Where do our starters rank at each position?

[Bricklayer]

Vs. the rest of the NBA. I thought it would be an interesting enough topic to open up while we wait for something, anything, to happen.

My guesses at starters for other teams may of course be incorrect. Heck my guesses as to starters for our team may be incorrect. you may correct as you deem necessary.

I've got my own ideas, but I'll put them in a separate post so as to leave the lists clean for copy/pasting.

Center
HOU Howard
DET Monroe
POR RLopez
GSW Bogut
LAC Jordan
LAL Kaman
PHX Gortat
UTH Kanter
DEN McGee
DAL Dalembert
SAS Duncan
NOH Smith?
OKC Perkins
MEM MGasol
MIN Pekovic
CHA Jefferson
ORL Vucevix
MIA Oden??
ATL Horford
WSH Okafor
BKN BLopez
NYK Chandler
PHI Hawes
BOS Olynyk??
CLE Bynum
IND Hibbert
CHI Noah
TOR Valanciunas
MIL Sanders
SAC Cousins


Power Forward
HOU Asik??
DET Drummond
POR Aldridge
GSW Lee
LAC Griffin
LAL PGasol
PHX Frye? Morris?
UTH Favors
DEN Fareid
DAL Nowitzki
SAS Splitter
NOH Davis
OKC Ibaka
MEM Randolph
MIN Love
CHA Biymbo? Zeller?
ORL Davis
MIA Bosh
ATL Milsap
WSH Nene
BKN Garnett
NYK Anthony
PHI Noel
BOS Bass
CLE Thompson
IND West
CHI Boozer
TOR Johnson
MIL Henson
SAC Thompson or SAC Landry or SAC Patterson

Small Forward
HOU Parsons
DET Smith
POR Batum
GSW Igoudala
LAC Dudley
LAL Young??
PHX Beasley? Butler?
UTH Hayward
DEN Gallinari
DAL Marion
SAS Leonard
NOH Aminu? Reke?
OKC Durant
MEM Prince
MIN Brewer? Budinger?
CHA Kidd-Gilchrist
ORL Harris
MIA LeBron
ATL Korver?
WSH Porter
BKN Pierce
NYK World Peace
PHI Turner
BOS Green
CLE Bennett
IND Granger
CHI Deng
TOR Gay
MIL Ilyasova
SAC Mbah a Moute

Shooting Guard
HOU Harden
DET Cladwell-Pope? Stuckey? Billups?
POR Matthews
GSW Thompson
LAC Reddick
LAL Kobe
PHX Brown
UTH Burks
DEN Miller?
DAL Ellis
SAS Green
NOH Gordon
OKC Sefalosha
MEM Allen
MIN Martin
CHA Henderson
ORL Afflalo
MIA Wade
ATL L.Williams?
WSH Beal
BKN Johnson
NYK Smith
PHI Richardson?
BOS Crawford
CLE Waiters
IND George
CHI Dunleavy
TOR DeRozan
MIL Mayo
SAC Thornton

Point Guard
HOU Lin
DET Jennings
POR Lillard
GSW Curry
LAC Paul
LAL Nash
PHX Dragic
UTH Burke
DEN Lawson
DAL Calderon
SAS Parker
NOH Holiday
OKC Westbrook
MEM Conley
MIN Rubio
CHA Walker
ORL Nelson
MIA Chalmers
ATL Teague
WSH Wall
BKN Deron
NYK Felton
PHI Carter-Williams
BOS Rondo
CLE Irving
IND Hill
CHI Rose
TOR Lowry
MIL Knight
SAC Vasquez

 

[KingMilz]

Cousins near the top, Thompson/Patterson/Landry middle/lower tier (mainly lower) of PF's, Thornton lower tier, Vasquez middle tier and Luke Richard lower tier

 

[PurpleHaze]

I don't know where Kings starters rank vs. rest of league or who will be starter at two, possibly three positions. I would not be surprised if Salmons starts at SG just because of his D with Thornton off guard sub - like before. Same thing at SF with possibly Salmons starting there instead of Mbah a Moute. The only absolute sure fire Kings starter is Cousins, with next most probable starter, Vasquez, then probably Thompson - but who knows at PF. I will be interested in what others think and how they rate players.

 

[xrzn]

Have our starters even been solidified yet?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

alot of people seem to downtalk Thornton or forget about the guy. but im not going to lie, id take him over ALOT of those guys you have listed as starting SG's

 

[gunks]

Our starters rank somewhere between Wiggins and a top 10 pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

Have our starters even been solidified yet?

As much as anybody's on August 6th. We've only got the one position where there are multiple viables at the moment. But you can make up whatever starting lineup you like. If you want to say IT/McLemore/Salmons are the littles and then compare that against the rest of the league be my guest.

 

[Turgenev]

With the exception of cousins and maybe Thornton, they are all below average. Especially if considered on individual merit.

 

[Section 101]

With the exception of cousins and maybe Thornton, they are all below average. Especially if considered on individual merit.

sorry they are not below average. They are average or above on offensive. It's the defensive side that they need the work which is on the coach getting the right scheme for them.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I think I see what may be one of Brick's underlying points to the thread. Sometimes the tendency is to have a more ideal outlook regarding some of the players on our roster because they are ours, but when you put it into perspective by comparing them position wise to the rest of the league it just looks more daunting

 

[Bricklayer]

Weenies all!

Highly rough, and I won't stand behind my rough groupings of other players vis a vis each other, was neighborhooding.

I'll highlight in red guys in the neighborhood who could be passed/or pass.

Center
HOU Howard
SAS Duncan
<--------- SAC Cousins
CLE Bynum*
IND Hibbert
BKN BLopez
MEM MGasol
CHI Noah
ATL Horford
DET Monroe
MIN Pekovic
CHA Jefferson
GSW Bogut
NYK Chandler
ORL Vucevic
MIL Sanders
PHX Gortat
TOR Valanciunas
LAC Jordan
DAL Dalembert
DEN McGee
UTH Kanter
WSH Okafor
LAL Kaman
POR RLopez
MIA Oden??
PHI Hawes
OKC Perkins
NOH Smith?
BOS Olynyk??


Power Forward
MIN Love
LAC Griffin
POR Aldridge
NYK Anthony
MEM Randolph
GSW Lee
DAL Nowitzki
NOH Davis
LAL PGasol
MIA Bosh
OKC Ibaka
HOU Asik??
BKN Garnett
IND West
DET Drummond
ATL Milsap
WSH Nene
CHI Boozer
UTH Favors
DEN Fareid
SAS Splitter
CLE Thompson
PHI Noel
<----------SAC Thompson or SAC Landry or SAC Patterson
ORL Davis
TOR Johnson
MIL Henson
BOS Bass
CHA Biymbo? Zeller?
PHX Frye? Morris?


Small Forward

MIA LeBron
OKC Durant
CHI Deng
TOR Gay
DET Smith
GSW Igoudala
BKN Pierce
POR Batum
DEN Gallinari
HOU Parsons
IND Granger
UTH Hayward
ORL Harris
SAS Leonard
DAL Marion
PHI Turner
MIL Ilyasova
BOS Green
PHX Beasley? Butler?
CHA Kidd-Gilchrist
MEM Prince
CLE Bennett
WSH Porter
NYK World Peace
<--------------------- SAC Mbah a Moute
LAC Dudley
NOH Aminu?
ATL Korver?
MIN Brewer? Budinger?
LAL Young??
<---------------------if it were Salmons


Shooting Guard
MIA Wade
HOU Harden
LAL Kobe
IND George
DAL Ellis
NOH Gordon
MIN Martin
GSW Thompson
BKN Johnson
MEM Allen
NYK Smith
TOR DeRozan
MIL Mayo
<------------ SAC Thornton
POR Matthews
ORL Afflalo
WSH Beal
CHA Henderson
LAC Reddick
DEN Miller?
CLE Waiters
SAS Green
CHI Dunleavy
BOS Crawford
<---------------------if it were McLemore
UTH Burks
OKC Sefalosha
DET Cladwell-Pope? Stuckey? Billups?
ATL L.Williams?
PHX Brown
PHI Richardson?


Point Guard
LAC Paul
OKC Westbrook
CHI Rose
GSW Curry
CLE Irving
SAS Parker
BOS Rondo
BKN Deron
WSH Wall
NOH Holiday
DEN Lawson
POR Lillard
MEM Conley
MIN Rubio
NYK Felton
TOR Lowry
LAL Nash
DET Jennings
ATL Teague
<-----------SAC Vasquez
DAL Calderon
PHX Dragic
CHA Walker
HOU Lin
IND Hill
<---------------------if it were IT
MIA Chalmers
MIL Knight
ORL Nelson
UTH Burke
PHI Carter-Williams

 

[Turgenev]

sorry they are not below average. They are average or above on offensive. It's the defensive side that they need the work which is on the coach getting the right scheme for them.

I would disagree. If average is the middle of the bell curve, then at least 3 of our starters are below average. Am in agreement with Brick's table above re ranking our starters.

 

[Cecil]

I pretty much agree with Bricklayer, except Cousins. I'd stick him above Monroe. Not sure how you got him above Marc Gasol. Cousins needs to get a better offensive game near the rim and do everything better on the defensive side, except rebounding. Cousins is a monster battling for rebounds.

 

[pshn80]

Thanks., Brick, for sharing all this. The only thing that hit me was how high you had Thornton. You are much more likely to be right than I but I would put him at the bottom. I readily admit my prejudice.

 

[KingMilz]

@Brick you really think Thornton all around is better than Gerald Henderson, Aaron Afflalo and Wes Matthews, all 3 of those guys are two way players? I would move Luke 1 spot down under Dudley and that's about right and assuming Big Baby is healthy I would have him above Thompson, but I agree with you for the most part we got similar sort of rankings.

 

[ESP47]

Wow those lists really show how weak SG is and how strong the PF spot is at this point. Jason Thompson is one of our better players and he's one of the worst PF's in the league. Pretty depressing to see how low most of our guys are because I agree with most of them.

I'd have Cousins behind Howard, Duncan, Hibbert, Lopez, and Gasol at this point.

 

[est.1999]

Dwight Howard is too high.

 

[jcwkings]

Cousins is not better than Hibbert, Noah or Gasol overall. Offensively sure he is better, but everything else he is quite a bit below them. Cousins and Lopez would be a toss up for 6th atm.

 

[mac]

Wow those lists really show how weak SG is and how strong the PF spot is at this point. Jason Thompson is one of our better players and he's one of the worst PF's in the league. Pretty depressing to see how low most of our guys are because I agree with most of them.

I'd have Cousins behind Howard, Duncan, Hibbert, Lopez, and Gasol at this point.

It's important to look at the lineup overall though. While JT may be behind a lot of starting PFs those teams provably have Cs that are much lower down the list than Cousins.

 

[Kingsfan23]

If JT is ranked that low it is due to the strength of the position around the league

 

[KingsFanGER]

To me it is impossible to compare players like that. There are too many variables one have to take into account, that aren't reflected by statistics.
If i judge Monroe i have to take into account, that he doesnt play the same role on offense as Cousins in a team, where Jennings and Smith will demand their part of the possible shots.
If i compare Danny Green or Wesley Matthews to a guy like Thornton i have to take into account, that Thornton may be pretty similar to them on offense, but Green and Matthews are very good defenders and basically play the 3-and-D-role on their teams, while Thornton is a volume scorer.
George Hill might not be a elite playmaker and PG, but he is one of the best defenders at the PG-position and can guard 1's and 2's if necessary. The lack of playmaking is compensated by George and Stephenson. So while George may be individually weaker than a guy like Lillard or Lawson, he fits way better into the teamconcept of the Pacers.
What really matters is, how the individual players work as a team. This league is not about talent alone, but about teamwork, unselfishness and first of all teamdefense, especially for smallmarket-teams like Memphis, Indiana or the Kings.

 

[Section 101]

I would disagree. If average is the middle of the bell curve, then at least 3 of our starters are below average. Am in agreement with Brick's table above re ranking our starters.

PER. Average NBA player = 15

*I removed Evans from the PG's and added him to the SG for the rankings since that's what he played last year.

**The rankings include backups with lower mins per game. So someone like JT and Patterson would be higher on a starters list.

PG
IT - #15 17.58
Vasquez - #25 16.34

SG

MT = #12 16.32

SF

This is the big question area and weakest position in the league. Only 23 SF had a per over 15.

PF

Landry #16 17.60
Patterson - #34 15.23
JT - #39 14.64

Center

Cuz - #10 20.21 * 4 players played 20 mins or less ahead of him.

 

[Turgenev]

PER. Average NBA player = 15

*I removed Evans from the PG's and added him to the SG for the rankings since that's what he played last year.

**The rankings include backups with lower mins per game. So someone like JT and Patterson would be higher on a starters list.

PG
IT - #15 17.58
Vasquez - #25 16.34

SG

MT = #12 16.32

SF

This is the big question area and weakest position in the league. Only 23 SF had a per over 15.

PF

Landry #16 17.60
Patterson - #34 15.23
JT - #39 14.64

Center

Cuz - #10 20.21 * 4 players played 20 mins or less ahead of him.

Ok fair enough.

 

[DesertFox]

PER. Average NBA player = 15

*I removed Evans from the PG's and added him to the SG for the rankings since that's what he played last year.

**The rankings include backups with lower mins per game. So someone like JT and Patterson would be higher on a starters list.

PG
IT - #15 17.58
Vasquez - #25 16.34

SG

MT = #12 16.32

SF

This is the big question area and weakest position in the league. Only 23 SF had a per over 15.

PF

Landry #16 17.60
Patterson - #34 15.23
JT - #39 14.64

Center

Cuz - #10 20.21 * 4 players played 20 mins or less ahead of him.

And that is based on offense and blocks/steals. On D, every potential starter is below average to worse, with the exception of Mbah a Boute and maybe JT if he starts at PF.

So you have Cuz, who is top 10 with top 3 potential, 3 below avg starters but great backups at PF, and then average starters, at best, on the perimeter.
And really, unlike other young teams, McLemore and Cuz are the only guys with real upside to contribute much more.

The FO must be really banking that Smart was that horrible and Malone is that much better, because this team is not (yet) bad enough to tank, but is no better than last year.

 

[Section 101]

And that is based on offense and blocks/steals. On D, every potential starter is below average to worse, with the exception of Mbah a Boute and maybe JT if he starts at PF.

So you have Cuz, who is top 10 with top 3 potential, 3 below avg starters but great backups at PF, and then average starters, at best, on the perimeter.
And really, unlike other young teams, McLemore and Cuz are the only guys with real upside to contribute much more.

The FO must be really banking that Smart was that horrible and Malone is that much better, because this team is not (yet) bad enough to tank, but is no better than last year.

Do they have good or great individual defenders? No. But that doesn't mean they can't be a good defensive team. Look at last years warriors as an example. Any good or great individual defenders?

 

[KingMilz]

Do they have good or great individual defenders? No. But that doesn't mean they can't be a good defensive team. Look at last years warriors as an example. Any good or great individual defenders?

They had Bogut who is a elite defender, Draymond Green, Festus who were both good defenders and Klay Thompson/Harrison Barnes actually proved to be above average defenders themselves so = yeah they actually did have numerous good defensive players.

 

[HndsmCelt]

This discussion takes me back to 2003-2004 when we learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that having the best player at every position was NOT as important as team play. (For you kids that was the year when the Lakers started, Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton. Only to be publicly humiliated in a coast to coast butt whipping at the hands of a bunch of discards from around the league who made a heck of a TEAM in Detroit, including 6th man of the year Corliss Williamson.)

I have no idea if that is the plan in the works, but I will say this, the addition of Vasques and Mbah a Boute or even Landry could make sense IF the team play is improved. At which point none of us will care that 4 of our 5 starters are in the lower half of the league for their position.

 

[sdballer]

This discussion takes me back to 2003-2004 when we learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that having the best player at every position was NOT as important as team play. (For you kids that was the year when the Lakers started, Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton. Only to be publicly humiliated in a coast to coast butt whipping at the hands of a bunch of discards from around the league who made a heck of a TEAM in Detroit, including 6th man of the year Corliss Williamson.)

I have no idea if that is the plan in the works, but I will say this, the addition of Vasques and Mbah a Boute or even Landry could make sense IF the team play is improved. At which point none of us will care that 4 of our 5 starters are in the lower half of the league for their position.

Malone and Payton were not anywhere near the tops of their positions that season.

 

[Section 101]

They had Bogut who is a elite defender, Draymond Green, Festus who were both good defenders and Klay Thompson/Harrison Barnes actually proved to be above average defenders themselves so = yeah they actually did have numerous good defensive players.

Bogut is not an elite defender. Any elite defender would get a vote on this list somewhere. http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/13/all-defensive-team-official-release/index.html

I don't see any of the warriors there.

EDIT:

Here is the previous years list. http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/23/nba-all-defensive-team-2011-2012/index.html

Notice the last guy on the list with 1 vote.

And the year before. http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/09/2010-11-all-defensive-teams/index.html

C. Hayes had a few votes. That guy above had 2 votes. Oh I see Bogut got 1 vote pre-injury. but so did Nene.

 

[Hadlowe]

This discussion takes me back to 2003-2004 when we learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that having the best player at every position was NOT as important as team play. (For you kids that was the year when the Lakers started, Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton. Only to be publicly humiliated in a coast to coast butt whipping at the hands of a bunch of discards from around the league who made a heck of a TEAM in Detroit, including 6th man of the year Corliss Williamson.)

I have no idea if that is the plan in the works, but I will say this, the addition of Vasques and Mbah a Boute or even Landry could make sense IF the team play is improved. At which point none of us will care that 4 of our 5 starters are in the lower half of the league for their position.

The type of chemistry you saw on that Detroit team, the current Spurs roster, or even the Kings team from early 2000's is lightning in a bottle in a lot of ways (there's no way to predict whether personalities will mesh). But on paper, those teams still made sense. They had enough shooting, rebounding and defense to be able to work together as a team, even if the pieces on the team weren't prototypical.

The Wizards have spent the last half-decade trying to do the same thing. Personality clashes killed their teams who, on paper, looked pretty good together but just could not play as a unit.

The difference between superstar teams that don't fit and "team concept" teams that don't fit is that superstar teams get knocked out in the second round of the playoffs while team concept teams get 35 wins and illegal gun charges.

Right now, we are a "team concept" team that doesn't even work on paper.

Other than Cousins, I don't put any of the potential starters on our roster as being above #20 in the league. And Thornton I would rank somewhere near the bottom of the league for 2-guards. His game is just death for "team concept" play. Selfish on offense and no defense.