Who's the best fit at power forward? - Jason Jones

It sure as heck isn't Skal or Cauley Stein so that leaves us with a question mark in Giles and a over the hill veteran in Z-Bo...mehh
 
Sac.1989 said:
he'll most likely back both WCS and ZBo at PF/C id say. - agreed though, he is a PF in my eyes
Click to expand...

I doubt that Willie is going anywhere. I agree that Giles best position is likely PF. I can see him playing some center in the right match up. For instance if the Warriors put Green at center, as they often do, then there's no reason Giles couldn't match up against him. I know some of you people don't realize it, but Willie is the prototype of the modern NBA center. Athletic, able to guard on the perimiter, and run the floor. The Kings aren't about to invest four years in his development and then let him walk, or give him away in a trade. Trust me, there are teams that would like to have Willie on their team.

Here's a suggestion. Take the time to go look up players around the NBA and compare their stats to Willies. I think you'll find that Willie's stats match up quite well. He's not as bad a player as some of you think he is. Here's an example between Willie and Derrick Favors

Favors: 28 mpg - 12.3 ppg - 56.3% fgp - 20.2% 3pp - 7.2 rpg - 1.3 apg - 1.1 bpg
Willie: 28 mpg - 12.8 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 1.4 apg - 0.9 bpg

Favors was a higher draft pick and has played 7 years in the NBA while Willie has played only 3 years. I can show you player after player. All that said, I think this is an important year for Willie. It needs to be his breakout year where he puts all the criticisms to rest.
 
Giles and Willie can definitely play together given Willie's mobility. It's the offensive spacing that could be an issue with that duo. If we draft Doncic I could see a lineup of

Fox, Hield, Doncic, Giles, Willie

I would love to start Bogi but I feel like the second unit could use Bogi's playmaking more than the starting unit would with Fox and Doncic. Maybe a second unit of

Bogdan, Jackson, Shumpert, Skal, Koufos

Not taking into account free agency yet though.
 
jcwkings said:
Giles and Willie can definitely play together given Willie's mobility. It's the offensive spacing that could be an issue with that duo. If we draft Doncic I could see a lineup of

Fox, Hield, Doncic, Giles, Willie

I would love to start Bogi but I feel like the second unit could use Bogi's playmaking more than the starting unit would with Fox and Doncic. Maybe a second unit of

Bogdan, Jackson, Shumpert, Skal, Koufos

Not taking into account free agency yet though.
Click to expand...

3 non shooters in a lineup is unacceptable to me. If Giles shows promise I’m trading WCS for a stretch 4
 
bajaden said:
I doubt that Willie is going anywhere. I agree that Giles best position is likely PF. I can see him playing some center in the right match up. For instance if the Warriors put Green at center, as they often do, then there's no reason Giles couldn't match up against him. I know some of you people don't realize it, but Willie is the prototype of the modern NBA center. Athletic, able to guard on the perimiter, and run the floor. The Kings aren't about to invest four years in his development and then let him walk, or give him away in a trade. Trust me, there are teams that would like to have Willie on their team.

Here's a suggestion. Take the time to go look up players around the NBA and compare their stats to Willies. I think you'll find that Willie's stats match up quite well. He's not as bad a player as some of you think he is. Here's an example between Willie and Derrick Favors

Favors: 28 mpg - 12.3 ppg - 56.3% fgp - 20.2% 3pp - 7.2 rpg - 1.3 apg - 1.1 bpg
Willie: 28 mpg - 12.8 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 1.4 apg - 0.9 bpg

Favors was a higher draft pick and has played 7 years in the NBA while Willie has played only 3 years. I can show you player after player. All that said, I think this is an important year for Willie. It needs to be his breakout year where he puts all the criticisms to rest.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of this but the question is, if WCS is your C, is his rebounding good enough to be a starter in the era where a lot of teams going small ball.

His athletic profile is a blue print but can he bump up those rebounding numbers by 2 rpg? If he can, then you absolutely go with that. If he cannot then you need rebounding from every position which is a pretty hard thing to aquire. Giles is reportedly a very good rebounder so a WCS/Giles combo could work pretty well especially if Giles can keep improving on his ability to stretch the floor.
 
bajaden said:
I doubt that Willie is going anywhere. I agree that Giles best position is likely PF. I can see him playing some center in the right match up. For instance if the Warriors put Green at center, as they often do, then there's no reason Giles couldn't match up against him. I know some of you people don't realize it, but Willie is the prototype of the modern NBA center. Athletic, able to guard on the perimiter, and run the floor. The Kings aren't about to invest four years in his development and then let him walk, or give him away in a trade. Trust me, there are teams that would like to have Willie on their team.

Here's a suggestion. Take the time to go look up players around the NBA and compare their stats to Willies. I think you'll find that Willie's stats match up quite well. He's not as bad a player as some of you think he is. Here's an example between Willie and Derrick Favors

Favors: 28 mpg - 12.3 ppg - 56.3% fgp - 20.2% 3pp - 7.2 rpg - 1.3 apg - 1.1 bpg
Willie: 28 mpg - 12.8 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 1.4 apg - 0.9 bpg

Favors was a higher draft pick and has played 7 years in the NBA while Willie has played only 3 years. I can show you player after player. All that said, I think this is an important year for Willie. It needs to be his breakout year where he puts all the criticisms to rest.
Click to expand...
Also has been showing some of the footwork of Zbo and Cuz lately, 2 of the best in that department. He won't peak for several more years.
 
When it comes to WCS it's all about his motivation and mentality. He has the physical skills, but his intensity is so inconsistent and would rather pretend to be Porzingis than get an extra board or two. Beasts for a game and then proceeds to play like a D-Leaguer for the next 4. That's what's frustrating, and I'm not interested in players that don't buy in to doing what's best for the team. Honestly the only reason id keep him around is the chemistry he's shown with our guards.

I'm really hoping that Skal has a breakout season.
 
Sac.1989 said:
Giles is the PF of the future. He'll play behind WCS this season who we trade as an expiring mid season or let walk for free
Click to expand...

You never ever want to let a player like WCS walk for free.

He may not be great, but he has value around the league. He has played his rookie contract with us, shown improvement, and possibility of being a regular rotation guy at the least. If you don't have a place for him on your team, you try to find some deal that works for both sides, but losing him for nothing would be really really bad management.

ps: I understand that just because we want to trade him (assuming it comes to that) for something doesn't mean that scenarios that make sense are readily available. However, I believe he has enough value for teams to offer something meaningful, since if he walks, only teams under the cap, which are usually pretty bad to begin with, are the only ones that can sign him.
 
bajaden said:
I doubt that Willie is going anywhere. I agree that Giles best position is likely PF. I can see him playing some center in the right match up. For instance if the Warriors put Green at center, as they often do, then there's no reason Giles couldn't match up against him. I know some of you people don't realize it, but Willie is the prototype of the modern NBA center. Athletic, able to guard on the perimiter, and run the floor. The Kings aren't about to invest four years in his development and then let him walk, or give him away in a trade. Trust me, there are teams that would like to have Willie on their team.

Here's a suggestion. Take the time to go look up players around the NBA and compare their stats to Willies. I think you'll find that Willie's stats match up quite well. He's not as bad a player as some of you think he is. Here's an example between Willie and Derrick Favors

Favors: 28 mpg - 12.3 ppg - 56.3% fgp - 20.2% 3pp - 7.2 rpg - 1.3 apg - 1.1 bpg
Willie: 28 mpg - 12.8 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 1.4 apg - 0.9 bpg

Favors was a higher draft pick and has played 7 years in the NBA while Willie has played only 3 years. I can show you player after player. All that said, I think this is an important year for Willie. It needs to be his breakout year where he puts all the criticisms to rest.
Click to expand...
He isnt BAD, but thats part of the reason he frustrates the hell out of me. he has all star level talent but will likely (IMO) never tap into it.
 
NewArena said:
He isnt BAD, but thats part of the reason he frustrates the hell out of me. he has all star level talent but will likely (IMO) never tap into it.
Click to expand...

That's why I said that this is an important year for him. Big men typically have their break out year in their 3rd or 4th year in the NBA if its going to happen at all. Since Willie came to the game late (didn't really start playing basketball until his junior year of high school) it's more likely to be his 4th year. One has to remember that just having the athletic ability isn't enough. It has to be trained to respond to the sport your playing. Willie was a football player learning how to play basketball. A player like Giles started playing basketball when he was 6 years old.

So, if you know all that going in when you draft him, you also realize it's likely to take a little more time than normal, which requires patience. I think the worse thing a team can do is put in three or fours years of work, and then let another team cash in on that work. I don't pretend to know everything that goes on in Willie's head. It's difficult to judge the motivation and desire of a player, but I've seen nothing that makes me believe that Willie isn't putting in the work. As to thinking that he isn't focused because he has other interests outside of basketball is nonsense.

It's obvious that Willie has large expectations for himself, and to some degree those expectations differ from those of the fan base. I will never fault any player for wanting to be great. When I played I wanted to be great, but injuries decided my fate. That said, at some point, any player, Willie included, has to do a reality check, and at some point, come to terms with his limitations. I don't think Willie is there yet, and the coaching staff has yet to put the reigns on him. Which means, they must have some faith in his abilities. We must never forget that this is a team in flux right now.

What that means, is that this is a team that is still unsettled. It's a mixture of young, athletic, inexperienced players, with a small group of older, less athletic experienced players sprinkled in. Joerger's job is to find a way to put that mixture on the floor and make it look like a team. In a scenario like that, players are asked to play a way that many times isn't conducive to their strengths. As an example, it's hard to get out and push the ball when Randolph is on the floor. I'm sure there are other offenses that Joerger would love to run, but doesn't because of the current roster. I think some of that will change this year, and definitely the following year.
 
Just out of curiosity, how do people who consider Giles as a pf see the spacing on offence with lineups like fox, bogdan, Donic, giles, wcs? Thats two complete non shooters and one bad shooter. To me it sounds awfull since the two best players (Donic, Fox) excells in pick n rolls. Doncic especially would suffer badly from that spacing since with him handling the ball, there would be Fox on the wing with nobody really guarding him and two non shooting bigs clogging the lane.

Imo if we draft Doncic we should build the team around him and Fox. It means we should have personell fit to run a lot of pick n roll with Fox and Luka as ball handlers aka Fox, Luka, Shooter, Shooter, Rim running big. Having two non shooting bigs would be the opposite what you should have with Luka and Fox.
 
Gguod said:
Just out of curiosity, how do people who consider Giles as a pf see the spacing on offence with lineups like fox, bogdan, Donic, giles, wcs? Thats two complete non shooters and one bad shooter. To me it sounds awfull since the two best players (Donic, Fox) excells in pick n rolls. Doncic especially would suffer badly from that spacing since with him handling the ball, there would be Fox on the wing with nobody really guarding him and two non shooting bigs clogging the lane.

Imo if we draft Doncic we should build the team around him and Fox. It means we should have personell fit to run a lot of pick n roll with Fox and Luka as ball handlers aka Fox, Luka, Shooter, Shooter, Rim running big. Having two non shooting bigs would be the opposite what you should have with Luka and Fox.
Click to expand...

This is why I want to trade WCS and not even have to worry about it. Running a lineup like that will be a developmental waste of time because the lane will be clogged for Fox and then Giles will be double teamed easier since Fox's shot isn't to be respected yet.

Hard to even gauge what Giles' game is going to be like so we can only guess at this point. In high school he was this athletic beast that was all over the court and in college he strictly played like a center. Maybe he's going to be somewhere in between at this point? He has the height and length to play center but may not have the strength right away so it could possibly be a couple years before he can play the position full time. Then again according to Bogie, he's stronger than Draymond Green... so who knows? :cool:
 
bajaden said:
I doubt that Willie is going anywhere. I agree that Giles best position is likely PF. I can see him playing some center in the right match up. For instance if the Warriors put Green at center, as they often do, then there's no reason Giles couldn't match up against him. I know some of you people don't realize it, but Willie is the prototype of the modern NBA center. Athletic, able to guard on the perimiter, and run the floor. The Kings aren't about to invest four years in his development and then let him walk, or give him away in a trade. Trust me, there are teams that would like to have Willie on their team.

Here's a suggestion. Take the time to go look up players around the NBA and compare their stats to Willies. I think you'll find that Willie's stats match up quite well. He's not as bad a player as some of you think he is. Here's an example between Willie and Derrick Favors

Favors: 28 mpg - 12.3 ppg - 56.3% fgp - 20.2% 3pp - 7.2 rpg - 1.3 apg - 1.1 bpg
Willie: 28 mpg - 12.8 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 1.4 apg - 0.9 bpg

Favors was a higher draft pick and has played 7 years in the NBA while Willie has played only 3 years. I can show you player after player. All that said, I think this is an important year for Willie. It needs to be his breakout year where he puts all the criticisms to rest.
Click to expand...

I've taken the time. From basketball reference: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_per_minute.html

For those not familiar with this page, click TRB for ranking of rebounds/36 minutes from top to bottom. Then exclude those players with minimal minutes so you don't look at Chris Boucher as the best rebounder in the NBA.;) I used an arbitrary cut-off of 800 minutes for the season (about 10 min/game average). WCS comes in about the 78th rank in the NBA on that basis. Favors is a little bit higher.

As far as why WCS is similar in rebounding to Favors, I suspect this is a case of getting stats on a good team versus getting stats on a bad team. And along those lines, Favors plays with Rudy Gobert. WCS does not play with Rudy Gobert. Rudy Gobert is the 22nd best rebounder in the league (after deducting those players below 800 min/season). Some of the similarity in rebounds between the two players could be that Gobert is taking away some of those rebounds from Favors. Also, the underlying assumption of the post seems to be that Favors is a good or very good rebounder, hence if WCS is similar in rebounding to Favors, he too must be a good or very good rebounder. In watching Favors play, however, I've never thought he was a top tier rebounder. A great screener, yes. A good low post defender, yes. Rebounder? No. So maybe to applaud WCS for being similar in rebounding prowess to Favors is misplaced. They both are below average rebounders.
 
The article gives you the option to believe the best fit at PF is already a King.

Maybe it is Giles, I don't think it's any other current King. Otherwise I would have to go with Bagley from the games I watched. If it wasn't for that less then impressive wingspan, a need to improve at SF, and a league that has swayed away from a big players advantage I would be very happy with him as our pick. Still need to see these guys in workouts to really have a better idea.
 
jiimbob said:
The article gives you the option to believe the best fit at PF is already a King.

Maybe it is Giles, I don't think it's any other current King. Otherwise I would have to go with Bagley from the games I watched. If it wasn't for that less then impressive wingspan, a need to improve at SF, and a league that has swayed away from a big players advantage I would be very happy with him as our pick. Still need to see these guys in workouts to really have a better idea.
Click to expand...
We also have to remember that these workouts aren’t everything. I pray our scouts don’t become prisoners of the moment either way. Judge them on their entire body of work
 
NewArena said:
We also have to remember that these workouts aren’t everything. I pray our scouts don’t become prisoners of the moment either way. Judge them on their entire body of work
Click to expand...
True, there are many varibles.
Last year we passed on perhaps the best player in the draft not once but twice. With Fox on the board at 5, I was estactic, so not complaining sort of. Anyways, questions if Mitchell can play PG or is he a 6'2" SG, Rick Pitino assured everyone he could play point. Mitchell improved his soph year, he had rave review workouts, interviews and so on, still 12 teams passed on him...what was missed?
Leave no stone unturned, I recon. This is why I want all the top prospects to come in, no two horse race, and hope our scouting department gets out their fine-tooth combs.
This was a beer fueled post, June 21st can't get here soon enough.
 
Last edited:
Bagley III, JJJ, Wendell Carter Jr. And even MPJr All fit well - Im'a go with Jaren Jackson Jr. tho, he's got the most potential defensively .
 
rosa u podne said:
Interesting article about Correlating Big Men’s College Stats to NBA Success. According to the author, the most telling stats for bigs are APG, RPG and BPG.
Click to expand...
I'm warming up to analytics so appreciate the article. With the evolving game for bigman it makes sense to use everytool available.

From just watching them play, which is limited, I like Bagley. He's fast, exciting to watch, can score without without question, but I should review some of the other factors like APG.
 
Last edited:
jiimbob said:
I'm warming up to analytics so appreciate the article. With the evolving game for bigman it makes sense to use everytool available.

From just watching them play, which is limited, I like Bagley. He's fast, exciting to watch, can score without without question, but I should review some of the other factors like APG.
Click to expand...
3 factors mention have a main common factor behind they at least partially measure: Awerness. To lesser extent effort and focus and a litle bit physical factors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Makaveli
Power forwards of the past
Replies
16
Views
773
Insomniacal Fan
Insomniacal Fan
Spike
  • Poll Poll
Power Rankings, Week of 12/5
Replies
0
Views
181
Spike
Spike
Spike
  • Poll Poll
Power Rankings, Week of 12/12
Replies
0
Views
231
Spike
Spike
Spike
  • Poll Poll
NBA Power Rankings Week of 11/14, Sponsored by Juniper Networks*
Replies
4
Views
481
Mr. S£im Citrus
Mr. S£im Citrus
Y
[Rumor] Warriors could acquire $36 million Kings forward via win-now Jonathan Kuminga swap
Replies
3
Views
220
Tetsujin
Tetsujin
Back
Top