trying to compare him to Ty Lawson and Mike Conley, who he said should be an All Star.
Jerry especially is prone to his wild "there aren't 10 guys better at his posiiton, there may not be 5 guys better" enthusiasms.
Trying to claim that they HAVEN'T pitched him as a star just won't fly. I will say this, after IT's recent efficiency struggles Grant seems to be cooling the rhetoric slightly. Jerry however sounds like he is still using the IT posters over his bed as a marital aid. He's gotten embarrassingly fixated. He is prone to saying a lot of dumb things, but I have never heard him get stuck this badly on one losing point. Even when he's not talking about IT he's talking about IT (queue constant every PG needs to score rants...except for those on the two best teams in the league and last 6 NBA champions of course). If Grant makes a point about anyone on either team doing something good, like clockwork Jerry will chip in with a that's just right Grant, so and so and Isaiah...
Last game I had a Sacto feed he was trying to compare him to Ty Lawson and Mike Conley, who he said should be an All Star.
Jerry especially is prone to his wild "there aren't 10 guys better at his posiiton, there may not be 5 guys better" enthusiasms.
Trying to claim that they HAVEN'T pitched him as a star just won't fly. I will say this, after IT's recent efficiency struggles Grant seems to be cooling the rhetoric slightly. Jerry however sounds like he is still using the IT posters over his bed as a marital aid. He's gotten embarrassingly fixated. He is prone to saying a lot of dumb things, but I have never heard him get stuck this badly on one losing point. Even when he's not talking about IT he's talking about IT (queue constant every PG needs to score rants...except for those on the two best teams in the league and last 6 NBA champions of course). If Grant makes a point about anyone on either team doing something good, like clockwork Jerry will chip in with a that's just right Grant, so and so and Isaiah...
This is a sports team message board. Talking about the same thing over and over is pretty much what it's about. If you check out the forums of any other teams (I can give you names if you like), you'll find the same thing.
Personally, what I do not like about Jerry and Grant's disingenuous praising of IT is that it's exactly that - disingenuous. I (as a fan of the NBA for over 40 years) do not appreciate being lectured to about who I should like and who I shouldn't like, which player I should respect, etc. And yet we hear that from them about IT almost every single night. I find it almost like "The Emperor's New Clothes" ... are they hoping that if they say something often enough people will start to believe it? I'm supposed to believe two paid announcers over my own lying eyes?
I like Isaiah Thomas. I think he has value to the Kings. BUT I do not like him as the starting PG and no matter how often Jerry and Grant say it, I'm not going to change my mind. IT needs to come off the bench as a sparkplug for instant energy and scoring. And if they were being totally honest, I'm pretty sure they'd both say the same thing.
Personally, what I do not like about Jerry and Grant's disingenuous praising of IT is that it's exactly that - disingenuous. I (as a fan of the NBA for over 40 years) do not appreciate being lectured to about who I should like and who I shouldn't like, which player I should respect, etc. And yet we hear that from them about IT almost every single night. I find it almost like "The Emperor's New Clothes" ... are they hoping that if they say something often enough people will start to believe it? I'm supposed to believe two paid announcers over my own lying eyes?
I like Isaiah Thomas. I think he has value to the Kings. BUT I do not like him as the starting PG and no matter how often Jerry and Grant say it, I'm not going to change my mind. IT needs to come off the bench as a sparkplug for instant energy and scoring. And if they were being totally honest, I'm pretty sure they'd both say the same thing.
Oh, shusshhh!!! 
I agree and I try to keep away but then .................... my brain goes pfffttt!! and I post anyway. I have "Ignored" 4 people to help the problem and try to respond or co-sign only to somebody who has given careful thought to what he/she is saying.
If Jerry or Grant read this, and I think there is long standing evidence that someone in the organization reads this forum, I want to be clear of what my opinions are. I hope they are intelligent. I am particularly angered when Jerry says "those people griping about IT don't know anything about basketball." I hope he reads this as Jerry, my man, I am older than you and although not as experienced up close and personal to NBA players, I have a fully functioning brain as do many others and I think we deserve some respect.
I agree and I try to keep away but then .................... my brain goes pfffttt!! and I post anyway. I have "Ignored" 4 people to help the problem and try to respond or co-sign only to somebody who has given careful thought to what he/she is saying.If Jerry or Grant read this, and I think there is long standing evidence that someone in the organization reads this forum, I want to be clear of what my opinions are. I hope they are intelligent. I am particularly angered when Jerry says "those people griping about IT don't know anything about basketball." I hope he reads this as Jerry, my man, I am older than you and although not as experienced up close and personal to NBA players, I have a fully functioning brain as do many others and I think we deserve some respect.