Willie Cauley-Stein: the 2018-19 Season watch

[Kingster]

Don’t overreact tonight when WCS outplays Jokic. Outside of AD, WCS is Jokic’s worse match up. They’re both too quick for him.

If elevation was not a factor, I think the Kings win the game. Kings match up well with Denver, outside of the 3 spot.

It sure seems like WCS should have his way with the Joker inside on offense, but the Joker may have his way with WCS on offense also. It's going to be very interesting. The Kings must stay close to the Nuggets in rebounding. The Kings' are currently 27th in the league in rebounding (40.7), while the Nuggets are 4th (52.3).

 

[Livinthedream]

I wouldn't begin to get serious about an evaluation until the end of January. A major question with WCS is consistency and attrition. One can't gauge his consistency or his ability to withstand the NBA physicallity over just a couple of months.

It would be nice to see WCS actually outrebound the opposing center in some games going forward. At this point, in an odd way, I look at WCS kind of like Marcus Smart with Boston. As a guard Marcus Smart can't shoot, is a so-so assist guy, but brings defense and toughness to the table. WCS can't rebound, can't spread the floor on offense with outside shooting, isn't particularly good at defending physical players in the post, but can run the floor very well, get lobs, score off his quickness inside, and guard the perimeter. It's a mixed bag with both of them, and in each case they don't do particularly well what you expect from their respective position, but they do do other things very well. Marcus Smart was awarded a contract of $52 million over 4 years by Boston.

The only issue with waiting is that the longer the Kings wait, the more leverage he has if he keeps playing well.

 

[Kingster]

The only issue with waiting is that the longer the Kings wait, the more leverage he has if he keeps playing well.

Given his three year history, I would wait further into the season for more evidence.

 

[Telemachus]

If he averages those numbers, he's going to get paid a lot more than 12-18. Some team will offer him near-max..because those are MAX numbers for a center.

The evidence of that is the contract that Turner just signed with Indiana. His numbers were similar to WCS's last season.

 

[jcassio]

It sure seems like WCS should have his way with the Joker inside on offense, but the Joker may have his way with WCS on offense also. It's going to be very interesting. The Kings must stay close to the Nuggets in rebounding. The Kings' are currently 27th in the league in rebounding (40.7), while the Nuggets are 4th (52.3).

All Joerger has to do to improve our rebounding is to keep Giles and Bagley on the floor.

 

[Kingster]

All Joerger has to do to improve our rebounding is to keep Giles and Bagley on the floor.

I don't know about Giles. He's having a problem rebounding the ball also. Guys like Hield, Shump, Jackson, Fox and Bjelica have to step up the rebounding I believe. If memory serves, Fox had 7 rebs in the last game; that's great from your pg.

 

[kingsboi]

I don't know about Giles. He's having a problem rebounding the ball also. Guys like Hield, Shump, Jackson, Fox and Bjelica have to step up the rebounding I believe. If memory serves, Fox had 7 rebs in the last game; that's great from your pg.

when a team, like the Kings, who struggles to rebound, they have to gang rebound and secure possession before running everyone down the court

 

[Nokidding]

WCS has played grown man basketball for the first 4 games of the season, even in the one game where he seemed to go back to his old ways he did fight back. I would say it's between him and Fox who if the season stopped right now would be MVP of the team but still a long way to go. I would really love to see him chase after a few more blocks like Bagley does.

 

[VF21]

What if he is only putting in this effort now that it's for a contract? Then after he gets paid, he's going to go back to trying to be something else and waste everyone else's time until he's playing for another contact?

That's warped thinking IMHO. If he does better this year than ever before, why would he even consider going back to something that didn't work?

 

[dude12]

Going to need to pay that man his money.

 

[jcassio]

I've been noticing, at least once per game, that Willie will pull his hands away from a ball and allow someone else to grab it. Definitely not the instincts of a great rebounder who goes hard after each and every ball. I wonder if Willie may not have some trauma (that he hasn't overcame) from hurting his hand or finger as a rookie? I seem to recall that he injured a hand or finger as a rookie, and said something once or twice since then about not wanting to re-injure himself.

 

[Kingster]

For the first time this year the opposing center did not get more rebounds than WCS - Gasol and WCS tied with 10 apiece. WCS had a little more playing time than Gasol to get those rebounds, but I'll take it. Next up is Washington, whose starting and backup centers are out with injury. Jason Smith is the starting center. This should bode well for WCS and the Kings, but Smith does get an average of five rebounds in 13.8 minutes of play. The rebound leader for the Wizards is Morris with 6.3 a game.

 

[bajaden]

For the first time this year the opposing center did not get more rebounds than WCS - Gasol and WCS tied with 10 apiece. WCS had a little more playing time than Gasol to get those rebounds, but I'll take it. Next up is Washington, whose starting and backup centers are out with injury. Jason Smith is the starting center. This should bode well for WCS and the Kings, but Smith does get an average of five rebounds in 13.8 minutes of play. The rebound leader for the Wizards is Morris with 6.3 a game.

I know everyone gets all warm and fuzzy when they talk about rebounds and blocked shots, but did anyone pay attention to the defense that Willie played against the Grizzleys. He had an outstanding game defensively, switching, doubling, stopping the ball etc. Sometimes I think people just look at how many blocked shots a player has to determine whether he played defense or not.. Aside for a couple of mistakes, Willie was outstanding last night. And, he did have 10 boards as well, for the warm and fuzzy crowd.

 

[Kingster]

I know everyone gets all warm and fuzzy when they talk about rebounds and blocked shots, but did anyone pay attention to the defense that Willie played against the Grizzleys. He had an outstanding game defensively, switching, doubling, stopping the ball etc. Sometimes I think people just look at how many blocked shots a player has to determine whether he played defense or not.. Aside for a couple of mistakes, Willie was outstanding last night. And, he did have 10 boards as well, for the warm and fuzzy crowd.

Yes, I did pay attention to the defense. It was very good. I don't get the "warm and fuzzy" crowd comment. Rebounds aren't warm and fuzzy, more like tough and needed for winning.

 

[Padrino]

Yes, I did pay attention to the defense. It was very good. I don't get the "warm and fuzzy" crowd comment. Rebounds aren't warm and fuzzy, more like tough and needed for winning.

They are, indeed. But with the NBA instituting a 14-second shot clock after an offensive rebound, I predict a de-emphasis placed on players crashing the boards on offense, making it easier for defenses to retrieve them. And with the continued referee focus on calling fouls for contact on the perimeter, switching will continue to rule the day as a defensive strategy. Willie Cauley-Stein may yet find his place in the league; he's tailor-made for the NBA as it's currently being officiated, and showing tremendous improvement in the effort and consistency department, from everything I've gathered.

 

[VF21]

I've been noticing, at least once per game, that Willie will pull his hands away from a ball and allow someone else to grab it. Definitely not the instincts of a great rebounder who goes hard after each and every ball. I wonder if Willie may not have some trauma (that he hasn't overcame) from hurting his hand or finger as a rookie? I seem to recall that he injured a hand or finger as a rookie, and said something once or twice since then about not wanting to re-injure himself.

I honestly think people need to step back and look at the big picture instead of microfocusing on every single play/possession where WCS is involved. NO PLAYER can stand up to that kind of unrelenting scrutiny. The guy is working his posterior off and starting to come into his own (which is something a number of people here predicted would take several years). I'm just glad to see the improvement. It's a little over the top IMHO to think he may have some kind of PTSD because of a finger injury.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I predict a de-emphasis placed on players crashing the boards on offense, making it easier for defenses to retrieve them.

We'll have to see how the numbers work out, but that doesn't really make much sense to me. Possessions are of ultimate importance in the NBA and 14 seconds is plenty of time to set an offense in the halfcourt. I think it would be folly to intentionally de-emphasize offensive rebounding due to the shot clock rule change.

 

[Padrino]

We'll have to see how the numbers work out, but that doesn't really make much sense to me. Possessions are of ultimate importance in the NBA and 14 seconds is plenty of time to set an offense in the halfcourt. I think it would be folly to intentionally de-emphasize offensive rebounding due to the shot clock rule change.

I'd say it's plenty of time to theoretically get a decent shot, but not necessarily plenty of time to run a typical offensive set, particularly after the rebounder finds a ball handler and passes it to them. The cost-benefit analysis of attempting to secure an offensive rebound rather than getting back on defense have decreased pretty dramatically, I'd say. I think it's just another reason for teams to double-down on going small. The rule effectively neutralizes some of the advantage of trying to punish teams who do go small by chasing offensive boards with your bigs.

 

[jcassio]

I honestly think people need to step back and look at the big picture instead of microfocusing on every single play/possession where WCS is involved. NO PLAYER can stand up to that kind of unrelenting scrutiny. The guy is working his posterior off and starting to come into his own (which is something a number of people here predicted would take several years). I'm just glad to see the improvement. It's a little over the top IMHO to think he may have some kind of PTSD because of a finger injury.

What makes you think I’m not looking at the big picture because of a single question I posted? I think Willie is showing us something this year. Finally. I’m rooting for him. But I also wonder what I expressed in my post. Is that too much to digest?

 

[sergmatt]

He's a solid NBA player that has a place in this league. He also has some exceptional physical attributes and at times when he's really rolling.....he can fool you into thinking he has borderline all-star potential. However he just isn't consistent enough and doesn't have the basketball IQ to be anything better than an average starter. I still see him make way too many boneheaded mistakes on the offensive end. Defensively he definitely looks better and hungrier this year but the rebounding still isn't there and that's just not something you can overlook.

In the current NBA market he's definitely worth 10-12 Million a year but any team that decides to give him 15-20 per year is going to be sadly disappointed over the length of the deal.

 

[VF21]

What makes you think I’m not looking at the big picture because of a single question I posted? I think Willie is showing us something this year. Finally. I’m rooting for him. But I also wonder what I expressed in my post. Is that too much to digest?

I'm sorry. I should have indicated I was only using your post because it triggered the thought that a number of people here (not necessarily you) seem to put him under a microscope they don't use for others. My bad.

 

[VF21]

He's a solid NBA player that has a place in this league. He also has some exceptional physical attributes and at times when he's really rolling.....he can fool you into thinking he has borderline all-star potential. However he just isn't consistent enough and doesn't have the basketball IQ to be anything better than an average starter. I still see him make way too many boneheaded mistakes on the offensive end. Defensively he definitely looks better and hungrier this year but the rebounding still isn't there and that's just not something you can overlook.

In the current NBA market he's definitely worth 10-12 Million a year but any team that decides to give him 15-20 per year is going to be sadly disappointed over the length of the deal.

If he is, as you say, a "solid NBA player that has a place in this league" he's gonna get paid. I think we're gonna be more and more impressed with him as the year goes on, with consistency coming as part of his improvement. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the 12-15M range.

 

[Joshoua]

I have a hard time paying contract year players and to I also believe we should build our team around Bagley/Fox. Bagley best position I believe will be center I’d like to get a shooting PF like Bjlecia next to Bagley.

If anything I’d sell WCS at the deadline and I wouldn’t give him a turner like contact

 

[Kingster]

They are, indeed. But with the NBA instituting a 14-second shot clock after an offensive rebound, I predict a de-emphasis placed on players crashing the boards on offense, making it easier for defenses to retrieve them. And with the continued referee focus on calling fouls for contact on the perimeter, switching will continue to rule the day as a defensive strategy. Willie Cauley-Stein may yet find his place in the league; he's tailor-made for the NBA as it's currently being officiated, and showing tremendous improvement in the effort and consistency department, from everything I've gathered.

With respect to the Kings, I think even last year there was an emphasis by opponents not crashing the offensive board because they saw Fox as the greatest threat and didn't want to get him going in the opposite direction if they failed to get the rebound. If this is the case, then defensive rebounds should be that much easier to get for the Kings to get. (Also, total defensive rebounds probably should be higher because there are more possessions in a faster paced game). Yet WCS has had difficulty in that area. Because of the difference in running and gunning and offense this year as compared to last year, I'm paying more attention to the differential in rebounding between him and the opposing center than rebounds as an absolute number, which I think is fair. At the same time, a faster paced game with more possessions probably means more rebounds and more rebounds per minute. (I haven't had the time to confirm that hypothesis on an NBA-wide basis; if the entire NBA is shooting a much higher percentage from the field then there would be less rebounds, despite more possessions).

I'm in total agreement about that WCS has consistently put out effort in each of the five games that he's played. Like I've said before, I really want to see what WCS's effort is after 20 games into the season. Let's see what that rebounding differential is during the dog-days.

 

[dude12]

WCS is going to get at least $15 mill. Look at other salaries out there. Here’s the biggest thing though. If we let him walk, we take a step back....a big step. Do we go with Giles who I really like, but as we can see, is a few years from being good? WCS is a very good fit with THIS team. He’s taken a step forward in his play this year.

 

[bajaden]

Yes, I did pay attention to the defense. It was very good. I don't get the "warm and fuzzy" crowd comment. Rebounds aren't warm and fuzzy, more like tough and needed for winning.

Lighten up amigo, it was just a poor attempt at a bit of humor.

 

[bajaden]

I have a hard time paying contract year players and to I also believe we should build our team around Bagley/Fox. Bagley best position I believe will be center I’d like to get a shooting PF like Bjlecia next to Bagley.

If anything I’d sell WCS at the deadline and I wouldn’t give him a turner like contact

Would you have given Turner that contract, because Willie put up better numbers than Turner last season, and he's currently putting up much better numbers this season.

 

[Joshoua]

Would you have given Turner that contract, because Willie put up better numbers than Turner last season, and he's currently putting up much better numbers this season.

Yes not even compared for me. Turner was 21 a good defender and can shoot 3s WCS is 4 years older and is limited offensively

 

[dude12]

Turner took a step back last year. Not a good sign in progression no matter what the age.

Turner and WCS are about equal in rebounding which is neither are a DeAndre Jordan type. Defensively? Good question on which guy is better. I believe the Pacers overpaid Turner. But that goes to the point I’m making about WCS, Pacers can’t afford to just let Turner walk, it would set them back a little even though they have a very good Sabonis who can play C.

 

[rhythmless]

That's warped thinking IMHO. If he does better this year than ever before, why would he even consider going back to something that didn't work?

Not that it didn't work, but that this level of effort to be this type of player may not be something he can sustain. There are big men who put in one good year and tantalize teams info shelling out. Then they revert back, happy with their payout. Based on the quotes he's given through these couple of years, it worries me. That's all. It's the wedding couple that gives maximum effort for their wedding day. Unsustainable but it looks really good for that one day.

I'm pleasantly surprised and happy, I'm just not sure who the real wcs is.