What to do with Tyreke

[rhythmless]

You seem fascinated by an irrelevant trait. You know what, Shaq was a pure post player and rarely took any shot outside of myabe 6-8 feet of the hoop. IRRELEVANT. Because he was dominant with what he did do.

Shooting is irrelevant to getting to the cup? Now you're just trolling. A viable shooter needs to be defended, which forces a defender to defend closer. This will make it easier to get past this defender and also allow for more spacing for teammates. You know, the other 4 guys on the team. Now you're using Shaq to compare to Tyreke? Shaq is the most dominant offensive inside force after Chamberlain, and you're using him to compare to Tyreke? Laughable.

 

[rhythmless]

You may have missed my little list of all the great teams with players whom the defense can offically ignore. And they cannot and do not remotely ignroe Tyreke, Some sag. And then when he comes toward the hoop he still EASILY draws the msot attention on the Kings. Two guys, sometiems three. And you know what? At that point Tyreke Evans has officially won that possession, and so have we. All that is left is to find the guys who are suddenly open because of the presence of a player on our team that other teams are scared of. That we don't do well enough, but it is there. When the defense bends itself, shifts itself to stop Reke, he's broken the defense. Its exactly whet you are looking for as an offensive player or offensive coach. If guys are shading toward Reke, if shotblockers come to help and the defense collpases, then you've won. Your other guys just got open.

And that is something that no amount of weenie shooters or mediocre players can ever do for you. We just have to get more efficient at using it.

If Tyreke NEVER shoots outside of 12 feet, then by all means, go with this plan. However, 54% of his attempts are jump shots, including 2 3s a game. You either get better at it, or stop using it. Plain and simple.

 

[Bricklayer]

Shooting is irrelevant to getting to the cup? Now you're just trolling. A viable shooter needs to be defended, which forces a defender to defend closer. This will make it easier to get past this defender and also allow for more spacing for teammates. You know, the other 4 guys on the team. Now you're using Shaq to compare to Tyreke? Shaq is the most dominant offensive inside force after Chamberlain, and you're using him to compare to Tyreke? Laughable.

No, "only" being the best driving guard in basketball is irrelevant as a critique. It does not matter how guys get it done, just that it gets done. Here again is that ridiculous blindspot. Tyreke "only" does rigthhanded layups, therefore he must be less effective than guys who do more things. Uh, no. The key thing is that Tyreke's "only" righthanded layups are more effective than most guys well rounded offense. He is one of the best driving players of his size I have ever seen. He is again 4th in the entire league in FGA at the rim, 1st amongst non-big men at 7.2 a game (2nd is DWade at 6.8). He is 2nd to LeBron amongst non-bigs in makes at the rim as well (4.5).

So no, Tyreke Evans does not do 50 different things offensively. But the thing he DOES do, he does better than any other player in the league and the end result is similar. His not developing a jumpshot holds him back from being a big star. It does not hold him back from being at least as potent as various lesser talents who are jsut pretty good at this, pretty good at that.

 

[Section 101]

No, "only" being the best driving guard in basketball is irrelevant as a critique. It does not matter how guys get it done, just that it gets done. Here again is that ridiculous blindspot. Tyreke "only" does rigthhanded layups, therefore he must be less effective than guys who do more things. Uh, no. The key thing is that Tyreke's "only" righthanded layups are more effective than most guys well rounded offense. He is one of the best driving players of his size I have ever seen. He is again 4th in the entire league in FGA at the rim, 1st amongst non-big men at 7.2 a game (2nd is DWade at 6.8). He is 2nd to LeBron amongst non-bigs in makes at the rim as well (4.5).

So no, Tyreke Evans does not do 50 different things offensively. But the thing he DOES do, he does better than any other player in the league and the end result is similar. His not developing a jumpshot holds him back from being a big star. It does not hold him back from being at least as potent as various lesser talents who are jsut pretty good at this, pretty good at that.

Instead of using FGA at the rim how about FGM?

 

[Bricklayer]

If Tyreke NEVER shoots outside of 12 feet, then by all means, go with this plan. However, 54% of his attempts are jump shots, including 2 3s a game. You either get better at it, or stop using it. Plain and simple.

That I don't disagree with, and he has been noticeably shooting a lot less from outside in recent weeks. But youth and inexperience remain huge keys here. As does an offensive scheme that might ask him to shoot those threes on the kick, or players not experienced/familiar enough to make the decision not to pass it to him there. All of those things will come with time. IN three years time he should either have developed a sufficient jumper to spot shoot if nothing else, or he should have settled back as a moderately efficient 15-18ppg driving specialist who is used as such by his teammates and coaches. Many MANY poor shooters have played in the NBA, have even won titles in the NBA. Just have to work around the flaw, same as any other.

 

[rhythmless]

No, "only" being the best driving guard in basketball is irrelevant as a critique. It does not matter how guys get it done, just that it gets done. Here again is that ridiculous blindspot. Tyreke "only" does rigthhanded layups, therefore he must be less effective than guys who do more things. Uh, no. The key thing is that Tyreke's "only" righthanded layups are more effective than most guys well rounded offense. He is one of the best driving players of his size I have ever seen. He is again 4th in the entire league in FGA at the rim, 1st amongst non-big men at 7.2 a game (2nd is DWade at 6.8). He is 2nd to LeBron amongst non-bigs in makes at the rim as well (4.5).

So no, Tyreke Evans does not do 50 different things offensively. But the thing he DOES do, he does better than any other player in the league and the end result is similar. His not developing a jumpshot holds him back from being a big star. It does not hold him back from being at least as potent as various lesser talents who are jsut pretty good at this, pretty good at that.

I'm not disputing his talent. I have claimed many a time that his layup skill is elite, and nothing less. However, when over half of your attempts are not using this elite skill, we have a problem. Factor that in with questionable facilitating without a dominant play calling coach, and you have a problem. He either needs to turn his 8 jump shots into layup attemps, or make more jump shots. I would prefer the latter, but the former is fine by me. If he wants to waste his considerable talent and be a one trick pony, fine. He is content with being a good player, not a star. Then do your one trick. The problem isn't only that he can't shoot. It's that he thinks he can.

You mention surrounding him with talent to complement. Who will you have? Outside of Afflalo and Batum, I see no one that will come here. Contrary to what you say, defensive role playing spot up 3 point shooters who know their roles are not exactly everywhere.

 

[Bricklayer]

Instead of using FGA at the rim how about FGM?

Did you notice the "makes at the rim as well"?

I have no idea how Sacramento fans can miss this, he is a spectacular driver.

He is #1 amongst guards in FGA (7.2).
He is #1 amongst guards in FGM (4.5).

even if you extend that to all non PF/Cs he is #1 in FGA and #2 in FGM (to LeBron).

Here are all the guards in the Top 40 in FGM at the rim, including all those other guys everybody likes to gush about for their driving ability:

FGM/FGA/% at rim
Evans 4.5-7.2 62.3%
Wade 4.4-6.8 64.8%
Westb 4.1-6.3 64.3%
Grodon 4.0-6.0 66.7% (2 games)
Rose 3.8-6.1 62.0%
Wall 3.6-5.9 60.2%
Irving 3.6-5.9 60.6%
Rondo 3.5-5.9 58.8%
Ellis 3.1-4.8 63.1%
Lawsn 3.1-4.9 62.1%
Parker 3.0-4.7 64.4%

all shot locatiosn stats btw, as always are from hoopdata.com

NOBODY gets there as much, or scores there as often as Tyreke Evans. Our guy. Not everybody else's. And if he "only" does it with his right hand of what possible relevance could that be. You think Rondo wouldn't trade his left hand to have a right as potent as Reke's?

 

[Section 101]

Instead of using FGA at the rim how about FGM?

I found it for you.

LBJ 5.2 makes at 77.5%
Wade 4.4 at 64.8%
Evans 4.5 at 63%

The difference is Evans shooting % everywhere is just plain stinks. 3-9 feet 26.5%, 10-15 feet 21.4%, 16-13 feet, 24, 3pters 33.2%. Wade and LBJ are both over 40% and some in the 50's in all except Wade in 3pts.

 

[Section 101]

Did you notice the "makes at the rim as well"?

I have no idea how Sacramento fans can miss this, he is a spectacular driver.

He is #1 amongst guards in FGA (7.2).
He is #1 amongst guards in FGM (4.5).

even if you extend that to all non PF/Cs he is #1 in FGA and #2 in FGM (to LeBron).

Here are all the guards in the Top 40 in FGM at the rim, including all those other guys everybody likes to gush about for their driving ability:

FGM/FGA/% at rim
Evans 4.5-7.2 62.3%
Wade 4.4-6.8 64.8%
Westb 4.1-6.3 64.3%
Grodon 4.0-6.0 66.7% (2 games)
Rose 3.8-6.1 62.0%
Wall 3.6-5.9 60.2%
Irving 3.6-5.9 60.6%
Rondo 3.5-5.9 58.8%
Ellis 3.1-4.8 63.1%
Lawsn 3.1-4.9 62.1%
Parker 3.0-4.7 64.4%

all shot locatiosn stats btw, as always are from hoopdata.com

NOBODY gets there as much, or scores there as often as Tyreke Evans. Our guy. Not everybody else's. And if he "only" does it with his right hand of what possible relevance could that be. You think Rondo wouldn't trade his left hand to have a right as potent as Reke's?

Funny how you tilt the stats to your favor.

Lets take your hoopdata and put in guards that have played 20+ games and play over 25+ minutes a game.

In this list Evans is 25th in % at the rim. at 3-9 feet 58th, at 10-15 feet 64th, 16-23 feet 68th.

So ya he can drive, but that's all he can do. And get in a playoff series that would be the first thing they take away.

 

[Padrino]

Funny how you tilt the stats to your favor.

Lets take your hoopdata and put in guards that have played 20+ games and play over 25+ minutes a game.

In this list Evans is 25th in % at the rim. at 3-9 feet 58th, at 10-15 feet 64th, 16-23 feet 68th.

So ya he can drive, but that's all he can do. And get in a playoff series that would be the first thing they take away.

i hate beating this horse dead, but dwayne wade sends his regards from the nba finals:

 

[Bricklayer]

Funny how you tilt the stats to your favor.

Lets take your hoopdata and put in guards that have played 20+ games and play over 25+ minutes a game.

In this list Evans is 25th in % at the rim. at 3-9 feet 58th, at 10-15 feet 64th, 16-23 feet 68th.

So ya he can drive, but that's all he can do. And get in a playoff series that would be the first thing they take away.

HAHAHA,

Funny how I tilt the stats in my favor while you're running a one man slant operation here worthy of a cheap political campaign? You're like a parody. I go find the stats, list the stats for EVERYBODY, and this scares poor Section 101, who couldn't possibly tolerate his archnemesis lookign like a non turd at any moment, and so off he goes to try to find the most negative stats he can one more time. Just sad.

Its no mistake my listing all those players and all those stats Section. I know your gimmick at this point, and was not going to leave you any room to play more silly games. I like your particular interpretation: Poster #1 lists stats of every guard in Top 40. Poster #2 lists select stats of player compared to...Dwayne Wade and LeBron James! Obviously Poster #1 is running the slant.

Oh and BTW Tyreke's 62.3% finshing in there is exactly the league average, as you probably know. And as you also probably know, if Tyreke is ranked 25th amongst guards in finsihing percentage or whatever, then last year's MVP is ranked even worse. Scrub that he is. But then of course you realized the weakness of that argument didn't you? Which is why you decided to try to bounce it away from the rim to areas that havent been in question by anybody.

If you can't see the dishonesty inherent in your approach you've got a problem. If you can you should take a look in the mirror.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Funny how you tilt the stats to your favor.

Lets take your hoopdata and put in guards that have played 20+ games and play over 25+ minutes a game.

In this list Evans is 25th in % at the rim.

And 18 of the 24 players ahead of him take less than half as many shots at the rim. A guy who gets one or two breakaway layups a game is going to hit a high percentage of them, no doubt. Tyreke gets to the rim in the half-court, when people are deliberately trying to stop him, at a rate higher than almost any other guard, and he converts nearly as efficiently as anybody else who gets to the rim with any sort of regularity. It's kind of funny that you accuse Brick of tilting the stats and then try to compare Tyreke's efficiency at the rim to Anthony Morrow's (0.7 shots per game).

 

[Catalyst]

1) its a LOT easier to go find shooters to put around a Tyreke Evans than it is to find guys who can do what Evans does in the first place.

2) as always I wonder just how well people know the NBA. This was your starting "shooting" guard on the NBA Champions last year: DeShawn Stevensen.

1. Fair statement. Few have Tyreke's natural skill set.

2. Tyreke is a huge, core part of Sac's team. DeShawn Stevenson is a role player on the Mavericks. This is not an apples to apples comparison. How many high impact SGs have been in the league in recent memory and done something worth talking about when they couldn't shoot?

There have been a few, but not many.

 

[Section 101]

And 18 of the 24 players ahead of him take less than half as many shots at the rim. A guy who gets one or two breakaway layups a game is going to hit a high percentage of them, no doubt. Tyreke gets to the rim in the half-court, when people are deliberately trying to stop him, at a rate higher than almost any other guard, and he converts nearly as efficiently as anybody else who gets to the rim with any sort of regularity. It's kind of funny that you accuse Brick of tilting the stats and then try to compare Tyreke's efficiency at the rim to Anthony Morrow's (0.7 shots per game).

They take less shots at the rim because they can make other shots too. Also, at the rim includes break points not just half court.

And if you notice, Brick started with the FGA at the rim which is the least important of the stats compared to FGM or FG%. That's why I say he was stat shopping.

 

[Section 101]

i hate beating this horse dead, but dwayne wade sends his regards from the nba finals:

Evans is not DWade and never will be.

 

[Catalyst]

You know what, Shaq was a pure post player and rarely took any shot outside of myabe 6-8 feet of the hoop. IRRELEVANT. Because he was dominant with what he did do.

Shaq was surrounded by players who complimented him well during the Lakers run. Keep in mind, the Lakers were signing people no one had ever heard of, like Mike Penberthy, Slava Medvedenko and these guys were coming in and contributing. The Lakers had established a very strong system around Shaq after Phil Jackson got there, and they simply needed guys who would play their roles.

Tyreke is a terrific player, anyone who would argue that doesn't know the NBA. BUT being terrific isn't enough, you have to have a team that's built to take advantage of your strengths and hide your weaknesses.

How this roster does that for Tyreke or would do that for him it's still something I do not see.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Wow, what'd I miss?

 

[Section 101]

HAHAHA,

Funny how I tilt the stats in my favor while you're running a one man slant operation here worthy of a cheap political campaign? You're like a parody. I go find the stats, list the stats for EVERYBODY, and this scares poor Section 101, who couldn't possibly tolerate his archnemesis lookign like a non turd at any moment, and so off he goes to try to find the most negative stats he can one more time. Just sad.

Its no mistake my listing all those players and all those stats Section. I know your gimmick at this point, and was not going to leave you any room to play more silly games. I like your particular interpretation: Poster #1 lists stats of every guard in Top 40. Poster #2 lists select stats of player compared to...Dwayne Wade and LeBron James! Obviously Poster #1 is running the slant.

Oh and BTW Tyreke's 62.3% finshing in there is exactly the league average, as you probably know. And as you also probably know, if Tyreke is ranked 25th amongst guards in finsihing percentage or whatever, then last year's MVP is ranked even worse. Scrub that he is. But then of course you realized the weakness of that argument didn't you? Which is why you decided to try to bounce it away from the rim to areas that havent been in question by anybody.

If you can't see the dishonesty inherent in your approach you've got a problem. If you can you should take a look in the mirror.

You mean the Rose that is just behind Evans in at the rim yet has a 10+pt higher PER?

 

[Catalyst]

Again, I'd really like to know -from anyone- how this roster composed of the core of DeMarcus, Tyreke and Thornton works from a basketball perspective. You have two guys who are too similar in Reke in Thornton. Reke can't shoot and therefore does a bad job of spacing the floor for Cousins... and the Kings currently have two rookie PGs they're playing most of the minutes at that spot. Kings are near the bottom of the league in FG% and Assists, two things a great PG drastically affects.

How this roster will "fix itself" with time is beyond me. There needs to be changes.

 

[Kingster]

You seem fascinated by an irrelevant trait. You know what, Shaq was a pure post player and rarely took any shot outside of myabe 6-8 feet of the hoop. IRRELEVANT. Because he was dominant with what he did do.

Wake up. I used the word "GUARD" in my post for a reason. Using Shaq in your analysis is both superficial and disingenuous. You know better. Either that, or you're in major denial.

 

[Padrino]

Evans is not DWade and never will be.

wow, you're good at this!! i post an example that points out how a high-usage guard with a wicked right hand can exploit a defense at the rim deep in the playoffs, and you refute said example with nothing more than an unfounded prognostication. bet you're a blast at family get-togethers...

new one for ya: what are the winning lotto numbers?

 

[Section 101]

wow, you're good at this!! i post an example that points out how a high-usage guard with a wicked right hand can exploit a defense at the rim deep in the playoffs, and you refute said example with nothing more than an unfounded prognostication. bet you're a blast at family get-togethers...

new one for ya: what are the winning lotto numbers?

Wade plays above the rim, Evans chooses not too. Wade is also much quicker. They are different players.

 

[macadocious]

Wade plays above the rim, Evans chooses not too. Wade is also much quicker. They are different players.

I'm not sure this word means what you think it does.

 

[Padrino]

Again, I'd really like to know -from anyone- how this roster composed of the core of DeMarcus, Tyreke and Thornton works from a basketball perspective. You have two guys who are too similar in Reke in Thornton. Reke can't shoot and therefore does a bad job of spacing the floor for Cousins... and the Kings currently have two rookie PGs they're playing most of the minutes at that spot. Kings are near the bottom of the league in FG% and Assists, two things a great PG drastically affects.

How this roster will "fix itself" with time is beyond me. There needs to be changes.

well no kidding there needs to be changes, but not necessarily at the core of the team. a trio of cousins/evans/thornton works in the same fashion that a core of duncan/parker/ginobili has worked for so many years. in both scenarios, you have a franchise big man and two ball dominant guards who make their living at the rim, one of whom can't shoot (parker, evans), and one of whom can (ginobili, thornton). ultimately, gregg popovich determined that manu's skillset was best utilized off the bench, and he got his jump shooting from elsewhere. why do you think bruce bowen was so relished on those teams? he could hit from the outside, he played stellar defense, and he got out of the way of duncan and parker...

i've said it time and again, the kings should eventually do the same with thornton. you move him to the bench, but in a high usage role, after acquiring a guard who can share ball handling and passing duties with tyreke. how does that help the kings today? well, the short answer is that it doesn't. the kings' rookie guards aren't ready for the starting lineup, in my opinion. this season is lost, anyway, though. you try to develop consistency and chemistry in the time remaining, but this offseason is incredibly important. all the mistakes that were made last offseason (trading beno, acquiring john salmons, failing to resign dalembert, etc.) CANNOT be repeated...

 

[Section 101]

I'm not sure this word means what you think it does.

Evans has the physical ability to get up. I've seen him in warmups do a 360 dunk with super hops. We saw his dunk in Minny down the lane. He has the ability to get to the rim and dunk more, but he chooses to throw up the weaksauce all the time. I think he's scared of the contact which is why he chooses to reach for steals 99% of the time instead of trying to take a charge.

 

[macadocious]

I was just making a joke.

EDIT:

His vertical is by no means bad, but it's not exactly upper tier either.

 

[Padrino]

Wade plays above the rim, Evans chooses not too. Wade is also much quicker. They are different players.

wade is now 30 years old. if you watch even just the nationally-televised heat games, you'll notice that he no longer spends most of his time above the rim. he dunks from time to time, but most of his points come on layups these days. regardless, his above the rim game was NEVER his defining characteristic. that's the forte of players like blake griffin. instead, wade's slashing ability has ALWAYS been at the center of his talents. his talent for getting to the cup is what puts him in an elite class of guard. evans' has that same potential. will he ever develop along a similar trajectory? i dunno. he's 22 years old. its awfully hard to know that right now. but you anti-reke posters are so absolutely insane in your insistence that evans is never going to become anything worthwhile that i'm damn near ready to ask you to hand over the crystal ball. except i've got a feeling i'd be looking into an empty void of bias and bitterness, and i have no desire to invite such madness into my life...

 

[Padrino]

Evans has the physical ability to get up. I've seen him in warmups do a 360 dunk with super hops. We saw his dunk in Minny down the lane. He has the ability to get to the rim and dunk more, but he chooses to throw up the weaksauce all the time. I think he's scared of the contact which is why he chooses to reach for steals 99% of the time instead of trying to take a charge.

now this is just silliness. unbridled silliness. you really are verging on self-parody. tyreke is not an elite athlete. he makes his living on superior strength. you don't go driving into the lane as forcefully and insistently as he does if you're scared of contact. please. what are you trying to get away with here? 'reke can get up to dunk, but it requires more energy than he needs to be expending on most of his attempts at the rim. getting to the basket requires enough energy when you fight to the basket the way tyreke does..

 

[Section 101]

wade is now 30 years old. if you watch even just the nationally-televised heat games, you'll notice that he no longer spends most of his time above the rim. he dunks from time to time, but most of his points come on layups these days. regardless, his above the rim game was NEVER his defining characteristic. that's the forte of players like blake griffin. instead, wade's slashing ability has ALWAYS been at the center of his talents. his talent for getting to the cup is what puts him in an elite class of guard. evans' has that same potential. will he ever develop along a similar trajectory? i dunno. he's 22 years old. its awfully hard to know that right now. but you anti-reke posters are so absolutely insane in your insistence that evans is never going to become anything worthwhile that i'm damn near ready to ask you to hand over the crystal ball. except i've got a feeling i'd be looking into an empty void of bias and bitterness, and i have no desire to invite such madness into my life...

Yet, you post a video of Wade from 6 years ago for your point. You must not have watched Wade because he most certainly was and still is an above the rim player. I seem to recall him have a few dunks just in the Kings game. Point is if he has a choice between dunk vs layup he will do the dunk.

 

[Section 101]

now this is just silliness. unbridled silliness. you really are verging on self-parody. tyreke is not an elite athlete. he makes his living on superior strength. you don't go driving into the lane as forcefully and insistently as he does if you're scared of contact. please. what are you trying to get away with here? 'reke can get up to dunk, but it requires more energy than he needs to be expending on most of his attempts at the rim. getting to the basket requires enough energy when you fight to the basket the way tyreke does..

So why does he fade on his jumper? He should be begging people to bump him with his superior strength to get and ones. Funny how I say he can and should be dunking more because he has the physical capabilities yet the excuses of saving engergy come up. What is he saving his energy for? It's not like he's over 30. If he needs extra energy to be able to dunk in traffic then jump shots and the least of the worrys.