Which 2 or 3 players should get minutes at SG?
- Thread starter Prog
- Start date
Heh.
I'm of two minds regarding this question. I don't think BMc is going to lose his spot. It's OK that we're not getting offensive production from the SG spot anyway, since we're getting it from three other positions. As long as he continues to play D, it's not as dire as it once was. (That said, we certainly need improvement offensively.) But here are my thoughts:
1. We have the athletes to go big - Gay can play some minutes at SG, and I believe he did so last night. What then happens is that we potentially have three SF on the floor at once, which isn't too much of a problem really, unless we run into some speedy hot-shooting mini team.
2. More Jimmer minutes. He seems to be doing OK defensively, and if he's not hurting us there than he should see more time. While we can help D off the SF, we can't help D off of PG, which is another problem altogether, and probably why we're in this muck.
I'm of two minds regarding this question. I don't think BMc is going to lose his spot. It's OK that we're not getting offensive production from the SG spot anyway, since we're getting it from three other positions. As long as he continues to play D, it's not as dire as it once was. (That said, we certainly need improvement offensively.) But here are my thoughts:
1. We have the athletes to go big - Gay can play some minutes at SG, and I believe he did so last night. What then happens is that we potentially have three SF on the floor at once, which isn't too much of a problem really, unless we run into some speedy hot-shooting mini team.
2. More Jimmer minutes. He seems to be doing OK defensively, and if he's not hurting us there than he should see more time. While we can help D off the SF, we can't help D off of PG, which is another problem altogether, and probably why we're in this muck.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm assuming we included Outlaw and Williams in this just to disguise the obvious aim of the question?
Entity
Hall of Famer
and Gay
Chupacabra
Starter
I voted mclemore/outlaw. Did everyone catch that Cousins/Williams/Gay/Outlaw/Thomas lineup we went to against Houston? The length/Athleticism/rebounding was outstanding. The way I see it neither Thornton or Jimmer have been doing anything worthwhile so far, we might as well throw six gun out there! This way we're atleast able to continue defending and rebounding.
Hadlowe
Starter
The long guys might have a hard time containing squirrely little 2-guards like Eric Gordon or Monta Ellis. That said, our normal sized 2-guards don't do so well at it either.
If you want consistency from game to game, you shrink the rotation. Right now, the 8-9 man rotation that seems to be shaking itself out looks like the starting set plus Williams, Jimmer, Outlaw, and Acy/Gray depending on opposing matchups. When Landry gets healthy, he probably replaces Outlaw and Acy in the rotation.
That begs the question of what to do with Marcus Thornton. That's a pretty expensive contract to sit so far down the bench, but he is offering nothing right now that Jimmer isn't doing better and Jimmer at least fits the mold of a sixth-man guard bringing the potential for instant offense and being able to switch between a couple of positions. I'd love to move Marcus for a veteran point guard to man the second unit or a defensive big man, but Thornton's contract is a major problem.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well we just got done playing Gay there last time for almost half the game, and he's done some it in his career. Outlaw/Williams though have obviously never played there, nor could they.
Gotta keep starting Ben, especially with no ball-handler in the 2nd unit to take pressure off of him, and hope he gets a comfort level back sooner than later. I would just keep him on a shorter leash and turn to the big/athlete lineup if need be. If he starts off well, great, let him get some burn. If not, then take him out, and let him process what went wrong.
I assume you're seeing a hidden-Jimmer-agenda here, but I assure you there's none. I included all the players on the team who could conceivably play SG, except one who currently needs to play 42 min at PG (Thomas) and one who needs to spend all of his minutes being developed into a PG (McCallum). The reason Jimmer is listed first is because basketball-reference.com sorts the compare-players results by last name.
I personally voted for McLemore (development), Gay (best suited for the job) and Outlaw (agile enough to guard most opposing SG's; can spread the floor better than current-Thornton and shoot above all of the league's SG's without having to create much space or worry about getting blocked). I'm pretty sure that if we had Outlaw and Williams as SG's in the game against the Suns (instead of McLemore and Thornton) we would have won the game. I'm not saying they are really suited for the job, but compared to our current SG's they'd be a clear upgrade on both defense and offense.
As for Jimmer, he's a distant #4 on my list. With that said, if Malone is not willing to try Outlaw at SG, I'd prefer that he gave a large portion of Thornton's minutes to Jimmer. Wouldn't you?
Edit: It's a small sample size, but according to 82games.com, Outlaw's best position this year has been at SG
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You think Williams and Outlaw could have covered Bledsoe? Outlaw could cover some of the bigger or slower SG's but there's no way he could have covered Bledsoe. It's pretty easy to look back on a previous game where the starter made 1 FG and say that we would have won with (insert name) because chances are they would have made more than 1 FG. You're trying to put these guys out of position and it will only make matters worse. There are certain situations where Gay/Outlaw can play SG but it's not going to be the norm.
This current team is not built to win right now. We need a SG that can play and a defensive starting big man. Until then, it doesn't matter what position you play these guys in. They just aren't going to win with 3 1/2 starters and 1 bench player that can play.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Bledsoe is a point guard, so that's not the best example, even if they say he's playing the 2. They could have covered Dragic though, when he was playing with Bledsoe
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I assume you're seeing a hidden-Jimmer-agenda here, but I assure you there's none. I included all the players on the team who could conceivably play SG, except one who currently needs to play 42 min at PG (Thomas) and one who needs to spend all of his minutes being developed into a PG (McCallum). The reason Jimmer is listed first is because basketball-reference.com sorts the compare-players results by last name.
I personally voted for McLemore (development), Gay (best suited for the job) and Outlaw (agile enough to guard most opposing SG's; can spread the floor better than current-Thornton and shoot above all of the league's SG's without having to create much space or worry about getting blocked). I'm pretty sure that if we had Outlaw and Williams as SG's in the game against the Suns (instead of McLemore and Thornton) we would have won the game. I'm not saying they are really suited for the job, but compared to our current SG's they'd be a clear upgrade on both defense and offense.
As for Jimmer, he's a distant #4 on my list. With that said, if Malone is not willing to try Outlaw at SG, I'd prefer that he gave a large portion of Thornton's minutes to Jimmer. Wouldn't you?
Edit: It's a small sample size, but according to 82games.com, Outlaw's best position this year has been at SG
Lots of good thoughts here. I have a question though. How do we know who is playing SG, when we have Gay and Outlaw out there together? Is it based only on who they guard on defense? How would it be decided on offense? Does it really matter? In other words, if we play three players together who play as "wing" styles, in Gay, Outlaw, and Williams,...does it matter who we designate as a "shooting guard"?
To me it's mostly a defense designation. Whoever guards the opponent SG (typically the second shortest opponent player) is our SG. In some cases it should be the slower of the two opponent guards rather than the second shortest one.
King Baller
All-Star
I don't have an issue with the three SF lineup. Just have Gay or Outlaw defend the SG. Many times if the SG does get past either of those guys they can recover and get a block or stop due to their length.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Mclemore and Gay should get the mins @SG to allow Wiliams to play more @SF and barring foul trouble more of JT@PF. I rather watch Williams and Outlaw play SG than Thornton or Jimmer. Outlaw has actually played well and never deserved to loss his spot in the rotation and would be way better playing him than Jimmer and Thornton.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Whatever we need to do to have Gay and Williams playing together a lot, I'm all for.
IMO, our best competition lineup is IT, Gay, Williams, Thompson, Cousins. If we don't need extra size, sub Outlaw for Thompson. If the other team can beat them, you just tip your cap at this point
Reading this thread reminds me of some of the old All-Star games from the 1980s when the league was full of greyhound fast forwards in the 6'5" to 6' 8" size class. They tended to be more slightly built than the players today but they were great athletes that could really get up and down the floor. In some ways, small forwards that can handle the ball well are the best basketball players. They can do everything well. The concept of 3 SFs on the floor at the same time is intriguing and exciting. The Kings are starting to look very athletic. Having a player like Gay replace the weak players that the Kings have had at the 3 for years is a startling difference.
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Well looks like Malone is ending the hockey-substitution style we saw at the beginning of the year with the Gay trade. I’d like to see him cut down the rotation to about 9 men total to give the most productive players the most minutes.
You have your starters IT/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins. Jimmer fills in at backup PG, but needs Rudy out there for ballhandling help. Rudy plays point-forward while Jimmer plays off-the-ball PG. So, 8 minutes into the game, sub out and run a Jimmer/Gay/Outlaw/Williams/Gray lineup. Sub IT, Cousins, McLemore and Thompson back and rest Gay 10 minute left in the half, going with IT/McLemore/Williams/Thompson/Cousins. With 4 minutes left in the half, you bring in Gay back and strategically Malone can make some strategic calls on who he wants the final two guys to be next to IT/Gay/Cousins. It could be McLemore/Williams, it could be Williams/Thompson with Gay at the 2, it could be McLemore/Thompson, and hell if Outlaw is hot you could throw him out there with Gay at the 2.
If you look at the minutes distribution, it comes out roughly to this:
Gay: 38 minutes
IT: 36 minutes
Cousins: 36 minutes
McLemore: 30-36 minutes
Thompson: 30-36 minutes
Williams: 24-32 minutes
Outlaw: 12-16 minutes
Jimmer: 12 minutes
Gray: 12 minutes
Obviously, foul trouble and matchups will dictate the rotation to a certain extent, but here at least is a rough framework you can use to keep Isaiah's minutes in an ideal spot, prevent an all-bench disaster lineup when Jimmer plays PG, and give the young wings (Mclemore and Williams) enough playing time to develop further.
You have your starters IT/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins. Jimmer fills in at backup PG, but needs Rudy out there for ballhandling help. Rudy plays point-forward while Jimmer plays off-the-ball PG. So, 8 minutes into the game, sub out and run a Jimmer/Gay/Outlaw/Williams/Gray lineup. Sub IT, Cousins, McLemore and Thompson back and rest Gay 10 minute left in the half, going with IT/McLemore/Williams/Thompson/Cousins. With 4 minutes left in the half, you bring in Gay back and strategically Malone can make some strategic calls on who he wants the final two guys to be next to IT/Gay/Cousins. It could be McLemore/Williams, it could be Williams/Thompson with Gay at the 2, it could be McLemore/Thompson, and hell if Outlaw is hot you could throw him out there with Gay at the 2.
If you look at the minutes distribution, it comes out roughly to this:
Gay: 38 minutes
IT: 36 minutes
Cousins: 36 minutes
McLemore: 30-36 minutes
Thompson: 30-36 minutes
Williams: 24-32 minutes
Outlaw: 12-16 minutes
Jimmer: 12 minutes
Gray: 12 minutes
Obviously, foul trouble and matchups will dictate the rotation to a certain extent, but here at least is a rough framework you can use to keep Isaiah's minutes in an ideal spot, prevent an all-bench disaster lineup when Jimmer plays PG, and give the young wings (Mclemore and Williams) enough playing time to develop further.
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