What has to happen to move forward next year
- Thread starter sactowndog
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Fox, Sabonis, and Monk will get there’s no matter what add in guys that think they’re how crap like Grant and he’s stepping ahead of Murray whether y’all like it or not. How many shots is the 4-5 option who plays smart gonna get a game it’s just makes no sense to add another scorer let Murray develop into that role and monk being the 4th scorer and we’re good
Yup and which bridges? The only one Mikal I’d deal Murray for is virtually untouchable so that’s out the question anyways. Lavine/Beal are fools gold who play no defense and Siakam/OG don’t brink enough shooting to justify trading an elite shooter who projects to be a perfect 3rd scorer away
Siakam is a nice player and put up hood numbers but dudes shooting 33-36% from 3 that’s not gonna cut it when teams are already packing the paint on us. I’m not trading a rookie who just shot 41% on 6 attempts for that
Siakam is a nice player and put up hood numbers but dudes shooting 33-36% from 3 that’s not gonna cut it when teams are already packing the paint on us. I’m not trading a rookie who just shot 41% on 6 attempts for that
The only way I even entertain a trade involving Keegan is if a bonafide star is coming back to us. Siakam, to me, is just not it. Not one of those guys is it, IMO. Keegan needs to be moved to the 3 spot and we need to get Domas a partner in crime, preferably a good rebounder and solid defensive big. Not super worried about fit as Domas spends a lot of time at the top of the key initiating the offense and when he does go to the paint, they can switch out.
Kings should consider upgrading Huerter if they can. I love me some red velvet, but he completely wilted in this series and was a big part of our struggles shooting the ball. I would resign Barnes if he is willing to come off the bench at a lower salary, but if not then I’d let him walk or try to do a sign and trade. He too, completely laid a goose egg for most of the series, especially shooting wise.
Kings should consider upgrading Huerter if they can. I love me some red velvet, but he completely wilted in this series and was a big part of our struggles shooting the ball. I would resign Barnes if he is willing to come off the bench at a lower salary, but if not then I’d let him walk or try to do a sign and trade. He too, completely laid a goose egg for most of the series, especially shooting wise.
This isn't a Haliburton situation. There isn't a logjam at the 3/4 on this team, so Monte shouldn't be looking to deal Murray.
I'm of the mindset that Murray will be whatever Mike Brown asks him to be. He'll work on it over the summer and be that guy. Murray plays a little bigger than 6'8 when he's in there rebounding. Only wish he was around 6'10. That would open up a world of possibilities for this team.
I'm of the mindset that Murray will be whatever Mike Brown asks him to be. He'll work on it over the summer and be that guy. Murray plays a little bigger than 6'8 when he's in there rebounding. Only wish he was around 6'10. That would open up a world of possibilities for this team.
I'm starting to think we should...
That gives us the following roster going into the 2023-24 season:
PG - Fox / Mitchell / Dellavedova
SG - Huerter / Monk / Dozier
SF - Murray / Edwards
PF - Barnes / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Plumlee / Len
2023 Picks - #24 / #38 / #54
Obviously, it's essentially the same roster as this past season, but you'd hope you'd see some progression based on the young guys continuing to improve, an upgrade at backup C, team continuity & chemistry continuing to grow, defensive rotations become 2nd nature, potentially one of the 2023 picks being an immediate contributor, etc.
Once we get to the 2024 offseason, we hopefully have a better understanding of what Murray is & can become. Is he a fringe star already? Is he on the rise to becoming a star? Is he looking like a finished product/role player?
However, regardless of how Murray looks, we can still look at addressing our allusive PF with size/length who is a great defender, solid shotblocker, solid rebounder, and good shooter. Including the cap holds from Sabonis ($31,050,000), Monk ($12,929, 579), and Edwards ($2,409,870), we'd have ~$10.9 mil in cap space with the following players under contract:
However, Holmes would now be an expiring and should be much, much easier to dump in a trade (maybe a 2nd or two at the most). If we do that, it brings our cap space to ~$22.8 mil. If we trade Mitchell for a future 1st (to maintain an asset) & cap space, that brings our cap space to ~$28.2 mil.
With that cap space, you'd have the ability to potentially find that PF that would fit really well next to Sabonis:
You then could use your MLE on a rim protecting, floor spacing C (which I think would give the defenses a different look in more of a 5 out system with Fox attacking), and there seems to be quite a few of them that fit this description:
Going into the 2024-25 season, we could have a roster that looks like this...
PG - Fox / Monk
SG - Huerter
SF - Murray / Edwards
PF - Anunoby / #24
C - Sabonis / Hartenstein
...not to mention we'd still have all of our future 1st round picks (and an extra 1st from trading Mitchell if extra cap space was needed). Again, if Murray grows into that 3rd star, great! If not, you still have a plethora of assets to package in a trade to help elevate the team further.
- Punt on the 2023 FA class (we need a 3rd star to become a contender and there's not really one available this offseason that would be a good fit. Also, we ideally need a PF with size/length who is a great defender, solid shotblocker, solid rebounder, and good shooter. I don't really see that player available to sign in the 2023 FA class. PJ Washington seems to be the closest fit but I wouldn't consider him a great defender and rebounder)
- Avoid trading any of our young assets (Similar to #1 above. This team will need to have a 3rd star at some point to become a contender. Perhaps Murray develops into that player, but if he doesn't you'll need all of the assets you can, including Murray, to land one in a trade that will fit with Fox & Sabonis)
- Resign Barnes & Lyles to bloated 1+1 contracts (I'd like to roll over our cap space to the following offseason as there seems to be much better options that would be great fits with our core long term in the 2024 FA class. In the meantime, Barnes & Lyles give us continuity and help prevent this team from taking a step back next season)
- Sign a better backup C, like Plumlee, to a 1+1 deal (Similar to #3 above, I'd like to roll over our cap space to the following offseason but this should also help strengthen our team as I think we all recognize an upgrade at backup C would be helpful)
- Avoid going over the luxury tax line (I'd like to have the full MLE to use during the 2024 offseason and going over the luxury tax this offseason prevents that)
- Resign Dellavedova & Len to minimum deals (I like Delly's veteran presence & leadership. Seems like a good fit with the young guys. Len seems like a good culture fit too and is a solid 3rd C to have)
- Draft BPA at #24, #38, & #54 (Haven't been following the draft as much this year since we've made the playoffs but ideally we'd be targeting wings & forwards)
That gives us the following roster going into the 2023-24 season:
PG - Fox / Mitchell / Dellavedova
SG - Huerter / Monk / Dozier
SF - Murray / Edwards
PF - Barnes / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Plumlee / Len
2023 Picks - #24 / #38 / #54
Obviously, it's essentially the same roster as this past season, but you'd hope you'd see some progression based on the young guys continuing to improve, an upgrade at backup C, team continuity & chemistry continuing to grow, defensive rotations become 2nd nature, potentially one of the 2023 picks being an immediate contributor, etc.
Once we get to the 2024 offseason, we hopefully have a better understanding of what Murray is & can become. Is he a fringe star already? Is he on the rise to becoming a star? Is he looking like a finished product/role player?
- If he's a fringe star already, great! I'd be open to trading our young assets for better fitting, complementary pieces and commit to a Fox-Murray-Sabonis core going forward
- If he's progressing but still not quite a star, I'd likely hold onto our assets & future picks for at least another season and see how Murray looks in year 3.
- If he doesn't really improve all that much and looks like he's just going to be a productive role player, perhaps we consider moving our young assets (Murray included) to bring in a 3rd star, and since our 2024 1st would have likely conveyed to ATL by this time, we'd have all of our future 1st round picks available to trade. Now the trade doesn't necessarily have to be in the 2024 offseason, but the less year's remaining on the rookie contracts for Murray, Mitchell, and #24, the less value they'll likely have to opposing teams
However, regardless of how Murray looks, we can still look at addressing our allusive PF with size/length who is a great defender, solid shotblocker, solid rebounder, and good shooter. Including the cap holds from Sabonis ($31,050,000), Monk ($12,929, 579), and Edwards ($2,409,870), we'd have ~$10.9 mil in cap space with the following players under contract:
- Fox
- Mitchell
- Huerter
- Monk (Cap Hold)
- Edwards (Cap Hold)
- Murray
- Sabonis (Cap Hold)
- Holmes
- #24
However, Holmes would now be an expiring and should be much, much easier to dump in a trade (maybe a 2nd or two at the most). If we do that, it brings our cap space to ~$22.8 mil. If we trade Mitchell for a future 1st (to maintain an asset) & cap space, that brings our cap space to ~$28.2 mil.
With that cap space, you'd have the ability to potentially find that PF that would fit really well next to Sabonis:
- Aleksej Pokusveski
- Jaden McDaniels
- Jalen Smith
- Jarred Vanderbilt (maybe he develops a reliable 3PT shot by this time)
- OG Anunoby
- Onyeka Okongwu (maybe he develops a reliable 3PT shot by this time)
- Patrick Williams
You then could use your MLE on a rim protecting, floor spacing C (which I think would give the defenses a different look in more of a 5 out system with Fox attacking), and there seems to be quite a few of them that fit this description:
- Bol Bol
- Isaiah Hartenstein
- Mo Bamba
- Zach Collins
Going into the 2024-25 season, we could have a roster that looks like this...
PG - Fox / Monk
SG - Huerter
SF - Murray / Edwards
PF - Anunoby / #24
C - Sabonis / Hartenstein
...not to mention we'd still have all of our future 1st round picks (and an extra 1st from trading Mitchell if extra cap space was needed). Again, if Murray grows into that 3rd star, great! If not, you still have a plethora of assets to package in a trade to help elevate the team further.
The third star is a hot topic on this board lately. I do wonder is the “need” for a third star because we don’t believe that Fox and Sabonis are big enough stars to carry the team? I’d argue none of the teams left in the playoffs have three stars, some of them barely have 2. I agree this team needs more production consistently outside of Fox and Sabonis. What does this person (Murray or someone else) need to bring to table? Is there a ppg target? Is it a shot creation thing? Defense? Playmaking?
Here’s a hypothetical: if Murray can be the player he was in game 6 consistently (but with closer to his usual shooting efficiency) is that the mark?
I’d also argue what the third star needs to look like depends on if we are able to retain Monk after next year
Here’s a hypothetical: if Murray can be the player he was in game 6 consistently (but with closer to his usual shooting efficiency) is that the mark?
I’d also argue what the third star needs to look like depends on if we are able to retain Monk after next year
You forgot Naz Reid, I think he fits what the Kings needed. He is tremendous on both end. He does everything but the two areas that the Kings need to address is block shots and rebounding and he will address both. Not only he does everything...he can dribble up the court, pass, shoot 3, dunk, block shots and rebound. When do you ever see a big man that can do all of that? Rarely. I can see him being the Draymond Green for the Kings and better. It'll be hard to get him away from Wolves but if the Kings offer him a starting spot and big $$, definitely can pry him away from the Wolves. You can start him at the Center position so he can help protect the paint that Sabonis and the team lack due to size and length against big guys in the league. You then move Sabonis to PF spot (which he has no problem when he was in Indiana), move Keegan to SF. Remove Barnes from the lineup. Reid is going to help the team tremendously...i mean how often you see player that can block Gianna shot? And how often do you see a big guy that can play all 5 positions? How often do you see him able to defend the pick n roll with that kind of length? I think he is a superstar in the making. Just look at this highlights:
I didn’t forget about him. I think he will command too much salary and could push us over the luxury tax line.
But yeah if you see him as a PF (instead of a C) who is a great PF defender then he is potentially a great fit. I’ve always thought he moved more like a C than a forward (and his combine athleticism times were pretty bad too) but perhaps I’m wrong. He looks pretty athletic in these clips.
But yeah if you see him as a PF (instead of a C) who is a great PF defender then he is potentially a great fit. I’ve always thought he moved more like a C than a forward (and his combine athleticism times were pretty bad too) but perhaps I’m wrong. He looks pretty athletic in these clips.
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Keegan looked good, but Siakam is an all star and close to franchise guy. Don't get too attached here. Obviously you don't want to cripple your franchise but personally, I think De'Aaron Fox is THAT good. Sabonis is THAT good. That's the thought process in my mind. Is Keegan franchise material? He could be, clearly not in the role of DHO guy but while there is something to be said about potential, there is also something to be said about guarantee. These same things were said about Hali and I think Hali has a much better shot at being the type of player in the modern league that leads a team. Monte set the table here. Now might come the follow through.
The only issue is if Murray doesn't find his footing as a 3rd guy, that value will go fast. Somewhat in the same way that Holmes went bye bye. I remember relentlessly arguing about him needing to be moved once Sabonis came aboard and got the "no, this is the best two C duo on the league". See, that isn't how this works. If Brown has a plan, and he might, then fine, but if Keegan comes in next year with the same role? His value (who knows what it even is to be honest) will go bye bye. He's not a 19 year old raw rookie.
I don’t think Monte will make a move involving Keegan unless it’s for a slam dunk get us to the championship type of guy. All the names I’m seeing right now, I just don’t know. It would be difficult dealing him and his 3 point shooting ability which is elite. I’d wait half a year to see how he progresses before pulling the trigger.
There is still upside to be tapped into with Keegan and our window is wide open for awhile. I could see our pick getting deal for an elite role player who is out there or Monte finding the next Lyles. I also believe Kessler Edwards is going to develop into an important stopper on this team. He’s not another Troy Williams. We have already seen Edwards stop a Devin Booker
Knowing Monte, he’s going to find a better version of Kessler Edwards in a low key deal or signing
There is still upside to be tapped into with Keegan and our window is wide open for awhile. I could see our pick getting deal for an elite role player who is out there or Monte finding the next Lyles. I also believe Kessler Edwards is going to develop into an important stopper on this team. He’s not another Troy Williams. We have already seen Edwards stop a Devin Booker
Knowing Monte, he’s going to find a better version of Kessler Edwards in a low key deal or signing
Here's what it is, and we saw it. The truth is that Sabonis is going to get you 16-20 ppg max. That's just who he is and that's more like a teams CP3 than a Shaq. Which he is. Fox literally had to break himself to get this team to where it got. That's just plain fact. Not saying Fox is MJ but it's very similar to his early years. Even MJ needed that next guy to run the offense and score as a franchise level player. Not all teams left have 3 stars but they have 3-4 guys that can get you 20 a night, or more, or two guys that can get you 25 a night. OR play great defense because they are built to play defense. The Kings look very much like a team that needs a 3rd weapon or a super solid 3rd and 4th ala the team that just sent the Kings fishing.
Part of that is personnel and part of it is style of play. I wonder how many other teams have 4 guys averaging 15 points per game or more? If Keegan averaged 17 a game next year and Barnes comes back and averages 10 instead of 15 does that change our equation?
Ultimately what I think you are asking for is 3 or 4 guys that can impose their will on a game when needed. We have seen Fox, Sabonis and Monk do that in games this season. Can Sabonis and Monk do it more consistently? Can Game 4 and 6 Keegan join the party?
Ultimately what I think you are asking for is 3 or 4 guys that can impose their will on a game when needed. We have seen Fox, Sabonis and Monk do that in games this season. Can Sabonis and Monk do it more consistently? Can Game 4 and 6 Keegan join the party?
This is partly why I'm thinking Monte needs to be aggressive now rather than later. Once you pay someone like that you better have those pieces in place around them. Look at Domas as the teams backbone, Fox as the engine, after that it's a question of who can get theirs. I think Domas being what he is gives Monte EVERYTHING in terms of options. The fact that Domas is what he is is a lot of the reason why someone like Vlade was so priceless during his years. You can almost put ANYONE next to them as long as that person has talent. It doesn't even matter what that talent is, if they have it at an elite level Domas will glue it together.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/free-agents-harrison-barnes-trey-163903979.html
This doesn't need to be overthought - bring every player back, and give them the chance to work together longer...that includes Davis, Len, Metu, Lyles, Barnes. Extend minutes and give players more chances to improve.....for some its offense, and others its defense.
Dozier has some promise....extend Sabonis, Monk if possible. . Sabonis is more of a Point C/PF than all others except maybe Jokic. Draft the best player available - possibly Center or PF. They're set on guards especially.
This doesn't need to be overthought - bring every player back, and give them the chance to work together longer...that includes Davis, Len, Metu, Lyles, Barnes. Extend minutes and give players more chances to improve.....for some its offense, and others its defense.
Dozier has some promise....extend Sabonis, Monk if possible. . Sabonis is more of a Point C/PF than all others except maybe Jokic. Draft the best player available - possibly Center or PF. They're set on guards especially.
This is another concern though. I brought it up during the season. The only semi-modern team that mirrors the Kings shot distribution is the mid 2000's Pistons. And it's not hard to see the difference between this Kings team and that team, lol. If the Kings can get to that level defensively then just ride the wave haha.
As for Monk. Monk isn't some new thing. He's ready now and developed. He was a great value and he and Fox obviously had synergy. Do I think counting on Monk as the missing thing should be the plan? Hell no. Nope. And for two reasons. He did about what you'd expect at his top end and more and that still got you bounced as a 3 seed. This is yet another reason why I think Monte needs to continue to be pedal to the metal BTW, Monk has one year left. One! Times not only ticking, but ticking big time with him. Gosh, it's funny how times change. I can recall being in the place of many posters now, arguing with posters like Brick for the same reasons many here are, and now realizing, they knew what they knew what they were talking about, haha. It's the repeated pain that shows you the way unfortunately. I think Monte knows what he's doing and regardless, he and Wes or whoever else has earned the choice.
As for Monk. Monk isn't some new thing. He's ready now and developed. He was a great value and he and Fox obviously had synergy. Do I think counting on Monk as the missing thing should be the plan? Hell no. Nope. And for two reasons. He did about what you'd expect at his top end and more and that still got you bounced as a 3 seed. This is yet another reason why I think Monte needs to continue to be pedal to the metal BTW, Monk has one year left. One! Times not only ticking, but ticking big time with him. Gosh, it's funny how times change. I can recall being in the place of many posters now, arguing with posters like Brick for the same reasons many here are, and now realizing, they knew what they knew what they were talking about, haha. It's the repeated pain that shows you the way unfortunately. I think Monte knows what he's doing and regardless, he and Wes or whoever else has earned the choice.
As far as I'm concerned Fox, Sabonis, Keegan and Monk are untouchable at this point, they are my core.
Considering that Minnesota already has $77 mil (2023) and then $94 mil (2024) committed to the KAT and Gobert duo, I think there is a good chance we could pry him away from Minnesota with a starting PF/C spot and starter money (i.e. $56 mil/4 year contract. I find it hard to believe that Minnesota would pony up $90 mil (2023) and then $107 mil (2024) to the PF and C spot when they are going to need to max Anthony Edwards and sign Jaden McDaniels next year too.
Reid helps address our defensive issue more than HB, so I think he fits in like a glove next to Sabonis and Keegan. I think Reid can slide into the 4 and Sabonis can stay at the 5. Re-sign Lyles and bring in Sasha.
PF: Naz Reid / Sasha
SF: Keegan / Edwards / 1st round pick
C: Sabonis / Lyles / Queta
SF: Huerter / Monk
PG: Fox / Mitchell
IMHO, I think this would be a well rounded team that could contend for a title in a year or two.
Considering that Minnesota already has $77 mil (2023) and then $94 mil (2024) committed to the KAT and Gobert duo, I think there is a good chance we could pry him away from Minnesota with a starting PF/C spot and starter money (i.e. $56 mil/4 year contract. I find it hard to believe that Minnesota would pony up $90 mil (2023) and then $107 mil (2024) to the PF and C spot when they are going to need to max Anthony Edwards and sign Jaden McDaniels next year too.
Reid helps address our defensive issue more than HB, so I think he fits in like a glove next to Sabonis and Keegan. I think Reid can slide into the 4 and Sabonis can stay at the 5. Re-sign Lyles and bring in Sasha.
PF: Naz Reid / Sasha
SF: Keegan / Edwards / 1st round pick
C: Sabonis / Lyles / Queta
SF: Huerter / Monk
PG: Fox / Mitchell
IMHO, I think this would be a well rounded team that could contend for a title in a year or two.
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