What has to happen to move forward next year

[SacTownKid]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/free-agents-harrison-barnes-trey-163903979.html

This doesn't need to be overthought - bring every player back, and give them the chance to work together longer...that includes Davis, Len, Metu, Lyles, Barnes. Extend minutes and give players more chances to improve.....for some its offense, and others its defense.
Dozier has some promise....extend Sabonis, Monk if possible. . Sabonis is more of a Point C/PF than all others except maybe Jokic. Draft the best player available - possibly Center or PF. They're set on guards especially.

Monte has had guts and it's worked for him thusfar. If that meant breaking hearts, that's meant breaking hearts. Keep going Monte.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/free-agents-harrison-barnes-trey-163903979.html

This doesn't need to be overthought - bring every player back, and give them the chance to work together longer...that includes Davis, Len, Metu, Lyles, Barnes. Extend minutes and give players more chances to improve.....for some its offense, and others its defense.
Dozier has some promise....extend Sabonis, Monk if possible. . Sabonis is more of a Point C/PF than all others except maybe Jokic. Draft the best player available - possibly Center or PF. They're set on guards especially.

Not a bad idea. We hardly ever see this in pro sports, but I think in this situation it could lead to a deeper run the playoffs. I also want to see what Kessler Edwards can do with this team, after a full training camp

 

[Joshoua]

Keegan looked good, but Siakam is an all star and close to franchise guy. Don't get too attached here. Obviously you don't want to cripple your franchise but personally, I think De'Aaron Fox is THAT good. Sabonis is THAT good. That's the thought process in my mind. Is Keegan franchise material? He could be, clearly not in the role of DHO guy but while there is something to be said about potential, there is also something to be said about guarantee. These same things were said about Hali and I think Hali has a much better shot at being the type of player in the modern league that leads a team. Monte set the table here. Now might come the follow through.

Siakam isn’t close to being a franchise guy he’s closer to sixth man than that

 

[SacTownKid]

Siakam isn’t close to being a franchise guy he’s closer to sixth man than that

what...???? Look, I've been pretty down on Siakam when all those talks were swirling before this current situation started but heck no.

 

[Kingster]

Yeah I don't understand the apprehension to Kuzma. To me he seems like a great fit and obviously fills multiple needs for us.

The apprehension has to do with his defense. I didn't watch one full game of Kuzma this year, but from what I saw in prior years he wasn't the type of player you'd add to your team for defense. He's also just an ok rebounder and it's pretty obvious this team needs to give Sabonis some help in that regard.

 

[ockingsfan]

The apprehension has to do with his defense. I didn't watch one full game of Kuzma this year, but from what I saw in prior years he wasn't the type of player you'd add to your team for defense. He's also just an ok rebounder and it's pretty obvious this team needs to give Sabonis some help in that regard.

If Kuzma is looking for $30 mil a year as rumored, he would be a NO for me. I would save the shots he would command and give them to Keegan to develop him as the 3rd star we need.

 

[Kingster]

I don’t think Monte will make a move involving Keegan unless it’s for a slam dunk get us to the championship type of guy. All the names I’m seeing right now, I just don’t know. It would be difficult dealing him and his 3 point shooting ability which is elite. I’d wait half a year to see how he progresses before pulling the trigger.

There is still upside to be tapped into with Keegan and our window is wide open for awhile. I could see our pick getting deal for an elite role player who is out there or Monte finding the next Lyles. I also believe Kessler Edwards is going to develop into an important stopper on this team. He’s not another Troy Williams. We have already seen Edwards stop a Devin Booker

Knowing Monte, he’s going to find a better version of Kessler Edwards in a low key deal or signing

I haven't seen Edwards demonstrate impactful defense on the floor like his reputation would suggest. It's not like he makes an impact like Mitchell or even Ellis. At least for me, Edwards has been more surprising on the upside in his offense and on the downside in his defense.

 

[reptilexcq2]

The apprehension has to do with his defense. I didn't watch one full game of Kuzma this year, but from what I saw in prior years he wasn't the type of player you'd add to your team for defense. He's also just an ok rebounder and it's pretty obvious this team needs to give Sabonis some help in that regard.

He's not a great shooter either, I mean just look at this career stats...not a great 3 point shooter. I don't know why people want him.

 

[Kingster]

The more I think about it, the more I think Barnes has got to go. Barnes has average quickness for peripheral defense and barely-adequate length for the interior. He's just an ok rebounder. Which is the definition of mediocrity on the defensive end of the floor. So if your team has a hole in length and defense and rebounding why is he essential to your future success? Can the Kings do without his outside shooting? I think Murray and Lyles could make up for it. Can they do without his drives to the basket and his propensity to go to the free throw line? Maybe that is the area he would be missed the most. Could Murray and Lyles make up for that? Possibly, with an additional year of experience, they could. And then of course there is the player you could get with Barnes' money in return. All in all, I like Barnes as a basketball player and a person; I just don't see how he addresses the needs for this team going forward.

 

[iowamcnabb]

This is another concern though. I brought it up during the season. The only semi-modern team that mirrors the Kings shot distribution is the mid 2000's Pistons. And it's not hard to see the difference between this Kings team and that team, lol. If the Kings can get to that level defensively then just ride the wave haha.

As for Monk. Monk isn't some new thing. He's ready now and developed. He was a great value and he and Fox obviously had synergy. Do I think counting on Monk as the missing thing should be the plan? Hell no. Nope. And for two reasons. He did about what you'd expect at his top end and more and that still got you bounced as a 3 seed. This is yet another reason why I think Monte needs to continue to be pedal to the metal BTW, Monk has one year left. One! Times not only ticking, but ticking big time with him. Gosh, it's funny how times change. I can recall being in the place of many posters now, arguing with posters like Brick for the same reasons many here are, and now realizing, they knew what they knew what they were talking about, haha. It's the repeated pain that shows you the way unfortunately. I think Monte knows what he's doing and regardless, he and Wes or whoever else has earned the choice.

i do think Monk can get better with his consistency. That’s the area I’ll look to see growth from. As of right now he is your super sub in the mold of Poole. They have similar inconsistencies but I think Monk has his head screwed on a little tighter.

the reality is the championship generally goes to the team with a top 5 player and we don’t have one so I suppose Monte is trying to carve a different path as that player isn’t walking through the door.

I’ll probably change my mind a couple times before free agency etc but as of right now I lean towards bringing the core back and see what internal growth can do for us. I think we learned a lot in that series and we will pushed a 4 time and reigning champ to 7 games. I se that as a major major success

 

[reptilexcq2]

As far as I'm concerned Fox, Sabonis, Keegan and Monk are untouchable at this point, they are my core.

Considering that Minnesota already has $77 mil (2023) and then $94 mil (2024) committed to the KAT and Gobert duo, I think there is a good chance we could pry him away from Minnesota with a starting PF/C spot and starter money (i.e. $56 mil/4 year contract. I find it hard to believe that Minnesota would pony up $90 mil (2023) and then $107 mil (2024) to the PF and C spot when they are going to need to max Anthony Edwards and sign Jaden McDaniels next year too.

Reid helps address our defensive issue more than HB, so I think he fits in like a glove next to Sabonis and Keegan. I think Reid can slide into the 4 and Sabonis can stay at the 5. Re-sign Lyles and bring in Sasha.

PF: Naz Reid / Sasha
SF: Keegan / Edwards / 1st round pick
C: Sabonis / Lyles / Queta
SF: Huerter / Monk
PG: Fox / Mitchell

IMHO, I think this would be a well rounded team that could contend for a title in a year or two.

That's not a bad lineup. I always thought and I am sure everyone know by now that the Kings weakness throughout the season is the rebounding due to lack of size and length (especially when we play against teams with a BIG in the middle). Even Sabonis can get overwhelmed. Naz Reid will help solve that issue and more. You wouldn't want a big that can't shoot though because that'll prevent opening up for Fox to attack. But Reid can shoot. So if the Kings want to take it to another level, they must sign these type of players.

 

[SacTownKid]

i do think Monk can get better with his consistency. That’s the area I’ll look to see growth from. As of right now he is your super sub in the mold of Poole. They have similar inconsistencies but I think Monk has his head screwed on a little tighter.

the reality is the championship generally goes to the team with a top 5 player and we don’t have one so I suppose Monte is trying to carve a different path as that player isn’t walking through the door.

I’ll probably change my mind a couple times before free agency etc but as of right now I lean towards bringing the core back and see what internal growth can do for us. I think we learned a lot in that series and we will pushed a 4 time and reigning champ to 7 games. I se that as a major major success

I think we also saw the reality, Fox is super close to that top 5 guy. On the other side, I agree, Monk is the super sub, but super subs are super likely to get poached so as is it is now, that shortens your window. Do what you need to now, not later. I'm not saying Monte should do whatever, shoot for the moon and if it doesn't work out asset wise then figure it out. Right now I think shooting for the potential moon is Siakam, then Beal and LaVine in that order, if the rumors are true.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The more I think about it, the more I think Barnes has got to go. Barnes has average quickness for peripheral defense and barely-adequate length for the interior. He's just an ok rebounder. Which is the definition of mediocrity on the defensive end of the floor. So if your team has a hole in length and defense and rebounding why is he essential to your future success? Can the Kings do without his outside shooting? I think Murray and Lyles could make up for it. Can they do without his drives to the basket and his propensity to go to the free throw line? Maybe that is the area he would be missed the most. Could Murray and Lyles make up for that? Possibly, with an additional year of experience, they could. And then of course there is the player you could get with Barnes' money in return. All in all, I like Barnes as a basketball player and a person; I just don't see how he addresses the needs for this team going forward.

Agree. It would be tough to see them run a 6'7 guy back out there as our starting 4. I like Lyles a lot, because he can play stretch 4 as well as the small ball 5, along with improved rebounding over Barnes

 

[reptilexcq2]

The more I think about it, the more I think Barnes has got to go. Barnes has average quickness for peripheral defense and barely-adequate length for the interior. He's just an ok rebounder. Which is the definition of mediocrity on the defensive end of the floor. So if your team has a hole in length and defense and rebounding why is he essential to your future success? Can the Kings do without his outside shooting? I think Murray and Lyles could make up for it. Can they do without his drives to the basket and his propensity to go to the free throw line? Maybe that is the area he would be missed the most. Could Murray and Lyles make up for that? Possibly, with an additional year of experience, they could. And then of course there is the player you could get with Barnes' money in return. All in all, I like Barnes as a basketball player and a person; I just don't see how he addresses the needs for this team going forward.

Exactly, you're right on point. The Kings need to know there is a ceiling in Barnes' talent giving the age that he is in now. Is he a solid and fundamentally sound player? Yes. But there is a ceiling in everything he does. He can't rise up and overpower everybody and grab the rebound due to lack of size and strength despite boxing out, he can't challenge, intimidate and block shots, his team help defense is pretty weak, his individual defense doesn't scare anybody. And not taking anything away from what he accomplished such as the ability to attack and draw fouls and really help the team break momentum from time to time...but for the sake of the team, they would have to address size and length to help with rebounding and block shots. Size is a problem with the way the team is structure....Sabonis Keegan and Fox is set as the starter (but Sabonis isn't most lengthy and athletic)....so either Barnes is the obvious position to upgrade to address that problem or Huerter. If not, we're going to continue to be hurt by getting outrebounded and the inability to guard big guys in this league. I suggest Naz Reid is the answer that we needed.

 

[SacTownKid]

Agree. It would be tough to see them run a 6'7 guy back out there as our starting 4. I like Lyles a lot, because he can play stretch 4 as well as the small ball 5, along with improved rebounding over Barnes

Thinking you can replace a Barnes with someone that had plenty of opportunities during the season or otherwise is what gets teams into serious long term trouble if it doesn't work out. If Brown saw Lyles as a true small ball 5 that changes his value but it wasn't until he was totally desperate before Brown saw that.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Thinking you can replace a Barnes with someone that had plenty of opportunities during the season or otherwise is what gets teams into serious long term trouble if it doesn't work out. If Brown saw Lyles as a true small ball 5 that changes his value but it wasn't until he was totally desperate before Brown saw that.

Why couldn't you replace him with someone who provides something that you need over who Barnes is as a player? To me, Harrison has always been a small forward. We need more size at the 4. We'll have good length at the 3 with Murray, who I expect to get stronger.

Brown invested a lot of time in Metu as the small ball 5, but then never believed in him enough to play him in the playoffs. I don't think that would happen with Lyles. My biggest complaint was how that back up big position was handled during the season. If Lyles isn't your starter, then bring him back as your first 4/5 off the bench

 

[SacTownKid]

Why couldn't you replace him with someone who provides something that you need over who Barnes is as a player? To me, Harrison has always been a small forward. We need more size at the 4. We'll have good length at the 3 with Murray, who I expect to get stronger.

Brown invested a lot of time in Metu as the small ball 5, but then never believed in him enough to play him in the playoffs. I don't think that would happen with Lyles. My biggest complaint was how that back up big position was handled during the season. If Lyles isn't your starter, then bring him back as your first 4/5 off the bench

Because Lyles and Barnes are like comparing an apple to an a orange. In this case, Barnes is one of the few oranges on your roster that can get his own or get to the line when called upon. Two of the keyest staples of playoff ball. Barnes was one of the biggest reasons the Kings got those first two wins. Once the other guys stepped up it was 4 of 5 for the Dubs. History shows Barnes won't be that guy for 7 but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater unless you're sure a better baby is sitting there.

 

[Kingster]

Thinking you can replace a Barnes with someone that had plenty of opportunities during the season or otherwise is what gets teams into serious long term trouble if it doesn't work out. If Brown saw Lyles as a true small ball 5 that changes his value but it wasn't until he was totally desperate before Brown saw that.

Only Brown can know for sure, but I really wonder after Brown takes a look at the film of this series and has a long re-think whether he has more belief in Lyles as a small ball 5. Also, if the Kings do go out and get a lengthy defensive player, it could make it easier for Brown to put Lyles out there at the 5 because of the fact there is a lengthy player complementing Lyles on the defensive end.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Because Lyles and Barnes are like comparing an apple to an a orange. In this case, Barnes is one of the few oranges on your roster that can get his own or get to the line when called upon. Two of the keyest staples of playoff ball. Barnes was one of the biggest reasons the Kings got those first two wins. Once the other guys stepped up it was 4 of 5 for the Dubs. History shows Barnes won't be that guy for 7 but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater unless you're sure a better baby is sitting there.

Yeah, I just think it would help the team to have a good sized power forward in the lineup. It probably won't help in the one on one take off the dribble category, but I'm expecting Murray to have an expanded role

 

[TaxMan]

If we are going to look at trade partners, I would think Atlanta is logical. They are likely in need of a shake-up this off season, which could be a blockbuster Young trade (not to the kings), or movement of some of their more expensive peripheral pieces. Given the Huerter trade, they are the only team where we could easily trade more draft picks by agreeing to remove the protections on the first rounder we sent to them previously.

1. Hunter: Seems like he's stalled out a bit and might be injury prone, but feels like he would be a really nice, young defensive upgrade on HB if we want to go that route
2. Collins: He always pops up in rumors with us so somebody in the kings front office must love him. If he could just learn how to shoot again. Maybe he would fit right in with his jacked up finger (Domas, Fox, Murray finger injuries this year)
3. Bey: He played pretty well for them after coming over from Detroit mid season. Not sure of his contract situation, but I believe he's due a new contract off of his rookie deal.
4. Capella: I can't see him playing with Domas, but who knows....

 

[kingsfan101]

The only way I even entertain a trade involving Keegan is if a bonafide star is coming back to us. Siakam, to me, is just not it. Not one of those guys is it, IMO. Keegan needs to be moved to the 3 spot and we need to get Domas a partner in crime, preferably a good rebounder and solid defensive big. Not super worried about fit as Domas spends a lot of time at the top of the key initiating the offense and when he does go to the paint, they can switch out.

Kings should consider upgrading Huerter if they can. I love me some red velvet, but he completely wilted in this series and was a big part of our struggles shooting the ball. I would resign Barnes if he is willing to come off the bench at a lower salary, but if not then I’d let him walk or try to do a sign and trade. He too, completely laid a goose egg for most of the series, especially shooting wise.

Actually, the Durant/Bridges trade and the Fox-Hali/Simmons non-trade is making me think that even trading for a star is not always a home run.

I'm not bashing the Suns. In fact, when they made that trade, I thought they became instant favorites for the title. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, seeing it in a different perspective now. Of course, that can change if the Suns win at home, and get their act together to beat the Nuggets. Else, it will feel like they could have gotten to the second round even without the trade. Nets by contrast, got a future star, who had willingly sacrificed his game in Phoenix, and a bunch of future assets.

Bottom line. Don't trade Keegan. I know there will always be theoretical trades that will make us say yes, but there will be virtually no real world case where trading him will make sense. He's not only an excellent player, but exactly the kind that are needed on winning teams. Let him play, grow, and enjoy the ride for the next decade and more.

I also wouldn't worry too much about Huerter yet. Yes, he had a bad series, but he had a good season. Upgrading is not easy, and can easily backfire. I think continuity will be super important as the team grows. If Keegan develops into a bonafide third star, lot of issues will be resolved.

The real question is course Barnes. Bringing him back makes sense in many ways, but at what cost, for how long, and in what role? Do we prioritize Trey over him, or will Sasha ultimately take that spot?

I would love if we can front load HB's contract and bring him back. In another couple of years, as his play dips and age grows, hopefully someone else is ready to step in. He can move to the bench/can be traded as the smaller contract then would be more easily moveable.

 

[KF8]

Not sold on Naz Reid as our starter, unless Keegan can keep up with faster wings on the defensive end.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Not sold on Naz Reid as our starter, unless Keegan can keep up with faster wings on the defensive end.

Our starting "wings" this season were Murray and Barnes. How often were faster wings the reason for a loss? If it was an issue, Brown just went to a 3 guard lineup and later in the season had Edwards to use off the bench

 

[miltonap]

Our starting "wings" this season were Murray and Barnes. How often were faster wings the reason for a loss? If it was an issue, Brown just went to a 3 guard lineup and later in the season had Edwards to use off the bench

I'm mainly thinking about Barnes, wasn't it an issue with us needing to rotate and him having slower foot speed or am I trippin?

I think that why Barnes didn't really play at the end, too slow

 

[Sac.Kings]

Actually, the Durant/Bridges trade and the Fox-Hali/Simmons non-trade is making me think that even trading for a star is not always a home run.

I'm not bashing the Suns. In fact, when they made that trade, I thought they became instant favorites for the title. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, seeing it in a different perspective now. Of course, that can change if the Suns win at home, and get their act together to beat the Nuggets. Else, it will feel like they could have gotten to the second round even without the trade. Nets by contrast, got a future star, who had willingly sacrificed his game in Phoenix, and a bunch of future assets.

Bottom line. Don't trade Keegan. I know there will always be theoretical trades that will make us say yes, but there will be virtually no real world case where trading him will make sense. He's not only an excellent player, but exactly the kind that are needed on winning teams. Let him play, grow, and enjoy the ride for the next decade and more.

I also wouldn't worry too much about Huerter yet. Yes, he had a bad series, but he had a good season. Upgrading is not easy, and can easily backfire. I think continuity will be super important as the team grows. If Keegan develops into a bonafide third star, lot of issues will be resolved.

The real question is course Barnes. Bringing him back makes sense in many ways, but at what cost, for how long, and in what role? Do we prioritize Trey over him, or will Sasha ultimately take that spot?

I would love if we can front load HB's contract and bring him back. In another couple of years, as his play dips and age grows, hopefully someone else is ready to step in. He can move to the bench/can be traded as the smaller contract then would be more easily moveable.

Keegan is one tier below untouchable for me. Rookie contract and a great shooter already, not to mention a no nonsense hard worker and team player. He’s got a ton going for him right now. You absolutely don’t trade him for a move that may or may not work. It would have to be one hell of a trade for me to even consider the possibility of trading him.

I don’t know about HB, I don’t want him starting again. He just doesn’t bring enough anymore to warrant a starting role. I’m not opposed to bringing him back, but would have to be a bench role with a friendly contract. Otherwise I let him walk and try to bring Sasha over. Huerter has a lot to prove next season, he can’t disappear like that. If we are to push to a deeper playoffs run, he can’t be bricking 3/4 shots for 7 straight games. Unacceptable from your starting SG.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I don’t see Hueter as a Brown guy at all. He has zero defense and brown is all about defense. He went with offense because that was our strength this season. He’s going to want a guy he doesn’t have to sub out in situations. The only person that fit that bill last season was Hueter.

No way on earth keagan is traded. He’s a coaches dream. He’s maltempeted listens and is talented. He’s not going anywhere.

personally I’d start Monk, use TD the way we used monk this year. Trade Hueter, Holmes, Barnes if possible with a sign and trade for a real PF or Center whatever brings best value.

Let Quenta play, resign Lyles, Mitchelle and run with it. Even maybe this unpopular view.

Drop Barnes, pick up Brooks (yes I hate him too)
And run it back with some attitude

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Why is everyone hating on the Suns trade as if they are eliminated or something? Their season would be over right now with Paul injured, instead they can still win and are not sitting at home like we are. They can trade any one of those stars and get draft picks anytime. I wish we traded for Durant, even if it’s for two more years they would be glorious. Took us 17 years to taste this, Durant doesn’t miss the playoffs ever unless injured, I mean ever!

 

[Rob-The-Great]

My money says we try to sign brooks and use his defense. He’s a pain he’s but we need some grit out there. And he’s a brown type of guy as far as Defense first kinda guy

 

[dude12]

As noted in another thread, if HB camp is asking for 4/94 then we will be replacing him. That is a non-starter price point. They will miss his locker room presence but this team has others who can fill that void. I think some combination of Veznekov, Edwards, Lyles and any small ball lineup could join Keegan and replace the HB production…….and then there is bringing someone on in free agency or trade.

 

[Sac.Kings]

My money says we try to sign brooks and use his defense. He’s a pain he’s but we need some grit out there. And he’s a brown type of guy as far as Defense first kinda guy

I don’t think we touch Brooks with a ten foot pole, let alone sign him. That guy may very well have trash talked his way into insignificance. There’s only so much teams are willing to deal with and he’s a dangerous type of persona. I wouldn’t want that drama here. He can go poke bears elsewhere.