When Do We Blow It Up?

[Tizzy Flip]

I’m not sure this a Klutch leak. He was seen sitting courtside so I’m sure he or the team was asked about his visit by Slater or Amick. Plus it’s not as if he is trying to start a rumor that he was hoping would get back to the team, he spoke directly to them.

Vivek and Monte chose Fox over Hali, they drafted ready to contribute players, hired the coach he wanted and signed Derozan. They have absolutely tried to build around him and win. If Fox wants to push this issue now, 30 games into the season, then I say thank you for your service and kick rocks. Oh, you want to go now with a year and a half left on your deal? Great! 2 young talents who can contribute right away or one mega premium one (Amen) , 3 unprotected firsts, 4 seconds and a couple swaps. Anything less and you can wait until you are a free agent.

It’s unfortunate this is going on, but I saw this as a real possibility last season. The issue is Fox is an all-star but not in that elite list of players that is needed to go deep in the playoffs, like Luka and SGA are. If he ever plays for a contending team, it’ll be for a team where he’s not the #1

Fox/Sabonis/Keegan are a nice core but have too many limitations unfortunately

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

We’re in such a weird spot, because do you even trade your future firsts for top roleplayers if you may be rebuilding in a year or two? Monte mismanaged this timeline it seems.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We’re in such a weird spot, because do you even trade your future firsts for top roleplayers if you may be rebuilding in a year or two? Monte mismanaged this timeline it seems.

We have our firsts except the swap with the Spurs which if they are a Fox landing spot that would likely be part of any deal.

There's the pick we owe the Hawks but right now that is suddenly looking like the stupid Casspi pick that hamstrung us for years but at least if we tank we'd keep it. But that is also looking like a weird fluke given we finished 10 games over .500 last year when the pick was supposed to convey.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Mikal bridges got 5 first rounders and he is a theoretical elite role player not a star

Mitchell got Lauri, Sexton, Ogbaji, 3 firsts and 2 swaps

Gobert got Kessler and a ton of picks.

Star players in their prime and under contract are worth a truckload. It’s really hard to sign max level free agents so they have to be acquired via trade.

Yeah, it would be a silly haul if we traded him this season, considering he's an all-star, he'd be their piece to put next to Wemby, and considering that they have a ridiculous number of picks.

Since they would have to do a decent bit of salary accumulation, we'd essentially have to take in three players, while dumping our garbage.

For the players, I'd insist on Castle/Sochan, but the bulk of the salary would have to come from Collins' two-year deal. We can't trade for Barnes back, and I don't really want either of the Keldon or Vassell contracts. We'd give up Fox, McLaughlin, Robinson. If we wanted to wait until Jan. 16th to make the deal, then McBuckets is available to trade and could be thrown in to bring back Kings killer Champagnie.

Then, the Spurs have a lot of picks - not OKC-level, but a lot. To sum this up:

2025:
SAS
ATL
CHA (15-30, or 2 seconds)
CHI (11-30 ---> 9-30 '26 ---> 9-30 '27 or a second)

2026:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/ATL)

2027:
SAS
ATL

2028:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/BOS[2-30] )

2029:
SAS

2030:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/DAL/MIN[2-30] )

2031
SAS (most favorable of SAS/SAC)
MIN

That's 12 first-round picks in the next 7 years, and under Stepien rules they can trade a lot of them. Basically the most they can send is:

ATL 2025
**CHA 2025 (15-30, or 2 seconds)
*CHI 2025 (11-30 ---> 9-30 '26 ---> 9-30 '27 or a second)
SAS/ATL 2026
ATL 2027
**SAS/BOS 2028
SAS/DAL/MIN 2030
MIN 2031

** = pretty much guaranteed to suck
* = guaranteed to not be great

Plus
2027 swap
2029 swap
2031 reversal of swap

That's five picks where you're rolling the dice and hoping the ATL stuff pans out, and that Minny collapses in a few years, one first that's going to suck, two possible firsts that won't be great or might convey as seconds, and three swaps that Minny will assume won't convey.

That's a lot of picks - I'd want most of that. I mean Fox ain't no Mikal Bridges, and we'd be sending him for the hope that Castle pans out, and a couple of role guys. Our roster would be:

Monk/Ellis/Carter
DeRozan/Huerter/Colby
Murray/Castle/McDermott
Sochan/Lyles/Crowder
Sabonis/Collins/Len

Under this scenario Castle probably ends up being the primary backup PG on offense (unless Carter takes over) but guards up on D. It's weird. Maybe it works? If our hand is forced, that's what I want. But what I really want is Fox.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, it would be a silly haul if we traded him this season, considering he's an all-star, he'd be their piece to put next to Wemby, and considering that they have a ridiculous number of picks.

Since they would have to do a decent bit of salary accumulation, we'd essentially have to take in three players, while dumping our garbage.

For the players, I'd insist on Castle/Sochan, but the bulk of the salary would have to come from Collins' two-year deal. We can't trade for Barnes back, and I don't really want either of the Keldon or Vassell contracts. We'd give up Fox, McLaughlin, Robinson. If we wanted to wait until Jan. 16th to make the deal, then McBuckets is available to trade and could be thrown in to bring back Kings killer Champagnie.

Then, the Spurs have a lot of picks - not OKC-level, but a lot. To sum this up:

2025:
SAS
ATL
CHA (15-30, or 2 seconds)
CHI (11-30 ---> 9-30 '26 ---> 9-30 '27 or a second)

2026:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/ATL)

2027:
SAS
ATL

2028:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/BOS[2-30] )

2029:
SAS

2030:
SAS (most favorable of SAS/DAL/MIN[2-30] )

2031
SAS (most favorable of SAS/SAC)
MIN

That's 12 first-round picks in the next 7 years, and under Stepien rules they can trade a lot of them. Basically the most they can send is:

ATL 2025
**CHA 2025 (15-30, or 2 seconds)
*CHI 2025 (11-30 ---> 9-30 '26 ---> 9-30 '27 or a second)
SAS/ATL 2026
ATL 2027
**SAS/BOS 2028
SAS/DAL/MIN 2030
MIN 2031

** = pretty much guaranteed to suck
* = guaranteed to not be great

Plus
2027 swap
2029 swap
2031 reversal of swap

That's five picks where you're rolling the dice and hoping the ATL stuff pans out, and that Minny collapses in a few years, one first that's going to suck, two possible firsts that won't be great or might convey as seconds, and three swaps that Minny will assume won't convey.

That's a lot of picks - I'd want most of that. I mean Fox ain't no Mikal Bridges, and we'd be sending him for the hope that Castle pans out, and a couple of role guys. Our roster would be:

Monk/Ellis/Carter
DeRozan/Huerter/Colby
Murray/Castle/McDermott
Sochan/Lyles/Crowder
Sabonis/Collins/Len

Under this scenario castle probably ends up being the primary backup PG on offense (unless Carter takes over) but guards up on D. It's weird. Maybe it works? If our hand is forced, that's what I want. But what I really want is Fox.

I want Fox but if he is starting to take the wheel to get out then I could live with this type of stuff to the point that if this is what he wants I welcome it.

I'll just be honest I've always loved Fox to the point where I've forgiven things that are unforgivable if he wants to be a first team All NBA guy and if he is going to call his shot out of town then he better start playing like a first team All NBA guy or I am going to start nitpicking his every fail.

Up to him really.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Mikal bridges got 5 first rounders and he is a theoretical elite role player not a star

Mitchell got Lauri, Sexton, Ogbaji, 3 firsts and 2 swaps

Gobert got Kessler and a ton of picks.

Star players in their prime and under contract are worth a truckload. It’s really hard to sign max level free agents so they have to be acquired via trade.

Lauri wasn’t the player he was when that trade happened

Kessler was just drafted I believe so that’s a prospect at that time

The bridges trade is irrelevant never happened before won’t again with Knocks just chasing Nova teammates and bridges said he’d only go there allegedly

 

[Hoovtrain]

Now

 

[iowamcnabb]

Lauri wasn’t the player he was when that trade happened

Kessler was just drafted I believe so that’s a prospect at that time

The bridges trade is irrelevant never happened before won’t again with Knocks just chasing Nova teammates and bridges said he’d only go there allegedly

yeh but Lauri was ascending, it was pretty clear. He had a very good year in Cleveland.
we aren’t trading Fox for a middling prospect and 2 firsts. Blow us a way or force are hand later, no compromise

 

[New Era]

Maybe a Keegan for Lauri swap would do good for both players and franchises

 

[iowamcnabb]

Maybe a Keegan for Lauri swap would do good for both players and franchises

Lauri can’t be traded until the off season

 

[Jdbraver137]

We only have 1 real Wing. I’m not seeing what Monte’s vision is for this team. Im not sure what the construction is supposed to be? Mid-range all day? That era is over.

 

[reptilexcq2]

No way in hell you would trade Fox. He's a hell of a player and probably the ONLY one that's unguardable on the court. We need to figure out another way to move players like Huerter, Lyle and YES, even DeRozan. And even Murray for Lauri doesn't sound bad giving the way he play this year.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Lauri can’t be traded until the off season

At which point he will be making $35M more than Keegan.

 

[fansinceday1]

No way in hell you would trade Fox. He's a hell of a player and probably the ONLY one that's unguardable on the court. We need to figure out another way to move players like Huerter, Lyle and YES, even DeRozan. And even Murray for Lauri doesn't sound bad giving the way he play this year.

If there’s even an inkling the guy might leave we need to trade him. We can’t let him walk away and get nothing for him:

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If there’s even an inkling the guy might leave we need to trade him. We can’t let him walk away and get nothing for him:

Risk avoidance is not always the best move. Perhaps the riskiest move this franchise has made was to trade away one of the best players in Sacramento history to get a malcontent power forward who swore he'd never suit up here. We've had a bunch of other risky moves pay off, including drafting Peja, trading J-Will for Bibby, and trading Hali for Domas.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a risk-avoidance move that has actually worked out for us, though I'd welcome examples.

Trading Fox because there's an inkling he might leave is risk avoidance extraordinaire. It would throw us back into a rebuild. We're a three-game winning streak from being right back in the thick of things with almost 2/3 of the season left to go, and then we have another season on top of that before we have to worry about losing Fox. Give up now and rebuild?

 

[sactowndog]

Risk avoidance is not always the best move. Perhaps the riskiest move this franchise has made was to trade away one of the best players in Sacramento history to get a malcontent power forward who swore he'd never suit up here. We've had a bunch of other risky moves pay off, including drafting Peja, trading J-Will for Bibby, and trading Hali for Domas.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a risk-avoidance move that has actually worked out for us, though I'd welcome examples.

Trading Fox because there's an inkling he might leave is risk avoidance extraordinaire. It would throw us back into a rebuild. We're a three-game winning streak from being right back in the thick of things with almost 2/3 of the season left to go, and then we have another season on top of that before we have to worry about losing Fox. Give up now and rebuild?

except I think the risk avoidance move is not trading Fox. Monte is the king of risk avoidance.

 

[GWD]

Fox has clearly stated that he is not having fun playing for the Kings. The Kings are a declining team, record-wise, and he wants to play on a winning team. Klutch sports has their well-known tactics that would lead to the belief that a larger market and max salary would benefit their bottom line. Fox is on the edge of asking for a trade.

The King are placed in a difficult position with little remedy other than to try to receive as much compensation as possible to offset the loss of Fox. If a significant opportunity comes sooner than later, it is incumbent on the Kings to take it rather than risk losing Fox for nothing.

 

[Remi]

Big question - what happened that players have lost fun? is it:
Jordi leaving?
DDR comming to team?
Brown lost player support?

Because I can not think about other significant reason..... Do you?

 

[twslam07]

I think it would be a mistake to trade Fox right now. We should try to make a splash now/at the deadline to help correct the ship. If we make a move like that, these are three possible outcomes…

1. Our team improves and we end the year with an impressive winning record and make the play-in/playoffs
2. Our team improves and we end the year with an impressive winning record but we still miss the play-in/playoffs
3. Our team doesn’t improve and we end the year with a similar (or worse) winning % and miss the playoffs

If #1 happens, great! We’re probably a team on the upward trajectory again and Fox will more than likely resign long term with us. Continue to build a winner/contender.

If #2 happens, it’s a tough pill to swallow in regard to missing the play-in/playoffs, but we can at least use the improvement to end the year as something to “sell” to Fox to convince him to sign an extension (e.g., “we’ll be good next year since this new core/team will still be here”). If Fox signs an extension, great! Keep building a winner/contender. If Fox is still hesitant to sign an extension at that point, allow the 2025-26 season to play out. If we’re looking good ahead of the deadline and in a position to make the playoffs, I’m pretty confident that Fox will sign an extension at that point. If the improvement in the 2nd half of the 2024-25 season does not carry over into the 1st half of the 2025-26 season, trade Fox for as many assets as you can.

If #3 happens, trade Fox for as many assets as you can during the 2025 off-season.



We’re getting close to the inflection point on needing to trade Fox, but we’re not there yet. Monte needs to find a trade that he thinks will turn this team around and right the ship now/at the deadline. Let’s see what happens…

 

[fansinceday1]

Do the kings wait till Fox demands a trade? Wouldn’t that lower his value?
IMO, trade him while teams still think he’s willing to stay here in sac. Don’t wait till he goes to the press and demands a trade.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

except I think the risk avoidance move is not trading Fox.

I can't understand that.

Risk: Fox leaves for nothing. Risk avoidance: Trade Fox early (for a loss in value). That's the situation I understand.

Risk: Trade Fox now (for better value). Risk avoidance: Don't trade Fox. This situation doesn't seem to exist, unless the Spurs are out there offering Wemby for Fox. If the Spurs were offering Wemby for Fox (or there was some other trade on the table that actually made us better), then not doing the trade would be risk avoidance. But show me that trade. Right now we're talking about getting salary filler and picks.

Monte is the king of risk avoidance.

I don't know about that. Hali for Sabonis was most certainly not risk avoidance.

 

[sactowndog]

I can't understand that.

Risk: Fox leaves for nothing. Risk avoidance: Trade Fox early (for a loss in value). That's the situation I understand.

Risk: Trade Fox now (for better value). Risk avoidance: Don't trade Fox. This situation doesn't seem to exist, unless the Spurs are out there offering Wemby for Fox. If the Spurs were offering Wemby for Fox (or there was some other trade on the table that actually made us better), then not doing the trade would be risk avoidance. But show me that trade. Right now we're talking about getting salary filler and picks.



I don't know about that. Hali for Sabonis was most certainly not risk avoidance.

risk - can we get a trade that would balance our line-up and get some forwards.

risk avoidance- continue with a line-up that has been unsuccessful for last year and 1/3 of this year hoping it will somehow get better.

 

[sactowndog]

Kings have 1 win against a top 8 team in the west.

of their 13 wins 7 are against teams not currently in the play-in.

this team is not a player away. Trade Fox, tank for a better pick, reset for next year.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think I’m in if we can get a haul for Fox. Not sure if Monte is the guy that can execute it.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Trading fox right now is moronic try to get some wings around before blowing it up

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Trading fox right now is moronic try to get some wings around before blowing it up

Then when he still demands out we won’t have control of our firsts in a rebuild. Sadly I think his agency has already begun steering him out.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I think it would be a mistake to trade Fox right now. We should try to make a splash now/at the deadline to help correct the ship. If we make a move like that, these are three possible outcomes…

1. Our team improves and we end the year with an impressive winning record and make the play-in/playoffs
2. Our team improves and we end the year with an impressive winning record but we still miss the play-in/playoffs
3. Our team doesn’t improve and we end the year with a similar (or worse) winning % and miss the playoffs

If #1 happens, great! We’re probably a team on the upward trajectory again and Fox will more than likely resign long term with us. Continue to build a winner/contender.

If #2 happens, it’s a tough pill to swallow in regard to missing the play-in/playoffs, but we can at least use the improvement to end the year as something to “sell” to Fox to convince him to sign an extension (e.g., “we’ll be good next year since this new core/team will still be here”). If Fox signs an extension, great! Keep building a winner/contender. If Fox is still hesitant to sign an extension at that point, allow the 2025-26 season to play out. If we’re looking good ahead of the deadline and in a position to make the playoffs, I’m pretty confident that Fox will sign an extension at that point. If the improvement in the 2nd half of the 2024-25 season does not carry over into the 1st half of the 2025-26 season, trade Fox for as many assets as you can.

If #3 happens, trade Fox for as many assets as you can during the 2025 off-season.



We’re getting close to the inflection point on needing to trade Fox, but we’re not there yet. Monte needs to find a trade that he thinks will turn this team around and right the ship now/at the deadline. Let’s see what happens…

I still think option one or two are on the table and that we should try it. My only concern is finding a team that can give us one young impact player now and picked for down the road. It’s why I’d prefer to trade with Houston and get Amen Thompson or Tari Eason and draft capital over a Spurs deal. Castle/Sochan are nice but I’m not sure they have the impact I would want and then their good picks are several years down the road. We have enough good players to retool and compete next year. If Houston called and said Amen Thompson, filler and 2 picks I would do the deal tomorrow. Sabonis with Amen, Keegan and Devin would be loads of fun.

 

[SacTownKid]

Trading fox right now is moronic try to get some wings around before blowing it up

Nah, the Kings are teetering in that danger range. Adding more salary for fit is too much of a gamble if the Kings don't push into the playoff range soon. I doubt Monte blows it up but if the winning doesn't come that means 3 stabs was good enough, your combo of stars didn't work out. It happens. With what Fox said the other day it really seems like the writing is on the wall or at least heading that way. Fox was chosen by the organization over the guy that just rolled into town and whose team curb stomped the Kings. Then it's a great thing that the Kings got lucky in the draft because now you can slot in somebody with upside from day 1 that perhaps might be a better fit to cover up some of Sabonis weaknesses defensively. The question then is what you target if Fox is moved. Picks and some depth? A star SG/SF? PF? Monte probably has to start looking at middling teams with fit concerns. The same way he got Domas.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Then when he still demands out we won’t have control of our firsts in a rebuild. Sadly I think his agency has already begun steering him out.

if we trade away a first or two for role players and the ship still sinks we would have a high draft pick this year and then several future picks. Sabonis, Keegan, Monk, Devin, Keon and maybe Isaac can all be apart of a re-tool so we won’t be starting from scratch.

 

[SacTownKid]

Then when he still demands out we won’t have control of our firsts in a rebuild. Sadly I think his agency has already begun steering him out.

He might have just been spouting off but that sure did seem like his buddy Draymond let him use that as a platform to lay the table. The Kings are obviously starting to be affected by the chatter. Huerter in year two of open dangling and now Lyles joining him. This is a clear sign of waiting it out from the players. Not sure if waiting for the deadline is a wise move with where the Kings are heading.