Sacramento: Free agent magnet or hellhole? (split)

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Luckily for the Sacramento area, Padrino and fanop don't speak for the 2.5m+ or the former NBA'ers and MLB'ers that choose to live in the area. Obviously each and everyone of those people could choose to live elsewhere but don't.

I'm going to beg to differ, and say that the fact that there are former NBA players living in the Sacramento era doesn't refute or disprove Padrino's post, on any level. He articulated, quite well, why it might make sense for former players to want to live there, while also pointing out why it wouldn't necessarily be an attractive destination for current NBA players, which are the, really, the only ones we should care about wanting to live there. I mean, it's nice, and all, that retired players might like to settle down in Sacramento, but what good does that do us?

Now, again, winning covers up a lot of pock marks. But we appear to be a long way from that.

There are a ton of things to do in and around Sacramento, not to mention the great non-humid weather.

That may be true, if you have a family; it may be less true if you are a young millionaire/young urban professional. I mean, when someone accuses your city of having "no night life," do you actually have a counter-argument, other than "Does so"? Not trying to pick a fight, it's an honest question: let's say that I'm young and black, with a lot of money (Well... I was young, once...). I like hip-hop and R&B, and I like to party. I've just moved to Sacramento, and I'm driving around downtown, looking for some place to get my party on. I happen to see you standing on the street, while I'm stopped at a traffic light. I roll down the window, and I say*, "Yo, homie, where's the wild out spot?" And your answer is...?



*Disclaimer: I'm almost forty; I have no idea how the kids talk nowadays.

 

[VF21]

I couldn't have said it better

Well, doh.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

He articulated, quite well, why it might make sense for former players to want to live there, while also pointing out why it wouldn't necessarily be an attractive destination for current NBA players

All speculation. If you choose to agree with the speculation, that's up to you.

I roll down the window, and I say*, "Yo, homie, where's the wild out spot?" And your answer is...?

I didn't realize that after hours night clubs was the only attraction to a city. You do realize that a lot of the athletes have families, right? But for those that don't, I could mention Midtown, Historic Old Folsom, Downtown Roseville, and Old Sac. Each of those locations have thriving after hours nightlife. And, within the next few years, K Street will be able to be added to the list too.

Lastly, have you been to Los Lagos or the ritzy parts of Granite Bay, Rocklin, Folsom, El Dorado Hills and Morgan Creek? Lots of young, urban multi-millionaires live in those locations and seem to find it worthwhile.

 

[sdballer]

All speculation. If you choose to agree with the speculation, that's up to you.


I didn't realize that after hours night clubs was the only attraction to a city. You do realize that a lot of the athletes have families, right? But for those that don't, I could mention Midtown, Historic Old Folsom, Downtown Roseville, and Old Sac. Each of those locations have thriving after hours nightlife. And, within the next few years, K Street will be able to be added to the list too.

Lastly, have you been to Los Lagos or the ritzy parts of Granite Bay, Rocklin, Folsom, El Dorado Hills and Morgan Creek? Lots of young, urban multi-millionaires live in those locations and seem to find it worthwhile.

I honestly don't mean this insultingly, but have you lived in other cities than Sacramento?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

All speculation. If you choose to agree with the speculation, that's up to you.

I don't really believe that the claims can be dismissed as "speculation," but YMMV. But yeah, if you get down to it, I guess I do choose to "agree with the speculation." At the very least, I find his argument more convincing than your "nuh-uh" rebuttal.

I didn't realize that after hours night clubs was the only attraction to a city.

They're probably the only attraction to many single twenty-somethings, which accurately describes far more NBA players than it does not, and certainly many more of of the sort of players we should be targeting as free agents. I mean, sure, Mike Miller and Ray Allen and Shane Battier have families, and are less interested in the night life, but are those the guys we should be going after?

You do realize that a lot of the athletes have families, right?

The older ones, sure. The younger ones, the ones we should be targeting? Not nearly as many.

But for those that don't, I could mention Midtown, Historic Old Folsom, Downtown Roseville, and Old Sac. Each of those locations have thriving after hours nightlife. And, within the next few years, K Street will be able to be added to the list too.

Based on your screen name, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're at least my age, if not older. I'm also going to go out an limb and guess that your idea of a fun night on the town is probably a little different from a twenty-five year-old, with no kids. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but I suspect that if your idea of fun at twenty-five would have been going to someplace with the words "Old" and/or "Historic" in the name, that we probably don't have the same idea of "fun."

Lastly, have you been to Los Lagos or the ritzy parts of Granite Bay, Rocklin, Folsom, El Dorado Hills and Morgan Creek? Lots of young, urban multi-millionaires live in those locations and seem to find it worthwhile.

Me personally? No. I've only been to Sacramento once, and I didn't have time to leave town. But, as far as that goes, and I don't want to play the "race card," but roughly what percentage of those young, urban multi-millionaires are black? I mean, you do grok that many young white adults and many young black adults don't necessarily like to go to the same kinds of clubs, right?

 

[Glenn]

I don't really believe that the claims can be dismissed as "speculation," but YMMV. But yeah, if you get down to it, I guess I do choose to "agree with the speculation." At the very least, I find his argument more convincing than your "nuh-uh" rebuttal.


They're probably the only attraction to many single twenty-somethings, which accurately describes far more NBA players than it does not, and certainly many more of of the sort of players we should be targeting as free agents. I mean, sure, Mike Miller and Ray Allen and Shane Battier have families, and are less interested in the night life, but are those the guys we should be going after?

The older ones, sure. The younger ones, the ones we should be targeting? Not nearly as many.

Based on your screen name, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're at least my age, if not older. I'm also going to go out an limb and guess that your idea of a fun night on the town is probably a little different from a twenty-five year-old, with no kids. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but I suspect that if your idea of fun at twenty-five would have been going to someplace with the words "Old" and/or "Historic" in the name, that we probably don't have the same idea of "fun."

Me personally? No. I've only been to Sacramento once, and I didn't have time to leave town. But, as far as that goes, and I don't want to play the "race card," but roughly what percentage of those young, urban multi-millionaires are black? I mean, you do grok that many young white adults and many young black adults don't necessarily like to go to the same kinds of clubs, right?

Fully grokked and as an old white guy, I don't find it very exciting either. I just don't need to get out to enjoy myself. I make my own entertainment.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I don't really believe that the claims can be dismissed as "speculation," but YMMV. But yeah, if you get down to it, I guess I do choose to "agree with the speculation." At the very least, I find his argument more convincing than your "nuh-uh" rebuttal.

I didn't feel a need to propose a counter argument to speculation. What would be the point of that? There is no way to prove or disprove. If you find the heresay and speculation convincing, more power to you. Aside from living in the area for quite some time and having my own opinion, I'll just say, again, that over 2.5+ Million people live in the area, which speaks louder than a handful of squeaky wheels.

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but I suspect that if your idea of fun at twenty-five would have been going to someplace with the words "Old" and/or "Historic" in the name, that we probably don't have the same idea of "fun."

Not cynical, just uninformed. You're making an judgement based off a name and the fact that you have no knowledge of these places. If you didn't know anything about San Diego (where I have also lived), would 'Gas Lamp District' sound appealing to you? But that's certainly one of the hot spots in town.

In Sacramento, most of the 20 and 30 something's hang out at the locations I named. Midtown has some trendy, hipster clubs and restaurants. Historic Folsom on Sutter Street is an outdoor strip of restaurants night clubs overlooking the American River and is a very popular hangout (in fact, the locals have been trying to get stricter ordinances put in place due to the increase in popularity, noise, disturbances, etc.). Downtown Roseville has become extremely popular in the past 5 years as all of the clubs are in close proximity and within walking distance. And Old Sac has always drawn the younger crowd with it's proximity to downtown, the river and it's mix of nightclubs and restaurants.

When I was hanging out a lot more than I do know, you'd find all of the Kings players and the visiting players hanging out at a club called Gators at a place known as "Sacramento Live", which was located where the K Street Mall sits now and where the Arena will soon be located. It was a gigantic indoor collection of bars, clubs and restaurants and was the place to go in the 90's. Now, the places to go are primarily the ones I've listed and they are quite spreadout. If you're 21 to 35, regardless of race, those are the places to be.

Me personally? No. I've only been to Sacramento once

With due respect, based upon the above answer, you aren't qualified to really participate in the discussion because you have no frame of reference. Visiting a place once, probably never venturing very far around the area (Sacramento metro is VERY spread out), never having lived in the area and not knowing too much about it (refer to the response above this one as further evidence) demonstrates as much. No disrespect, Slim, as I know you to be quite an intelligent and reasonable guy, but you're a bit off on this one.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I didn't feel a need to propose a counter argument to speculation. What would be the point of that? There is no way to prove or disprove. If you find the heresay and speculation convincing, more power to you. Aside from living in the area for quite some time and having my own opinion, I'll just say, again, that over 2.5+ Million people live in the area, which speaks louder than a handful of squeaky wheels.

I wouldn't call it speculation at all, so much as an evaluation that you disagree with. I don't have to live in Sacramento to know that it's the capital of California: it's not speculation to call it a "government town." Not only is it not speculation to say that people aren't spending money in town, it's probably not even that hard to verify, but I'll admit that my Google-Fu is weak. How is it "speculation" to say that the freeway systems are poorly designed, or that the roads are poorly maintained? How is it "speculation" to call the public transportation a "bad joke"? What did Padrino say that can't either be proved or disproved?

In Sacramento, most of the 20 and 30 something's hang out at the locations I named. Midtown has some trendy, hipster clubs and restaurants. Historic Folsom on Sutter Street is an outdoor strip of restaurants night clubs overlooking the American River and is a very popular hangout (in fact, the locals have been trying to get stricter ordinances put in place due to the increase in popularity, noise, disturbances, etc.). Downtown Roseville has become extremely popular in the past 5 years as all of the clubs are in close proximity and within walking distance. And Old Sac has always drawn the younger crowd with it's proximity to downtown, the river and it's mix of nightclubs and restaurants.

I'm going to take a chance that I may possibly know more young African-Americans than you do: how many young Blacks do you think hang out at "hipster" clubs? I wonder whether there may be a disconnect regarding our sense of what kind of clubs would be attractive to the sort of free agents we should be wanting to come to Sacramento?

With due respect, based upon the above answer, you aren't qualified to really participate in the discussion because you have no frame of reference.

You're right. I don't. But, it appears that Padrino does and, as I said before, I find myself inclined to take his word for it over yours, with all due respect.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

How is it "speculation" to say that the freeway systems are poorly designed, or that the roads are poorly maintained? How is it "speculation" to call the public transportation a "bad joke"? What did Padrino say that can't either be proved or disproved?

All of it. I really can't believe that this has to be addressed. Padrino can give his opinion as to what he thinks is wrong with the world and why he believes a free agent or any person for that matter wouldn't want to come here, but it's still purely speculation. Nothing more. Has there been some sort of official poll conducted among all professional athletes stating otherwise? You can choose to buy in to what he's selling simply because you like the way he laid it out, but that doesn't at all make it truth. Again, he's speculating based upon his own biased opinion.

Having conveyed all that, I will say that I fully agree about the freeway systems and public transportation. But it doesn't make me want to leave the area nor would it lead me to speculate that it's a reason that a young rich person wouldn't want to come here. Even if it did, it'd still just be speculation, which was the entire point

I'm going to take a chance that I may possibly know more young African-Americans than you do: how many young Blacks do you think hang out at "hipster" clubs? I wonder whether there may be a disconnect regarding our sense of what kind of clubs would be attractive to the sort of free agents we should be wanting to come to Sacramento?

If your ethnicity is anything other than African American, then you've made a bad assumption. Secondly, I never made any reference whatsoever about young African Americans hanging out at a hipster club. I simply provided you with a list of several hotspots the young crowd frequents around town. Not all of them are hipster destinations. I only mentioned one, which you, for some reason, chose to fixate on. FWIW,I've been to each of those locales and there are a ton of young Blacks (as you put it) that frequent them. Lots of other ethnicities too. I don't know if you are aware of this, but, several years back, Sacramento made Time magazines list of most ethnically diverse cities in the US. I believe it was #1 at the time.

You're right. I don't. But, it appears that Padrino does and, as I said before, I find myself inclined to take his word for it over yours, with all due respect.

Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Regardless of whose word you wish to take over the other, you're doing so without knowing anything about either person's background or knowledge of the area. Doesn't seem like the best way to come to any conclusions. In closing, I'll make the same type of bold assumption that you have done several times already and state that Padrino doesn't know the area as well as I do nor has he painted the town as a youngster as I did for so many years and still do from time to time.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

All of it. I really can't believe that this has to be addressed. Padrino can give his opinion as to what he thinks is wrong with the world and why he believes a free agent or ay person for that matter wouldn't want to come here, but it's still purely speculation. Nothing more. Has there been some sort of official poll conducted among all professional athletes stating otherwise? You can choose to buy in to what he's selling simply because you like the way he laid it out, but that doesn't at all make it truth. Again, he's speculating based upon his own biased opinion.

Having conveyed all that, I will say that I fully agree about the freeway systems and public transportation. But it doesn't make me want to leave the area nor would it lead me to speculate that it's a reason that a young rich person wouldn't want to come here. Even if it did, it'd still just be speculation, which was the entire point

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

If your ethnicity is anything other than African American, then you've made a bad assumption.

Well then... at least I've got that going for me.

Secondly, I never made any reference whatsoever about young African Americans hanging out at a hipster club.

Well, maybe not specifically, but:

I simply provided you with a list of several hotspots the young crowd frequents around town.

... leads me to wonder if we have different working definitions of "hot spots."

Not all of them are hipster destinations. I only mentioned one, which you, for some reason, chose to fixate on.

If you want to get pedantic about it, you didn't actually mention any. But, if the roles were reversed, and I was trying to describe my city's "trendy" night life to an outsider, I wouldn't even include the word "hipster" in any part of the description, even if it only applied to one club, out of a dozen.

FWIW,I've been to each of those locales and there are a ton of young Blacks (as you put it) that frequent them. Lots of other ethnicities too.

A ton? Lots? The Census data for Sacramento county would appear to suggest that the veracity of that claim is somewhat dubious.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but, several years back, Sacramento made Time magazines list of most ethnically diverse cities in the US. I believe it was #1 at the time.

How many years ago was this?

Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Regardless of whose word you wish to take over the other, you're doing so without knowing anything about either person's background or knowledge of the area. Doesn't seem like the best way to come to any conclusions. In closing, I'll make the same type of bold assumption that you have done several times already and state that Padrino doesn't know the area as well as I do nor has he painted the town as a youngster as I did for so many years and still do from time to time.

That's probably something that only he can speak to, but I'm betting that, whether or not he has "painted the town" as much as you have, youth is closer to current in his living memory than yours, so he's probably more qualified to speak on the subject of what's "cool" to young people than either one of us.

 

[Padrino]

All of it. I really can't believe that this has to be addressed. Padrino can give his opinion as to what he thinks is wrong with the world and why he believes a free agent or ay person for that matter wouldn't want to come here, but it's still purely speculation. Nothing more. Has there been some sort of official poll conducted among all professional athletes stating otherwise? You can choose to buy in to what he's selling simply because you like the way he laid it out, but that doesn't at all make it truth. Again, he's speculating based upon his own biased opinion.

Having conveyed all that, I will say that I fully agree about the freeway systems and public transportation. But it doesn't make me want to leave the area nor would it lead me to speculate that it's a reason that a young rich person wouldn't want to come here. Even if it did, it'd still just be speculation, which was the entire point


If your ethnicity is anything other than African American, then you've made a bad assumption. Secondly, I never made any reference whatsoever about young African Americans hanging out at a hipster club. I simply provided you with a list of several hotspots the young crowd frequents around town. Not all of them are hipster destinations. I only mentioned one, which you, for some reason, chose to fixate on. FWIW,I've been to each of those locales and there are a ton of young Blacks (as you put it) that frequent them. Lots of other ethnicities too. I don't know if you are aware of this, but, several years back, Sacramento made Time magazines list of most ethnically diverse cities in the US. I believe it was #1 at the time.



Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Regardless of whose word you wish to take over the other, you're doing so without knowing anything about either person's background or knowledge of the area. Doesn't seem like the best way to come to any conclusions. In closing, I'll make the same type of bold assumption that you have done several times already and state that Padrino doesn't know the area as well as I do nor has he painted the town as a youngster as I did for so many years and still do from time to time.

Forbes ranks Sacramento as fifth most miserable city in America:

Forbes looks at the 200 largest metropolitan areas in the country and makes up its list based on 10 factors, including crime, unemployment, foreclosures, taxes, home price declines, commute times and the success of its sports teams.

Forbes noted that Sacramento is a one-team town and that team, the Kings, have been awful the last several seasons. It has also been hit hard by foreclosures, declining home prices and unemployment.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012...ramento-fifth-most-miserable-city-in-america/

it's not just me. sacramento is not much of a modern city. its downtown area is deeply lacking. its streets are not clean. its skyline is boring. its architecture is mostly unimaginative. its night life is sparse and dreadfully mediocre (as a 26-year-old living near midtown, i can speak on this subject with authority). its largely bereft of a thriving artistic community (as a performance poet constantly between venues, i can speak on this subject with authority). its music scene is dried up. i could go on and on. this does not mean that you or others cannot enjoy living in sacramento. but it takes some serious cognitive dissonance to believe that young professional athletes are going to look favorably upon sacramento as outsiders...

 

[VF21]

Some like Sacramento, others don't. It doesn't make anyone wrong OR RIGHT. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

I know a lot of people who love Chico and think it's incredible. I think it's a waste, a college town way too full of itself, etc.

Just sayin'...

 

[KingsFanSince85]

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inconceivable!

How many years ago was this?

11 years ago. Welcome to America's Most Diverse City

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Forbes ranks Sacramento as fifth most miserable city in America:

And they rank Miami #1. They don't seem to have issues attracting free agents. If you read the criteria of how the list is determined, most of it would have little to no effect on a wealthy person. Furthermore, that list drastically changes every year based upon a myriad of factors. For example, Stockton had been ranked #1 on multiple occasions but isn't even in the top 10 in the current list. Despite that, How many people do you know that would rather live in Stockton than Sacramento? LA and SF often get ranked on that list. Again, it doesn't seem to keep people away from those areas.

it's not just me. sacramento is not much of a modern city. its downtown area is deeply lacking. its streets are not clean. its skyline is boring. its architecture is mostly unimaginative. its night life is sparse and dreadfully mediocre (as a 26-year-old living near midtown, i can speak on this subject with authority). its largely bereft of a thriving artistic community (as a performance poet constantly between venues, i can speak on this subject with authority). its music scene is dried up. i could go on and on. this does not mean that you or others cannot enjoy living in sacramento. but it takes some serious cognitive dissonance to believe that young professional athletes are going to look favorably upon sacramento as outsiders...

My first question is, what are you still doing here if you find it so unappealing? Secondly, do you ever venture out of midtown for nightlife (which I'm not fond of either)? There are lots of hotspots in Folsom, Roseville, Old Sac, and even West Sac is up and coming. I'll defer to your opinion on the artistic community thing as it's not at all an interest of mine. The music scene has seen a resurgence in recent years, but I suppose that depends upon what you're into. Lots of good blues, jazz and rock acts/venues can be found if you know the scene.

 

[Warhawk]

Some like Sacramento, others don't. It doesn't make anyone wrong OR RIGHT. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

I know a lot of people who love Chico and think it's incredible. I think it's a waste, a college town way too full of itself, etc.

Just sayin'...

I loved Chico when I went to college there back in the early '90's. Too hot in the summer, otherwise quite nice. Bicycle friendly (took daily rides through Bidwell), nice folks, small town, and all that. I never got the feeling that it was "way too full of itself" but then again I never really thought much about it.

And I don't drink. I am not sure why CSUC let me in. Must have been a quota or something.

 

[PurpleHaze]

While Sacramento is rated 5th most miserable place in USA (and deserved IMO), nearby Folsom was just rated 2nd best place in California to raise a family. Clovis near Fresno was rated #1 in the state. Anyone who has been to Fresno (only little better than Stockton!) knows it's crime ridden, ugly, depressed, boring place - some referring to it as Sacramento without rivers. But Clovis is quite nice, just like Folsom. So most likely particular family oriented NBA free agent might like Kings, as long as didn't reside in Sacramento city or Sacramento county. Heck, even Ron Artest found Loomis in Placer County to his liking with big home on some acres during his stormy stint with Kings.

 

[swisshh]

Winning/Professionalism doesn't count as much as you would hope. Free Agents continually go to the Hawks despite that franchise never winning anything of note and having terrible fan support.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Once that new Arena gets rocking (Day 1), and we've got a roster rebuilt, we will again be in the spotlight, on national TV all the time, and yes...players will want to come here

 

[PurpleHaze]

Winning/Professionalism doesn't count as much as you would hope. Free Agents continually go to the Hawks despite that franchise never winning anything of note and having terrible fan support.

Years ago Robert Reid told me when I asked him what his favorite NBA city was for nightlife said Atlanta. He played his career mostly in Houston and shorter time in Charlotte. When I asked him why he said, great nightlife, friendly hot black chicks, and good soul food. I believe Chris Webber now lives just outside of Atlanta.

 

[Padrino]

My first question is, what are you still doing here if you find it so unappealing? Secondly, do you ever venture out of midtown for nightlife (which I'm not fond of either)? There are lots of hotspots in Folsom, Roseville, Old Sac, and even West Sac is up and coming. I'll defer to your opinion on the artistic community thing as it's not at all an interest of mine. The music scene has seen a resurgence in recent years, but I suppose that depends upon what you're into. Lots of good blues, jazz and rock acts/venues can be found if you know the scene.

well, believe it or not, we don't all get to live where we want to live; we live where we're able to find work...

my wife and i are in our mid-20's, and the economic downturn hasn't been friendly to recent graduates with miles of student loan debt. she was able to get a job working for the state, and i work for the community college districts in the area. we just finally got our own place a little over a year ago. we're renting, but it's not cheap to live in a relatively safe neighborhood. we'll be leaving CA altogether once we've saved enough to make such a move, and once either she or i have a job secured on the other side of that move. it'll be a few years, but we're shooting for the pacific northwest, either portland or seattle, cities and climates more suited to our lifestyles. we're not fond of the hot summers in sacramento, and we're not fond of the fact that winter rain is so scarce these days...

and i love the train museum in old sac, but it's a once-a-year trip, at most. the rio city cafe is great. what other "hotspots" in this area are you referring to, exactly? it's a historic district, unfortunately laden with homeless, and hardly a beacon of life after dark. like many places in sacramento, it's quiet after 9:00pm. as for folsom and roseville, they're both a half hour away on the weekends, and forty-five minutes to an hour away in the evening traffic during the week. more to the point, my wife and i don't like driving everywhere. it's expensive to do so, and we're not exactly flush with cash, so we prefer to ride our bikes or take public transportation...

but sacramento is not a bike-friendly city, nor does it provide much in the way of convenient, clean, or safe public transportation. it's why portland is at the top of our list as an eventual destination. it's an extremely bike-friendly city with several great public transit systems. what we value, as a young married couple, is a city center that provides [non-government] jobs and cultural value. we want to feel comfortable taking public transportation to work and biking to our favorite spots. we don't necessarily want to have to venture out into the sprawl to engage with our hometown. hopefully the arena project will resuscitate sacramento's downtown culture, but we'll likely have left by the time it yields significant results...

anyway, as VF said, different strokes. i don't begrudge those sacramentans who truly enjoy living in the area. good for them. i'm just not among them, nor am i shy about voicing the problems i have with the city itself. and i think that nba players entering free agency--while certainly different than my wife and i in the make-up of their own value systems--don't see sacramento as a viable destination because of what it lacks, rather than what it has. i still believe that a losing franchise in a relatively undesirable small market is going to have considerable difficulty attracting those free agents. once a player is here, they sometimes forge a bond with the city and its fans. its really nice when that happens. but those players are usually acquired via the draft or via trade. it's rare that free agents of note willingly arrive in sacramento with a wink and a smile, and there's a reason for that across the nearly 30 years that the kings have played here...

 

[PurpleHaze]

Padrino - Not to mention living in Oregon means you'll be paying zero sales tax unlike current outrageous 8.50% in city of Sacramento or 8.00% in county of Sacramento. Beside that plus all the other very high taxes in California, among highest state personal income tax, highest gas tax, highest corporate tax rate, property taxes still high (per capita 15th highest) due to average home values and despite Prop. 13. My recently graduated from Chico State nephew is strongly considering moving to an area along border of Oregon-Washington. He likes to fish and hunt is one reason but not main one. He would look to live in Washington because of its no state income tax (one of six such states) but do lot of shopping in Oregon because of no sales tax (one of five such states). BTW, my nephew doesn't mind paying his fair share of taxes - but the key word is fair.

 

[bajaden]

Sacramento, the city itself will not attract many FAs.. many NBA players. It's a great city like many other cities for raising kids and starting families..but attracting basketball players to come? Not so much. Sacramento has a population of around 475,000. What is there really to do in Sacramento that will attract FA? Maybe the small sand area in Sacramento river or driving 30-40 miles to Folsom lake. Wine tasting 30 miles away? These places aren't too far of a drive, but it's not Sacramento. Sac is a great city no doubt, but there just isn't anything that pops out from any other city.

That's a huge IF. I love Vivek's vision of NBA 3.0.

I think as a small market team, it should be expected that we won't be the ideal destination of many players, but that doesn't mean they won't decide to come here.

You have the problem of lumping all players into one bucket. I will agree that Sacramento probably isn't for everyone, but there are players that love the city. I came from a big city in St. Louis, along with spending a fair amount of time in Chicago when my sister moved there. I fell in love with Sacramento, exactly because it wasn't St. Louis or Chicago. I grew up in a suburb of St. Louis named Wellston. If it sounds familiar, its because that's where McLemore comes from. Our house was just a few blocks from where he lived. I can assure that Sacramento probably looks like heaven to McLemore. The big city isn't bells and whistles to everyone. You talk about Sacramento being a great town for families. What? You think all NBA players are single and out on the town every night. You don't think some of them, if not most of them don't have families?

Sacramento is one of the few places in the world where you can ski on saturday, dine on Nob hill on saturday night, and play golf on sunday. Try that in Chicago! What matters to free agents, is first, money, second, a team that's capable of being a contender, and third, a solid organization that's dedicated to winning. Somewhere after those requirements, comes which restaurant serves something close to your cultural food. Can we compete with LA or New York? Sure, if the competition is simply about winning or organization. But if the player is all about the limelight and rubbing elbows with the stars, then no. But I think you'd find that most NBA players are just like us. Individuals, each with his own personal lifestyle and tastes. As stated in the movie, "Build it and they will come".

 

[Glenn]

Over the years I have been very clear that I don't like Sacramento at all except for the Kings. I moved here because my best friend lived here and could help set me up in business. It's too hot, too dry, the people are insulated from each other, etc. I don't want to party, etc. so that's not important. Most important to me is to be around my friends, most of whom live in the Midwest and are still my friends of 50 years. I gave them up to live here because my kids live here. I am in close contact with most of the people that are important to me and with the internet, have reunited with many that I have known over the years.

I live in solitude so the city is unimportant as you may have guessed. I would not mind going back to the Midwest but that can't happen. It's home. Sacramento is not.

BTW, my friend (see above) moved back to Minneapolis several years ago. Minneapolis was once rated #1 by Rand McNally and Rochester, MN, very close to my home town, was also rated #1.; That's despite the cold which is not a plus.




Edit: I now have the best of two worlds. I live in an area where I won't break a hip on the ice yet with the internet, my buddies from high school are a keyboard away, even the one who moved to Australia. My brothers and sisters are close in the same way.

 

[Padrino]

You have the problem of lumping all players into one bucket. I will agree that Sacramento probably isn't for everyone, but there are players that love the city. I came from a big city in St. Louis, along with spending a fair amount of time in Chicago when my sister moved there. I fell in love with Sacramento, exactly because it wasn't St. Louis or Chicago. I grew up in a suburb of St. Louis named Wellston. If it sounds familiar, its because that's where McLemore comes from. Our house was just a few blocks from where he lived. I can assure that Sacramento probably looks like heaven to McLemore. The big city isn't bells and whistles to everyone. You talk about Sacramento being a great town for families. What? You think all NBA players are single and out on the town every night. You don't think some of them, if not most of them don't have families?

Sacramento is one of the few places in the world where you can ski on saturday, dine on Nob hill on saturday night, and play golf on sunday. Try that in Chicago! What matters to free agents, is first, money, second, a team that's capable of being a contender, and third, a solid organization that's dedicated to winning. Somewhere after those requirements, comes which restaurant serves something close to your cultural food. Can we compete with LA or New York? Sure, if the competition is simply about winning or organization. But if the player is all about the limelight and rubbing elbows with the stars, then no. But I think you'd find that most NBA players are just like us. Individuals, each with his own personal lifestyle and tastes. As stated in the movie, "Build it and they will come".

somewhere in that list is also the term "brand." a great many of the nba's elite are as invested in their "brand" as they are in winning. this is a byproduct of david stern's work towards making the nba about individual superstars rather than collective teams. a younger generation of nba talent doesn't necessarily view the league in the same way that lifers like tim duncan do...

kyrie irving may be attempting damage control in cleveland right now, but don't you think he's wondering about how much farther he could stretch his uncle drew persona in a larger market? there's a reason that so many top tier free agents always rattle off new york, LA, chicago, etc. on their destination short lists. the advertising dollars are in those big cities. if you want to be the face of gatorade or the feet of adidas, you don't come to sacramento to do it...

again, if we're talking about mid-level and low-level veterans, then sure, the kings can sign the carl landry's of the league by the fistful. but if we're talking about the cream of the free agent crop, then sacramento will always be at a disadvantage of bargaining position, just like cleveland, minnesota, charlotte, etc. you're certainly right, though, about the kings needing to build a winning culture. you accomplish that with your draft picks and trade acquisitions, and then you're more able to draw in the kinds of free agents that can help to get this team over the hump...

 

[whozit]

... It's too hot, too dry,


...

One thing I miss about Sac is the dry heat. 100 degrees out there is a whole heck of a lot more tolerable than the 80 degree sticky humid muck where I live now. The climate out there is great for allergies, like not having them as bad. However, I love the fact that I have space all around .....................

 

[bajaden]

somewhere in that list is also the term "brand." a great many of the nba's elite are as invested in their "brand" as they are in winning. this is a byproduct of david stern's work towards making the nba about individual superstars rather than collective teams. a younger generation of nba talent doesn't necessarily view the league in the same way that lifers like tim duncan do...

kyrie irving may be attempting damage control in cleveland right now, but don't you think he's wondering about how much farther he could stretch his uncle drew persona in a larger market? there's a reason that so many top tier free agents always rattle off new york, LA, chicago, etc. on their destination short lists. the advertising dollars are in those big cities. if you want to be the face of gatorade or the feet of adidas, you don't come to sacramento to do it...

again, if we're talking about mid-level and low-level veterans, then sure, the kings can sign the carl landry's of the league by the fistful. but if we're talking about the cream of the free agent crop, then sacramento will always be at a disadvantage of bargaining position, just like cleveland, minnesota, charlotte, etc. you're certainly right, though, about the kings needing to build a winning culture. you accomplish that with your draft picks and trade acquisitions, and then you're more able to draw in the kinds of free agents that can help to get this team over the hump...

I don't think we disagree much. As I said, it usually comes down to the individual and what he's looking for. Cousins is a prime example of that. Small town guy from the south. So Sacramento appeals to him. If you grow up in the Chicago area, and you love what the big city provides, then you'll likely be attracted to something similar. Growing up in the big city can work against one's love for the big city as well. I can't speak to what Irving is looking for, and I really doubt that the pundits can either. I do agree that he's probably fed up with his current team, and in kind, the organization. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's looking to move to the big city. It might mean he wants to move to a team that seems to have some direction.

Where the big cities have always had the advantage, is in the money area. When a team like the Lakers is able to sign a TV contract worth a billion dollars, it gives them the ability to over spend for players. Or at least it used to! The new CBA makes it more prohibitive, but not impossible. However, spending a lot of money doesn't always mean winning a championship. Unlike you, I love sacramento, and that confirms what I've been saying. It comes down to the individual and his desires.

 

[Sluggah]

The only way Granite Bay gets any whiter is if Bobby Jackson and his family moves away.

They should have let Chris Webber build his helipad.

 

[LPKingsFan]

somewhere in that list is also the term "brand." a great many of the nba's elite are as invested in their "brand" as they are in winning. this is a byproduct of david stern's work towards making the nba about individual superstars rather than collective teams. a younger generation of nba talent doesn't necessarily view the league in the same way that lifers like tim duncan do...

kyrie irving may be attempting damage control in cleveland right now, but don't you think he's wondering about how much farther he could stretch his uncle drew persona in a larger market? there's a reason that so many top tier free agents always rattle off new york, LA, chicago, etc. on their destination short lists. the advertising dollars are in those big cities. if you want to be the face of gatorade or the feet of adidas, you don't come to sacramento to do it...

again, if we're talking about mid-level and low-level veterans, then sure, the kings can sign the carl landry's of the league by the fistful. but if we're talking about the cream of the free agent crop, then sacramento will always be at a disadvantage of bargaining position, just like cleveland, minnesota, charlotte, etc. you're certainly right, though, about the kings needing to build a winning culture. you accomplish that with your draft picks and trade acquisitions, and then you're more able to draw in the kinds of free agents that can help to get this team over the hump...

The elite superstars rarely change teams via free agency. Of course, when they do, they tend to look mostly toward NY, LA, and Chicago. That's fine. Not much we can do about it, but at least we're on the same page as the great majority of other teams in the league on that front.

What we can do is improve the other factors baja mentioned above: organizational stability, winning culture, and, of course, facilities and amenities. I'm sure other players aren't enamored with the idea of playing with the Kings from having played in Arco, suffered through the cramped locker room facilities, and heard from former King teammates about how poorly managed the organization was. With the new ownership, front office, and arena, however, all that looks to be changing for the better.

I don't expect this team ever to be in the running for the LeBrons and Carmelos in free agency. What I do believe is that with the improvements mentioned above, we should definitely be on the radar of the type players who have passed us by recently (the Iguodalas, and at the very least the Calderons). Not superstars, but still difference makers, especially if you're building around an already existing Cousins-Gay core.

 

[fanop]

I don't think we disagree much. As I said, it usually comes down to the individual and what he's looking for. Cousins is a prime example of that. Small town guy from the south. So Sacramento appeals to him. If you grow up in the Chicago area, and you love what the big city provides, then you'll likely be attracted to something similar. Growing up in the big city can work against one's love for the big city as well. I can't speak to what Irving is looking for, and I really doubt that the pundits can either. I do agree that he's probably fed up with his current team, and in kind, the organization. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's looking to move to the big city. It might mean he wants to move to a team that seems to have some direction.

Where the big cities have always had the advantage, is in the money area. When a team like the Lakers is able to sign a TV contract worth a billion dollars, it gives them the ability to over spend for players. Or at least it used to! The new CBA makes it more prohibitive, but not impossible. However, spending a lot of money doesn't always mean winning a championship. Unlike you, I love sacramento, and that confirms what I've been saying. It comes down to the individual and his desires.

Mobile isn't a small town.... Mobile has a party college called University of South Alabama where all the college kids party and there's many things to do around there. They also beaches that are similar to the beaches in Miami. Mobile has a very rich history, but today it's nowhere near a small town it once was if it ever was. Mobile has a population of 194k while the Birmingham has 212k and Montgomery has 205k. Those are the biggest cities in Alabama. Alabama doesn't have a huge population, but Mobile is definitely one of the bigger cities. Mobile is also a tourist destination of Alabama. Myself, I love Sacramento...but it's just not an ideal location for athletes who want to live the "high life".

 

[bajaden]

Mobile isn't a small town.... Mobile has a party college called University of South Alabama where all the college kids party and there's many things to do around there. They also beaches that are similar to the beaches in Miami. Mobile has a very rich history, but today it's nowhere near a small town it once was if it ever was. Mobile has a population of 194k while the Birmingham has 212k and Montgomery has 205k. Those are the biggest cities in Alabama. Alabama doesn't have a huge population, but Mobile is definitely one of the bigger cities. Mobile is also a tourist destination of Alabama. Myself, I love Sacramento...but it's just not an ideal location for athletes who want to live the "high life".

Mi amigo, I've been to Mobile! It's not Chicago, LA, or New York. OK! That's what I was implying. Its smaller than Sacramento, thus, Sacramento is appealing to Cousins, which he has said. Chico is a party town, but its still a small town. OK? As I said, its an individual choice.