Because he's vocal, volatile and hates losing. And he has played for a franchise that has done nothing to help him win.
Ziller: Time for Kings to consider life after Cousins
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Because he's vocal, volatile and hates losing. And he has played for a franchise that has done nothing to help him win.
See? You just did exactly what I described. Making excuses for him.
Now I remember why I used to have you on ignore
CuzistanKing
G-League
Absolutely! I think I mentioned before that Rondo's leadership is really my only hope for this season. Sure, Karl will see the light eventually - but it's Rondo that's going to focus us on the court and stop DMC from strangling Karl off it.
And you just randomly took me off ignore? I call BS!
They're not excuses. They're explanations and answers to your questions. Can you honestly say after what you saw tonight that he's not worth defending?
EDIT: You know what? Don't bother responding. I'm in too good a mood to waste it arguing about this. You can place all the blame on Cousins from now until eternity. It won't change how good he is.
It's not a question of how good he is. We all know that he has incredible skills on the court. It's about his maturity level and how he handles himself and his emotions. Seriously, it's year after year. I'm just tired of all the drama. Sorry.
Kingsgurl
Starter
I made the mistake of turning on Grant's show while driving into the game. I was almost embarrassed to walk into the Arena wearing Kings gear. I felt like I needed a sign that said "I'm with Stupid" I know that, just like this board, there are shee....er people who are vocal and opinionated (and get on the radio to support Grant's axe) or grind their own axe here. I think they should maybe watch more basketball instead of flapping their gums or tapping their keyboard..... but they won't. Anyone who thinks DeMarcus is the problem, rather than a convenient target for your frustration, really doesn't see the big picture.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
It sounds like sdballer and VF21 are a little tired of your drama.
Kingsgurl
Starter
The drama certainly does not all stem from Cousins. His maturity is something he has been working on, as he, you know, matures. So, tonight, specifically, what can you point to? He called a team meeting, obviously needed. Took charge, when the lead started slipping and it was precarious, he stepped up and did not ALLOW this team to lose. I was at the game and watched the replay. He had nice conversations with the refs, hell, he almost had a freaking halo.
As we redefine our identity, from disaster/door-mat to winners, I think it's pretty important that we, as fans, keep up with what is actually happening NOW. This team can't win carrying the albatross of losing kings past. Cousins can't mature if we do not allow the narrative to be changed, do not see the progress and instead only focus on "We lost and I swear I saw DeMarcus glare at someone" so that's why..... or worse "We lost a bunch of games DeMarcus didn't play, he came back and we lost another one, trade him"
He is a work in progress. If you can't accept that, then we really have nothing else to talk about.
I would like to "like" this a hella lot of times.
KingsFanGER
Starter
I most likely will never understand, why some are painting DMC as the centerpoint of endless drama.
He yells at officials and complains about calls. But if you put this aside, there are two confirmed incidents, where he got in an argument with his coach. Two incidents in 6 seasons of losing with constant coaching changes and two subpar ownerships. 6 seasons of for the most part undeserved loyalty to a franchise, that struggled to built even the slightest identity.
Of course if you read all those articles about how bad of a human being Cuz is, it sure seems like he is a constant headcase. Because if the same thing is repeated over and over again, it becomes common sense.
So Cuz is a coach killer, a headcase, immature, the cause of losing for the Kings.......
All this because of two emotional outbursts.
Or is it just his on court behaviour, that some can't stand?
But how do you expect a player to play the way Cuz plays, without being hostile? Getting physical, searching for contact, but smile all the time?
For me it always feels like Cuz just plays during the wrong decade.
Let's be real in the 90's Cuz behaviour wouldn't be that big of a deal.
But today, thanks to social media and experts like Barkley, who seem to forget, how they acted themselves as players, it's suddenly something to write and talk about all the time.
If Cuz is the badass of the NBA, the league is damn soft nowadays.
Still I personally take Cuz with his antics over guys like Monroe, AD or Drummond, who are nice and quite, but never dominate a game by sheer will and out of anger.
Actually this is the reason, why Cuz is a franchise player, while Rudy Gay is a nice #2 option. Rudy is a nice guy, but he doesn't step up when under pressure.
But you can bet, that Cuz will step up and will try harder the more adversity you throw at him.
In fact he will try hard to a fault and he is prone to make mistakes, because he wants to shoulder the team all by himself.
But is this really a fault?
Sorry for the lengthy response, but the headcase issue is brought up time and time again as soon as some beat writer feels like bashing the Kings again and digs out the Westphal incident and I'm really tired of it.
CelticsFan
Bench
The fact that any player can allegedly curse out a coach the way he allegedly did and not get suspended is the problem. If the coach doesn't have the respect of the team how are they going to buy into what he says? Karl wanted to suspend him but the Kings wouldn't let him, that's probably what has been happening Cousins whole life. He's such a great talent that he's never been held responsible for his actions. People around him make excuses like he just wants to win so bad and he's frustrated. Last I check the Kings weren't the worst team in history it's up to Cousins to turn it around.
Anthony Daivis isn't yelling at his coach because they aren't winning, neither was KG when he was on all those bad teams. Durant only combine for 43 wins his first two seasons he wasn't yelling at coaches. Stop making excuses for this guy it's called enabling
The inmates are running the asylum
Anthony Daivis isn't yelling at his coach because they aren't winning, neither was KG when he was on all those bad teams. Durant only combine for 43 wins his first two seasons he wasn't yelling at coaches. Stop making excuses for this guy it's called enabling
The inmates are running the asylum
KingsFanGER
Starter
I don't want to make excuses for Cousins. Lack of respect is never a good thing, wether it's towards your coach, your family or your coworkers.
Who says, that he is not held responsible? There are many ways to handle this and to suspend Cousins is probably the worst thing to do, because it hurts the franchise more than it hurts Cousins.
Cousins apologized, he came out and played a great game and was trying hard to keep his emotions in check. That's excactly the response you want from Cousins as a coach, as a franchise and teammate. Maybe the Kings handled the issue quite well despite the oh so knowledgeable writers saying otherwise?
What's getting on my nerves is the hyperbole and negativity that is brought up every time, when there is the slightest glimpse of lack of selfcontrol with Cousins.
Like I said - we are talking about on court behaviour, which is actually not that special - just watch Griffin, Paul, Westbrook, Durant.... - and two confirmed incidents, where Cousins clashed with a coach.
That's it!
But Cousins is painted as immature, as a headcase......it's just beyond stupid.
How about talking about the positive side of Cousins? He turned himself into the best center in the league, he is loyal to the Kings, he actually tries to fit in any system the coach wants to play, he never blamed anyone for the Kings problems and never excluded himself from criticism, he never had off court issues....
And let me add one thing: there are many ways of leadership and authority. It doesn't always need to be the "do as I say and shut up"-type of leadership. Running a business or a sports franchise is not comparable to the military. Respect and authority is no one way ticket and needs to be constantly earned.
CelticsFan
Bench
I have never seen anyone write a negative article about the way Cousins plays, as a matter of fact isn't he considered the best young center in the NBA? The problem is his attitude pure and simple.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. Besides Rondo can anyone remember the last time a player had an outburst on their coach like this? Rondo got suspended last year for his antics, I would think that's pretty standard unless you're enabling a player.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. Besides Rondo can anyone remember the last time a player had an outburst on their coach like this? Rondo got suspended last year for his antics, I would think that's pretty standard unless you're enabling a player.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Well maybe we read different kind of articles. And even if he is rightfully named the best center in the NBA, there is always a clause or two about his attitude and so called immaturity. Ever read the same kind of things about Griffin, Paul, the most unsportsmanslike player in the NBA, or Westbrook?
Rondo was refusing to fit into Carlisle system and was yelling at the coach in public. Cousins does his best to fit into any system and voices his anger in the lockerroom, where it is supposed to be private.
And the Mavs could easily suspend Rondo, because they actually didn't need him at all. Suspending your best player is a completely different issue, if you are 1-7 and try to make the playoffs.
Like I said - I'm not saying that Cuz did this team a favor or that we should applause him for his behaviour and I do think the Kings found a decent way to handle this issue, or else Cuz wouldn't have responded like he did.
But I'm not on board with the usual overreaction and the narrative, that he is a headcase for years or that his attitude is a problem, outside of making subpar decisions when trying too hard.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Jordan was (and continues to be) a complete POS, Barkley was a hot head, Kobe is a sociopath....
.... there are quite a few HOFers who could be described as "temperamental"....
The main thing is deciding whether or not the talent makes the on court antics worth it. In Cousins' case, I believe the answer is a resounding yes.
The fact that he seems to be a genuinely good guy off the court doesn't hurt either.
And no, I'm not making excuses for his behavior. I hate the pouting, and complaining, and the temper. Those are all weaknesses, and I want Cuz to be the best player he can be. And I agree that at times, when his attitude is awful, it absolutely hurts the team. Cuz's temper is the problem, not the player. I still think, that if things start going right, he'll calm down. The dude is self aware.
And we've all seen what Cuz can do when focused, when he has a coach that has his back. People were talking about Cuz as a MVP candidate early last season.
I still think the real issue with this team is Vivek. The little megalomaniac just doesn't get it. But that's an argument for another thread....
.... there are quite a few HOFers who could be described as "temperamental"....
The main thing is deciding whether or not the talent makes the on court antics worth it. In Cousins' case, I believe the answer is a resounding yes.
The fact that he seems to be a genuinely good guy off the court doesn't hurt either.
And no, I'm not making excuses for his behavior. I hate the pouting, and complaining, and the temper. Those are all weaknesses, and I want Cuz to be the best player he can be. And I agree that at times, when his attitude is awful, it absolutely hurts the team. Cuz's temper is the problem, not the player. I still think, that if things start going right, he'll calm down. The dude is self aware.
And we've all seen what Cuz can do when focused, when he has a coach that has his back. People were talking about Cuz as a MVP candidate early last season.
I still think the real issue with this team is Vivek. The little megalomaniac just doesn't get it. But that's an argument for another thread....
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This is the best summary I've seen on Cuz. For this team to take the next step, Cuz has to be engaged for 48 minutes. He can be emotional on the floor, but he still hasn't learned how to channel his emotions on it like a Jordan, Barkley or Kobe did. When they got angry on the floor, they took it out on the other team, not their own. Even last night, where I thought Cuz had his best game of the season, he had several plays where you just thought "Dude, what the hell are you doing?" as he whined to the refs while being late getting back on defense.
Cuz is far down the list of problems, but this team isn't going anywhere if he doesn't embrace his role as the franchise player and all that entails on a nightly basis.
Padrino
All-Star
i often wonder if some of you spend much time watching nba games beyond those that the kings appear in. a great many of the league's stars take plays off on defense as they complain to the officials. it's an unfortunate symptom of the nba having over-legislated the game; because it takes very little contact in the contemporary nba to earn a foul call, virtually all contact becomes a point of complaint/debate for the players, coaches, and fans. tim duncan, he of one of the most sterling reputations in the entire nba, is also one of its biggest complainers. blake griffin and chris paul are notorious fit-throwers. lebron can be endlessly demonstrative when things don't go his way, and he's spent plenty of time publicly at odds with david blatt since returning to cleveland. and lesser stars like dwight howard and pau gasol are likewise renowned for their cry baby attitudes. it is not some kind of rarity across the league's star-studded landscape...
now, does this absolve cousins of his occasionally poor attitude on the court? absolutely not. but it's terribly reductive, intellectually dishonest, and more than a little "grass is always greener..." to position demarcus cousins as some kind of anomaly among superstars when it comes to his demonstrative behavior toward the officials. he needs to get a handle on his emotions. he must learn to control himself better, particularly in tight games. however, "maturity" is not some kind of easily-defined linear progression. demarcus' environment since arriving in sacramento--to be unnecessarily polite--has simply not been conducive to expediting his growth, both as a player and as a man. yet here in sacramento he remains, the most dominant big of his generation, a hulking-yet-surprisingly-skilled mismatch nightmare waiting on this franchise to get its sh*t together long enough to produce just one f***ing season without an excess of mismanagement, internal drama, and destabilizing forces that ritually and habitually upend any progress the kings could hope to make...
now, does this absolve cousins of his occasionally poor attitude on the court? absolutely not. but it's terribly reductive, intellectually dishonest, and more than a little "grass is always greener..." to position demarcus cousins as some kind of anomaly among superstars when it comes to his demonstrative behavior toward the officials. he needs to get a handle on his emotions. he must learn to control himself better, particularly in tight games. however, "maturity" is not some kind of easily-defined linear progression. demarcus' environment since arriving in sacramento--to be unnecessarily polite--has simply not been conducive to expediting his growth, both as a player and as a man. yet here in sacramento he remains, the most dominant big of his generation, a hulking-yet-surprisingly-skilled mismatch nightmare waiting on this franchise to get its sh*t together long enough to produce just one f***ing season without an excess of mismanagement, internal drama, and destabilizing forces that ritually and habitually upend any progress the kings could hope to make...
kingjatt
Starter
Vivek is a huge issue but I don't think he is the biggest issue. He had quite an ego coming in as a rookie owner and truly believing he could revolutionize a game that he just heard about a few years ago. Last years circus appears to have humbled him somewhat on the basketball decision side but as the Owner he will always a heavy voice in all decisions and that scares alot of us. That along with him loving the celebrity status that comes with being the owner (i.e courtside with tyga drake jay sean etc..) leaves a sour impression with some lifelong hoops fans who never saw Peter Holt, Mickey Arison and other successful owners giving so many interviews and wanting the spotlight so bad.
Sacramento will tolerate and ignore his major flaws simply because we endured the worst ownership in recent sports history with the magoofs . At the end of the day Vivek wants to be in Sac, wants to win, and (for now) has the means to spend on a decent roster and thats good enough.
We've had a non-zero number of posters state explicitly that they do not; one or two seem as though they may actually take pride in it.
Padrino
All-Star
interesting. i don't know what to make of that. i also don't know if said individuals are represented among those leveling the harshest of criticisms at cousins. but i do know that there is an ungracious and incomplete picture being painted by many in this thread...
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
The First Take boys were discussing this and for once, the national media types had it right.
Simply put, Cuz is more valuable to this organization than Karl is and Karl likely already burned the bridge with Cuz last season and this summer. So unless we're positive Karl can fix the relationship, you fire him, taking into account Cuz's personality and that after all the losing, FO failures and backstabbing, he's inching closer and closer to wanting out when crap like this pops up. And when he decides he's had enough, that's that.
And you've wasted the top big in the game.
Simply put, Cuz is more valuable to this organization than Karl is and Karl likely already burned the bridge with Cuz last season and this summer. So unless we're positive Karl can fix the relationship, you fire him, taking into account Cuz's personality and that after all the losing, FO failures and backstabbing, he's inching closer and closer to wanting out when crap like this pops up. And when he decides he's had enough, that's that.
And you've wasted the top big in the game.
I have no idea how some here are defending a player cursing his coach in front of the team... more importantly I don't know why you feel the need to defend that action.
The way the argument switched from "it's just BS from the media, Cousins will never do that and if you believe he did you should be ashamed of yourself", to "he did it and it's not a big deal, in fact it's expected" is crazy to me.
If it's not a big deal why were you so riled up when it was first reported?
You shouldn't curse your coach, humilate him infront of the team and disrespect a 64 year old HOF coach with 1144 wins- even if he is wrong. you got a problem with him? talk to him in person, I would expect a guy that talks so much about respect and loyalty to understand that.
Cousins should have been punished for it, not just for the team's sake- but for his own. this franchise has basically let him get away with any kind of behaviour and enabled him to do whatever he wants- and that's bad not only for the team but also for his development.
Part of it is calling a guy that never won over 30 games in a season "HOFer", I think you have to prove something that he hasn't proven yet.
Now since this thread is about an article that suggests we trade him, do I think he should be traded? HELL NO!
Do I think you can build a winning franchise around him? ABSOLUTELY.
Is he the future/present of the franchise and have the talent to become an HOFer? YES.
But that doesn't mean (atleast to me) I'll defend each and every action he takes, what he did was wrong and he shouldn't have done it.
I also think he should have been punished for it (especially if the reports about Karl asking to suspend him his true- if he was denied that it's an embarrassment, you should go ahead and fire him on the spot) that doesn't take nothing from how I feel about him as a player and as the future of this franchise.
The way the argument switched from "it's just BS from the media, Cousins will never do that and if you believe he did you should be ashamed of yourself", to "he did it and it's not a big deal, in fact it's expected" is crazy to me.
If it's not a big deal why were you so riled up when it was first reported?
You shouldn't curse your coach, humilate him infront of the team and disrespect a 64 year old HOF coach with 1144 wins- even if he is wrong. you got a problem with him? talk to him in person, I would expect a guy that talks so much about respect and loyalty to understand that.
Cousins should have been punished for it, not just for the team's sake- but for his own. this franchise has basically let him get away with any kind of behaviour and enabled him to do whatever he wants- and that's bad not only for the team but also for his development.
Part of it is calling a guy that never won over 30 games in a season "HOFer", I think you have to prove something that he hasn't proven yet.
Now since this thread is about an article that suggests we trade him, do I think he should be traded? HELL NO!
Do I think you can build a winning franchise around him? ABSOLUTELY.
Is he the future/present of the franchise and have the talent to become an HOFer? YES.
But that doesn't mean (atleast to me) I'll defend each and every action he takes, what he did was wrong and he shouldn't have done it.
I also think he should have been punished for it (especially if the reports about Karl asking to suspend him his true- if he was denied that it's an embarrassment, you should go ahead and fire him on the spot) that doesn't take nothing from how I feel about him as a player and as the future of this franchise.
CuzistanKing
G-League
Hit the nail on the head - it really is as simple as that. What's even more amazing, Cuz seems to be eternally loyal to the city/fans and has been (mostly) taking it on the chin instead of pulling a LeBron on us. I think at this point we're beyond hoping they'll repair their relationship, but we do have a secret weapon in Vlade which gives DMC someone to trust and vent to, serving as a pressure valve regarding Karl. We also have Rondo who Cuz respects and who seems to be embracing the mentor role (you can see him talking to Cuz a LOT during breaks on the court). There's hope!
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I think you're getting opinions mixed up. You're conflating one side with the other.
There are some who seem to lash out against any perceived negative regarding this team/players. My guess is they're tired of this franchise getting run through the mud and are begging for success. There's also another side who won't really raise their eyebrows much at Cuz cursing out Karl given the history between them, between Cuz and this organization and as alluded to above, a number of HOF level players are tough to deal with and don't stomach losing that well.
Believe it or not, cursing out your coach isn't as rare as some what to believe. What's not so rare is nowadays almost everything leaks, then spreads like wildfire across social media whereas previously, fans and media alike never would have heard about it. I personally don't really have a problem with what Cuz did, I have more of a problem with it being a byproduct of a coach/Cuz relationship I never see being repaired to the extent we need it to and that we're wasting time with Karl here.
Name off some of the great or top players over the last decade, guys like Barkley or Shaq or Lebron or KG or CP3 or Kobe or Westbrook or Kidd. They're all tough to handle. Kobe regularly would prod his coach or GM thru the media. But none of them, not one spent 5-6 years in such a toxic, cluster**** of a situation where they've never even won 30 games. Take those personalities among others and put them in this same situation and it too could and would likely see outbursts and incredible frustration.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
People criticize him for dribbling the ball up the court, shooting 3 pointers, and his passing.
I might have mixed up some opinions as it wasn't aimed at any one poster... but you have to admit that since there were a lot of posters angry about the reporters and a fairly small amount of people talking after it was revealed to be true that argued against it (or called for any disciplinary action)- that they downplayed it's importance.
I don't think it's a common thing, atleast not in the manner described, there is a difference between what was described and the common coach-star drama- an evidence to that imo is the public apology (which wasn't addressed to Karl) and this segment in the reports:
I agree with you that I don't see the Cuz/Karl relationship as a good one, and much like you I thought we should have fired him in the summer and avoid a volatile situation, and though I think that firing Karl now is bad because it rewards bad behaviour- I still think we should do it because I don't think it's going to get any better between them and I like this option much more than the trading Cuz alternative.
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