Woj: Kings, Mike Brown table contract discussions, far apart on deal

[SacTownKid]

It's very easy to spend somebody else's money.

Yep, and as fans it's easy to expect deep pockets when the team you paid 500 million for is now worth...ahem... quite a bit more, lol. For anyone else that doesn't hold a huge percentage of that equity swallowing 30 million might mean something though.

 

[SacTownKid]

The difference between an amazing season and an average season was two wins. The average season was the sixth best in Sacramento era Kings history. It’s fair to be disappointed but we should be realistic here.

Yeah, can't get too far up or down but the realistic thought process moving forward is probably looking at the league more like as it did in years past. Even getting into the playoffs might a 48-50 win threshold again. Last season looks like it might have been a gap year with a team like Denver winning and a 48 win team being top 3. Three teams in the Mavs, Lakers, and Suns all brought older but proven stars into their squards and so far it's yielded the result of all 3 teams being above the Kings since and 2 of the 3 in the WCF or potentially the Finals. Those trades augmented things without question. It's not the wins and losses, it's the pecking order. You're only as good as the competition around you if you aren't one of those top teams setting the bar. The Kings could be that as is in a hot shooting year, but no way is Monte going to approach it that way if he's actually trying to win big.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, can't get too far up or down but the realistic thought process moving forward is probably looking at the league more like as it did in years past. Even getting into the playoffs might a 48-50 win threshold again. Last season looks like it might have been a gap year with a team like Denver winning and a 48 win team being top 3. Three teams in the Mavs, Lakers, and Suns all brought older but proven stars into their squards and so far it's yielded the result of all 3 teams being above the Kings since and 2 of the 3 in the WCF or potentially the Finals. Those trades augmented things without question. It's not the wins and losses, it's the pecking order. You're only as good as the competition around you if you aren't one of those top teams setting the bar. The Kings could be that as is in a hot shooting year, but no way is Monte going to approach it that way if he's actually trying to win big.

46 wins historically got you into the playoffs. Tied for third best record all time to miss. And none of the other years involved the play in. So looking at things historically we’re in good shape. It’s possible the lack of excitement surrounding the draft lead more teams to attempt to make it.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

46 wins historically got you into the playoffs. Tied for third best record all time to miss. And none of the other years involved the play in. So looking at things historically we’re in good shape. It’s possible the lack of excitement surrounding the draft lead more teams to attempt to make it.

Good shape for what? A possible 7th or 8th seed?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Good shape for what? A possible 7th or 8th seed?

We should regularly contend for 4-6 with this core. I’d be happy with that.

 

[SLAB]

Good shape for what? A possible 7th or 8th seed?

16 years without playoffs makes any success look amazing I guess.

 

[ick300]

The difference between an amazing season and an average season was two wins. The average season was the sixth best in Sacramento era Kings history. It’s fair to be disappointed but we should be realistic here.

That is why I called it average mate , it was not disappointed , not at all
I understand that in 19 out of another 20 season this score will be enough for top 6 place , but in that particular season it was not .. .
And when you drop 15+ games in which you led by 15 and more points at one point hurts even more ...
So maybe at this point for this King's team Mike Brown might be the best scenario , but this does not mean you should jump into new long term contract ...
Stay calm , see what pre-season he will make , how the season will start , where the team will be in the begining of the second half of 2025 season and then decide what ot do with contracts ( IF you are owner of course ... )
With it's pottential this team has to play a final in West at least (my opinion)
If Brown is the man , he will show it , if not , you can not afford loosing 3/4 more year on him , cause you will loose the momentum of Fox/Sabonis duo as well ...

 

[coolhandluke]

Of course Vivek doesn’t get it’s a roster issue largely brought on by his constant short term thinking.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794780530766119132

Huh, what? Sabonis is, by far, the most impactful reliable player on the Kings.

 

[Caccia]

Huh, what? Sabonis is, by far, the most impactful reliable player on the Kings.

Sabonis had a PIE of 16.9. Next best was Fox at 12.8. According to BasketballReference, their respective PER numbers were 23.2 and 20.1 Sabonis led the entire NBA in rebounding per game. He played in every single game. The guy deserves a Superman jersey.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

16 years without playoffs makes any success look amazing I guess.

I want to go to a Kings game and root for a win because it matters, gets us into playoff contention where anything can happen. Yes, Pacers just got swept but we could have had a run like that with the right seeding.

 

[The_Jamal]

For those of you who want Brown replaced:

With whom? Why aren't you considering the vast negative effects this puts on our franchise looking like a wet goose, once again? Why do you want to throw all the good will and rebuilt reputation we've done in the past 2 years with more nonsense like this?

People think I'm using this as an excuse but it's reality; we're the Sacramento Kings. Quality almost never walks through the door. We're damn lucky right now where we have 2 of the best players in franchise history (Fox and Domas) and one of the best coaches in franchise history (Brown) are all together at one time. We basically never get opportunities to put together a winner...and we have one right now. Why blow it?

 

[SLAB]

For those of you who want Brown replaced:

With whom? Why aren't you considering the vast negative effects this puts on our franchise looking like a wet goose, once again? Why do you want to throw all the good will and rebuilt reputation we've done in the past 2 years with more nonsense like this?

People think I'm using this as an excuse but it's reality; we're the Sacramento Kings. Quality almost never walks through the door. We're damn lucky right now where we have 2 of the best players in franchise history (Fox and Domas) and one of the best coaches in franchise history (Brown) are all together at one time. We basically never get opportunities to put together a winner...and we have one right now. Why blow it?

I don’t want him replaced. I just don’t think he’s earned any more than 3 years. Year one was fantastic. Year two wasn’t. If he thrives in year three, give him 5+ years. But if he needs it now, I don’t see the rational to a super-long term extension.

Do something like 3 / 40. The money for the coach never matters to me, so put him in the upper echelon of coach pay, if we ascend we build off this extension in seasons ahead no questions asked, but if we’re pretenders moving forward we aren’t anchored down for the long-long haul.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don’t want him replaced. I just don’t think he’s earned any more than 3 years. Year one was fantastic. Year two wasn’t. If he thrives in year three, give him 5+ years. But if he needs it now, I don’t see the rational to a super-long term extension.

You’re comfortable with him being on the open market next year, possibly feeling slighted and no loyalty from the Kings?

Like what if he goes to the WCF or deeper without a contract?

 

[SLAB]

You’re comfortable with him being on the open market next year, possibly feeling slighted and no loyalty from the Kings?

Like what if he goes to the WCF or deeper without a contract?

I added a part two to my response as you were posting.

Unless Monte gets really creative I have a hard time seeing the Kings make the WCF, I’d take the risk of the shorter-term high-money “prove-it” extension. If he bets on himself with that on the table, all the power to him.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I added a part two to my response as you were posting.

Unless Monte gets really creative I have a hard time seeing the Kings make the WCF, I’d take the risk of the shorter-term high-money “prove-it” extension. If he bets on himself with that on the table, all the power to him.

I’d like to see a reworked 3 year deal with a raise to 10 mil per and Kings only option in year 3. He gets immediate gratification and no lame duck status but team has to progress. I think we were all fine with the originally reported 4 year deal and this is little more than solidifying that.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I feel like this is the bed Vivek/Monte made with that mutual option and now they have to sleep in it. He’s a good coach with the record to back it up. He motivates his players, he holds them accountable and he knows when to step aside and let others take the lead on things (players and assistant coaches). Just pay him and live with the results.

I really wish we knew what the “gulf” is. If the years is the problem are we talking one year difference or 3? I could see some hesitation on a 5 year deal for example.

 

[upinsmoke]

Let him play out his contract and anything less than a wcf appearance then you let DC take over.

 

[kingsboi]

"Spray 3s", Fox taking his usual 1.5 months off mid season, and the general lack of mental toughness on the roster sunk our season.

But the dialogue makes it seem like we were a complete disaster, when one or two more wins could have seen us with a favorable first round match up and making it to the semis at the least.

The defense was improving, Keon was a revelation, I'm still a Keegan believer, maybe next year Fox won't take 1.5 months off.... but we gotta have continuity (and less goddamn spray 3s, **** spray 3s)!

watching the team chuck 40 to 50 three's in a game made me nauseous

 

[GWD]

OPINION:
Brown is nothing special. Specifically numerating his "great" coaching talents seems to elude his loyal fans. However, the Kings players ARE special and their skills have been frequently discussed herein.

The Kings are a winning team because of the players and their performance. The key is to maximize the performance, improve year-to-year, and put a system in place that recognizes the team's skills. Brown could do that. That is why he has another one year to prove his ability to produce a solid system with improved results.

Remember that Brown sat on the Warriors' bench and no team was willing to give him another position at head coach until the Kings were desperate to replace Walton.

Brown has had two years with this exceptional group of players. Both years resulted in nearly the same record. A third year of such a record would show no progress on what Brown has to offer. It is time for him to "put up".

The hype about Sacramento being a dead-end destination is overblown. Available players do want to win, but moreover, they want the cash. They will come. Monk will be a bellwether on this point.

As far as a head coaching prospect, it is a matter of system as well as teaching skills, personality, and leadership. Just like Keon Ellis, you don't know until you try.

 

[Warhawk]

OPINION:
Brown is nothing special. Specifically numerating his "great" coaching talents seems to elude his loyal fans. However, the Kings players ARE special and their skills have been frequently discussed herein.

The Kings are a winning team because of the players and their performance. The key is to maximize the performance, improve year-to-year, and put a system in place that recognizes the team's skills. Brown could do that. That is why he has another one year to prove his ability to produce a solid system with improved results.

Remember that Brown sat on the Warriors' bench and no team was willing to give him another position at head coach until the Kings were desperate to replace Walton.

Brown has had two years with this exceptional group of players. Both years resulted in nearly the same record. A third year of such a record would show no progress on what Brown has to offer. It is time for him to "put up".

The hype about Sacramento being a dead-end destination is overblown. Available players do want to win, but moreover, they want the cash. They will come. Monk will be a bellwether on this point.

As far as a head coaching prospect, it is a matter of system as well as teaching skills, personality, and leadership. Just like Keon Ellis, you don't know until you try.

You are actually arguing, and I agree, that this is more of a roster problem than a coaching problem. Essentially the same roster (good, but not "exceptional") and the essentially same record both years, with a #3 seed and a play-in seed. Last year we did very well against almost all the West's playoff teams. That says more about the craziness in the West vs. inability of a coach. We've seen player improvement and development, loyalty from the players, and have a united FO and coaching staff.

Give Brown at least 2-3 more years at market rate, guaranteed, and fix the roster. Then let's see where this goes.

Brown is far from perfect, but nobody has been able to actually provide a list of coaches who are better than Brown, are available, and would coach the Kings. It's easy to call for Brown's head (or to just leave him dangling in a lame-duck year in yet another sign of a historically dysfunctional ownership group), but unless you have Spo or Pop ready, willing, and able to take over, you don't swap out the coach when he's had 2 of the best 6 seasons in Sacramento Kings history in his first 2 years on the job (with a +10 winning record or better). And we all agree this roster needs some help. Keep the pretty good coach, fix the roster, then re-evaluate after a couple of years.

 

[dude12]

What some people don’t get is that most people who want Brown to stay, recognize a good job he has done and give him credit for doing so. These yahoos then take that as “loyal and love for Coach Brown” which is not the case but more a recognizing that the man has done a remarkable job in turning around the franchise with consecutive years of a good record. Replacing him would be dumb. Not giving him credit is weird. Brown is a coach who can take this team deep into the playoffs. I mean, Jason Kidd has his team knocking on the door to the championship. Brown will get signed, and the team will make progress in the playoffs as the roster is tweaked.

 

[ESP47]

This is a non story. Like any price negotiation, someone wants to make a ton of money on the deal and the other person wants to pay as little as possible. If you don't start the negotiation far apart, you aren't doing it right.

 

[SacTownKid]

46 wins historically got you into the playoffs. Tied for third best record all time to miss. And none of the other years involved the play in. So looking at things historically we’re in good shape. It’s possible the lack of excitement surrounding the draft lead more teams to attempt to make it.

Yeah, but barely on the cusp and usually first round fodder in years that mimic what things are starting to look like in the West. And this is a new era of the play in. It's a different game now which plays into that stat so it's actually somewhat false in historical context. There is also what appears to be a really solid upper crust forming. I don't think Monte is wanting his team to be 6-8 in the deck. Nobody really does. However, sitting or making the wrong move can keep your team there. It happens all the time.

 

[SacTownKid]

Let him play out his contract and anything less than a wcf appearance then you let DC take over.

Eh, I'm not sure that's an option. This type of thing can do more locker room damage then put a fire under someones butt. Brown certainly doesn't need fire, dudes all in, every single game if anything. Like with Monk's contract status its rubber meets the road time. The good thing is unlike with a player contract, a coaching contract doesn't actually diminish a teams ability to build a legit roster of talent if it fails. Vivek just swallows more coaching dollars.

 

[The_Jamal]

OPINION:
Brown is nothing special. Specifically numerating his "great" coaching talents seems to elude his loyal fans. However, the Kings players ARE special and their skills have been frequently discussed herein.

The Kings are a winning team because of the players and their performance. The key is to maximize the performance, improve year-to-year, and put a system in place that recognizes the team's skills. Brown could do that. That is why he has another one year to prove his ability to produce a solid system with improved results.

Remember that Brown sat on the Warriors' bench and no team was willing to give him another position at head coach until the Kings were desperate to replace Walton.

Brown has had two years with this exceptional group of players. Both years resulted in nearly the same record. A third year of such a record would show no progress on what Brown has to offer. It is time for him to "put up".

The hype about Sacramento being a dead-end destination is overblown. Available players do want to win, but moreover, they want the cash. They will come. Monk will be a bellwether on this point.

As far as a head coaching prospect, it is a matter of system as well as teaching skills, personality, and leadership. Just like Keon Ellis, you don't know until you try.

Please answer the question.

Lets pretend Kings end with 48 wins next season. Brown is let go. Who are you replacing him with? Can you even give 2-3 names that would be an upgrade?


I don't understand the notion of making Brown coach for his job, when he's far exceeded expectations for our organization. It's just a silly argument. You reward your talent (and yes, coaching counts here), when they perform and do well. You don't force them to continue to prove it in a lame duck year and then guess what? They're pissed and they move on. Just like you wouldn't force Fox to play for an extension? Right?

So what if we do go make a WCF appearance next season? What if Brown tells us to kick rocks and gets a new job at the money he wants? What happens in that scenario?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I've done a full "cleanup" on the thread (yes it was only a few posts). I'm holding all y'all to a higher standard. This isn't Twitter or Reddit or whatever.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I don't understand the notion of making Brown coach for his job, when he's far exceeded expectations for our organization. It's just a silly argument. You reward your talent (and yes, coaching counts here), when they perform and do well. You don't force them to continue to prove it in a lame duck year and then guess what? They're pissed and they move on. Just like you wouldn't force Fox to play for an extension? Right?

So what if we do go make a WCF appearance next season? What if Brown tells us to kick rocks and gets a new job at the money he wants? What happens in that scenario?

Winning 46 and 48 games and making no inroads in the playoffs is "far exceeding expectations"? Only if you have very minimal expectations of simply having a better than .500 record, because the team had a losing record for a long time. Makes me wonder where the bar is set for just a passing grade, if this is what's considered "far exceeding".

Setting rather minimal expectations based on what happened years ago, with different coaches, players, and a different GM, is a mediocre mentality

 

[GWD]

What some people don’t get is that most people who want Brown to stay, recognize a good job he has done and give him credit for doing so. These yahoos then take that as “loyal and love for Coach Brown” which is not the case but more a recognizing that the man has done a remarkable job in turning around the franchise with consecutive years of a good record. Replacing him would be dumb. Not giving him credit is weird. Brown is a coach who can take this team deep into the playoffs. I mean, Jason Kidd has his team knocking on the door to the championship. Brown will get signed, and the team will make progress in the playoffs as the roster is tweaked.

It is obvious that you favor Coach Brown, and that is well and good. What is not obvious is what specific coaching skills, playing system innovations, and unique abilities have enabled Coach Brown to "lead" the team to a couple of winning records, or in your words, "turning around the franchise".

Others would note that Brown's arrival coincided with the arrival of a considerable influx of talented players and the off-season (pre-Brown) development of others. The appearance of Brown and the improvement of the Kings may have been happenstance rather than coaching genius. He has one year to prove that he is more a genius rather than a hindrance to further Kings' progress. It appears that the management of the Kings agree...and they have far more insight and knowledge of the situation than members of a forum.

 

[TaxMan]

It is obvious that you favor Coach Brown, and that is well and good. What is not obvious is what specific coaching skills, playing system innovations, and unique abilities have enabled Coach Brown to "lead" the team to a couple of winning records, or in your words, "turning around the franchise".

Others would note that Brown's arrival coincided with the arrival of a considerable influx of talented players and the off-season (pre-Brown) development of others. The appearance of Brown and the improvement of the Kings may have been happenstance rather than coaching genius. He has one year to prove that he is more a genius rather than a hindrance to further Kings' progress. It appears that the management of the Kings agree...and they have far more insight and knowledge of the situation than members of a forum.

Coaching is a combination of a whole heck of a lot of different skill types. Interpersonal skills, communication, setting expectations, team prep, offensive strategy, defensive strategy, in game adjustments, substitution patterns, etc. etc. etc. I would personally argue there are only a handful of coaches in the league that checks off the majority of these boxes, and even then I suspect fans have complaints and differences of opinion.

Outside of those handful of clearly superior coaches, I would say there is a layer of really good coaches that contribute to success, but also benefit from some lucky breaks/coaching a great team situation. These guys often win coach of the year. You definitely want to retain these coaches, but their time will come that you probably need to move on to get a new voice in the organization. I would suggest Coach Brown is clearly in this second category and I see no reason to think after only two years (or even four or five) the time has come to move on. You can argue he has his fair share of "right place at the right time", but objectively speaking he has a top 25 coaching win percentage all time (.604) in over 700 games coached. That doesn't just happen totally by accident.

 

[GWD]

Please answer the question.

Lets pretend Kings end with 48 wins next season. Brown is let go. Who are you replacing him with? Can you even give 2-3 names that would be an upgrade?


I don't understand the notion of making Brown coach for his job, when he's far exceeded expectations for our organization. It's just a silly argument. You reward your talent (and yes, coaching counts here), when they perform and do well. You don't force them to continue to prove it in a lame duck year and then guess what? They're pissed and they move on. Just like you wouldn't force Fox to play for an extension? Right?

So what if we do go make a WCF appearance next season? What if Brown tells us to kick rocks and gets a new job at the money he wants? What happens in that scenario?

Pretending is not real. It is management's responsibility to interview, evaluate, and hire a replacement head coach that fits their vision for the Kings. After all, that is how Coach Brown was hired from a list of eligible talent. Speculation is not much better than pretending.

Brown shouldn't "coach for his job" is an amusing statement. Of course he should, that is what he does and how he is evaluated. Players must play for their jobs. Executives must produce for their jobs. Cheerleaders must cheer (perform) to keep their jobs. Each and every job must "continue to prove" their worth lest they become a burden. That is the world of performance arts.

The players produced wins in Brown's first season. It was a newly-formed team, due to Monte's (EOY) maneuvering, and Brown stumbled into a talent-filled group of players. Commenters are still challenged to enumerate the specifics of Brown's unique coaching talents that lifted the team from the years of being in the doldrums with less talented players.

If Brown leaves, for whatever reason, obviously there will be a replacement. He/she may be slightly better at team production or may be slightly worse. He/she will be subject to the same scrutiny that Coach Brown has endured, be it positive or negative. It goes with the position.