When Do We Blow It Up?

206Fan said:
Fox wants All-NBA money when he’s not even playing like an All-Star this year. 8 years of his lackadaisical effort and intensity gets tiring.
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I really do love Fox but he is all about his bag and even stuff like complaining about CA tax rates gets tiring and shows where his head is at. He is really really good but he has yet to achieve greatness.

Fox probably has the best trade value he's ever going to have right now so we can't sit around and wait for it to sink again.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I would be fine with 2nd round and winning record at home. I think realistically that's the ceiling for a team in Sacramento in the current NBA.

You even see all stars on other teams complaining about their status with TV time and ref bias. Jalen Williams and Anthony Edwards in the last 10 days.
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After last season, I was fine even being a few games over .500 early in the season and looking like a possible 6 seed team. I thought we would shake off our shooting slump. I think it’s clear now we’re not a good shooting team. We have guys that can go off and make 7+ 3s in a game, but then go 1-8 in the next one. And when we slow tempo down (due to personnel but also due to bench depth) and don't get as many easy buckets, that puts even more pressure on our inconsistent shooting. Not a good situation to be
 
Game Theory talked about the Fox situation tonight. Sam and friend thought Reed Sheppard, Cam Whitmore and 3 unprotected picks would be an awesome haul for Fox. Sam also thinks Sheppard has a chance to be a star. If they decide to trade Fox I’d probably want Tari Eason instead of Cam even though he doesn’t have as high of a ceiling.
 
If we trade with Houston, obviously you put up a fight for one of their untouchables even if you lose, but also maybe we ask for Adams back in matching salary as well?
 
One other "perk" when dealing with Houston is you can negotiate the better of the picks that they are owed from other teams instead of worrying about making them too good that the picks suck?

Drawback to dealing with Houston or San Antonio is if we actually do rebuild in a reasonable time frame will be getting bounced by Fox and co. for years to come.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I really do love Fox but he is all about his bag and even stuff like complaining about CA tax rates gets tiring and shows where his head is at. He is really really good but he has yet to achieve greatness.

Fox probably has the best trade value he's ever going to have right now so we can't sit around and wait for it to sink again.
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What pee me off is that we pass on Doncic essentially for him. We picked him over Haliburton. That’s our commitment. At some point, it’s on him to deliver not on us
 
iowamcnabb said:
Game Theory talked about the Fox situation tonight. Sam and friend thought Reed Sheppard, Cam Whitmore and 3 unprotected picks would be an awesome haul for Fox. Sam also thinks Sheppard has a chance to be a star. If they decide to trade Fox I’d probably want Tari Eason instead of Cam even though he doesn’t have as high of a ceiling.
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I think you could (and should hold out) to get Tari or Jabari in that deal. There's no path to either guy starting together and I don't think they're going to have the cash to pay both guys what they're worth. Big fan of Reed too, he's like exactly crafted to succeed in a 2024 NBA offense.

Reed+Tari or Jabari+3 FRP. There's your starting point.
 
Pacboy said:
What pee me off is that we pass on Doncic essentially for him. We picked him over Haliburton. That’s our commitment. At some point, it’s on him to deliver not on us
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I think we passed on Doncic because they fundamentally misread what MBIII brought to the table. That's on a previous administration and I've made peace with it.

I don't mind the Haliburton swap and I don't think this is entirely on Fox, we screwed up building around Fox and Domas and Keegan by getting a dozen SG/undersized SF and forcing Keegan to be the 4.

Unfortunately that is also water under the bridge now.
 
The_Jamal said:
I think you could (and should hold out) to get Tari or Jabari in that deal. There's no path to either guy starting together and I don't think they're going to have the cash to pay both guys what they're worth. Big fan of Reed too, he's like exactly crafted to succeed in a 2024 NBA offense.

Reed+Tari or Jabari+3 FRP. There's your starting point.
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yeh if you had a future team of

Reed
Devin
Keegan
Tari
Sabonis

Monk
Keon
Isaac Jones
Top 10 pick in ‘25

And then 3 future picks plus our own. That’s a nice, fast reset.
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
What teams would even be in the running for Sabonis? I believe if we trade fox trade Sabonis as well it has to be a full tank
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I think the Bucks, Pacers, Lakers, Warriors, and Suns would be interested because they’re all contenders with a very urgent win-now window. The Pacers probably not as pressing as the other teams, but I think they have some pressure after their slow start.

I could see a team like the Clippers entertaining a trade just to keep fans interested in a .500 team while at their new venue. Sabonis gives them that constant.

The Blazers, Hornets, and Pistons could be interested if they’re tired of losing.

I actually think Sabonis probably has more suitors than Fox. Most teams in the league already have a star guard. Fox would obviously command more which also limits the amount of teams who would go for him
 
The_Jamal said:
Been thinking through the rebuild scenario and here's what I have.

100% keep:
Carter
Keon
Keegan

Why:
Keegan on his rookie scale, only going to be 25 at the start of next season. I think actually giving him an opportunity to be a lead option could unlock the offensive potential he's always had. 2-way potential wings don't grow on trees and we control his RFA rights. Don't see any reason you'd move him.

Carter obviously on his rookie year/rookie scale contract. Is going to be very affordable for the foreseeable future and can/hopefully be apart of whatever the next iteration of the Kings are.

Keon; same thing. We control his RFA rights and is one of the young players on this team with real ascension play left in his game. I don't think he really gets you much in the trade market, so his value is best served with us for the next

Look to move asap:
Fox
DDR
Huerter
Lyles

All these guys are on limited-ish deals that expire within the next 2 seasons. These are the plays that restock the warchest and you get moving in a different direction.

Keep, for now, only move for the right deal:
Domas
Monk

These are mainly contract related because we have them signed long-term , on excellent value contracts, you don't have to feel pressured into moving them in a firesale. I think there's real good chemistry between them too; which is something you can build the next offensive system around.
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Just curious what has you holding out on hope for Keegan’s offense?

I hate bringing up those 2 games where we needed him to step up on offense, and he went into hiding instead. I don’t think trading away Fox would magically unlock something inside of him. It seems kinda clear that for the last 2 years, our players and coaches have all been trying to tell Keegan that we need him to be THE guy for our team next to Fox. Hasn’t happened. Don’t know he’s got the mental aptitude to lead an NBA team as their go-to scorer.
 
If we move Fox / Domas / Monk / Deebo, that should net us 5 FRP minimum. Anything less and we’ve badly screwed the pooch.

That said all those guys are under contract for a while so there’s no immediate pressure to move them, outside Fox if it looks clear he’s going to walk.

Extremely disappointing to be here after just 30 games. I’d still like to give it another half season with a new coach next year, but we’re def on the clock in terms of Fox’s future. But there should still be a huge market for him at next year’s deadline. Especially if it becomes clear he should be available, since he’d be the top target on the trade market
 
captain bill said:
If we move Fox / Domas / Monk / Deebo, that should net us 5 FRP minimum. Anything less and we’ve badly screwed the pooch.

That said all those guys are under contract for a while so there’s no immediate pressure to move them, outside Fox if it looks clear he’s going to walk.

Extremely disappointing to be here after just 30 games. I’d still like to give it another half season with a new coach next year, but we’re def on the clock in terms of Fox’s future. But there should still be a huge market for him at next year’s deadline. Especially if it becomes clear he should be available, since he’d be the top target on the trade market
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Sorry there is never a market to trade in the last year. Look at New Orleans with Ingram. Especially if the Lakers are sitting there with cap space. You either do it now or don’t bother. Now is the decision point.
 
Fox would be super appealing to Houston since he would play well with Sengun (who plays similar style to Sabonis) who Fox has had above 500. success with in the West the past 2 seasons (no easy feat in the West to be above 500. imo). Not sure how Fox and Green would fit maybe Houston would trade the Kings Green (not Jeff).
 
sactowndog said:
Sorry there is never a market to trade in the last year. Look at New Orleans with Ingram. Especially if the Lakers are sitting there with cap space. You either do it now or don’t bother. Now is the decision point.
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that’s not a good comparison imo. The market isn’t there for Ingram because he wants 50 million and no one wants to give it to him. He misses about 1/3 of every season, doesn’t take enough threes and is just ok on defense. Fox is a max player by today’s nba standard, Ingram is a 30 million a year guy and even then it’s tough because of all the missed games.
 
iowamcnabb said:
that’s not a good comparison imo. The market isn’t there for Ingram because he wants 50 million and no one wants to give it to him. He misses about 1/3 of every season, doesn’t take enough threes and is just ok on defense. Fox is a max player by today’s nba standard, Ingram is a 30 million a year guy and even then it’s tough because of all the missed games.
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I do think Fox's value is higher before he outright makes a demand public and names a team which I think could happen.

Obviously the key is probably not putting it on blast he's on the market, call the teams with assets we like and insist we're trying to build around Fox and see what happens.
 
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, the Kings aren't trading Domas. He's got a contract, the Fox thing is totally different because he's putting pressure on and using his next contract to do it. What he actually meant, or what his desires are, I don't know. The Kings have already gone as far as they can to placate him. Of course that was after years of jerking him around but still.
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the weird thing is in the Draymond interview he said he would love to retire a King. He’s not really a lip service kinda guy, he probably meant it. I’d have to think his preference is to at least see what the front office does and see if we turn it around before asking for a trade. I think some fans don’t want a drama and speculation filled rest of the season and would rather pivot now but that’s also coming on the heels of a 4 game losing streak. Let’s say we trade for John Collins or whoever and Devin Carter comes back and for whatever reason that provides the spark we need, a lot of people will fell different.
 
iowamcnabb said:
that’s not a good comparison imo. The market isn’t there for Ingram because he wants 50 million and no one wants to give it to him. He misses about 1/3 of every season, doesn’t take enough threes and is just ok on defense. Fox is a max player by today’s nba standard, Ingram is a 30 million a year guy and even then it’s tough because of all the missed games.
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it still doesn’t matter. You never get normal value for a 3 month rental. You do it now or not at all.
 
There was too much fiddling with the offense and defense over the offseason. It’s made us worse. Brown is on the verge of losing the team and we are maybe another few losses away from Fox declaring his desire for a trade. If he’s thinking about it and the Spurs are all over it… well where there’s smoke there’s fire.

This season has been full of disappointment. Murray’s regression and our inability to play him in his correct position, our defensive scheme and general ineptitude on that side of the fence, Fox not playing to the same level as last year where he was a bona fide star, and the GM’s inability to clearly see our roster weakness and address them appropriately. Unfortunate. We have yet again shot ourselves in the foot. To go from where we were a couple years back to this saddens me. We should be playoff material easily, but we didn’t make the right moves and losing Jordi is hitting us harder than we thought it would.

We are going nowhere, hit the reset button. Keep Domas, Murray (play him as a forward, not a big man) and maybe Carter/Monk. Everyone else is trade bait.
 
Sac.Kings said:
There was too much fiddling with the offense and defense over the offseason. It’s made us worse. Brown is on the verge of losing the team and we are maybe another few losses away from Fox declaring his desire for a trade. If he’s thinking about it and the Spurs are all over it… well where there’s smoke there’s fire.

This season has been full of disappointment. Murray’s regression and our inability to play him in his correct position, our defensive scheme and general ineptitude on that side of the fence, Fox not playing to the same level as last year where he was a bona fide star, and the GM’s inability to clearly see our roster weakness and address them appropriately. Unfortunate. We have yet again shot ourselves in the foot. To go from where we were a couple years back to this saddens me. We should be playoff material easily, but we didn’t make the right moves and losing Jordi is hitting us harder than we thought it would.

We are going nowhere, hit the reset button. Keep Domas, Murray (play him as a forward, not a big man) and maybe Carter/Monk. Everyone else is trade bait.
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Yeah I’m disappointed in Brown/Monte.
  • Why aren’t we playing Keon?
  • Why did we sign Crowder to sit on the bench?
  • Why are our rotations so different from game to game and even half to half?
  • Why have Keegan bulk up, mess with his shot, and then not ever post him up when we have guards on him?
  • We don’t seem to ever target weak links like other teams do to us all the time by switching Kevin or Monk or Doug, etc onto them. Why?
  • Why are we allowing DDR to come in and completely mess with the flow and go iso mode when it isn’t working?
 
206Fan said:
Just curious what has you holding out on hope for Keegan’s offense?

I hate bringing up those 2 games where we needed him to step up on offense, and he went into hiding instead. I don’t think trading away Fox would magically unlock something inside of him. It seems kinda clear that for the last 2 years, our players and coaches have all been trying to tell Keegan that we need him to be THE guy for our team next to Fox. Hasn’t happened. Don’t know he’s got the mental aptitude to lead an NBA team as their go-to scorer.
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I think it's more me holding out hope, since we have seen signs over his career that he can be an effective scorer. There's also a big difference if we clear out all these USG guys since he's basically relegated to the HB role this season after taking a USG leap last year. Like, if you took away Fox/DDR/Huerter/Lyles... who the hell is left to shoot the ball? Monk can only fire that thing so often. I don't think he'd hop right into first option USG, but I think he'd be like 20-21%, which is like a 2nd/3rd option type. If he could be comfortable there and shoot how we expect him to shoot; that's how he fully becomes a foundational piece with his defense.
 
Again, I wouldn’t blow it up just yet.

We have yet to see what a Fox/Sabonis core looks like when you surround them with size, length, athleticism, defense, and shooting. We’ve had shooting around them but we have failed everywhere else.

Go get guys like Jerami Grant, Dorian Finney-Smith, Robert Williams, Larry Nance, Isaiah Stewart, etc. that allow us to build that new style of team around these guys.

If the team fails with size, length, athleticism, defense, and shooting around Fox/Sabonis then blow it up, but it would be a missed opportunity to not even see what that could be with that type of roster construction.
 
It's better to have all these struggles before the trade deadline. Now FO is forced to take major action if they are serious about contending.
 
sono said:
It's better to have all these struggles before the trade deadline. Now FO is forced to take major action if they are serious about contending.
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A problem that can come up in a scenario like this is that other teams will know you’re in a tough spot and need to do something, whether that’s trading for yet another significant piece to add to the rotation or selling off your players. They will resist or refuse to give equal value back. It’s hard to get true value back out of your roster like that, sort of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. Truth of the matter is, no matter what approach we take, we won’t be in the driver’s seat.
 
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