What about this backcourt combo?

[sqwalk]

I'm pretty darn impressed with McLemore and don't see any reason not to start him after the first few months - if not before. Also, McCallum's defense looks to be the best on the team.

Since this is a rebuilding process, what are people's thoughts about this backcourt early in the season.....

Starters - BM, GV
Subs - RM, JF

My thoughts on the subs is that they come in and McCallum can help Jimmer on defense. McCallum appears to be a point guard that the Kings needed to help run the offense. I think he would do will with the 2nd unit.

This leave Thorton and Thomas expendible. If it's possible, maybe they can trade both to get a big that they need. Obviously, Thorton's salary may be a stumbling block, but with Thomas' ability and low salary, maybe that would equal it out?

Anyway, I think it would be interesting to see how this backcourt would do.

 

[Entity]

so 2 guys that have proven they can put up 20 pts on a given night in the NBA are expendible after 2 preseason games in which one of the guys you have listed starting has not played a game for the kings. other 2 are rookies and the last one is the worst defensive player on the team with no ball handling skill whatsoever and we pair him with a rookie as well. look I will agree Bmac and Rmc looked pretty good last night. it shows me our coaching staff has some skill as they have shown improvment over what I saw in vegas. I have also seen improvment of our previous players.

Lets just please reserve all lineup opinions and get a body of work together.

 

[pshn80]

Agree with Entity even though I have lobbied for Thornton going and see McCallum as our no. 2 PG early on. Most important aspect of what we have seen so far is the signs that the coaching staff is having a positive influence on play so far. It would be an interesting experiment to see if McCallum and Fredette could successfully team together but I still have zero confidence that Jimmer can play up to NBA rotation standards. Let's not buy or sell any stock right mow.

 

[Glenn]

Well this thread ought to start a conversation. We are a team with one above average player and a boatload of average to below average players including at the guard position. Perhaps and probably, McLemore will be above average and if not, man did we screw up. I have McLemore penciled in as a shooting star of the future. There's a pun in there, folks. So we have two I'd very much prefer not to trade unless it was the unlikely trade of McLemore for a decent big. I mean VERY DECENT.

We still have the gaping hole at starting defensive big. Gaping. It's been there a long time. Usually when a team trades away a big on a 2 for one trade, they want a big back. That's IF they want to give up a good defensive big for two below average players. Anyway it can be done, do it. The key isn't so much who we give up but who we acquire. We are in no position to dictate the terms of a trade for a man we desperately need. We need to keep fishing and hope someone bites but I will bet money that the FO's plan is to simply let contracts expire and go into the FA market to fill needs. Patience is the word.

Let's let the season evolve. I'm curious as to what we have as I don't think under the last coach we saw our team play as a team and certain individuals were really mishandled. Hopefully Malone will be the cure and there are a few players that might bloom. I won't stake my reputation on the following comment but I don't think we have seen what Jimmer can contribute. I know he's the 5th man on the guard totem pole but people get injured. I'm not desperate to do anything but establish a REAL basketball team with a REAL coach.

 

[dude12]

I like the 2 rooks quite a bit and it seems that there is a coaching staff in place that can bring them along.......but like the other posters, really need to see more action and games. I want o see them matched up against some of the better guards in the league to really gauge where they are at......but it does look promising after 2 games. Small sample sizes can be misleading but you can see the ability there.

 

[sqwalk]

I totally understand the concerns. Listen, I'm not ready to make any sudden trades right now, but just throwing some thoughts out there to get some discussion going. We desparately need a big and Thorton and Thomas may be able to bring us a quality player in return. Just maybe.

 

[Glenn]

I'll throw this in which deviates a bit from the trade idea. We signed Vasquez for a reason. I cannot for the life of me think that we signed him to be a second string pg. We also drafted McCallum when there were other players available that filled a need - big, tall guys. This caused a bit of consternation on this forum but the intent, as best as I can deduce, is that we signed Vasquez to be a starter and we drafted McCallum with the hopes he could be a rotational pg at some point in his career.

 

[Glenn]

I totally understand the concerns. Listen, I'm not ready to make any sudden trades right now, but just throwing some thoughts out there to get some discussion going. We desparately need a big and Thorton and Thomas may be able to bring us a quality player in return. Just maybe.

I happen to agree that these are two desirable trade pieces and could be packaged in a variety of ways. Heck, we have a lot of trade pieces but they all need to be packaged as no one, alone, could get us an upgrade at any position.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'll throw this in which deviates a bit from the trade idea. We signed Vasquez for a reason. I cannot for the life of me think that we signed him to be a second string pg. We also drafted McCallum when there were other players available that filled a need - big, tall guys. This caused a bit of consternation on this forum but the intent, as best as I can deduce, is that we signed Vasquez to be a starter and we drafted McCallum with the hopes he could be a rotational pg at some point in his career.

We didn't "sign" Vasquez. I have no idea where this notion came from that thinks PDA somehow targeted Vasquez as part of his grand scheme. Basically we saw Tyreke sign with the Pelicans at a price PDA wasn't willing to pay. Instead of watching him leave for nothing, we ask for Vasquez because the Pelicans didn't need him anymore with Jrue and we got to keep some kind of asset.

 

[Glenn]

We didn't "sign" Vasquez. I have no idea where this notion came from that thinks PDA somehow targeted Vasquez as part of his grand scheme. Basically we saw Tyreke sign with the Pelicans at a price PDA wasn't willing to pay. Instead of watching him leave for nothing, we ask for Vasquez because the Pelicans didn't need him anymore with Jrue and we got to keep some kind of asset.

Calm down. If you don't get the point of the note, you are being deliberately dense.

 

[Henkel]

If at this point you're seriously trying to push Jimmer over IT and/or Thorton you have zero credibility.

Also can we please slow down on the McCallum hype. He's played one nice half in a preseason game against one of the worse back courts he'll ever see at this level. Don't get me wrong he looks good for a second round pick and I can buy him as a potential back up point, but he's not better then Isiah. Isiah has proven he can contribute, which is something people seem to dismiss so easily, plus he's outplayed McCallum in both games.

 

[spudfan]

If at this point you're seriously trying to push Jimmer over IT and/or Thorton you have zero credibility.

Also can we please slow down on the McCallum hype. He's played one nice half in a preseason game against one of the worse back courts he'll ever see at this level. Don't get me wrong he looks good for a second round pick and I can buy him as a potential back up point, but he's not better then Isiah. Isiah has proven he can contribute, which is something people seem to dismiss so easily, plus he's outplayed McCallum in both games.

Oh, I guess since you have set all of us straight we might as well take our ball and go home.

 

[spudfan]

I totally understand the concerns. Listen, I'm not ready to make any sudden trades right now, but just throwing some thoughts out there to get some discussion going. We desparately need a big and Thorton and Thomas may be able to bring us a quality player in return. Just maybe.

I think you are right on about who gets moved if something does indeed happen. One of JT/Hayes/PPat could be added to that list too. To get Jimmer in at your 2 guard I think a move would have to happen for a better defensive big to cover for him when he inevitable gets blown past.

As far as starting Ben it comes down to if people want to see us building for the long term or want to see more wins this season. It feels like the general consensus around here is people want to get a quicker start to the season and have our best guys (currently) on the court and bring the rooks along slowly. Either way is just a personal preference and I can't call either way wrong.

 

[dude12]

If at this point you're seriously trying to push Jimmer over IT and/or Thorton you have zero credibility.

Also can we please slow down on the McCallum hype. He's played one nice half in a preseason game against one of the worse back courts he'll ever see at this level. Don't get me wrong he looks good for a second round pick and I can buy him as a potential back up point, but he's not better then Isiah. Isiah has proven he can contribute, which is something people seem to dismiss so easily, plus he's outplayed McCallum in both games.

Explain to me how IT's defense is a plus for this team.

 

[sqwalk]

If at this point you're seriously trying to push Jimmer over IT and/or Thorton you have zero credibility.

Also can we please slow down on the McCallum hype. He's played one nice half in a preseason game against one of the worse back courts he'll ever see at this level. Don't get me wrong he looks good for a second round pick and I can buy him as a potential back up point, but he's not better then Isiah. Isiah has proven he can contribute, which is something people seem to dismiss so easily, plus he's outplayed McCallum in both games.

Yes, I'm pushing Jimmer over Thomas and Thorton. Why? Because I'm hoping we can get a decent Big for them, as their trade value is most likely higher. So how do we get a big without clearing out some talent in return? Trading Jimmer certainly won't get it done. Trading Jimmer & Thorton is too redundant. Maybe trading Jimmer and JT/PPat, but that still leaves us with too many guards and deplete a forward we probably need.

 

[Glenn]

Yes, I'm pushing Jimmer over Thomas and Thorton. Why? Because I'm hoping we can get a decent Big for them, as their trade value is most likely higher. So how do we get a big without clearing out some talent in return? Trading Jimmer certainly won't get it done. Trading Jimmer & Thorton is too redundant. Maybe trading Jimmer and JT/PPat, but that still leaves us with too many guards and deplete a forward we probably need.

Are you saying Jimmer is a better basketball player than IT or Thornton?

 

[spudfan]

Are you saying Jimmer is a better basketball player than IT or Thornton?

From what he has said it looks like the exact opposite. That we have to give up a decent player like IT and/or Thornton to get anyone of value back unless you package Jimmer with one of the bigs.

 

[NewArena]

They need to prove something before we toss reliable scorers to another team

 

[spudfan]

They need to prove something before we toss reliable scorers to another team

I'd toss IT and Jimmer if we could get something ok in return. I think Vasquez can easily fill in for IT, and then some. I would want someone that was a really good fit before giving up Thornton. He is an ideal of the bench spark and a serviceable starter if Malone can control him which I believe he will do.

 

[sqwalk]

From what he has said it looks like the exact opposite. That we have to give up a decent player like IT and/or Thornton to get anyone of value back unless you package Jimmer with one of the bigs.

Yes, this is correct.

I'd toss IT and Jimmer if we
could get something ok in return. I think Vasquez can easily fill in for IT, and then some. I would want someone that was a really good fit before giving up Thornton. He is an ideal of the bench spark and a serviceable starter if Malone can control him which I believe he will do.

Sure, this would be just fine as well if Kings feel that MT is part of their future, and as you say, they can reign him in.

 

[jcwkings]

I don't get why people are tossing IT and Thornton out after 2 pre season games. IT has been one of our best players the last 2 years despite having to share ball handling duties with Tyreke. Thornton is a proven 20 ppg scorer in this league and is a big shot maker that has proven it time and time again. Most importantly IT is infamous for having that tough hardworking spirt and leadership, and Thornton is a pitbull himself, let the rooks learn from them. We can't throw away nice pieces because "look our shiny new toy". Let the rooks learn the ropes behind a couple of young vets, NBA seasons are long and all rookies always hit that wall.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I don't get why people are tossing IT and Thornton out after 2 pre season games. IT has been one of our best players the last 2 years despite having to share ball handling duties with Tyreke. Thornton is a proven 20 ppg scorer in this league and is a big shot maker that has proven it time and time again. Most importantly IT is infamous for having that tough hardworking spirt and leadership, and Thornton is a pitbull himself, let the rooks learn from them. We can't throw away nice pieces because "look our shiny new toy". Let the rooks learn the ropes behind a couple of young vets, NBA seasons are long and all rookies always hit that wall.

Yeah, thank god we let Tyreke go, he was really holding back IT.

 

[bajaden]

If at this point you're seriously trying to push Jimmer over IT and/or Thorton you have zero credibility.

Also can we please slow down on the McCallum hype. He's played one nice half in a preseason game against one of the worse back courts he'll ever see at this level. Don't get me wrong he looks good for a second round pick and I can buy him as a potential back up point, but he's not better then Isiah. Isiah has proven he can contribute, which is something people seem to dismiss so easily, plus he's outplayed McCallum in both games.

Not to nic pic, but actually he's played two very nice games, and in the first one he was being guarded by one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA. So lets give credit where its due. That said, I think its a bit early to jump to any type of conclusion on who starts or is a regular part of the rotation. I've liked McCallum from the moment we drafted him, and going to Las Vegas and seeing him play, up close and personal, only verified my original beliefs. But IT isn't chopped liver. He's a solid NBA player that deserves respect for what he's accomplished.

I realize its fun to speculate, and that's what his forum is all about, and there's not doubt that changes need to be made to the roster. But you don't make trades just to make them. Its easy to say, trade Thornton and IT for a defensive big to put next to Cousins, but its not easy to do. The Kings aren't the only team on a shake down cruise. Most of the teams out there are faced with decisions that affect their future. So patience is the key at this point. Someone might make a mistake. Either by releasing a player with potential, at a position they don't feel a need. Or by becoming a willing trade partner out of desperation to fill a need. A need we might be able to fill.

I suggest everyone just sit back and enjoy the preseason. So far I like the cohesive approach that Malone is taking. He appears to have a plan, and he's methodically sticking to it. In short, so far, he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and that's refreshing. And for now, that's enough for me.

 

[sqwalk]

Not to nic pic, but actually he's played two very nice games, and in the first one he was being guarded by one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA. So lets give credit where its due. That said, I think its a bit early to jump to any type of conclusion on who starts or is a regular part of the rotation. I've liked McCallum from the moment we drafted him, and going to Las Vegas and seeing him play, up close and personal, only verified my original beliefs. But IT isn't chopped liver. He's a solid NBA player that deserves respect for what he's accomplished.

I realize its fun to speculate, and that's what his forum is all about, and there's not doubt that changes need to be made to the roster. But you don't make trades just to make them. Its easy to say, trade Thornton and IT for a defensive big to put next to Cousins, but its not easy to do. The Kings aren't the only team on a shake down cruise. Most of the teams out there are faced with decisions that affect their future. So patience is the key at this point. Someone might make a mistake. Either by releasing a player with potential, at a position they don't feel a need. Or by becoming a willing trade partner out of desperation to fill a need. A need we might be able to fill.

I suggest everyone just sit back and enjoy the preseason. So far I like the cohesive approach that Malone is taking. He appears to have a plan, and he's methodically sticking to it. In short, so far, he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and that's refreshing. And for now, that's enough for me.

I agree Baja. I'm not suggesting a rash trade right now. I'm good with letting this preseason and early season play out.

Also, I'm not trying to throw out IT. I do think he's a great talent, but really would like to see him as our spark plug off the bench then a starter. I hope he would embrace that roll. But at the same time I keep thinking IT may have the most trade value (because of talent and salary combined).

Well, either way it's going to be fun and interesting to see how this team evolves. I certainly like what I've seen from Malone's coaching so far.

 

[The_Jamal]

Not to nic pic, but actually he's played two very nice games, and in the first one he was being guarded by one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA. So lets give credit where its due. That said, I think its a bit early to jump to any type of conclusion on who starts or is a regular part of the rotation. I've liked McCallum from the moment we drafted him, and going to Las Vegas and seeing him play, up close and personal, only verified my original beliefs. But IT isn't chopped liver. He's a solid NBA player that deserves respect for what he's accomplished.

I realize its fun to speculate, and that's what his forum is all about, and there's not doubt that changes need to be made to the roster. But you don't make trades just to make them. Its easy to say, trade Thornton and IT for a defensive big to put next to Cousins, but its not easy to do. The Kings aren't the only team on a shake down cruise. Most of the teams out there are faced with decisions that affect their future. So patience is the key at this point. Someone might make a mistake. Either by releasing a player with potential, at a position they don't feel a need. Or by becoming a willing trade partner out of desperation to fill a need. A need we might be able to fill.

I suggest everyone just sit back and enjoy the preseason. So far I like the cohesive approach that Malone is taking. He appears to have a plan, and he's methodically sticking to it. In short, so far, he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and that's refreshing. And for now, that's enough for me.

I think we'll make very attractive trade partners at the deadline for some contender. IT, Vasquez, Ppat, JT, Thornton are all pieces I could see other teams having a great interest in that could really help a contender make that final push.

 

[bajaden]

I agree Baja. I'm not suggesting a rash trade right now. I'm good with letting this preseason and early season play out.

Also, I'm not trying to throw out IT. I do think he's a great talent, but really would like to see him as our spark plug off the bench then a starter. I hope he would embrace that roll. But at the same time I keep thinking IT may have the most trade value (because of talent and salary combined).

Well, either way it's going to be fun and interesting to see how this team evolves. I certainly like what I've seen from Malone's coaching so far.

I really like IT! I want to make that clear. I thought he was a huge steal when we drafted him with the last pick in the second round. But I do foresee a potential problem with both him and Vasquez on the team in the future, which of course may not even happen beyond this season. But for the sake of conversation, lets say that the Kings want to resign both Vasquez and It at seasons end. The problem I see isn't about the competition it would bring, or even about the acceptance of which ever player is designated to be the back up. Its about a potentially divided house. Its the equivalent of having two very good quarterbacks on a football team. It can work for while, if one is the heir apparent. But if both are young, you can end up with some of the team supporting one and the rest of the team supporting the other. Its the exact reason the 49'ers traded Smith, along with not being able to afford two high priced quarterbacks.

I can assure you that IT has his following on the team, and in time, Vasquez will have his group of believers. That can over time, cause dissension. I'm not predicting it will, but its something that's better off resolved before it evolves. I doubt anything will happen before the trade deadline, but I do think it will come down to a choice between IT and Vasquez, and who best fits what their trying to build.

 

[jcwkings]

Yeah, thank god we let Tyreke go, he was really holding back IT.

Get over it, Tyreke is gone, move on. I was just stating a fact, IT is a ball dominant PG that started with a ball dominant SG, thats it, i'm not saying IT is better than Tyreke so you can turn off the alarms.

 

[bajaden]

I think we'll make very attractive trade partners at the deadline for some contender. IT, Vasquez, Ppat, JT, Thornton are all pieces I could see other teams having a great interest in that could really help a contender make that final push.

I think the one player on your list that won't be traded is JT. He's too valuable, in that he can play the center position as well as Pf. Not saying he's untradable. Everyone is tradable for the right price. I just think they'd rather move the other players first. Thornton tops my list except for his salary, which might make him a little harder to move. But if Jimmer shows he can fill the SG role to some extent, you still have Salmons for the rest of the year who can also play that position. Trading Thornton would also make moving McLemore into the starting lineup easier, with little or no dissension from anyone.

I still think a deal with Houston might be possible. I think Patterson would be a perfect fit next to Howard. Houston needs players that can spread the floor. I'm not suggesting a straight up trade of course. We'd have to offer a little more than Patterson. Perhaps Jimmer! I'm referring to trading for Asik of course, who appears headed for the backup role. In short, I agree with you. We do have some assets that could help fill some of our needs. I'd love to acquire another first round pick in next years draft if possible. Its a very deep draft, and if you can fill a need with a cheap contract for 4 years, it increases your financial flexibility.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think the one player on your list that won't be traded is JT. He's too valuable, in that he can play the center position as well as Pf. Not saying he's untradable. Everyone is tradable for the right price. I just think they'd rather move the other players first. Thornton tops my list except for his salary, which might make him a little harder to move. But if Jimmer shows he can fill the SG role to some extent, you still have Salmons for the rest of the year who can also play that position. Trading Thornton would also make moving McLemore into the starting lineup easier, with little or no dissension from anyone.

I still think a deal with Houston might be possible. I think Patterson would be a perfect fit next to Howard. Houston needs players that can spread the floor. I'm not suggesting a straight up trade of course. We'd have to offer a little more than Patterson. Perhaps Jimmer! I'm referring to trading for Asik of course, who appears headed for the backup role. In short, I agree with you. We do have some assets that could help fill some of our needs. I'd love to acquire another first round pick in next years draft if possible. Its a very deep draft, and if you can fill a need with a cheap contract for 4 years, it increases your financial flexibility.

Well, Im thinking more along the lines of the FO has shown long-term committment to 3 guys: Cousins, Landry, and McLemore. To me, everyone else is in "try-out" mode to fill out the roster how the FO wants. So my hope is we make a decision with the guys who we want to move forward with and then as you said, look to acquire draft picks that help quicken the rebuild we want to put on the floor. And if there was a draft to stock-pile draft picks, this would be the one to do so in

 

[bajaden]

Well, Im thinking more along the lines of the FO has shown long-term committment to 3 guys: Cousins, Landry, and McLemore. To me, everyone else is in "try-out" mode to fill out the roster how the FO wants. So my hope is we make a decision with the guys who we want to move forward with and then as you said, look to acquire draft picks that help quicken the rebuild we want to put on the floor. And if there was a draft to stock-pile draft picks, this would be the one to do so in

I think we are of like mind! I will admit some bias when it comes to the draft, since I'm a college basketball nut job. I already have every team charted, and a board made up for each team that has a player of interest to me. Its a lot of work, but its fun as well. This year in particular is going to be more fun. Depth at almost every position is available. Still early of course. They haven't played a game yet, and yet there's a lot of nonsense going around like Wiggins being the next Lebron. There is only one Lebron, just like there's only one Jordan and one Kobe. Hopefully in a few years, we'll be saying there's only one Wiggins. Maybe!