You can't have it both ways

[VF21]

Back in the glory days, we didn't have a lot of youth on our bench. We had veterans and players who had been around long enough NOT to make the mistakes of youth. We did pretty well, but people were always complaining that we just didn't have anyone coming up for the future.

It didn't matter, though. It was all about the ring... the bling or nothing. So, the Kings kept getting rid of their youth to grab that aging vet with one or two more good years, to hopefully fill the gap to get us over the final obstacle.

It didn't happen. Injuries continually hampered us, and our veterans played way too many minutes, tiring in the stretch sometimes to nearly the point of exhaustion.

...

Fast forward...

Now, we aren't an elite contending team. We're a team rebuilding. AND we have some youth on our bench. So, for God's sake, why can't people accept that and let the youngsters make their mistakes and learn???

A good game and the kid should be starting. How many people were so sold on Garcia before he had even stepped into Arco that they were ready to get rid of some starters for him??? Still feel that way???

Martin is young. Hart is young. Price is young. Garcia is young. They are young - AND they have potential. They have to learn the ropes of the NBA, however, and they have to learn to play both together and with the starters of our team.

We are NOT going to be contending for the WCF unless there's some miracle. And we might not even make the playoffs. It's not totally out of the realm of possibility. If it happens, it happens.

Please, the next time you start to say something really derogatory about any of our young bench players, think about it a moment. Allow them to make those mistakes EVERY single young player makes.

They are Kings. They're wearing the uniform of the team we all profess to love. Instead of lambasting them without mercy, why not cheer for them? Criticize them for bonehead plays, but don't expect perfection. It's not fair to them ... and it's not fair to us.

GO KINGS!!!!!

 

[hoopsfan]

Some fans have not been around long enough to realize and deal with the fact that teams can't stay on top forever. Every team goes through rebuilding years...it's no fun, but it happens. You and I know that..some are still figuring that out.

 

[SkinnerBox]

Thank you and well said.

People, if all you want to do is spout doom and critisize people, methinks you'd be better off following politics than professional sports.

I hope we won't have to be having this little pep-talk after EVERY loss this season.

EDIT: I'll admit I've only been a Kings fan since I moved to Sac about 5 years ago, but I've followed the Raiders religiously for about 15 years, so I understand what it means to love a struggling team. However bad this may feel right now, it can get MUCH worse. We still have a lot to love about this team.

 

[Evenstar]

nice post VF21

i wouldn't mind seeing the kids getting more of the PT, even if it means struggling. they certainly aren't going to learn sitting on the bench. the kings aren't going anywhere this year, so i say let the youngsters go through the learning phase now so we can be contenders next year.

i'll still love them even if they suck

GO KINGS!

 

[funsc]

good post!
Although kings are struggling now, they should feel lucky since they have the best fans!!

 

[ParniValjak]

Hart is not exactly young but I do agree with your post

 

[Odoylerules]

what isnt right is that you have grizzled, talented vets like Corliss, Kenny, and Skinner riding the pine, while these young guys eat minutes learning on the floor.

I understand the necessity of the youth needing playing time, but this isnt a daycare. This team needs to start winning ballgames. This isnt a "stumble out of the gate" anymore, this is being under .500 after the first full month of the season.

Time to change the mixture, and give the bench vets more time.

 

[swisshh]

What bothers me is all those seasons before where the young players got no minutes, never developed and the veterans and starters wore out. I am not exactly sure what good came out of that strategy, especially when you look at what teams like San Antonio and Dallas have done with their young guys.

 

[LA King Fan II]

I agree that the young talent needs patience and time. I don't believe our youngsters are as skilled as others around the league though, or that their upside is as great. I don't see them as the future. Perhaps Garcia will become very tough, but I don't see it for Martin. He's had a year. He simply can't shoot, or defend well enough to seem a potential star.

It seems the young talent around the league is better. Felton, May, Paul, Robinson as rookies are showing much more game than our young talent. Young players on Dallas, Phoenix and New Orleans for that matter are better. I don't think Petrie has assembled much - particularly with Williamson, Skinner, and Thomas taking up so much freaking space and offering so little for the future.

Wait until we get a glimpse at how much better Shaun Livingston is than our two young guys.

 

[4cwebb]

What bothers me is all those seasons before where the young players got no minutes, never developed and the veterans and starters wore out. I am not exactly sure what good came out of that strategy, especially when you look at what teams like San Antonio and Dallas have done with their young guys.

Difference is that those teams' young guys were drafted to fill specific needs. Spurs picked Parker b/c they needed a new PG. Mavs picked Howard b/c they didn't have an entrenched starter at SF. Both have worked out pretty well to this point. Are there others that you are referring to?

The Kings haven't yet really drafted clearly for need in a starting position. Martin wasn't needed when he was drafted --- DC was here, then Cat, and now Bonzi. Wallace and Garcia weren't/aren't really necessary, either, as both play the same position as a two-time All Star on the roster. Presumably talent in the draft wasn't readily available at the positions which were weaker than others since the Kings were drafting so low each year.

 

[4cwebb]

I agree that the young talent needs patience and time. I don't believe our youngsters are as skilled as others around the league though, or that their upside is as great. I don't see them as the future. Perhaps Garcia will become very tough, but I don't see it for Martin. He's had a year. He simply can't shoot, or defend well enough to seem a potential star.

It seems the young talent around the league is better. Felton, May, Paul, Robinson as rookies are showing much more game than our young talent. Young players on Dallas, Phoenix and New Orleans for that matter are better. I don't think Petrie has assembled much - particularly with Williamson, Skinner, and Thomas taking up so much freaking space and offering so little for the future.

Wait until we get a glimpse at how much better Shaun Livingston is than our two young guys.

Other than Nate Robinson, which one of those players was available to the Kings through the draft? The rest of those guys are lottery or near lottery picks. Kings haven't sniffed the lottery in years, although this year may change that.

 

[Ryle]

Wait until we get a glimpse at how much better Shaun Livingston is than our two young guys.

Shaun Livingston was a top 5 pick in the draft so I would assume he would be "better". Problem with him is he's only what?? 19?? and he can't even stay on the floor because he's always hurt.

I agree with what alot of people have said about the bench. In previous years Adelman would only play the vets and the young guys would sit. Now it seems like the mantra came from the top and said you have to play the rookies .

For the life of me I still can't understand why Corliss and Skinner don't play.... If you aren't going to play them then trade them..isn't that the reason why we traded Webb so we could have the "pieces" for another deal????

 

[SacDoug]

With the salary cap problems that the Kings have, I think they need to just stick with veterans on the bench. They have developed rookies over the years just to watch them leave. Why put in all the effort to develop players and then have to let them go? So we get all the inexperienced years and none of the good years from the draft picks.

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

i'll still love them even if they suck

GO KINGS!

Me too ,see my sig...

 

[Variant]

I think it's absolutely fair to criticize. Being a critic has absolutely nothing to do with one's cognizance of the team's past, or being a true fan of the current team.

In fact, in my case, getting ticked off at mistakes and lack of efforts is a sign of how passionate I am about this team. I think this goes for a lot of others as well.

I say vent a little if it helps you blow off some steam. What you say here isn't going to shatter the confidence of the bench (or the starters). They'll continue on as before. It is wise to keep in mind that this group clearly is a work in progress, but certainly nothing wrong with holding the group to a high standard. I certainly hope they're doing that to themselves.

My position: I'll rant if the Kings play without effort, I'll cheer if they play the right way. But I'll always be rooting for the team.

 

[D-Mass]

My position: I'll rant if the Kings play without effort, I'll cheer if they play the right way. But I'll always be rooting for the team.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[AriesMar27]

i dont care about how young martin or garcia are.... i usually never get upset when they make mistakes..... but petrie and adelman should have found another vet that can score to come off of the bench..... they made so many mistakes with trades last season and that is now kicking us in the rear end.... to see what was available and who was exchanged for who..... its just sad... even after the webber trade.... this offseason sam cassell was trade for jaric, why wasnt bobby offered for jaric or mobley traded to la for jaric....

im sure that no one knew that diaw would be that damn good..... but that would have been nice instead of sending picks to the bobcats for hart or sampson; or however we got sampson..... and smush parker is doing extremely well right now, he would have been a nice pick up though most of you would have been upset that he was too much like bobby.... simply keeping house would have been ideal since not even bibby is actually running our offense......

the freethrow shooting is really what had me pissed off with this game.... that and gsw shooting all of those 3's.... i didnt expect any rebounding or defense but dont let nobodys light you up from long range....

 

[Wuster]

I understand the thrust of your post VF, and essentially agree. I've been a Kings fan since 1987, so believe me I've seen it all. The one thought that comes to mind after reading your post (besides a general feeling of agreement) is that the players, staff, organization... should be held accountable for poor performance at any time that performance is not commensurate with appropriate expectations. e.g. if the team does not put out solid effort and gets blown out, I think we have a right to speak up and criticize them.

 

[Gtronic]

My position: I'll rant if the Kings play without effort, I'll cheer if they play the right way. But I'll always be rooting for the team.

Well Said

 

[VF21]

For the life of me I still can't understand why Corliss and Skinner don't play.... If you aren't going to play them then trade them..isn't that the reason why we traded Webb so we could have the "pieces" for another deal????

So you think Petrie has been turning down offers for Corliss, Skinner and/or Kenny Thomas?

It's really easy to say "TRADE!" But, just like when you're playing "Marco Polo," there has to be at least one voice willing to respond...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I got a Corliss! Who wants a Corliss?






















What am I bid for this shiny, almost-like-new Corliss?


























Somebody?


























Anybody?

 

[Bibby's Tattoo's]

I will always enjoy watching the Kings as long as they play hard and continue to play a brand of ball where the ball is shared among teammates.

I just become very frustrated when I think of how strong our bench used to be and where it is now.The bench is full of marginal NBA talent. Starting with K-mart, who still hasn't proved that he can play in this league and Price who I don't believe will be in the league after next year.

 

[FullAB]

So you think Petrie has been turning down offers for Corliss, Skinner and/or Kenny Thomas?

It's really easy to say "TRADE!" But, just like when you're playing "Marco Polo," there has to be at least one voice willing to respond...

you mean you need two people to play marco polo?....hmm.......i'll try that....it might be more fun that way.....

 

[VF21]

I will always enjoy watching the Kings as long as they play hard and continue to play a brand of ball where the ball is shared among teammates.

I just become very frustrated when I think of how strong our bench used to be and where it is now.The bench is full of marginal NBA talent. Starting with K-mart, who still hasn't proved that he can play in this league and Price who I don't believe will be in the league after next year.

And THIS is exactly the type of thing I was talking about.

The odds of ANYONE even getting to the NBA are beyond astronomical. The odds of them making it AND making it past three years are even longer than that.

Basically, you need a little faith in Geoff Petrie. If you think he knows what he's doing, then you should trust that he has picked these various players for a reason. If you don't think he knows what he's doing, then your finger of blame should be pointing at HIM and not the kids.

Give the bench a decent chance and I firmly believe we'll see improvement. We may not have future All-Stars but I think we will see some players grow and flourish.

 

[thesanityannex]

I think it's absolutely fair to criticize. Being a critic has absolutely nothing to do with one's cognizance of the team's past, or being a true fan of the current team.

What you say here isn't going to shatter the confidence of the bench (or the starters).

Absolutely agree. Why shouldn't we be able to criticize the kids? Starters, bench, it really doesn't matter who's criticized. If they suck, they suck, and it should be said. We know they have potential, but what is potential doing for us? How much more time does Martin get to show his "potential"? These "kids" have been consistently inconsistent.

 

[thesanityannex]

We may not have future All-Stars but I think we will see some players grow and flourish.

True, and by the time they have grown, they will flourish on another team.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... How much more time does Martin get to show his "potential"? These "kids" have been consistently inconsistent.

You make it sound like they're giving him 25-30 minutes a game; they aren't. They're barely giving him 16, and he's on a short leash. He hasn't really had much of any time to "show his potential."

Martin's doing fairly well, all things considered; he's better than he was last year. By the end of the season, he'll be better than he is now; by next season, he'll be better than that.

Give the kids some time; BOTH of them. People need to stop suffering from this delusion that the Kings are still an "elite" team, or contending for anything, accept that we're in a rebuilding mode, and let the young talent develop for the future.

 

[mcsluggo]

Except that the young "talent" has a top potential upside as "decent pieces"

Unless I am wrong (and that would SURELY be the first time ) At best the kings youngsters will be "solid", there isn't anyone with potential to be anything approaching a cornerstone. Basically if we are lucky, and they develop well, they are good enough to some day to not be embarassing as #3 to #5 starter on a decent team. That is not much to hang the future on.

 

[thesanityannex]

You make it sound like they're giving him 25-30 minutes a game; they aren't. They're barely giving him 16, and he's on a short leash. He hasn't really had much of any time to "show his potential."

Martin's doing fairly well, all things considered; he's better than he was last year. By the end of the season, he'll be better than he is now; by next season, he'll be better than that.

Give the kids some time; BOTH of them. People need to stop suffering from this delusion that the Kings are still an "elite" team, or contending for anything, accept that we're in a rebuilding mode, and let the young talent develop for the future.

I just expect a lot more from both of the first round picks, regardless of minutes played. Show me a quality 16 minute outing each night and you'll get no complaints from me. Airballs and bricked shots? Cmon, this isn't highschool ball anymore. And like I said before, when the finally do develop, they will be shipped off like all the other talents we've had.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I just expect a lot more from both of the first round picks, regardless of minutes played...

Based on what? Exactly what standard are you holding these kids to? It's not like they were taken in the lottery or something. Martin and Garcia were taken with the 26th and 23rd picks of their respective drafts, not exactly two position known for being a hotbed of NBA talent... Statistics say that if either of these guys are still in the league after three years, they'll be ahead of the curve, so can we stop acting like they're supposed to be some kind of saviors?

Like Doc said, given time to develop, they could both be as good as a #3-#5 on a good team, or possibly as good as a #2 on a bad team. Quite frankly, I think that's worth developing. They don't have to become "stars" to make developing them worth the time; frankly, if you can get a star with the 26th pick, that means that 25 other GM's were asleep at the wheel.