What has to happen to move forward next year

funkykingston said:
Really?

Because it sure seemed like early on in the series the narrative was that the Kings were the team that was being allowed to play too physical. They also averaged more rebounds in the playoffs than any other team and were third in FTAs behind just the Clippers and Knicks which means they attacked the basket.

The biggest reasons the Kings offense took a dip were that (1) the Warriors focused on disrupting the DHO and the Kings were slow to counter that (2) their overall shooting took a big dive and (3) Fox broke his finger while Domas was dealing with chest contusions and assorted other bumps and bruises along with his avulsion fracture on his off hand.

The Kings can definitely improve, but they didn't lose in the playoffs because they were too finesse.
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Agree with all this - but I do think we need one more player 6’7” or taller that can put major pressure/force contact at the rim. This next step up from good to great is difficult - and I don’t see an obvious answer. I’m not totally out on John Collins - but I am skeptical. Siakam is the guy for me that could really move the needle - but that is a tough get.

We may just have to stockpile the best available talent and make a move at the trade deadline next year.
 
funkykingston said:
Really?

Because it sure seemed like early on in the series the narrative was that the Kings were the team that was being allowed to play too physical. They also averaged more rebounds in the playoffs than any other team and were third in FTAs behind just the Clippers and Knicks which means they attacked the basket.

The biggest reasons the Kings offense took a dip were that (1) the Warriors focused on disrupting the DHO and the Kings were slow to counter that (2) their overall shooting took a big dive and (3) Fox broke his finger while Domas was dealing with chest contusions and assorted other bumps and bruises along with his avulsion fracture on his off hand.

The Kings can definitely improve, but they didn't lose in the playoffs because they were too finesse.
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I agree. I specifically remember talking heads mentioning how the Kings are playing too physical. Red duck complained about us getting Away with too much.

We played ok considering it was the first time in 17 years. If Huerter and Barnes showed up even a little bit we probably when the series in five or six despite our two best players having broken bones in their hands that clearly were limiting them.

I think we will address things in the off season and come back a better team. Monte and Briwn have earned some faith.
 
Yeah after game 2 the Kings were too physical became the national narrative. We all know that's BS but sure enough following the stomp Looney and Dray when he returned were pretty much allowed to get away with ANYTHING, and we'd see Dray belittle the refs for the remaining games of the series after he got back with no further sanctioning, while they were quick to T up our guys.

We're not a finesse team and everyone learned that quick through 2 games, it's just the Dubs got handed favorable officiating as some compensation for a one game suspension for an assault that took place on the court. I will probably be seething about this until we see the second round of the playoffs or the Warriors go back to being irrelevant. Hopefully both happen next year, but it's gonna be a long year.
 
I’d love to keep Barnes as long as we have an upgrade at the PF/SF. He would be a great player to have coming off the bench with Lyles too.
 
It's weird because we have the rights to Sasha and of course Keegan and it might be a lot of crossover/too much of a good thing but reality is there's a lot of free agents we are probably comfortable moving on from this offseason and not a lot of targets so as long as we don't break the bank it just gives us flexibility to make moves down the road.

But also reality is part of the business end of winning is letting some real likeable folks go. A lesson many learned with Hali and I am sure we will learn several more times to take this all the way.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
Rumors: Kings want to keep Lyles and Barnes.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors...LXo2X6mTxfWi4ks0Hmdw9aed7qTGERoGmAwI30mnRPz-s
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I'd much much rather keep Barnes than go after Kuzma/Grant at a higher price tag. Keeping the team chemistry intact is obviously important and I doubt he can play any worse in the playoffs than he did this year.

Honestly, I'd be pretty excited if we finished the season off with signing Vezenkov over getting a traditional back-up 5 like Mason Plumlee. That'd mean we very likely commit to Lyles as the back-up C. Fox-Monk-Vezenkov-Lyles anchoring that 2nd unit rotation? Yeah... I'm in.
 
The_Jamal said:
I'd much much rather keep Barnes than go after Kuzma/Grant at a higher price tag. Keeping the team chemistry intact is obviously important and I doubt he can play any worse in the playoffs than he did this year.

Honestly, I'd be pretty excited if we finished the season off with signing Vezenkov over getting a traditional back-up 5 like Mason Plumlee. That'd mean we very likely commit to Lyles as the back-up C. Fox-Monk-Vezenkov-Lyles anchoring that 2nd unit rotation? Yeah... I'm in.
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yeh I guess if Lyles takes Metu’s minutes (10) and then squeezes out 6 more minutes at the 4 id be ok with it. Sasha would then get 10 minutes at the 4 and maybe 5 at the 3
 
iowamcnabb said:
yeh I guess if Lyles takes Metu’s minutes (10) and then squeezes out 6 more minutes at the 4 id be ok with it. Sasha would then get 10 minutes at the 4 and maybe 5 at the 3
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I don't see Brown ever playing Vezenkov at the 3. He looks like a 4 exclusively.

Vlade would say that he could play the 3 though
 
Bringing Sasha over, keeping Lyles, keeping Barnes, keeping Murray. Someones getting less minutes than desired somewhere unless someone is playing major minutes at the 5 or the 2. Be careful Monte.
 
iowamcnabb said:
yeh I guess if Lyles takes Metu’s minutes (10) and then squeezes out 6 more minutes at the 4 id be ok with it. Sasha would then get 10 minutes at the 4 and maybe 5 at the 3
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Well, the hope is we don't have to run Domas into the ground next year too with a capable back-up. Keep him fresh and healthy around 32-34 MPG rather than 36-38 MPG he played for most of the season.

Keegan 32 || Barnes 10 || Small-ball 6
Barnes 20 || Vezenkov 22 || Lyles 6
Sabonis 34 || Lyles 14

Sabonis 34
Keegan 32
Barnes 30
Vezenkov 22
Lyles 20

Big question is if Vezenkov can play at the 3 with Lyles/Domas or not. I think he's very interchangeable with Keegan or Barnes, so no concern there.
 
I'm a big time supporter of Lyles as a smallball 5. If been calling for it all season and was happy to see Brown go to it in the playoffs.

You still need a big body at times so you need to either sign someone new, bring back Len, or sign Queta to a true NBA deal and hope he makes a leap.

But yeah, Fox, Monk, Vezenkov, Lyles and either Huerter, Murray, or Edwards at the wing is a potent 2nd unit. You stagger Sasha's minutes so he also gets some time with Domas to take advantage of his floorspacing and cutting.

I've had some hope that the Kings could upgrade from HB, but I'm not sure how realistic that is, even with the Kings resurgence this season.

I wouldn't be super to see essentially the same roster next season with just a few tweaks. Hopefully Monte hits on that 24th pick for some added depth as well. Maybe package both 2nds to move up a few slots if Nnaji slips to the early second round.
 
I would like to see the Kings hire someone like James Worthy to coach the team in the preseason on how to run a fast break. There is a whole lot these young guys never learned. Their passing on the break leaves a lot to be desired.
 
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Vinny Basketballerino said:
Rumors: Kings want to keep Lyles and Barnes.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors...LXo2X6mTxfWi4ks0Hmdw9aed7qTGERoGmAwI30mnRPz-s
Click to expand...

I'm okay with re-signing HB, but please don't make a big overpay to keep him. Keeping him at the same salary of about $18 mil per year is the most I would go on his contract. $18 mil is more than any other team with cap space would likely offer him and after his playoff performance, there is no need to overpay. We need to keep him on a team friendly contract, because eventually he's going to need to slide to the bench in a couple of years.
 
ockingsfan said:
I'm okay with re-signing HB, but please don't make a big overpay to keep him. Keeping him at the same salary of about $18 mil per year is the most I would go on his contract. $18 mil is more than any other team with cap space would likely offer him and after his playoff performance, there is no need to overpay. We need to keep him on a team friendly contract, because eventually he's going to need to slide to the bench in a couple of years.
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I'm guessing 3yrs for 45-50. Harrison has made $150M in his career. I think what's far more valuable to him is to help this team get a ring. I think he'd be willing to take a very reasonable deal to allow us flexibility to do that. The next three to four years are the big push he knows that. This will be his last big contract before he is relegated to a vet locker room presence off the bench. And I could see him staying here at that time as well if it made sense for us. And there's a strong chance he moves to the bench before his contract is up anyway. Come to think of it a 2 year deal at 35ish might be more likely.
 
I don't think the Kings will go far if they keep the same roster next year. It's important to understand how the Kings got the success that they have this year. One of the reason is that there is no major injuries. Not taking anyway from their accomplishments but also remember the Kings sometimes playing teams that have stars out of their lineups. The Kings lack size and length in the roster and as I said before, if they ever face teams with a big dominant man in the middle, there is always a disadvantage right off the bat. In order to upgrade their team, they would have to add length and Barnes is the obvious only choice to cut...either him or Huerter. But I feel that Huerter may be a keeper if we can upgrade Barnes position with a guy like Naz Reid who can help with the rebound and blocking. He is definitely someone that we need to help solve the team deficiency and help out Sabonis in the interior defense. We give up Barnes fire power...in particular the post up game but I definitely think his team defense and even individual defense is lacking. Can the Kings win with the same roster next year? They sure can....but won't be getting to an elite level if they come back with the same roster.
 
Caccia said:
I will leave the speculation to those interested in it. Instead, here is a list of the current players who should be the nucleus in the future, most of whom are already under contract for next year. In other words, these will likely be the team's best players next year (listed by position):

Sabonis
Murray
Lyles
Edwards
Monk
Fox

I would add Mitchell to this group, given that he and Edwards bring an unrivalled intensity and skill to team defense.

Of those seven players, only Lyles and Edwards are free agents, but the Kings have a team option on Kessler.
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I wish Coach Brown had spoken as highly of Lyles as he had of Barnes. We know which one showed up in the playoffs. Among players who entered all seven games, he was third in +- at +6.1, behind Len and Monk, demonstrating an impact commensurate with his tenacity. Barnes was last at -11.4, and it wasn't close.

Barnes is a fine player, but Trey would be a whole lot less expensive to sign to a longer-term contract.

Edit: The official Sacramento Kings twitter account has a whole series of Trey Lyles "tweets" up right now. That is a good sign!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657185452120498177
 
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reptilexcq2 said:
I don't think the Kings will go far if they keep the same roster next year. It's important to understand how the Kings got the success that they have this year. One of the reason is that there is no major injuries. Not taking anyway from their accomplishments but also remember the Kings sometimes playing teams that have stars out of their lineups. The Kings lack size and length in the roster and as I said before, if they ever face teams with a big dominant man in the middle, there is always a disadvantage right off the bat. In order to upgrade their team, they would have to add length and Barnes is the obvious only choice to cut...either him or Huerter. But I feel that Huerter may be a keeper if we can upgrade Barnes position with a guy like Naz Reid who can help with the rebound and blocking. He is definitely someone that we need to help solve the team deficiency and help out Sabonis in the interior defense. We give up Barnes fire power...in particular the post up game but I definitely think his team defense and even individual defense is lacking. Can the Kings win with the same roster next year? They sure can....but won't be getting to an elite level if they come back with the same roster.
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This is true. The one positive is Mike Brown did seem to get the most out of his role guys in a pinch. The other thing is the issue of the post deadline West. The Suns, Lakers, and potentially even the Mavs aren't the same teams they were pre deadline. What was enough fire power before (which it might not have been to begin with) might be a thing of the past.
 
Seeing the great parity in the league and all the tumult with teams that didn't meet expectations (Bucks, Phoenix, Toronto, Memphis, etc.), I'm expecting a lot of player movement this summer.

Hopefully, the Kings can nab a couple of players with length, size and defense to round out their roster along with bringing Sasha over.
 
I am of the mind at this moment less might be more. If you can bring back both Barnes and Lyle's you do so. Honestly I would prioritize Lyle's over Barnes only because I think Sasha could be an upgrade but you absolutely have to back him up with someone who can defend. I think Monty has the luxury of drafting for talent rather than position because we're not going to get a backup center in the draft who is ready to take big minutes but that guy might be Queta. I could definitely see wait until the bulk of the free agents have been signed to pick up the best deal possible on a experienced backup center just in case. But for the most part I really think the guys we have did so well so fast you kind of want to give them the chance to show what they can do with what they learned. Some of the most important intangibles are there in terms of team cohesion, team buy-in and most importantly team support. You toy with that at the risk of damaging something that will be very hard to replace. Looking back over the last 16 years one of the biggest problems has been consistency. I think the best solution to that is to be consistent. You get trust by giving trust and you get dedication by being dedicated.
 
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I think the Kings are in great shape. Bringing back Lyles, signing Sasha, a couple of draft picks in a deep draft where you bring in youth or you deal to complete the roster.
Stability in the coaching staff and front office
Vivek seemingly figuring out how to stay out of the way
A couple of all-stars in place

And our competition getting a year older (Warriors and Lakers) or imploding (Memphis and Suns)
 
reptilexcq2 said:
as I said before, if they ever face teams with a big dominant man in the middle, there is always a disadvantage right off the bat.
Click to expand...

It feels strange to say this about a guy who is a 3 time all star and made an All NBA team this season, but I agree that it is the case. The drawback to a player at center who would have been a power forward in prior decades
 
Keegan has to turn into Peja.. You had Bibby, and Webber doing a lot of the scoring, but then you had this SF in Peja quietly averaging between 18ppg and 23ppg in the background of Bibby, Webber, and Divac. Keegan needs to become that.

Also, you need growth with the chemistry between Fox/Keegan/Sabonis/ Hueter and KEEP BARNES. Keep Lyles, Mitchell, and definitely Monk. I would like to keep TD too but we really don't have any space for him here. He isn't a good enough PG to take Mitchells position, even though he's a better scorer by far.

Basically just grow.. We don't really need to make any changes to the core players.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I'm guessing 3yrs for 45-50. Harrison has made $150M in his career. I think what's far more valuable to him is to help this team get a ring. I think he'd be willing to take a very reasonable deal to allow us flexibility to do that. The next three to four years are the big push he knows that. This will be his last big contract before he is relegated to a vet locker room presence off the bench. And I could see him staying here at that time as well if it made sense for us. And there's a strong chance he moves to the bench before his contract is up anyway. Come to think of it a 2 year deal at 35ish might be more likely.
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Let's see. It usually doesn't work that way.

This is going to be his last big contract, and he will likely look for a final payday. Plus agents usually want their clients to sign for the biggest possible amount. Not only is their cut higher, they are able to sell that to other clients too, and send a message out to other teams too that they shouldn't expect a discount.

I'm okay with overpaying Barnes a little to show our appreciation for his efforts, as long as the contract is front loaded and there is no trade kicker. I assume that we are not going after some big FA this season. It probably makes sense to see what we have with a second year Keegan, a team with some PO experience, and potentially Sasha. Front loaded contract makes Barnes more movable later.
 
kingsfan101 said:
I'm okay with overpaying Barnes a little to show our appreciation for his efforts, as long as the contract is front loaded and there is no trade kicker. I assume that we are not going after some big FA this season. It probably makes sense to see what we have with a second year Keegan, a team with some PO experience, and potentially Sasha. Front loaded contract makes Barnes more movable later.
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Yeah, perhaps this is the "compromise".

But to your latter point there... I tend to agree. Have said it before, this team needs another year to cook before we go making moves that sacrifice flexibility for talent in a big push.
 
kingsfan101 said:
I'm okay with overpaying Barnes a little to show our appreciation for his efforts, as long as the contract is front loaded and there is no trade kicker. I assume that we are not going after some big FA this season. It probably makes sense to see what we have with a second year Keegan, a team with some PO experience, and potentially Sasha. Front loaded contract makes Barnes more movable later.
Click to expand...
Vinny Basketballerino said:
Yeah, perhaps this is the "compromise".

But to your latter point there... I tend to agree. Have said it before, this team needs another year to cook before we go making moves that sacrifice flexibility for talent in a big push.
Click to expand...
I do not think the Kings have the luxury of waiting another year, since Sabonis will be a UFA in 2024. His extension will eat up a lot of cap-space. So the best time to make a move is now. Barnes will be the weak link in the starting 5 going forward, IMO, and is the most obvious to replace or upgrade. It does not need to be a 3rd star who is added... but a higher quality player than Barnes needs to be added, whether Barnes stays or goes.
 
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Here’s what I would like to see in a perfect world in the off season.

1-Kings bring over Sasha
2-Kings draft Kris Murray (if available) and just like Monk and Fox I think the Murray brothers would add even more cohesiveness.
3-Kings sign Naz Reid. Young, big, center to back up Domas with what I think is a huge upside. Big body that can rebound. Domas could move to PF
4-Kings trade for Mikal Bridges. He still young and can play. Trade Davion and Huerter. Trade works on Real GM. I don’t like giving up Davion but in order to get quality, you have to give up quality. Monk and Delly can back up Fox.
5-Time for HB to move on. Like the guy a lot but we’ve seen the best he has, and it isn’t enough. Maybe a sign and trade for a shot blocker?
Thoughts?
 
I reserve to right to change my mind (maybe even by the end of the day haha) but as of right now I’m in the Bring Barnes Back camp. The leadership, efficiency, adaptability, chemistry and availability is just too valuable to give up unless you are getting a clear upgrade.

I don’t see a great candidate that won’t block the ascension of Keegan Murray. The front office believes he can be an all star and so do his teammates. Give him the room to grow.

The great think about HB is he can adapt to any role. If he is your 5th best starter you are a dang good team and I expect that to be the case this year. I’d be in favor of a 3 year deal, something that could be moved after next season if we see an opportunity
 
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