When Do We Blow It Up?

[TaxMan]

Trading Fox for a collection of recent lottery picks on rookie contracts + multiple firsts isn't exactly a firesale if we try to build around these guys + Domas and Keegan and Carter and Monk.

In some ways it's more like trading Richmond or J-Will, you're not giving up as much as you are rolling the urgency clock back an hour or two.

It is a tough argument since Fox is the closest thing we have to a superstar, but if the consensus is that this team is failing because its poorly constructed from a balanced roster perspective, then I could see the right move possibly being a slight step back this year but taking two steps forward next year. That’s a big gamble on whether you can turn Fox into say Amen and Reed and those two are the real deal long term. I’d doubt either ever gets to the level of fox, but our roster is in such a dire need of a second forward with length and athleticism that it might end up being the sum is bigger than the parts.

I do think giving Fox a massive extension (especially if it’s the super max) would result in him never living up to it. We might be better off if our hands are forced on that decision. I see Fox at a similar level as Jalen Brown. Jalen on his own is not worth that contract; however as a piece of the current Celtics roster it is a no brainer. Difference is we don’t have the Celtics roster around Daaron and likely never will (the hope and a prayer was that Keegan would rise to that level, but I don’t think that’s going to happen).

 

[iowamcnabb]

Apparently the Nets and Raps have asked about Fox

 

[PacMan]

Apparently the Nets and Raps have asked about Fox

Sure, give us Scottie Barnes and it’s a go

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I saw Fox's interview today about how we don't control our own destiny and need help from other teams. 30 games in!!!

What kind of star player says these things so early. Personally matters just as much as talent in a lot of cases. I can't imagine a Jimmy Bulter or Chris Paul saying such a thing. I can see a Harden or Comelo Anthony saying this.

Fox is good when it's good and a weight when it's bad. Guy has smug all over him. Sad because his talent amazes me. His attitude however has me ready to move on.

This is why altho Hali imo was a lessor talent overall, he lights up the dam building and you feel ready to go to work, to battle with a guy like that. Nobody here can tell me they get the same vibe from Fox

 

[fansinceday1]

I saw Fox's interview today about how we don't control our own destiny and need help from other teams. 30 games in!!!

What kind of star player says these things so early. Personally matters just as much as talent in a lot of cases. I can't imagine a Jimmy Bulter or Chris Paul saying such a thing. I can see a Harden or Comelo Anthony saying this.

Fox is good when it's good and a weight when it's bad. Guy has smug all over him. Sad because his talent amazes me. His attitude however has me ready to move on.

This is why altho Hali imo was a lessor talent overall, he lights up the dam building and you feel ready to go to work, to battle with a guy like that. Nobody here can tell me they get the same vibe from Fox

this franchise is always a day late and a dollar short.
Whatever makes sense, they won’t do, so, I expect the kings to hold onto Fox hoping that he chooses to stay. Then he’s gonna walk and the kings are gonna be left looking like total morons, again. If we can bet on Fox leaving I’m at least gonna make some money off the kings screwing up.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I saw Fox's interview today about how we don't control our own destiny and need help from other teams. 30 games in!!!

I gotta admit that was pretty weird. He was so annoyed with the previous questions from Anthony that he Freudian slipped his way into the end of the season.

 

[See_Hanks]

I told everyone that DeRozan isn't someone that would work well with what the Kings have. Sure enough the Kings are better with Barnes over DeRozan even though DeRozan is better than Barnes. It's not about the player, and this proves it. It's about fit.

 

[Dongoodboy]

It is a tough argument since Fox is the closest thing we have to a superstar, but if the consensus is that this team is failing because its poorly constructed from a balanced roster perspective, then I could see the right move possibly being a slight step back this year but taking two steps forward next year. That’s a big gamble on whether you can turn Fox into say Amen and Reed and those two are the real deal long term. I’d doubt either ever gets to the level of fox, but our roster is in such a dire need of a second forward with length and athleticism that it might end up being the sum is bigger than the parts.

I do think giving Fox a massive extension (especially if it’s the super max) would result in him never living up to it. We might be better off if our hands are forced on that decision. I see Fox at a similar level as Jalen Brown. Jalen on his own is not worth that contract; however as a piece of the current Celtics roster it is a no brainer. Difference is we don’t have the Celtics roster around Daaron and likely never will (the hope and a prayer was that Keegan would rise to that level, but I don’t think that’s going to happen).

The poor team construction has pushed us to this stage. I watched Denver's game, Peyton Watson, Julian Strawther, Hunter Tyson played signicficant minutes against us. They were draft 29th, 30th and signed as FA. All are taller than 6-7 and under 24. Elite wings are scarce but you can get some servicable ones in various ways.Why Monte hated wings so much is beyond me.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I told everyone that DeRozan isn't someone that would work well with what the Kings have. Sure enough the Kings are better with Barnes over DeRozan even though DeRozan is better than Barnes. It's not about the player, and this proves it. It's about fit.

I dont see DeRozan as the problem at all. We are missing shots.Open ones. But chemistry yes I agree. Again I don't think fox is someone who comes off as easy to talk to. Barnes was that glue guy you could talk to when struggling. There isn't that vet on this team to take struggling players under there wing. Sure Derozen is a seasoned vet, but it's not his team and he hasn't been here long enough to fill that need.

I love fox, I got his jersey, but I'm just no longer a fan of him leading this team as that number 1 guy. In fact I think sabonis is better and more important. I ask myself. Who would I rather see injured and who would have biggest impact if so. It's a pretty easy id rather have sobpnis out there and monk taking fox pg spot till davin gets ready.

Who would take Sabonis spot. Len?

 

[sgniK]

Wait, that means another 16 years for the local fans.

 

[GWD]

DeRosen is not the root of the current problems. Neither is the team's construction, IMO. Sure, there are improvements that can be made but those discussion points are soft targets that could be overcome or at least minimized by applying some creativity.

Since Brown's first year I have lamented that he has his system and if a player doesn't fit that system then it is SOL. Brown is determined to try to fit square pegs into round holes. Changing the system to fit the players' skills has been my mantra for two years now. Either Brown doesn't know or accept a modified system or he considers his "holy" system sacrosanct and changing it would admit its failure with the current roster.

Brown's contention that he is "searching" applies to seeking players that fit his way. Rather, he should be searching for a system that fits the players abilities.

 

[dude12]

DeRosen is not the root of the current problems. Neither is the team's construction, IMO. Sure, there are improvements that can be made but those discussion points are soft targets that could be overcome or at least minimized by applying some creativity.

Since Brown's first year I have lamented that he has his system and if a player doesn't fit that system then it is SOL. Brown is determined to try to fit square pegs into round holes. Changing the system to fit the players' skills has been my mantra for two years now. Either Brown doesn't know or accept a modified system or he considers his "holy" system sacrosanct and changing it would admit its failure with the current roster.

Brown's contention that he is "searching" applies to seeking players that fit his way. Rather, he should be searching for a system that fits the players abilities.

The problem with this is they have had success doing what his system is. Offensively, there is a lot of freedom and players are encouraged to take the open 3. What player doesn’t like that? Also, the offense has been ranked around 7th recently. Defense has improved to middle of pack. Not his systems in place.

Is it Brown? Maybe, but I yet to see or hear anything concrete in regards to that. Just yesterday he’s on video taking ownership for the teams failures.

Is it the players tuning him out? Could be but no evidence on this other than speculation

Is it the players giving up on him? Last game I saw players diving to the floor going after 50/50 balls including Fox. That is usually a sign of a team that hasn’t quit. But the second half just broke the team once again.

Heres what everyone should start considering. Our players just aren’t good enough. I’ve watched the defensive breakdown videos. Domas has been super bad on pick and roll. Team defense is not good as of late.

Heres another thought, why is it Fox can’t take this team to the next level? Literally all the similar stud PG’s have done so at some point. I like Fox a lot but he’s also been here the longest. Just a question.

DDR was feasting earlier but has been bad since the back issue. FYI, guys who hurry to come back from being injured is also a sign of not quitting in the team

Is there an issue with Domas? Would be hard to believe.

i do think the Klutch issue is a problem especially if, say a Malik Monk just took a team friendly contract to stay here with the org and his Buddy Fox. I think this could be bigger than people realize.

All I know is the team seems to have enough talent, a good coach, a willing GM, a fanbase that supports, it’s a mystery.

 

[GWD]

The problem with this is they have had success doing what his system is. Offensively, there is a lot of freedom and players are encouraged to take the open 3. What player doesn’t like that? Also, the offense has been ranked around 7th recently. Defense has improved to middle of pack. Not his systems in place.

Is it Brown? Maybe, but I yet to see or hear anything concrete in regards to that. Just yesterday he’s on video taking ownership for the teams failures.

Is it the players tuning him out? Could be but no evidence on this other than speculation

Is it the players giving up on him? Last game I saw players diving to the floor going after 50/50 balls including Fox. That is usually a sign of a team that hasn’t quit. But the second half just broke the team once again.

Heres what everyone should start considering. Our players just aren’t good enough. I’ve watched the defensive breakdown videos. Domas has been super bad on pick and roll. Team defense is not good as of late.

Heres another thought, why is it Fox can’t take this team to the next level? Literally all the similar stud PG’s have done so at some point. I like Fox a lot but he’s also been here the longest. Just a question.

DDR was feasting earlier but has been bad since the back issue. FYI, guys who hurry to come back from being injured is also a sign of not quitting in the team

Is there an issue with Domas? Would be hard to believe.

i do think the Klutch issue is a problem especially if, say a Malik Monk just took a team friendly contract to stay here with the org and his Buddy Fox. I think this could be bigger than people realize.

All I know is the team seems to have enough talent, a good coach, a willing GM, a fanbase that supports, it’s a mystery.

A thoughful post. Mostly agree except for some of the final sentence. But the "mystery" factor is the reason why the speculation is rampant.

A bit contradicory that you find the players to "have enought talent" and yet earlier find, "Our players aren't good enough." However, both could be true if the opinion is that players are somehow not good enough to use their talents.

 

[iowamcnabb]

How about Jimmy, Jovic and Ware for Fox and Kev? We get Jimmy for likely 2 years and if he walks we get a promising big and a shooting forward plus a ton of cap space

 

[Rob-The-Great]

How about we get zion. That is the most level trade as far as talent is concerned. Yes I know injury prone. But imagine sabonis next to zion. And Devon stating at pg. I'd love it

 

[SacTownKid]

How about Jimmy, Jovic and Ware for Fox and Kev? We get Jimmy for likely 2 years and if he walks we get a promising big and a shooting forward plus a ton of cap space

Eh, the idea of building a team around two 35 year olds that kind of mirror eachother offensively and adding two so so prospects doesn't excite me haha. Better than the Kings trading picks/youth for someone like Jimmy in a desperation move though.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Eh, the idea of building a team around two 35 year olds that kind of mirror eachother offensively and adding two so so prospects doesn't excite me haha. Better than the Kings trading picks/youth for someone like Jimmy in a desperation move though.

yeh it’s not perfect but you get a trial with Jimmy and then you could also flip him this offseason. Unless he is willing to sign with the Nets (doubt it) or a midlevel deal with a contender (also doubt it) he is going to needs sign and trade to get where he wants. Now it’s ware (shooting big/rim protector) jovic (shooting big forward) and then whatever you get for Jimmy. Not my first choice but just another possibility

 

[serbiangoat]

yeh it’s not perfect but you get a trial with Jimmy and then you could also flip him this offseason. Unless he is willing to sign with the Nets (doubt it) or a midlevel deal with a contender (also doubt it) he is going to needs sign and trade to get where he wants. Now it’s ware (shooting big/rim protector) jovic (shooting big forward) and then whatever you get for Jimmy. Not my first choice but just another possibility

Jimmy wants a max deal and at 35 thats basically franchise suicide, if you trading with the Heat it's for Herro and stuff. Herro and Carter compliment each other.(Herro works well with Sabonis too) Miami can make a new "big 3" by trading Jimmy elsewhere and go Fox/Bam/whoever.

Other option is a 3 way with the Suns (would not do) where the Kings get Beal plus youth (anything from picks Dunn/Ware,Jovic/Jaquez) where Jimmy goes to the Suns and Fox to Miami. Beal has shown nothing in a while in terms of helping a team and only looked good next to John Wall

The best option of course keeping Fox and him extending

 

[iowamcnabb]

Jimmy wants a max deal and at 35 thats basically franchise suicide, if you trading with the Heat it's for Herro and stuff. Herro and Carter compliment each other.(Herro works well with Sabonis too) Miami can make a new "big 3" by trading Jimmy elsewhere and go Fox/Bam/whoever.

Other option is a 3 way with the Suns (would not do) where the Kings get Beal plus youth (anything from picks Dunn/Ware,Jovic/Jaquez) where Jimmy goes to the Suns and Fox to Miami. Beal has shown nothing in a while in terms of helping a team and only looked good next to John Wall

The best option of course keeping Fox and him extending

yeh I wouldn’t max him out, Id see what he can do with us this year and then look to trade him. He needs a team to do a sign and trade, no teams other than the nets have cap space and they have no use.

It’s not going to happen anyway, the other teams hopefully have more to offer us if we have to make a trade

 

[Jdbraver137]

How about we get zion. That is the most level trade as far as talent is concerned. Yes I know injury prone. But imagine sabonis next to zion. And Devon stating at pg. I'd love it

I’d do Fox for Zion and Huerter and Derozan for Ben Simmons.. then hope for cooper flag.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

[

The poor team construction has pushed us to this stage. I watched Denver's game, Peyton Watson, Julian Strawther, Hunter Tyson played signicficant minutes against us. They were draft 29th, 30th and signed as FA. All are taller than 6-7 and under 24. Elite wings are scarce but you can get some servicable ones in various ways.Why Monte hated wings so much is beyond me.

Was watching Dlo/KC when they lost there cool and a great point was brought up, why do we always say wings are scarce or hard to get but every team we play has 3-4 wings. Something ain’t adding up

 

[Joshyjosh31]

How about we get zion. That is the most level trade as far as talent is concerned. Yes I know injury prone. But imagine sabonis next to zion. And Devon stating at pg. I'd love it

I’ve brought it up and people hate it for some reason it’s min boggling we’re getting a guy more talented than fox ever was for peanuts on the dollar instead of rebuilding.

Say you trade Fox for Herro, Ware, Jamie Jamieze, and picks then trade Derozan, Keegan, Ellis, and a couple first rounders. That teams better and can win playoff rounds with a healthy Zion even if he gives us two healthy years out of like four.

Carter/Monk
Herro
Jamie
Zion
Sabonis/Ware

 

[TheMobb]

I’ve brought it up and people hate it for some reason it’s min boggling we’re getting a guy more talented than fox ever was for peanuts on the dollar instead of rebuilding.

Say you trade Fox for Herro, Ware, Jamie Jamieze, and picks then trade Derozan, Keegan, Ellis, and a couple first rounders. That teams better and can win playoff rounds with a healthy Zion even if he gives us two healthy years out of like four.

Carter/Monk
Herro
Jamie
Zion
Sabonis/Ware

I don’t hate the idea of gambling on Zion for cheap. The problem is the fit with Sabonis. The defense would be bad, then the spacing on offense would be another issue.

 

[ESP47]

I’ve brought it up and people hate it for some reason it’s min boggling we’re getting a guy more talented than fox ever was for peanuts on the dollar instead of rebuilding.

Say you trade Fox for Herro, Ware, Jamie Jamieze, and picks then trade Derozan, Keegan, Ellis, and a couple first rounders. That teams better and can win playoff rounds with a healthy Zion even if he gives us two healthy years out of like four.

Carter/Monk
Herro
Jamie
Zion
Sabonis/Ware

No way Heat gives up all that for Fox. One could easily argue that Herro is actually playing better than Fox this year.

 

[gunks]

Yes, we never made the horrible mistake of trading Fox for Simmons, so let's undo that by trading him for Zion.

 

[GWD]

If the Kings lose to the Pistons and then the Lakers (yet again) that may accelerate the "When Do We Blow It UP" timeline. No hardened King's fan wants that to happen, of course, but it would likely ignite a bonfire under a few management-types collective behinds.

Fox would probably step closer to leaving and the players would be looking over their shoulders for a trade out of Sacramento up to the deadline in February.

A major winning streak is the preferable outcome in the near future. Personally, I find this team to be quite talented and capable and would not at all be surprised at all if they happen to experience success. It wouldn't take much winning to make the play-in, or even the playoff outright but there are so many variables to make any predictions suspect.

 

[SacTownKid]

[


Was watching Dlo/KC when they lost there cool and a great point was brought up, why do we always say wings are scarce or hard to get but every team we play has 3-4 wings. Something ain’t adding up

Having wings and prioritizing them are two different things also. Hardly any teams are out there running the "wings" they are talking about to that level. This is also partly looking at the holes on the roster as a reasoning, yet ignoring the same results when the Kings are playing big. The C's only rely on two wings and that's their stars. They have a switchable guard core and they're the bar right now. The Nuggets have basically 1 since Aaron Gordon is far more playmaking PF. OG is another unique one in NY, those aren't typically what you can find lying around hence why OG had so much interest for years. Only so many of those players exist. And the one super "wing" team in New Orleans is on the verge of going bust, so what about results? The Cavs arguably don't even play a single true "wing". Okoro is more of a SG/SF. If you go by some of the best teams you want a 2/3 or 3/2, not a 3/4 or 4/3. That's the new thing. It's actually been trending that way for awhile now. I guess it all comes down to what people think DeRozan is, sorry, he's been a SF/PF for a number of years now. Kind of like what Vince Carter and even Jordan eventually transitioned to as they lost a step athletically.

 

[sactowndog]

[


Was watching Dlo/KC when they lost there cool and a great point was brought up, why do we always say wings are scarce or hard to get but every team we play has 3-4 wings. Something ain’t adding up

because to draft them you have to tank or stretch. Monte doesn’t do either

 

[twslam07]

What if we zig when they expect us to zag? Perhaps Durant could be had considering PHX is considerably over the 2nd apron and are only hovering around .500?

It’d probably take Murray, Carter, and picks at the very least to get Durant. But then I’d probably look at a 3 way trade that sends DeRozan to LAC, picks to BKN, and DFS to SAC.

That would leave us with a roster of…

PG - Fox / Monk / McLaughlin
SG - Ellis / Jones
SF - DFS / McDermott
PF - Durant / Crowder / Jones
C - Sabonis / Len / Robinson

• Durant gives us a championship level #1 option
• Fox as a #2 option would be elite
• Sabonis in that #3 option/facilitator role would be ideal
• Monk is elite as a sixth man
• Fox, Ellis, DFS, & Durant is a lot of defense & length around Sabonis to cover for his deficiencies
• Ellis/Monk, DFS, Durant & Sabonis is good spacing around Fox. Fox, Ellis/Monk, DFS, & Sabonis is good spacing around Durant. Fox, Ellis/Monk, DFS, & Durant is good spacing around Sabonis.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

What if we zig when they expect us to zag? Perhaps Durant could be had considering PHX is considerably over the 2nd apron and are only hovering around .500?

It’d probably take Murray, Carter, and picks at the very least to get Durant. But then I’d probably look at a 3 way trade that sends DeRozan to LAC, picks to BKN, and DFS to SAC.

That would leave us with a roster of…

PG - Fox / Monk / McLaughlin
SG - Ellis / Jones
SF - DFS / McDermott
PF - Durant / Crowder / Jones
C - Sabonis / Len / Robinson

• Durant gives us a championship level #1 option
• Fox as a #2 option would be elite
• Sabonis in that #3 option/facilitator role would be ideal
• Monk is elite as a sixth man
• Fox, Ellis, DFS, & Durant is a lot of defense & length around Sabonis to cover for his deficiencies
• Ellis/Monk, DFS, Durant & Sabonis is good spacing around Fox. Fox, Ellis/Monk, DFS, & Sabonis is good spacing around Durant. Fox, Ellis/Monk, DFS, & Durant is good spacing around Sabonis.

I am not quite sure Durant would agree to come to Sacramento. But it would be cool, to say the very least. I just don't see it happening.