Why Didn't Vlade Draft Luka?

eleventy

eleventy

G-League
KingsFanSince85 said:
The projected 7-10 Billion expansion fee I’ve been seeing reported around is absolutely CRAZY! Especially for a league that really isn’t in top shape right now and has been seeing decline in viewership in recent years.

It ain’t my $$$ but still. That’s a ginormous fee.
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at first, i saw "6 billion" as the number - now it looks like they have a "range" (7-10 billion).

looks like they want, "whatever they can get"

the "decline in viewership" might have something to do with trying to operate "League Pass" with "robot assistance" which simply DOES NOT WORK.

but since qwerty is on here and we did not finish our prior "luka/vlade" go-round (for the 599th time), i actually have a "new point" to make on that score:

here it is:

qwerty believes that vlade's relationship to luka's dad played no part in him selecting bagley over luka

the facts are that vlade knew luka's dad as a player and then as a coach.

he knew luka from when he was a pre-teen.

as i think about that, i ask myself,:

"WHEN (if EVER) has a GM had long term, intimate knowledge about a developing prospect whose FATHER is a friend/acquaintance of that GM over a period of many years?"

i mean, it hardly EVER happens that way.

normally, the scouting department reviews film of college/hs games and MAYBE sends a coach to interview his HS coach and maybe a player or two from that team.

but mostly, the player's likes and dislikes, his way of doing things remain a mystery (the player will say "all the right things") and the team relies on gut feelings.

but in Luka's case, Vlade had known him since he was a kid and had a long relationship with his father (people differ on the NATURE of their relationship but they HAD ONE and STILL DO).

and THAT is what set Luka apart from everyone else in that draft - Vlade knew him well - and Vlade probably knew the family better than every other GM in that draft.

it's one thing to say, "i didn't think his game would translate to the NBA" or "We already had Fox" (yes, but we had him when we selected haliburton and what about BPA?)

but you can't get away from, "he had more info on luka than he had on anyone else in the draft and he didn't take him" - couldn't vlade's relationship with luka's dad have played SOME part in the (bad) decision?

we now return control of your mind to you, until next week at this time
 
eleventy said:
at first, i saw "6 billion" as the number - now it looks like they have a "range" (7-10 billion).

looks like they want, "whatever they can get"

the "decline in viewership" might have something to do with trying to operate "League Pass" with "robot assistance" which simply DOES NOT WORK.

but since qwerty is on here and we did not finish our prior "luka/vlade" go-round (for the 599th time), i actually have a "new point" to make on that score:

here it is:

qwerty believes that vlade's relationship to luka's dad played no part in him selecting bagley over luka

the facts are that vlade knew luka's dad as a player and then as a coach.

he knew luka from when he was a pre-teen.

as i think about that, i ask myself,:

"WHEN (if EVER) has a GM had long term, intimate knowledge about a developing prospect whose FATHER is a friend/acquaintance of that GM over a period of many years?"

i mean, it hardly EVER happens that way.

normally, the scouting department reviews film of college/hs games and MAYBE sends a coach to interview his HS coach and maybe a player or two from that team.

but mostly, the player's likes and dislikes, his way of doing things remain a mystery (the player will say "all the right things") and the team relies on gut feelings.

but in Luka's case, Vlade had known him since he was a kid and had a long relationship with his father (people differ on the NATURE of their relationship but they HAD ONE and STILL DO).

and THAT is what set Luka apart from everyone else in that draft - Vlade knew him well - and Vlade probably knew the family better than every other GM in that draft.

it's one thing to say, "i didn't think his game would translate to the NBA" or "We already had Fox" (yes, but we had him when we selected haliburton and what about BPA?)

but you can't get away from, "he had more info on luka than he had on anyone else in the draft and he didn't take him" - couldn't vlade's relationship with luka's dad have played SOME part in the (bad) decision?

we now return control of your mind to you, until next week at this time
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Putting this one to rest in order to save my sanity.

You believe Vlade passed up the opportunity to draft Luka because of Luka's dad (a claim for which you have NOT provided a reputable source that states that, by the way...)
I believe he passed up the opportunity to draft Luka because he was an idiot (a claim for which I have provided a reputable source that states that, by the way...)

I don't think anything is going to cause either of us to change our stance about this, so...

I'm moving on from this now. I suggest you do the same.
 
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QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Putting this one to rest in order to save my sanity.

You believe Vlade passed up the opportunity to draft Luka because of Luka's dad (a claim for which you have NOT provided a reputable source that states that, by the way...)
I believe he passed up the opportunity to draft Luka because he was an idiot (a claim for which I have provided a reputable source that states that, by the way...)

I don't think anything is going to cause either of us to change our stance about this, so...

I'm moving on from this now. I suggest you do the same.
Click to expand...


(i composed the previous post AND this one as "one post" - but i got an "oops" refusal to post. so i posted the previous post and am doing this (with 3 nbc bay area links - which "might" have been "the oops problem") - we'll see if THIS posts:



qwerty plays it "helpless" - as in "save my sanity" (poor boy) but "helpful" (not) as in "i suggest you do the same"

in between , he suggests i have provided no "proof" (what? that vlade knew luka's dad very well?)

here are some links (you should have FACTS when you state an opinion)


(the above from nba bay area quoting shams and espn - good enough?)

but there's more:

www.nbcsports.com

Former Kings GM Vlade Divac on why he passed on drafting Luka Doncic, 'I already had De’Aaron Fox'

Divac says 'time will tell' on whether he made the right call. Time already has told and he did not.
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com

(again nba bay area - but note the first sentence)

www.nbcsports.com

Report: Kings GM Vlade Divac and Luka Doncic's dad spoke, laughed about rumor

The latest rumor: Kings general manager Vlade Divac wasn't fond of Sasa Doncic, Luka's dad.
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com

again nbc bay area but grant napear both DEFENDS vlade (his buddy) AND lends insight on the relationship between luka's dad and vlade (which qwerty has apparently never heard about). how many other gm's get personal phone calls from the father of a top prospect who the kings did NOT draft?

my point is that vlade had more info on luka than anyone else, from knowing him and his dad since luka was a preteen.

so you can't say he just "made a mistake" - no, he KNEW what he was doing and had all the info he needed - and talked about it in a personal phone call with luka's dad.

of course, two things can also be true because vlade IS an idiot.
 
eleventy said:
(i composed the previous post AND this one as "one post" - but i got an "oops" refusal to post. so i posted the previous post and am doing this (with 3 nbc bay area links - which "might" have been "the oops problem") - we'll see if THIS posts:



qwerty plays it "helpless" - as in "save my sanity" (poor boy) but "helpful" (not) as in "i suggest you do the same"

in between , he suggests i have provided no "proof" (what? that vlade knew luka's dad very well?)

here are some links (you should have FACTS when you state an opinion)


(the above from nba bay area quoting shams and espn - good enough?)

but there's more:

www.nbcsports.com

Former Kings GM Vlade Divac on why he passed on drafting Luka Doncic, 'I already had De’Aaron Fox'

Divac says 'time will tell' on whether he made the right call. Time already has told and he did not.
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com

(again nba bay area - but note the first sentence)

www.nbcsports.com

Report: Kings GM Vlade Divac and Luka Doncic's dad spoke, laughed about rumor

The latest rumor: Kings general manager Vlade Divac wasn't fond of Sasa Doncic, Luka's dad.
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com

again nbc bay area but grant napear both DEFENDS vlade (his buddy) AND lends insight on the relationship between luka's dad and vlade (which qwerty has apparently never heard about). how many other gm's get personal phone calls from the father of a top prospect who the kings did NOT draft?

my point is that vlade had more info on luka than anyone else, from knowing him and his dad since luka was a preteen.

so you can't say he just "made a mistake" - no, he KNEW what he was doing and had all the info he needed - and talked about it in a personal phone call with luka's dad.

of course, two things can also be true because vlade IS an idiot.
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The first article you provide posts someone's belief as to why Vlade didn't draft Luka, and not something that was confirmed to be factual.

The second (which I also make note of in my post) essentially proves my point that Vlade did NOT draft Luka because of any prior relationship with his dad, because if that was the reason, then why would they both have laughed about the reports that claim as such over a phone conversation???

The only proof out there of the reason why Vlade drafted Luka is a quote by Vlade claiming that the Kings had Fox on the team, and he felt that drafting Luka wouldn't make much sense as a result.

All I am asking for you to do is to provide a reputable source with CONFIRMED evidence that Vlade passed up on drafting Luka because of his prior relationship with his dad - not some belief or speculation - but something concrete that confirms that, yes, Vlade passed up on drafting Luka because of his prior relationship with his dad - i.e. a direct quote from Vlade, Luka, Luka's dad, or someone close to either that is not some random ESPN reporter who is reporting based on pure speculation.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
The first article you provide posts someone's belief as to why Vlade didn't draft Luka, and not something that was confirmed to be factual.

The second (which I also make note of in my post) essentially proves my point that Vlade did NOT draft Luka because of any prior relationship with his dad, because if that was the reason, then why would they both have laughed about the reports that claim as such over a phone conversation???

The only proof out there of the reason why Vlade drafted Luka is a quote by Vlade claiming that the Kings had Fox on the team, and he felt that drafting Luka wouldn't make much sense as a result.

All I am asking for you to do is to provide a reputable source with CONFIRMED evidence that Vlade passed up on drafting Luka because of his prior relationship with his dad - not some belief or speculation - but something concrete that confirms that, yes, Vlade passed up on drafting Luka because of his prior relationship with his dad - i.e. a direct quote from Vlade, Luka, Luka's dad, or someone close to either that is not some random ESPN reporter who is reporting based on pure speculation.
Click to expand...

the first article provides insight (at what i assume you believe is a legitimate new source) as to why vlade would say that - the author quotes an espn writer
 
eleventy said:
the first article provides insight (at what i assume you believe is a legitimate new source) as to why vlade would say that - the author quotes an espn writer
Click to expand...
But it is/was that ESPN writer's belief...that's my point...It wasn't anything that was confirmed. That's where my issue lies...It's pure speculation on the writer's part. Give me something more factual, and something that has been proven/confirmed.
 
the first link was from a respected news source quoting tim mcmahon of espn on the woj podcasr as saying this:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"My understanding is that [Divac] being so close to Luka and knowing his dad so well factored into their decision," MacMahon said on ESPN's "The Woj Pod," via NBC Sports' Kurt Helin. "Basically, he didn't think a whole lot of Luka's dad, and the whole like father like son ... well ... no, this is a different dude. You messed that one up, Vlade."

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the second link contains this statement:

The Kings will undoubtedly push back on this idea, and there’s certainly no way to prove this rumor.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

these ARE "rumors", some of which will be true, others false.

but i am not presenting them as "facts"

i'm just saying that vlade didn't make this decision while "uninformed"

if vlade was "well connected in europe" and had known luka and his dad since luka was very young, then he made the decision to NOT draft him based on SOMETHING.

mcmahon guesses that it WAS his dad while you rely on vlade's statement that "i already had fox".

the FACTS are that vlade knew luka's dad well enough to get personal phone calls from him (convenirntly, when napear was there to witness the call) and the professional in the room (from espn) goes with the "dad" reason.

you can go with any reason you want but we will still differ, so, on to other subjects.
 
I think Vlade had some concerns about Luka's work ethic. Maybe he really loved Bagley too? He was in way over his head which is why he always had assistants making a lot of decisions during his tenure.

Brandon Williams who was the actual basketball personnel guy for Vlade's FO when the pick was made was high on Bagley and nobody else to the extent they didn't even look at other picks or have them come in for workouts. It's a running joke that he could jump over and out dribble/maneuver chairs because apparently that's really how they worked him out.

The real questions are how they came to that evaluation and convinced Vivek to ok it when his son and Joerger were apparently all in on Luka.

In either event, I feel like Luka would have forced his way out by now so as painful as Fox was, I can't actually imagine going through that with a genuine generational talent. Then again, I can't imagine anyone on the Kings getting as much leeway with the officials as Luka has received on Dallas and now the Lakers.

Better to have never loved and lost, or perhaps loved and lost the dream of what could have been, than to have my heart ripped out.
 
I hate that Vivek invites Vlade to sit next to him at lots of Kings home games. Like they are best buddies to this day. Recall that Vlade said Luka had too much baby fat as well as dislike of the father. All of it adds up to Vlade not seeing what was right in front of him. Once in a lifetime generational talent, mega superstar. Vlade all-time GM dunce!
 
let me say my piece here...

saša dončić was far from well known ex-yugoslav player, i hardly heard about him before luka emerged. 90% of his career was in some village clubs.
some time after the draft, rumor emerged that vlade and him dislike each other because they were teammates in some of those local clubs... nonsense

saša is 6 years younger than divac, for example when dončić played for U16 NT of old yugoslavia, divac played finals vs jordan and bulls (1990/91)... they played for the same club, not well known in europe, but dončić joined that team 15 years after vlade left.
When and how Vlade Divac and Luka’s father Saša Dončić even met is a big question mark. I doubt that Divac, during his playing career, even knew Saša Dončić existed. So the story that the two of them didn’t like each other doesn’t really make sense, because Divac went to the NBA when Dončić was around 15. I wonder who served that story to the media...

Now, about the draft. As bad as Divac may have been as an executive, and as much of a dinosaur as he might have been, I don’t believe he could have been so clueless as to miss the obvious talent of Luka Dončić. At 18, Dončić won gold with Slovenia at the Eurobasket, which is an incredible achievement—especially since it’s the only medal Slovenia has ever won. Then, at 19, he won the EuroLeague with Real Madrid and was named F4 MVP.

Maybe there were doubts about his baby fat. But Vlade was not known for his muscular atributes as a player; quite the opposite. Did he had any concerns about his work ethic? Maybe yes, maybe no—that’s a big question. I can tell you that Vlade also as a young player was not known for his work ethics, when it comes to fitness and the gym. I don’t have any concrete evidence, but I do have a few assumptions.

First, Divac may have genuinely believed that Fox was enough as the team’s star, and I also think he may have seen Bogdan as just as good as Dončić, maybe even better, since his former NT teammates hyped him up quite a bit.

Second, there’s a good chance he simply left the decision to Brandon Williams to choose the second pick. But personally, I believe most strongly that it was actually a decision made by Vivek, and that Divac just stepped aside. My view is that during his time as GM, Divac was basically Vivek’s puppet, and that the major decisions were made directly by Vivek. Maybe Vivek allowed him to draft Papa G and do all those shenanigans in the 2017 draft, but this one was big time decision.

What’s interesting is that after the Euroleague 2018 Final Four in Belgrade, Vivek, Divac, Bogdanović, and Dončić all went to dinner together. I don’t know what was said—there are no rumors I’ve heard—but what we do know is that a few weeks later, at the draft, the Kings selected Bagley , even though Adam Silver had basically laid out the path for us and served Dončić on a silver platter.

So, my personal opinion is that in the end, it was Vivek’s decision—that he stepped in whenever a major call had to be made.
 
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So it was a long time ago but I was told that Luka told Vlade he had no intention of playing for the Kings and was fine staying in Real Madrid if the Kings drafted him.

From what we have seen subsequently that appears consistent with Luka’s behavior. Vlade still sucked at drafting regardless.
 
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