Based on your "perceptions," I'll take that as a compliment.
What I think the Kings management is doing
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Let me, once again, introduce the power teams around the NBA this season, and HOW they became the power teams aorund the league this season:
A) San Antonio Spurs -- go 20-62 in 1997, draft #1 overall Tim Duncan
B) Dallas Mavericks -- go 20-62 in 1998, draft Robert Traylor at #6 and trade him for Dirk Nowitzki (#9) on draft day
C) Utah Jazz -- 1) clean huge cap room which allows them to sign Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur as FAs, 2) go 26-56 in 2005, lets them nab the #3 pick, where they take Deron Williams
D) Phoenix Suns -- 1) clean huge cap room which allows them to sign some guy named Steve Nash; 2) go 36-46 in 2002, which lets them draft Amare Stoudamire at #9; 3) also drafted Shawn Marion at #9 in 1999, not sure how they got that pick.
E) Miami Heat -- 1) go 25-57 in 2003, which let's them draft Dwayne Wade at #5; 2) the Shaq thing obviously is a separate issue, althought they got him with another high draft pick (Caron Butler) and a big FA they singed with cap room (Lamar Odom)
F) Houston Rockets -- 1) go 28-54 in 2002, which nabs them the #1 pick where they take Yao Ming; 2) trade for McGrady = separate issue
G) Denver Nuggets -- 1) go 17-65 in 2003, draft Carmelo Anthony at #3; 2) the Iverson thing -- have to see how that works for them,
H)Cleveland Cavaliers -- go 17-65 in 2003, gets them the #1 pick whcih they use to draft LeBron James
I) Orlando Magic -- go 21-61 in 2004 whcih gets them the #1 pick where they draft Dwight Howard
J) Chicago Bulls -- go 13-37, 17-65, 15-67, 21-61, 30-52, 23-59 in 6 consecutive seasons, but end result is a huge stack of young talent and high draft picks, and then massive cap room which they use to sign Ben Wallace
Here are your exceptions, as always:
1) Lakers -- play by their own rules, got Kobe because they were the Lakers, but he was a lottery pick too. Hope for the future may surround Andrew Bynum, who they drafted at #10 after going 34-48 in 2005
2) Pistons -- the eternal fools' hope, the exception which proves the rule etc. etc.
Oh, BTW, classic era Kings: 1) trade for Chris Webber, former #1 overall pick in 1993; using Mitch Richmond, who we got in a draft day trade for our #3 pick Billy Owens)2) sign Vlad Divac wiht massive cap room; 3) draft Jason Williams and Predrag Stojakovic in the draft lottery after 27-55 and 39-43 seasons.
Losing, and losing BIG, is an absolutely core dynamic of almost every great team in the NBA. That is how you load up on talent. Cap room and high picks. Only once in a blue moon can you trade for a superstar, and normally when you do they are flawed, old etc. And EVEN when you do, history says you STILL need to suround them with top talent acquired in the lottery. McGrady, Iverson and Shaq have all moved. However, to the degree that matters it is because they are now teams with Yao (#1), Melo (#3) and Wade (#5). The power teams are overwhelmingly where they are today because they lost big at some point in the not too distant past. And we are quite likely to remain right where WE are today until we do the same thing at least once. And this is the year to do it. Not waiting around until we fall into a draft by accident and discover that its another Pervis Ellison year. Plan, target, aim, scoop, bounce back.
A) San Antonio Spurs -- go 20-62 in 1997, draft #1 overall Tim Duncan
B) Dallas Mavericks -- go 20-62 in 1998, draft Robert Traylor at #6 and trade him for Dirk Nowitzki (#9) on draft day
C) Utah Jazz -- 1) clean huge cap room which allows them to sign Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur as FAs, 2) go 26-56 in 2005, lets them nab the #3 pick, where they take Deron Williams
D) Phoenix Suns -- 1) clean huge cap room which allows them to sign some guy named Steve Nash; 2) go 36-46 in 2002, which lets them draft Amare Stoudamire at #9; 3) also drafted Shawn Marion at #9 in 1999, not sure how they got that pick.
E) Miami Heat -- 1) go 25-57 in 2003, which let's them draft Dwayne Wade at #5; 2) the Shaq thing obviously is a separate issue, althought they got him with another high draft pick (Caron Butler) and a big FA they singed with cap room (Lamar Odom)
F) Houston Rockets -- 1) go 28-54 in 2002, which nabs them the #1 pick where they take Yao Ming; 2) trade for McGrady = separate issue
G) Denver Nuggets -- 1) go 17-65 in 2003, draft Carmelo Anthony at #3; 2) the Iverson thing -- have to see how that works for them,
H)Cleveland Cavaliers -- go 17-65 in 2003, gets them the #1 pick whcih they use to draft LeBron James
I) Orlando Magic -- go 21-61 in 2004 whcih gets them the #1 pick where they draft Dwight Howard
J) Chicago Bulls -- go 13-37, 17-65, 15-67, 21-61, 30-52, 23-59 in 6 consecutive seasons, but end result is a huge stack of young talent and high draft picks, and then massive cap room which they use to sign Ben Wallace
Here are your exceptions, as always:
1) Lakers -- play by their own rules, got Kobe because they were the Lakers, but he was a lottery pick too. Hope for the future may surround Andrew Bynum, who they drafted at #10 after going 34-48 in 2005
2) Pistons -- the eternal fools' hope, the exception which proves the rule etc. etc.
Oh, BTW, classic era Kings: 1) trade for Chris Webber, former #1 overall pick in 1993; using Mitch Richmond, who we got in a draft day trade for our #3 pick Billy Owens)2) sign Vlad Divac wiht massive cap room; 3) draft Jason Williams and Predrag Stojakovic in the draft lottery after 27-55 and 39-43 seasons.
Losing, and losing BIG, is an absolutely core dynamic of almost every great team in the NBA. That is how you load up on talent. Cap room and high picks. Only once in a blue moon can you trade for a superstar, and normally when you do they are flawed, old etc. And EVEN when you do, history says you STILL need to suround them with top talent acquired in the lottery. McGrady, Iverson and Shaq have all moved. However, to the degree that matters it is because they are now teams with Yao (#1), Melo (#3) and Wade (#5). The power teams are overwhelmingly where they are today because they lost big at some point in the not too distant past. And we are quite likely to remain right where WE are today until we do the same thing at least once. And this is the year to do it. Not waiting around until we fall into a draft by accident and discover that its another Pervis Ellison year. Plan, target, aim, scoop, bounce back.
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datamanwes
G-League
Bricklayer
Does the fact that I have posted 6 times in my one year here make my opinion less than yours? I happen to post when I see something that needs poisting about. Unlike you who wants to share there opinion all the time.
Different styles is all, I just don't understand why someones post count would mean anything
Happy New years to all Kings fans
Does the fact that I have posted 6 times in my one year here make my opinion less than yours? I happen to post when I see something that needs poisting about. Unlike you who wants to share there opinion all the time.
Different styles is all, I just don't understand why someones post count would mean anything
Happy New years to all Kings fans
thenbakings
G-League
I would like to see us make some kind of trade. I would love to see Kenny Thomas sent packing. I think he makes this team worse and seems to be selfish. Did anyone notice how well the team played with him missing last night? He is turnover prone and clogs up the offense. He is just not a good fit for this team.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
While I agree we need to rebuild for the future, I don't think it is fair to say that Kings management has no plans or is doing patchwork moves that worsten our future rebuiling chances. While it is true that completely throwing in the towel and trading all players with any worth might give us a better change of landing the #1 pick, that is typically bad for business (good luck selling tickets) and not even a proven strategy for building a championship team. So while the Kings have tried to be sucessful the last couple of seasons and maybe been too patient for some, there are several facts that favor the Kings having a plan and not simply grasping desperately for a #8 seed.
1 - They have not traded any of their young players or picks. In a lot of patchwork deals, teams will trade a young player/picks ( along with a soon to expire contract player) for a veteran who can help immediatley. Over the last three years the Kings have used all of their first round picks getting Martin, Garcia and Douby and have kept all of them. While it is too early to say if these will all be good picks or not, the Kings have been rebuilding through the draft and not making short-sighted moves with these players or picks just to make the playoffs. This is exemplified by the rumor that the Kings pulled out of the Iverson sweepstakes because they were not willing to give up Kevin Martin. Now if you were really making moves just designed to limp into the playoffs, this deal would seem like a no brainer. I like Martin, but for at least this year, Iverson is still the better player and a legitimate star.
2 - They have not dealt away expiring contrats, unless getting one in return (i.e. Skinner for Pots). They have not followed the Knicks "rebuilding plan" and traded desirable expiring contracts for veterans and role players.
3 - They have not handed out big contracts. I found it ironic that some posters want to build for the future while being upset about the departures of Bonzi Wells and Cuttino Mobley. Now it would have been ideal to S&T them for young players and first round picks. However, no team was likely to offer those to us for Bonzi or Cat and we also would have had to take on contracts of nearly equal value in return. The Kings let them leave via free agency rather than overspend on them. Overspending would have been the desperation move made to boost our chances of making the playoffs to be fodder for a much better team; however, none of them were worth 1/5 or 1/6 of our payroll and the Kings made the smarter move of letting them go.
4 - The Kings have not even extended anyone's contract. Mike Bibby can choose the be a free agent at the end of the season and the Kings haven't worked to restructure his deal or do anything to keep him here. Ron Artest only has two years left and the Kings have not rushed to lock him up long term either. The Kings have not made any moves to kill future cap flexibility, which can certainly be one key component of rebuilding.
5 - Both Artest and Bibby are rumored to be on the trading block. While this all might be media-generated hype, if the Kings are shopping these two, it shows they are likely looking to the future.
To summarize, we have kept our picks and young players and done nothing to jeopardize our future cap space. This seems like a plan to me. With the exception of absolutley tanking (which again is not a smart business move), the Kings have acted as a reasonable rebuilding team would. As of now, I have not seen the Kings make any desperation moves meant to get the 8th seed at all costs.
1 - They have not traded any of their young players or picks. In a lot of patchwork deals, teams will trade a young player/picks ( along with a soon to expire contract player) for a veteran who can help immediatley. Over the last three years the Kings have used all of their first round picks getting Martin, Garcia and Douby and have kept all of them. While it is too early to say if these will all be good picks or not, the Kings have been rebuilding through the draft and not making short-sighted moves with these players or picks just to make the playoffs. This is exemplified by the rumor that the Kings pulled out of the Iverson sweepstakes because they were not willing to give up Kevin Martin. Now if you were really making moves just designed to limp into the playoffs, this deal would seem like a no brainer. I like Martin, but for at least this year, Iverson is still the better player and a legitimate star.
2 - They have not dealt away expiring contrats, unless getting one in return (i.e. Skinner for Pots). They have not followed the Knicks "rebuilding plan" and traded desirable expiring contracts for veterans and role players.
3 - They have not handed out big contracts. I found it ironic that some posters want to build for the future while being upset about the departures of Bonzi Wells and Cuttino Mobley. Now it would have been ideal to S&T them for young players and first round picks. However, no team was likely to offer those to us for Bonzi or Cat and we also would have had to take on contracts of nearly equal value in return. The Kings let them leave via free agency rather than overspend on them. Overspending would have been the desperation move made to boost our chances of making the playoffs to be fodder for a much better team; however, none of them were worth 1/5 or 1/6 of our payroll and the Kings made the smarter move of letting them go.
4 - The Kings have not even extended anyone's contract. Mike Bibby can choose the be a free agent at the end of the season and the Kings haven't worked to restructure his deal or do anything to keep him here. Ron Artest only has two years left and the Kings have not rushed to lock him up long term either. The Kings have not made any moves to kill future cap flexibility, which can certainly be one key component of rebuilding.
5 - Both Artest and Bibby are rumored to be on the trading block. While this all might be media-generated hype, if the Kings are shopping these two, it shows they are likely looking to the future.
To summarize, we have kept our picks and young players and done nothing to jeopardize our future cap space. This seems like a plan to me. With the exception of absolutley tanking (which again is not a smart business move), the Kings have acted as a reasonable rebuilding team would. As of now, I have not seen the Kings make any desperation moves meant to get the 8th seed at all costs.
jcassio
Starter
How do you expect Brick or anyone else to respond to you when you come on with something like...
Not that I don't feel like that myself at times, but you gotta realize that a general insult like that will make no friends.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Not that I don't feel like that myself at times, but you gotta realize that a general insult like that will make no friends.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
How do you expect Brick or anyone else to respond to you when you come on with something like...
Not that I don't feel like that myself at times, but you gotta realize that a general insult like that will make no friends.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Agreed, jcassio. It isn't so much the 6 posts that Brick mentioned, but coming here and insulting with only 6 posts. Everyone has a right to an opinion, no matter how many posts they have. But, to not be an active member and then insult everyone else.......well, that is shortsighted, to say the least.
datamanwes
G-League
I have read these threads every day for over a year. so I am not a newcomer, even if I don't post much
I expressed my opinion. I then responded to a post about my 6 posts and that I believed I had every right to express my opinion whether it was 6 posts or 6000. I wasn't trying to make friends or make enemies. Just saying my peace.. I still stand by my original statement that Kings management and coaches know more about the NBA than everyone that posts here. I don't see how that is debatable. although I realize someone may have a different opinion
I expressed my opinion. I then responded to a post about my 6 posts and that I believed I had every right to express my opinion whether it was 6 posts or 6000. I wasn't trying to make friends or make enemies. Just saying my peace.. I still stand by my original statement that Kings management and coaches know more about the NBA than everyone that posts here. I don't see how that is debatable. although I realize someone may have a different opinion
Could we please get back to the topic at hand?
datamanwes - Your post did not sound friendly. It sounded condescending. Message boards exist for people to pretend, for just a little while, that they might know more than the management of the team they love.
At this point, it would be best for all concerned if we just went back to the topic at hand.
Thanks.
VF21
Moderator
datamanwes - Your post did not sound friendly. It sounded condescending. Message boards exist for people to pretend, for just a little while, that they might know more than the management of the team they love.
At this point, it would be best for all concerned if we just went back to the topic at hand.
Thanks.
VF21
Moderator
I agree with 6th's comments about your post. I have maintained for quite a while that Petrie is like a chess master. He's looking at things much further down the road than a lot of the "instant gratification" fans that seem to be the norm more and more...
My honest opinion is that fantasy basketball and video games are RUINING fan perceptions of the NBA and what really happens.
Thanks for a thoughtful post.
On the contrary... it's quite debatable:
For all we know, the only reason why Petrie got his job in the first place is because he played in the NBA. And, while it's to his credit that he had the talent to play basketball at an NBA level, that doesn't qualify him as some kind of genius... Is Isaiah Thomas a genius? Danny Ainge? Kevin McHale?
I keep hearing people saying that GM's know more about basketball than regular people as if NBA GM's go to some kind of special school that makes them and them alone uniquely qualified to do their jobs. It doesn't take a genius to be an NBA GM; all it takes is friends in high places, and just enough basketball acumen to impress at an interview... kind of like coaching (yeah, that's right, I went there). You get your foot in the door, make a couple of good decisions, or luck into the number-one pick in a can't-miss draft and, suddenly, you look like a genius.
I'll be the first to admit that some of us here, myself included, probably overstate our knowledge of the game from time to time. But the very idea that nobody who posts here could be smart enough to do what they do, that the only people in the whole world qualified to be GM's are the guys that already have the jobs is... well, it's stupid.
datamanwes
G-League
Great point about Isaiah Thomas
I will contradict myself and say any of us could do at least as good a job as he has done. we sure couldn't do any worse
I will contradict myself and say any of us could do at least as good a job as he has done. we sure couldn't do any worse
Catalyst
G-League
Overall, just a well thought out and well written post. Thanks for sharing.
Elektrik
Starter
I'm glad somebody did. Nice job Slim.
nbrans
All-Star
Yup.
