Who Would Come After Thomas?

[twslam07]

Many debates on this forum have centered around will we/should we keep Thomas this Summer. I decided to go ahead and look at the rest of the teams in the league to determine who the threats may be.

First we will start off by eliminating teams based on cap space and fit. The first list below includes all the teams that would not have cap space to sign Thomas this offseason. (I also included teams that only have approximately $5 mil of cap space as I think most would be willing to match a $5 mil a year deal similar to Jamal Crawford’s deal.)

Teams That Don’t Have Cap Space
1. Brooklyn
2. Chicago
3. Denver
4. Houston
5. Indiana
6. Los Angeles Clippers
7. Memphis
8. Miami
9. Minnesota
10. New York
11. Oklahoma City
12. Portland

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a plethora of solid guards.

Teams w/ Solid PG Depth
13. Atlanta – Teague, L. Williams, & Schroeder
14. Cleveland – Irving & Jack
15. New Orleans – Holiday, Evans, Rivers, & Roberts
16. Philadelphia – Carter-Williams & Wroten
17. Phoenix – Dragic & Bledsoe (RFA, but given every indication that they won’t let him go)
18. Milwaukee – Knight, Wolters, Mayo, & Neal (all signed through 2015 – would create log jam)
19. Washington – Wall & Maynor

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a PG who demands big minutes and cannot slide over to play SG while Thomas plays PG.

Teams w/ Good PGs Who Can’t Slide Over to Play SG
20. Boston – Rondo (Latest reports are that they plan on keeping him)
21. Charlotte – Walker
22. Detroit – Jennings
23. Golden State – Curry
24. San Antonio – Parker
25. Utah – Burke

That leaves us with 4 teams that could possibly go after Thomas this offseason.

Teams That Could Possibly Come After Thomas
1. Dallas
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Orlando
4. Toronto

Situation in Dallas
With an aging Nowitzki and considering they are only in seventh in the West, they have some rebuilding to do. Next year, they will only have Ellis, Calderon, Wright, Ellington, Larkin, Ledo, and Mekel on the books. With roughly $36 mil in cap space, they have some room to do some damage.

With the need to fill their starting spots at SF, PF, and C, they might not have much more cap space to make an offer for Thomas. Also, Ellis will be making close to 9 mil next year and Calderon will be making close to 7 mil next year. Would they really want to offer Thomas a contract that is on par with those two contracts, or would it be more in line with a $5 mil a year contract that we would match? They would have a lot of money locked into short guards who need the ball in their hands and struggle defensively. I was very close to including this team as a “bad fit” team, but decided not to.

Ultimately, I don’t think it would be in Dallas best interest to offer Thomas a contract we wouldn’t match. If anything, I would look for a very good defensive SG who can push Ellis to the bench, but that’s just me.

Threat Level: Weak

Situation in Los Angeles
The Lakers will have roughly 27 mil in cap space next summer. With only 4 players on the books they have a lot of different ways they can build their roster. Right now they have Bryant and Nash on the books. A Nash – Bryant combo can work in the starting lineup. Bryant is a ball dominant guard and Nash has deffered to some ballhandling duties, running the offense, and knocking down open threes. He’s not nearly as ball dominant as he was in his golden years.

With that in mind, Thomas could be a great sixth man off the bench for them. Considering how old Nash is getting, they might only have him log 20-25 minutes a night which will give Thomas plenty of minutes at PG. After Nash expires the following season, they could consider playing Thomas with Bryant in the starting lineup, but I still don’t like that fit for them. They’ll probably acquire a Chalmers type PG to play next to Bryant and have Thomas continue to come off the bench. The fact that Thomas would have to come off the bench can’t be ignored as that is probably not as attractive to Thomas.

Threat Level: Moderate

Situation in Orlando
All of Orlando’s PGs could be gone next season. Nelson has a team option, Moore has a qualifying offer, and Price’s contract will expire. They could end up with no PGs and a whole lot of cap space. At SG they have Oladipo, Afflalo, and Lamb. They have been playing Afflalo out of position at SF, but I think a three guard rotation of Thomas, Afflalo, and Oladipo would work well. Both Thomas and Afflalo are 20 point scorers so Afflalo might have to continue playing SF or come off the bench.. Considering they have been trying to move Afflalo, I don’t think they are too worried with signing players that complement his abilities. I think they are more inclined to sign someone who complements Oladipo’s abilities. Oladipo’s defense, unselfishness, and all-around play (some might say Iguodala-lite) would be a very good compliment to Thomas’ scoring ability and lack of defense.

It’s possible that Orlando could see him as their long term PG next to Oladipo and that is cause for concern.

Threat Level: Strong

Situation in Toronto
All three of Toronto’s PGs could be free agents next year (Lowry, Vazquez, Augustin), and they could have roughly 20 mil in cap space if they don’t pick up team options on Salmons and A. Johnson.

Right now, they have committed to DeRozan being their SG of the future. He is another ball dominant SG that would flourish with a PG who can handle some of the ball handling duties, but that can also play off the ball. Thomas doesn't flourish in that role, so he would have to come off the bench for them.

This team is far from competing for a championship (much different than competing in the East). Does it make sense for them to bring in a sixth man in while they have mediocrity at all other positions besides SG? You need to have your core players in place before you start bringing in luxuries such as a sixth man.

He could potentially be a good fit as a sixth man, but that means Thomas would have to come off the bench. Would they offer a sixth man much more than $5 mil, or do they plan on running with two 20 PPG players in their starting backcourt? Toronto has been a mess of a franchise so I can see them envisioning Thomas as their PG of the future. However, I would argue against it.

Threat Level: Moderate

 

[Gary]

I was thinking he would either end up in Los Angeles or Orlando a week or two ago if the Kings didn't want to retain him. I can't see the Kings letting him go though anytime soon. I think we re-sign him at about 6-7mil per year at maybe 5 years (33mil or there about) with the 4th and 5th years as team options. Regardless of how bad he is on defense, the kid can score and he can create for himself and others.

 

[VF21]

Many debates on this forum have centered around will we/should we keep Thomas this Summer. I decided to go ahead and look at the rest of the teams in the league to determine who the threats may be.

First we will start off by eliminating teams based on cap space and fit. The first list below includes all the teams that would not have cap space to sign Thomas this offseason. (I also included teams that only have approximately $5 mil of cap space as I think most would be willing to match a $5 mil a year deal similar to Jamal Crawford’s deal.)

Teams That Don’t Have Cap Space
1. Brooklyn
2. Chicago
3. Denver
4. Houston
5. Indiana
6. Los Angeles Clippers
7. Memphis
8. Miami
9. Minnesota
10. New York
11. Oklahoma City
12. Portland

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a plethora of solid guards.

Teams w/ Solid PG Depth
13. Atlanta – Teague, L. Williams, & Schroeder
14. Cleveland – Irving & Jack
15. New Orleans – Holiday, Evans, Rivers, & Roberts
16. Philadelphia – Carter-Williams & Wroten
17. Phoenix – Dragic & Bledsoe (RFA, but given every indication that they won’t let him go)
18. Milwaukee – Knight, Wolters, Mayo, & Neal (all signed through 2015 – would create log jam)
19. Washington – Wall & Maynor

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a PG who demands big minutes and cannot slide over to play SG while Thomas plays PG.

Teams w/ Good PGs Who Can’t Slide Over to Play SG
20. Boston – Rondo (Latest reports are that they plan on keeping him)
21. Charlotte – Walker
22. Detroit – Jennings
23. Golden State – Curry
24. San Antonio – Parker
25. Utah – Burke

That leaves us with 4 teams that could possibly go after Thomas this offseason.

Teams That Could Possibly Come After Thomas
1. Dallas
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Orlando
4. Toronto

Situation in Dallas
With an aging Nowitzki and considering they are only in seventh in the West, they have some rebuilding to do. Next year, they will only have Ellis, Calderon, Wright, Ellington, Larkin, Ledo, and Mekel on the books. With roughly $36 mil in cap space, they have some room to do some damage.

With the need to fill their starting spots at SF, PF, and C, they might not have much more cap space to make an offer for Thomas. Also, Ellis will be making close to 9 mil next year and Calderon will be making close to 7 mil next year. Would they really want to offer Thomas a contract that is on par with those two contracts, or would it be more in line with a $5 mil a year contract that we would match? They would have a lot of money locked into short guards who need the ball in their hands and struggle defensively. I was very close to including this team as a “bad fit” team, but decided not to.

Ultimately, I don’t think it would be in Dallas best interest to offer Thomas a contract we wouldn’t match. If anything, I would look for a very good defensive SG who can push Ellis to the bench, but that’s just me.

Threat Level: Weak

Situation in Los Angeles
The Lakers will have roughly 27 mil in cap space next summer. With only 4 players on the books they have a lot of different ways they can build their roster. Right now they have Bryant and Nash on the books. A Nash – Bryant combo can work in the starting lineup. Bryant is a ball dominant guard and Nash has deffered to some ballhandling duties, running the offense, and knocking down open threes. He’s not nearly as ball dominant as he was in his golden years.

With that in mind, Thomas could be a great sixth man off the bench for them. Considering how old Nash is getting, they might only have him log 20-25 minutes a night which will give Thomas plenty of minutes at PG. After Nash expires the following season, they could consider playing Thomas with Bryant in the starting lineup, but I still don’t like that fit for them. They’ll probably acquire a Chalmers type PG to play next to Bryant and have Thomas continue to come off the bench. The fact that Thomas would have to come off the bench can’t be ignored as that is probably not as attractive to Thomas.

Threat Level: Moderate

Situation in Orlando
All of Orlando’s PGs could be gone next season. Nelson has a team option, Moore has a qualifying offer, and Price’s contract will expire. They could end up with no PGs and a whole lot of cap space. At SG they have Oladipo, Afflalo, and Lamb. They have been playing Afflalo out of position at SF, but I think a three guard rotation of Thomas, Afflalo, and Oladipo would work well. Both Thomas and Afflalo are 20 point scorers so Afflalo might have to continue playing SF or come off the bench.. Considering they have been trying to move Afflalo, I don’t think they are too worried with signing players that complement his abilities. I think they are more inclined to sign someone who complements Oladipo’s abilities. Oladipo’s defense, unselfishness, and all-around play (some might say Iguodala-lite) would be a very good compliment to Thomas’ scoring ability and lack of defense.

It’s possible that Orlando could see him as their long term PG next to Oladipo and that is cause for concern.

Threat Level: Strong

Situation in Toronto
All three of Toronto’s PGs could be free agents next year (Lowry, Vazquez, Augustin), and they could have roughly 20 mil in cap space if they don’t pick up team options on Salmons and A. Johnson.

Right now, they have committed to DeRozan being their SG of the future. He is another ball dominant SG that would flourish with a PG who can handle some of the ball handling duties, but that can also play off the ball. Thomas doesn't flourish in that role, so he would have to come off the bench for them.

This team is far from competing for a championship (much different than competing in the East). Does it make sense for them to bring in a sixth man while they have mediocrity at all other positions besides SG? You need to have your core players in place before you start bring in luxuries such as a sixth man.

He could potentially be a good fit as a sixth man, but that means Thomas would have to come off the bench. Would they offer a sixth man much more than $5 mil, or do they plan on running with two 20 PPG players in their starting backcourt? Toronto has been a mess of a franchise so I can see them envisioning Thomas as their PG of the future. However, I would argue against it.

Threat Level: Moderate

NICE analysis.

 

[Entity]

i said a month or so ago. there is about to be a huge shortage of point guards that are out there. I mean quality starting type pgs

 

[LPKingsFan]

Many debates on this forum have centered around will we/should we keep Thomas this Summer. I decided to go ahead and look at the rest of the teams in the league to determine who the threats may be.

First we will start off by eliminating teams based on cap space and fit. The first list below includes all the teams that would not have cap space to sign Thomas this offseason. (I also included teams that only have approximately $5 mil of cap space as I think most would be willing to match a $5 mil a year deal similar to Jamal Crawford’s deal.)

Teams That Don’t Have Cap Space
1. Brooklyn
2. Chicago
3. Denver
4. Houston
5. Indiana
6. Los Angeles Clippers
7. Memphis
8. Miami
9. Minnesota
10. New York
11. Oklahoma City
12. Portland

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a plethora of solid guards.

Teams w/ Solid PG Depth
13. Atlanta – Teague, L. Williams, & Schroeder
14. Cleveland – Irving & Jack
15. New Orleans – Holiday, Evans, Rivers, & Roberts
16. Philadelphia – Carter-Williams & Wroten
17. Phoenix – Dragic & Bledsoe (RFA, but given every indication that they won’t let him go)
18. Milwaukee – Knight, Wolters, Mayo, & Neal (all signed through 2015 – would create log jam)
19. Washington – Wall & Maynor

Now we’ll eliminate teams that would have cap space to sign him, but already have a PG who demands big minutes and cannot slide over to play SG while Thomas plays PG.

Teams w/ Good PGs Who Can’t Slide Over to Play SG
20. Boston – Rondo (Latest reports are that they plan on keeping him)
21. Charlotte – Walker
22. Detroit – Jennings
23. Golden State – Curry
24. San Antonio – Parker
25. Utah – Burke

That leaves us with 4 teams that could possibly go after Thomas this offseason.

Teams That Could Possibly Come After Thomas
1. Dallas
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Orlando
4. Toronto

Situation in Dallas
With an aging Nowitzki and considering they are only in seventh in the West, they have some rebuilding to do. Next year, they will only have Ellis, Calderon, Wright, Ellington, Larkin, Ledo, and Mekel on the books. With roughly $36 mil in cap space, they have some room to do some damage.

With the need to fill their starting spots at SF, PF, and C, they might not have much more cap space to make an offer for Thomas. Also, Ellis will be making close to 9 mil next year and Calderon will be making close to 7 mil next year. Would they really want to offer Thomas a contract that is on par with those two contracts, or would it be more in line with a $5 mil a year contract that we would match? They would have a lot of money locked into short guards who need the ball in their hands and struggle defensively. I was very close to including this team as a “bad fit” team, but decided not to.

Ultimately, I don’t think it would be in Dallas best interest to offer Thomas a contract we wouldn’t match. If anything, I would look for a very good defensive SG who can push Ellis to the bench, but that’s just me.

Threat Level: Weak

Situation in Los Angeles
The Lakers will have roughly 27 mil in cap space next summer. With only 4 players on the books they have a lot of different ways they can build their roster. Right now they have Bryant and Nash on the books. A Nash – Bryant combo can work in the starting lineup. Bryant is a ball dominant guard and Nash has deffered to some ballhandling duties, running the offense, and knocking down open threes. He’s not nearly as ball dominant as he was in his golden years.

With that in mind, Thomas could be a great sixth man off the bench for them. Considering how old Nash is getting, they might only have him log 20-25 minutes a night which will give Thomas plenty of minutes at PG. After Nash expires the following season, they could consider playing Thomas with Bryant in the starting lineup, but I still don’t like that fit for them. They’ll probably acquire a Chalmers type PG to play next to Bryant and have Thomas continue to come off the bench. The fact that Thomas would have to come off the bench can’t be ignored as that is probably not as attractive to Thomas.

Threat Level: Moderate

Situation in Orlando
All of Orlando’s PGs could be gone next season. Nelson has a team option, Moore has a qualifying offer, and Price’s contract will expire. They could end up with no PGs and a whole lot of cap space. At SG they have Oladipo, Afflalo, and Lamb. They have been playing Afflalo out of position at SF, but I think a three guard rotation of Thomas, Afflalo, and Oladipo would work well. Both Thomas and Afflalo are 20 point scorers so Afflalo might have to continue playing SF or come off the bench.. Considering they have been trying to move Afflalo, I don’t think they are too worried with signing players that complement his abilities. I think they are more inclined to sign someone who complements Oladipo’s abilities. Oladipo’s defense, unselfishness, and all-around play (some might say Iguodala-lite) would be a very good compliment to Thomas’ scoring ability and lack of defense.

It’s possible that Orlando could see him as their long term PG next to Oladipo and that is cause for concern.

Threat Level: Strong

Situation in Toronto
All three of Toronto’s PGs could be free agents next year (Lowry, Vazquez, Augustin), and they could have roughly 20 mil in cap space if they don’t pick up team options on Salmons and A. Johnson.

Right now, they have committed to DeRozan being their SG of the future. He is another ball dominant SG that would flourish with a PG who can handle some of the ball handling duties, but that can also play off the ball. Thomas doesn't flourish in that role, so he would have to come off the bench for them.

This team is far from competing for a championship (much different than competing in the East). Does it make sense for them to bring in a sixth man while they have mediocrity at all other positions besides SG? You need to have your core players in place before you start bring in luxuries such as a sixth man.

He could potentially be a good fit as a sixth man, but that means Thomas would have to come off the bench. Would they offer a sixth man much more than $5 mil, or do they plan on running with two 20 PPG players in their starting backcourt? Toronto has been a mess of a franchise so I can see them envisioning Thomas as their PG of the future. However, I would argue against it.

Threat Level: Moderate

Great post. Many here have assumed that he'll get an offer beyond what the Kings should entertain (personally, I'd go up to around $7 million/year), but really there aren't that many teams likely to be in the mix. Of course, all it takes is one, though. Orlando is the biggest threat in my book given that Oladipo could play the lead ballhandler role if need be and IT could fit in as scoring PG next to him and/or off the bench. A lot depends on the draft, though, as if they pick Smart or Exum I doubt they'd spend the $$ on IT.

 

[twslam07]

Great post. Many here have assumed that he'll get an offer beyond what the Kings should entertain (personally, I'd go up to around $7 million/year), but really there aren't that many teams likely to be in the mix. Of course, all it takes is one, though. Orlando is the biggest threat in my book given that Oladipo could play the lead ballhandler role if need be and IT could fit in as scoring PG next to him and/or off the bench. A lot depends on the draft, though, as if they pick Smart or Exum I doubt they'd spend the $$ on IT.

This is a very good point that I was meaning to bring up in my original post but forgot to. Two of these teams that I listed as a threat have the possibility of drafting very early in next year's draft and picking up a guard. If the Lakers draft Smart and Orlando drafts Exum, then they will most likely be out of the race for Thomas.

 

[Padrino]

Great post. Many here have assumed that he'll get an offer beyond what the Kings should entertain (personally, I'd go up to around $7 million/year), but really there aren't that many teams likely to be in the mix. Of course, all it takes is one, though. Orlando is the biggest threat in my book given that Oladipo could play the lead ballhandler role if need be and IT could fit in as scoring PG next to him and/or off the bench. A lot depends on the draft, though, as if they pick Smart or Exum I doubt they'd spend the $$ on IT.

the outta-nowhere factor is always worth considering. who saw new orleans offering 4/$44 million for tyreke evans to be a sixth man, given their existing backcourt of jrue holiday and eric gordon? isaiah thomas is a talented, efficient young combo guard who has played well above expectations for his draft position despite his diminutive size. i truly expect some team out there to offer him more money than i would be comfortable paying him, regardless of "need" or "fit." that said, it may very well be the kings who do so. either way, it will certainly be interesting to see what that figure ends up being...

 

[funkykingston]

A few minor quibbles as Curry DID play big minutes alongside a pint sized scorer in Ellis, but that's a moot point as GS is going to have a hard time affording their core, let alone spending big on a sixth man type scorer. Also I wouldn't rule out Detroit or Charlotte doing something dumb. Did anyone expect New Orleans to throw big money at Tyreke as a sixth man?

But I agree with your conclusion. Orlando makes the most sense as a team to go after and utilize what IT does well while giving him the starting role and money Thomas would likely be seeking. Dallas already has Ellis and much bigger holes to fill and I'm not sure IT would represent good value to Ujiri in Toronto. The Lakers don't worry me simply because the Laker mindset is to go after the biggest fish. I think by the time they've stopped trying to haul in their major catch (successfully or unsuccessfully) Thomas will already be off the market.

Besides, unless LAL does sign a difference making FA (or win the lottery) I'm not sure I'd want to join a team that is still dominated by a 36 year old Kobe Bryant coming off two major injuries for the next two seasons.

 

[LPKingsFan]

the outta-nowhere factor is always worth considering. who saw new orleans offering 4/$44 million for tyreke evans to be a sixth man, given their existing backcourt of jrue holiday and eric gordon? isaiah thomas is a talented, efficient young combo guard who has played well above expectations for his draft position despite his diminutive size. i truly expect some team out there to offer him more money than i would be comfortable paying him, regardless of "need" or "fit." that said, it may very well be the kings who do so. either way, it will certainly be interesting to see what that figure ends up being...

I certainly agree that the team was surprising, but I remember the consensus in the poll I posted over the summer was that posters here were willing to match a Tyreke contract between $10-12 million/year, so that $11 million figure was not all that out of the blue.

 

[Glenn]

the outta-nowhere factor is always worth considering. who saw new orleans offering 4/$44 million for tyreke evans to be a sixth man, given their existing backcourt of jrue holiday and eric gordon? isaiah thomas is a talented, efficient young combo guard who has played well above expectations for his draft position despite his diminutive size. i truly expect some team out there to offer him more money than i would be comfortable paying him, regardless of "need" or "fit." that said, it may very well be the kings who do so. either way, it will certainly be interesting to see what that figure ends up being...

Just as the draft always has a "how the hell did that happen?" moment or two, a team comes out of the blue to offer an outrageous amount of money. What with the insistent beating of the drums by Grant and Jerry and the stats IT is putting up, someone will want him more than we do. Even if there are only two teams available to do it, barring trades that change all the teams researched, I would not be surprised if one wanted him badly. Perhaps I am assuming too much based on my bias but at some point, we can't afford him unless Gay opts out and resigns with us at a more reasonable amount.

 

[Glenn]

I certainly agree that the team was surprising, but I remember the consensus in the poll I posted over the summer was that posters here were willing to match a Tyreke contract between $10-12 million/year, so that $11 million figure was not all that out of the blue.

And it showed how off we, as a group, were.

 

[twslam07]

I certainly agree that the team was surprising, but I remember the consensus in the poll I posted over the summer was that posters here were willing to match a Tyreke contract between $10-12 million/year, so that $11 million figure was not all that out of the blue.

It would be interesting to do a similar poll for Thomas to see where everyone stands. Not sure if it makes more sense to wait to the offseason to do it or to add a poll to this thread, but either way it would be intriguing to see where the majority stands.

 

[Glenn]

It would be interesting to do a similar poll for Thomas to see where everyone stands. Not sure if it makes more sense to wait to the offseason to do it or to add a poll to this thread, but either way it would be intriguing to see where the majority stands.

Then do it. Two polls are necessary: "How much is IT worth" and "How much is a worth to us." Then sit back and watch the arguments get heated.

 

[twslam07]

Then do it. Two polls are necessary: "How much is IT worth" and "How much is a worth to us." Then sit back and watch the arguments get heated.

I don't know how to make a poll let alone two.

 

[Spike]

Isn't "how much is he worth to us?" the only valid question? I mean, if he's really worth 5+ around the league, but 7+ to us, then 7+ is the only number that matters, no? I do think (which is why you brought it up) that what he's worth to this team vs. what he's worth to the rest of the league will certainly vary. I know where I fall personally, but I don't really know where the team falls. I guess we'll all get a clearer picture at the trade deadline, where either:

1. IT is gone. He is packaged for a defender/picks/whatever the team feels it needs more than another scorer.
2. IT stays. The team feels they can resign him for whatever the market is, unless someone goes crazy.

 

[funkykingston]

Now I don't know about you two, but I was always under the assumption that the New Orleans FO was planning on moving Gordon to make room for Evans to start next to Holiday. I don't think they realized how difficult it was going to be to trade Gordon at the time they made the signing. I don't think they went into it thinking "Let's pay this player 11 mil a year to be our sixth man." That seems asinine to me.

Hard to say what they were thinking. Obviously Tyreke can fit alongside either Gordon or Holiday so that could have been their intent all along. I'd think if they wanted to dump Gordon for pennies on the dollar they'd probably have found a taker. But if their plan was to get something good back for him then it still makes no sense to sign Tyreke for $11 million when he would take minutes from Gordon leaving less room to showcase him.

Either way I don't think it was a smart move regardless of what their intent was.

 

[mac]

A few minor quibbles as Curry DID play big minutes alongside a pint sized scorer in Ellis, but that's a moot point as GS is going to have a hard time affording their core, let alone spending big on a sixth man type scorer. Also I wouldn't rule out Detroit or Charlotte doing something dumb. Did anyone expect New Orleans to throw big money at Tyreke as a sixth man?

But I agree with your conclusion. Orlando makes the most sense as a team to go after and utilize what IT does well while giving him the starting role and money Thomas would likely be seeking. Dallas already has Ellis and much bigger holes to fill and I'm not sure IT would represent good value to Ujiri in Toronto. The Lakers don't worry me simply because the Laker mindset is to go after the biggest fish. I think by the time they've stopped trying to haul in their major catch (successfully or unsuccessfully) Thomas will already be off the market.

Besides, unless LAL does sign a difference making FA (or win the lottery) I'm not sure I'd want to join a team that is still dominated by a 36 year old Kobe Bryant coming off two major injuries for the next two seasons.

It would be kinda poetic though if Isaiah Thomas, spawn of a lost Lakers fan bet, ends up a Laker.

 

[Kingster]

Orlando scares me the most. A Oladipo/IT backcourt would be a very scary backcourt for years to come, imo.

And let's take it one step further, if Oladipo/IT is very scary, what is McLemore/IT? Not nearly as scary because we have no evidence whatsoever that McLemore can be an above average defender in the NBA, but Oladipo can play D. Nor is McLemore the playmaker or (at this time) shooter of Oladipo. If IT stays, does McLemore go? Or vice versa? Or does McLemore not figure in the equation at all?

 

[VF21]

FYI: The discussion about Tyreke Evans has been moved to the Tyreke Evans thread in the NBA forum.

 

[funkykingston]

Transplanted from my post that was moved:

Back to IT. I maintain that the team would have been best served had the Greivis Vasquez experiment worked out. For that matter it seems the Kings would have been best off drafting Michael Carter-Williams. Personally I didn't like him as a prospect but clearly I was wrong. He and Thornton could have started with IT coming off the bench and filling all the extra minutes in a three guard rotation. And his asking price as a super sub would have been somewhere in the $4.5-6 million dollar range as opposed to the $7 or $8 million he'll likely command now.

So beyond which teams have cash to make him an offer the real question is whether the Kings FO values him at that figure. And I honestly don't know.

But if the team doesn't see him as a key building block then we'll know because you'll see him moved before the trade deadline versus losing him for nothing. If Thomas is still on the team after the deadline I'd assume the Kings plan to pony up for him barring some ridiculous term sheet from another team.

 

[twslam07]

Transplanted from my post that was moved:

Back to IT. I maintain that the team would have been best served had the Greivis Vasquez experiment worked out. For that matter it seems the Kings would have been best off drafting Michael Carter-Williams. Personally I didn't like him as a prospect but clearly I was wrong. He and Thornton could have started with IT coming off the bench and filling all the extra minutes in a three guard rotation. And his asking price as a super sub would have been somewhere in the $4.5-6 million dollar range as opposed to the $7 or $8 million he'll likely command now.

So beyond which teams have cash to make him an offer the real question is whether the Kings FO values him at that figure. And I honestly don't know.

But if the team doesn't see him as a key building block then we'll know because you'll see him moved before the trade deadline versus losing him for nothing. If Thomas is still on the team after the deadline I'd assume the Kings plan to pony up for him barring some ridiculous term sheet from another team.

I agree with the notion that if we were able to keep Thomas as a bench guard his asking price and his acceptance of that asking price would probably be in that $4.5-6 mil range. However, posting very good numbers for the majority of the season as a starter, has probably raised his market value.

I'm not sure the real question is whether the Kings value him at $7-8 mil. The real question is will any other team value him at $7-8 mil? If nobody else values him at that amount then we don't even need to ask ourselves do we value him at $7-8 mil because we will most likely match his offer sheet..

 

[sdballer]

I'm still going to be surprised if anyone offers an undersized, score-first, one-way pg anything over $8M. He's an extremely efficient, talented scorer but I just don't see people overpaying for what he does well.

There are some bad GM's out there but most of the contracts that exceed that amount for lesser players are considered bad deals. Hopefully we don't make that mistake. We'll see.

 

[funkykingston]

If I've learned one thing about NBA ownerships over the years it's that no matter how much they try to prevent themselves from overspending and making bad decisions (max player salaries, luxury tax, amnesty provisions etc) every offseason they do it again anyway. To me the passive approach is a bad one to take. If the Kings FO views IT as a building block and major piece of the Kings going forward then you offer him a fair deal (maybe starting at $5.5 or $6 million per) and if he rejects it then you let him test the waters, matching any reasonable offer that comes back. But if the FO doesn't see him as a cornerstone type guy then I think letting him hit free agency hoping to get him back at a bargain rate is a fool's errand. Somebody will snatch him up and the Kings will be left with nothing or possibly another Vasquez like talent in a sign-and-trade.

If IT isn't the guy then you trade him and get value while you can.

 

[Glenn]

We joke about Harden's absolute inability to play defense yet next year he will make $14.7 mil. Scorers get paid.

 

[funkykingston]

We joke about Harden's absolute inability to play defense yet next year he will make $14.7 mil. Scorers get paid.

The strange thing to me about Harden is that he was a decent to slightly above defender with the Thunder. Just giving more effort in less minutes? Focusing far too much on scoring with Houston? I don't know. But Kyrie Irving was the wrong guy for those Uncle Drew ads. James Harden has the most old man game of any young buck in the league.

To be fair to Harden, he is terrible on the defensive end but versatile on offense. He slashes, shoots, handles and dishes.

But yes, scorers get paid. It's why Thornton has an $8 mil a year deal. The problem is that teams will sign wings that can fill it up for big money but pause when it's a score first PG. We'll see, but I would guess that if the Kings slow play the offseason with Thomas some team is going to put in a bid they'll be loathe to match.

 

[Bricklayer]

That's a good opening analysis and well thought out way to start a thread, but I do think it understates the risk from teams like Milwaulkee, where basically all those guards have failed, and a number of other teams who could try the 6th man route.

 

[bajaden]

If I've learned one thing about NBA ownerships over the years it's that no matter how much they try to prevent themselves from overspending and making bad decisions (max player salaries, luxury tax, amnesty provisions etc) every offseason they do it again anyway. To me the passive approach is a bad one to take. If the Kings FO views IT as a building block and major piece of the Kings going forward then you offer him a fair deal (maybe starting at $5.5 or $6 million per) and if he rejects it then you let him test the waters, matching any reasonable offer that comes back. But if the FO doesn't see him as a cornerstone type guy then I think letting him hit free agency hoping to get him back at a bargain rate is a fool's errand. Somebody will snatch him up and the Kings will be left with nothing or possibly another Vasquez like talent in a sign-and-trade.

If IT isn't the guy then you trade him and get value while you can.

I completely agree. I'm sure PDA has had some conversations with IT's agent about the kind of contract he's looking for. From IT's perspective, it probably depends on whether the Kings see him as a starting PG or as a sixth man off the bench. Of course money talks, and if paid enough, being the sixth man might be acceptable. The bottom line is, right now, IT has quite a bit of value around the league. If your the Kings, and you have a set amount in mind that you think IT is worth, are you willing to let him hit the freeagent market, and chance that some team out there won't offer him more than your willing to pay? Are you willing to take a chance of losing him for nothing?

There's a possibility that a team, that for all intents and purposes is capped out, but needs a PG, might come knocking on our door prior to the trade deadline. We might get an offer that's very hard to refuse.

 

[bajaden]

That's a good opening analysis and well thought out way to start a thread, but I do think it understates the risk from teams like Milwaulkee, where basically all those guards have failed, and a number of other teams who could try the 6th man route.

Excellent point. Right now the Bucks would love to unload Sanders contract, but that's going to be extremely hard to do at 11 mil a year for 4 yr's. They have Henson, who putting up better numbers than Sanders. They have too many PF's and can't find enough minutes for all of them. They need a good PG. So what do the Kings do if they come knocking and offer Henson straight up for IT?

 

[twslam07]

Excellent point. Right now the Bucks would love to unload Sanders contract, but that's going to be extremely hard to do at 11 mil a year for 4 yr's. They have Henson, who putting up better numbers than Sanders. They have too many PF's and can't find enough minutes for all of them. They need a good PG. So what do the Kings do if they come knocking and offer Henson straight up for IT?

You accept quickly and run away laughing.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm an IT guy and if there is anything I agree with grant on is that if the kid continues on this trajectory he can be a franchise pg. I've seen a lot of improvement in the defensive intensity over the last month and obviously he is still learning the game in his offense quarterback role. Better point guards don't really grow on trees. Smart/exam have question marks and I don't see a better candidate who will come as financially reasonable as IT or can be traded for for what we deem as expendable.
But really depends on IT development. We need to give him more time to demonstrate if his flaws are correctable or not. Kid has improved leaps and bounds from last year and is still young but it seems like he has a shorter leash than any young king I can remember