Would Warriors trade No. 2 pick for Kings' Marvin Bagley? Could make sense

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#31
https://sports.yahoo.com/why-hypothetical-kings-hawks-buddy-014450397.html?src=rss

So Hawks fans think 6 for 12 pick swap and salary dump enough for Buddy?

Even Ham suggested either Huerter or Reddish to us and we send a 2nd

Personally I think We should send 2 second rd picks, and Buddy for 6thth pick and Reddish

Yes I would do that deal
I’ve been banging that drum loudly. Include Reddish or Hunter if we Are talking Buddy and 6. They need to give back more than a pick but we keep 12 and add our earliest 2nd round pick.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#32
But if we give them our two lower 2nd rd picks #35 and #43 instead of our #12 pick , maybe that is ok?

buddy, #35, #43 for Reddish and #6

Hey #6 in a weak draft, and a disappointing Rookie for 3 Point NBA Champion and 2 young 2nd picks?

Fox,Cojo
James
Barnes, Reddish
Bagley, Bjelly,Parker
Holmes

Draft #6 PG Hayes,#12 SF Bey
FA 4 of : Bogie,Basemore,Giles,Len,Jeffries,,Guy
Probably not. I don't know how they value Reddish but he was a top 10 pick in a better draft than this and if the deal is straight across the Hawks will look at that salary dump as the added incentive. The Hawks are in a terrific position right now considering who knows what the cap threshold will look like moving forward. If the Kings do this deal though it has to be the first in a series of moves. They have to shave off some of Barnes' deal some way. Then find a home for Holmes, Joseph, and Bjelica if he stays and let those FA's go bye bye with the exception of the cheap ones.
 
#34
What's the fascination with Cam Reddish?
I don't think I'm fascinated by Reddish, but he's got the whole package to become a great player. Right now, he's the 10th pick in last year's draft and was a bit of a disappointment in his rookie season. That only makes him more gettable for us.
 
#35
I don't think I'm fascinated by Reddish, but he's got the whole package to become a great player. Right now, he's the 10th pick in last year's draft and was a bit of a disappointment in his rookie season. That only makes him more gettable for us.
Did you see his numbers as Duke as well? I'd attempt to get someone else or trade with another team if Cam Reddish is supposed to be the cherry on top.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#36
Did you see his numbers as Duke as well? I'd attempt to get someone else or trade with another team if Cam Reddish is supposed to be the cherry on top.
Reddish's numbers have never matched the eye test on him. Perhaps the numbers never come around, but don't forget he was on a stacked Duke team with Zion and R.J. Barrett and was putting those up as a #3 option. The only thing is that the shooting percentages aren't there. When I watch him I see a guy who looks like a starting caliber wing, with potential for top-half starting caliber wing, but the shot's gotta start falling.

If you're trying to put together a deal like this, and you're looking for some sweetener because otherwise you're getting the short end of the stick, Reddish is exactly the kind of sweetener we'd be willing to take a chance on and Atlanta might be willing to part with. I feel like the attitude here is less "we should go find a way to get Reddish" and more "if this is the deal, they'd better give us Reddish".
 
#37
Reddish reminds me of Skal. Highly rated coming out of high school and has all the physical tool and talent but not sure if they will put it together
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#38
Reddish reminds me of Skal. Highly rated coming out of high school and has all the physical tool and talent but not sure if they will put it together
Maybe but the difference is Skal was a PF that needed to play C in a body that couldn't pull it off. Vlade always seemed to have a knack for overlooking the true size/positional/athletic tools/eye test guys and instead went straight for skill. It didn't pan out most of the time. Reddish has all the potential at a position worth taking that gamble on if you're dumping a player that you've done everything in your power to diminish from day 1.
 
#39
Bagley doesn't have this kind of value. The pick is also small potatoes; once you're dealing with picks that high its a tall order to even move up a few spots.

Organizations don't trade Top 3 picks for depreciated 3rd year prospects on the fast track to becoming a bust. They'd usually much rather take a chance on the mystery box. This was also just some musings from a Warriors beat writer; I doubt the organization is seriously considering this.

Especially since this is the team that exploded after they cut out a Bagley-type big. He has no use to a team trying to get back into contention and they wouldn't use him.
It’s simple Bagley doesn’t have trade value and this draft sucks anyways
 
#40
I’m easily doing Buddy/12 for 6/Huerter they won’t give up Reddish. Huerter Is a very good shooter and at 3.8apg last year he’s showing he can pass the ball something buddy can’t do. Also Huerter is 21 and just finished his second year Buddy is 27 and is delusional about his talents. Take the trade and run don’t look back don’t think about it. This is a now brainer trade one where you thank your lucky stars.

and why in the world would Atlantan want a young/Hield backcourt
 
#42
One consideration is that who ever is making the call on draft day likely won’t have been in charge for very long (or could even still be Dumars in a caretaker role). Given that it’s supposedly a stronger draft, I’d rather see if the team could land a 2021 pick instead of one this season, if that’s what’s out there for Buddy. I imagine everyone is trying to hold on to those picks, though.
 
#43
Buddy for 6/Huerter or 6/Reddish is a deal we should think about if we intend to move Buddy. If Atlanta asks us to throw in the 12, that's a straight instant no.
why?

Buddy is 7 years older than both Huerter and Reddish and is extremely overpaid. We’d also have a chance at Deni if we moved up too 6 where as at 12 the player options went as good
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#45
why?

Buddy is 7 years older than both Huerter and Reddish and is extremely overpaid. We’d also have a chance at Deni if we moved up too 6 where as at 12 the player options went as good
Buddy has an elite skill (3 pt shooting) that is currently in high demand in the league and he's under control for four years. His contract is declining so he's not as "overpaid" as he looks. And, despite your focus on his age (BTW, he's 5.75 years older than Huerter and 6.75 years older than Reddish - I can see rounding 6.75 to 7, but not 5.75) he's in the prime of his career. Trading Buddy for a young kid that hasn't done anything yet and a move of 6 slots in a draft without strength at the top is a horrible idea (in normal draft, the expected extra value at #6 relative to #12 is about 1.3x). You're not getting anywhere near enough back.

Again, if you've decided to rebuild (again) then Buddy for #6 and a kid makes some sense. Buddy + #12 for #6 and a kid is a massive, massive overpay. If I recall correctly, you're one of the folks who have bemoaned the basketball fan community at large considering the Kings front office as stupid. Trading Buddy to move up 6 spots in a weak draft would NOT help that.
 
#46
I’ll say it, people giving up on Bagley already is wack
I agree with you from a talent perspective. Bagley had himself some great games when healthy and looked like the kind of player who could turn into a 25ppg double double machine (although whether or not these gaudy numbers would actually lead to wins with his skill/set lack of defense is another conversation).

But will he ever STAY healthy? Every time he hits the court he ends up stubbing his toe or something and that leads to him being out for 4 months.

Tricky gamble. Without the health issues I'd laugh at the idea of trading Bagley for the #2 in a weak draft. But who knows if we'll ever get more than 20 games a year out of him. The health problems are a MAJOR concern.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#47
Buddy has an elite skill (3 pt shooting) that is currently in high demand in the league and he's under control for four years. His contract is declining so he's not as "overpaid" as he looks. And, despite your focus on his age (BTW, he's 5.75 years older than Huerter and 6.75 years older than Reddish - I can see rounding 6.75 to 7, but not 5.75) he's in the prime of his career. Trading Buddy for a young kid that hasn't done anything yet and a move of 6 slots in a draft without strength at the top is a horrible idea (in normal draft, the expected extra value at #6 relative to #12 is about 1.3x). You're not getting anywhere near enough back.

Again, if you've decided to rebuild (again) then Buddy for #6 and a kid makes some sense. Buddy + #12 for #6 and a kid is a massive, massive overpay. If I recall correctly, you're one of the folks who have bemoaned the basketball fan community at large considering the Kings front office as stupid. Trading Buddy to move up 6 spots in a weak draft would NOT help that.
Trading Buddy with those things considered is stupid, but so is what we've seen done to Buddy on the floor. His value is clearly going to be diminished so that has to factor in any potential deal. In the end, trading Buddy isn't the answer and for it to make ANY sense would have to be merely a singular move that kicks off a chain of events in terms of a 3-4 year rebuild plan. Those are things you have to judge in totality. For instance Vlade got some credit for clearing the Kings cap up but look what he did with it. He shot for the moon and decided to blow it on fit pieces sometimes 3-4 deep in bodies already then rush to clean it up as best he could (which is a great sign from a GM BTW). I think he did the right thing holding onto that space and giving himself a chance to make deadline deals the prior offseason. I really hoped he had done the same thing this last offseason and while there is no excuse for the misuse we saw he trusted someone to run his team that didn't have the rep and it turns out coaching chops to make it work. Now the Kings have two choices. Find the right guy to make these pieces work or start heading back down the ladder. Personally I'd go for the right guy since the Kings are already towards the back end of the contracts their rookie core has. Find the coach that can make these players shine and if they just can't win regardless then at least you've built some freaking value from that shine.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#48
I agree with you from a talent perspective. Bagley had himself some great games when healthy and looked like the kind of player who could turn into a 25ppg double double machine (although whether or not these gaudy numbers would actually lead to wins with his skill/set lack of defense is another conversation).

But will he ever STAY healthy? Every time he hits the court he ends up stubbing his toe or something and that leads to him being out for 4 months.

Tricky gamble. Without the health issues I'd laugh at the idea of trading Bagley for the #2 in a weak draft. But who knows if we'll ever get more than 20 games a year out of him. The health problems are a MAJOR concern.
At least it's not one major thing that keeps reoccurring. Next year will likely put the stamp on him being the next Bowie or not.
 
#49
Buddy has an elite skill (3 pt shooting) that is currently in high demand in the league and he's under control for four years. His contract is declining so he's not as "overpaid" as he looks. And, despite your focus on his age (BTW, he's 5.75 years older than Huerter and 6.75 years older than Reddish - I can see rounding 6.75 to 7, but not 5.75) he's in the prime of his career. Trading Buddy for a young kid that hasn't done anything yet and a move of 6 slots in a draft without strength at the top is a horrible idea (in normal draft, the expected extra value at #6 relative to #12 is about 1.3x). You're not getting anywhere near enough back.

Again, if you've decided to rebuild (again) then Buddy for #6 and a kid makes some sense. Buddy + #12 for #6 and a kid is a massive, massive overpay. If I recall correctly, you're one of the folks who have bemoaned the basketball fan community at large considering the Kings front office as stupid. Trading Buddy to move up 6 spots in a weak draft would NOT help that.
Yes buddy is an elite shooter but his defense is extremely bad, has character problems (not accepting a bench role), has a low basketball IQ, and can’t guard any position. Most importantly we ain’t winning crap with a Fix/Buddy backcourt.

Huerter is a very good shooter yes he’s not buddy but he shot 38% on 6 attempts that’s very good. Teams aren’t leaving him and he’ll command respect from 3. Huerter is also more versatile on offense he is able to dribble the ball and play make a little evident by his 3.8apg despite Trae being ball dominate.

I don’t get why giving up 12 is such a big deal when we’re getting the sixth pick. At 6 we have a chance to get Deni Avdija which is a homerun. Other players we’d be able to get are Obi Toppin, Okoro, and Vassell.
 
#51
A lie

his rookie season was fine and he had bad luck in the second year. So what? Didnt Blake Griffin miss his entire rookie year? Even Embiid missed his first TWO years if i recall.
Ya and when they played they flashed franchise potential, Bagley flashed 3rd option potential
 
#52
Reddish's numbers have never matched the eye test on him. Perhaps the numbers never come around, but don't forget he was on a stacked Duke team with Zion and R.J. Barrett and was putting those up as a #3 option. The only thing is that the shooting percentages aren't there. When I watch him I see a guy who looks like a starting caliber wing, with potential for top-half starting caliber wing, but the shot's gotta start falling.

If you're trying to put together a deal like this, and you're looking for some sweetener because otherwise you're getting the short end of the stick, Reddish is exactly the kind of sweetener we'd be willing to take a chance on and Atlanta might be willing to part with. I feel like the attitude here is less "we should go find a way to get Reddish" and more "if this is the deal, they'd better give us Reddish".
That's the scary thing. He shot a ridiculously low field goal percentage as the 3rd option. I didn't see a guy who put up numbers as the 3rd option. I saw a guy that shot a lot and wasn't very good at basketball. I think Cam is just living off his high school hype. At least Cole Anthony was inefficient as the first option, so he was taking the difficult shots. Cam was missing wide open shots while defenses were focused on Zion and RJ. I've been extremely disappointed with him and haven't seen him do much of anything on the court that's made me think he's going to be a good player. You have to look all the way back to high school for that.

I get sweetening the pot but they might as well just have Atlanta send them a bunch of lottery tickets because that's about the same odds as Reddish becoming a good player IMO.
 
#53
Who are we trying to get at #6? I can understand trading up if you're targeting a specific player, but why would you do that in this draft.

Hopefully the GM who makes these decisions does more than shuffle bodies and numbers, because I'm not even sure trading Buddy is necessary at this point.
 
#54
Who are we trying to get at #6? I can understand trading up if you're targeting a specific player, but why would you do that in this draft.

Hopefully the GM who makes these decisions does more than shuffle bodies and numbers, because I'm not even sure trading Buddy is necessary at this point.
That's my question with all these trade up scenarios. Avdija is likely taken by either the Bulls or Cavs but if he isn't, I don't see star potential there. He reminds me of Turkoglu maybe with better defense but worse shooting. Or maybe a more athletic Saric. I have serious doubts that he'll ever be a good outside shooter and without that (and lacking high end athleticism) I don't know how he's ever more than a role player.

Vassel reminds me of Doug Christie and could be a nice piece next to Fox but again, does anyone think he'll be a star? In this draft I wouldn't even be surprised if he fell to 12 anyway. I think Nesmith will end up being a better player long term and most mocks have him in the 10-14 range.

I'm not opposed to tearing this team down completely for a rebuild (whether keeping or trading Fox) but this is NOT the draft that I'd push a lot of chips into.
 
#55
At least it's not one major thing that keeps reoccurring. Next year will likely put the stamp on him being the next Bowie or not.
This is true, but it's so many LITTLE things.. And they always seem to keep him out longer than you'd think.

I do hope he stays healthy next season. I'm definitely not rooting for Bagley to fail or anything. In fact, a healthy Bagley would go a long way in reviving my tepid interest in this sorry franchise.
 
#56
So as Clutch Points article says we have to fire Luke or Trade Buddy. Dumars needs to get the 12th pick, threaten to fire Luke If he does not start Buddy, match Bogie offer and be cheap in FA, showcase Buddy until trade deadline, Get new GM, have new GM trade Buddy for high pick in 2021 Draft, fire Luke, tank 2020-21, get another high pick in 2021 Draft

now we have two good picks next year in a better draft and Bogie as SG
 
#57
So as Clutch Points article says we have to fire Luke or Trade Buddy. Dumars needs to get the 12th pick, threaten to fire Luke If he does not start Buddy, match Bogie offer and be cheap in FA, showcase Buddy until trade deadline, Get new GM, have new GM trade Buddy for high pick in 2021 Draft, fire Luke, tank 2020-21, get another high pick in 2021 Draft

now we have two good picks next year in a better draft and Bogie as SG
nobody is trading 2021 picks unless there in the 20’s
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#58
So as Clutch Points article says we have to fire Luke or Trade Buddy. Dumars needs to get the 12th pick, threaten to fire Luke If he does not start Buddy, match Bogie offer and be cheap in FA, showcase Buddy until trade deadline, Get new GM, have new GM trade Buddy for high pick in 2021 Draft, fire Luke, tank 2020-21, get another high pick in 2021 Draft

now we have two good picks next year in a better draft and Bogie as SG
If Buddy were Waltons only issue I'd understand the either/or thing, but my goodness Waltons thought process that led to the misuse of almost every player is staggering. Then the blank stare as it all came crashing down in almost every game during the bubble stay. Then Fox pretty much blasting the random stuff being directed from the coaching chair. That's beyond the fact that they just fired the GM that handpicked him without even holding any other interviews really. There is no conversation if you do not fire the coach you're just wasting time like they did with Karl. Sure, there's an off chance the GM could be in love with Luke Walton or they pick a GM that likes him. That's about the only way this can work. In the end Walton isn't some HOF level coach so you'd have to question the person figuring that as the best course.
 
#59
This is true, but it's so many LITTLE things.. And they always seem to keep him out longer than you'd think.

I do hope he stays healthy next season. I'm definitely not rooting for Bagley to fail or anything. In fact, a healthy Bagley would go a long way in reviving my tepid interest in this sorry franchise.
I think you have to ride with him. If they trade him and he reaches his potential, fuuuuuuudddddddgggggge.
 
#60
I would like to see how a different coach handles Buddy before he is traded.

IMO you hang on to Bagley and restrict his minutes and Pray he avoids injuries.