What has to happen to move forward next year

[funkykingston]

Lyles is an intriguing fit as our starting PF next year (with Barnes coming off the bench).

For starters, Lyles has a massive size advantage over Barnes:

• 9.25" hand length (0.25" more than Barnes)
• 10.25" hand width (1.75" more than Barnes)
• 6'9" w/o shoes (2" more than Barnes)
• 9'0" standing reach (6.5" more than Barnes)
• 7'1.5" wingspan (2.25" more than Barnes)
• 241.2 lbs (13.4 lbs more than Barnes)

I cited earlier that some of the improvement areas we need to focus on is adding another solid rebounder to the starting lineup (as Huerter, Murray, & Barnes are all below average to average rebounders) and we'd need a PF who can help us protect the rim a bit more than someone like Barnes (Murray is pretty good in this department for a SF already).

• Lyles averages 8.7 REB per 36 min (Barnes averages 4.9 REB per 36 min)
• Lyles averages 0.9 BLK per 36 min (Barnes averages 0.1 BLK per 36 min)

His size, rebounding, and rim protection seem to help address a lot of the issues we're all pointing out, but will the offense drop off a cliff if Lyles replaces Barnes in the starting lineup?

• Barnes averages 16.6 PTS per 36 min on .632 TS% while Lyles averages 16.2 PTS per 36 min on .607 TS% (not a huge difference in volume and efficiency)
• Barnes averages 4.8 3PA per 36 min on .374 3P% while Lyles averages 6.9 3PA per 36 min on .363 3P% (not a big difference in efficiency but Lyles takes almost 1.5X the amount of 3s per minute. I think spacing would at least be comparable)
• Barnes shoots .395 from the 3PT Corner while Lyles shoots .435 from the 3PT Corner (with Huerter and Murray performing the majority of the DHOs at the top of the key, I think having a better 3PT Corner shooter in this position is important).
• Barnes averages 1.7 AST per 36 min while Lyles averages 1.9 AST per 36 min (we shouldn't see a big breakdown in ball movement)
• Barnes has a .171 USG% while Lyles has a .181 USG%

I think we'd all agree that Barnes is a better scorer, gets to the FT line a bit more, can iso a bit, etc. which I think would be pretty effective in our bench unit when we need some scoring help. Lyles' size, length, defense, rebounding, and shooting seems like a good/better fit in the starting lineup on paper. You also have the fact that at the start of next season, Lyles will be 27 and Barnes will be 31.

If the team is going to start Lyles (and I'm not against that necessarily) I don't see why you'd re-sign Barnes at all. Somewhere between $17-21 million per year for a 31 year old backup forward not only doesn't make sense for the Kings, it doesn't make sense for HB.

If the Kings go that direction, I think you let HB walk and hopefully sign Vezenkov to provide scoring punch off the bench.

Sabonis/FA center
Lyles/Vezenkov
Murray/Edwards
Huerter/Monk
Fox/Mitchell

gives you a solid 10 man rotation, depending on who they can bring in to back up Domas.

Then the decisions are whether to re-sign TD, whether to bring back any of Metu, Len, or Queta, who the third string PG will be, and what to do in the draft.

I think you need some additional wings for sure. All season long I'd hoped Brown would go small with Lyles at C and that's a luxury he provides that Barnes doesn't. As a starter, Trey will likely struggle to guard smaller 4's, but he can always slide to C to space the floor.

 

[joemama]

I think we need to let HB go and improve our Frontline in the process.

This. If he is paid that much he needs to produce in a playoff series.

Offer money to Jerami Grant. Prob not enough but that is the direction we need to go.

Length. Rebounding. Athleticism

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I mean, too bad. He's the best the Kings are going to get. He's obviously not Giannis/Jokic/Steph/Embiid tier, but he's right there in that next grouping. Guys capable of putting up an All-NBA season just don't walk through the door in Sacramento very often.

It was an excellent first step this season with Fox/Domas/Brown as the head of the team. Now it's on Monte to fill the gaps and figure out how you take this core to the next level.

It really is too bad. He was able to lead the league in rebounds this season, only to be dominated on the glass through this series. I can understand his points and assists being down, but the rebounds he continued to give up to Looney was the X factor in this series. That just can't happen and is a big part of the reason that Brown went to Lyles in game 6, which worked well. He'd never do it, but they probably would have had a better chance in game 7, had Lyles played most of the minutes at 5. Oh well, I guess?

 

[The_Jamal]

It really is too bad.


It really is too bad. He was able to the league in rebounds this season, only to be dominated on the glass through this series. I can understand his points and assists being down, but the rebounds he continued to give up to Looney was the X factor in this series. That just can't happen and is a big part of the reason that Brown went to Lyles in game 6, which worked well. He'd never do it, but they probably would have had a better chance in game 7, had Lyles played most of the minutes at 5. Oh well, I guess?

You're just being disingenuous at this point, so I'll end it with this. Domas's play was a reason we lost this series, it wasn't THE main reason we lost. Him along with Huerter/HB and Brown getting destroyed by Kerr all had a fairly equal share of why we lost. And you're conveniently ignoring that Domas being excellent defensively and on the offensive glass is a big reason we had a game 7 in the first place. Doesn't fit your little narrative now does it though?

 

[sactowndog]

He has hit the mid range a good amount this season, the difference was he would pass on them because he knew his shooters would knock down threes regularly and efficiently. He chose the 3>2. Problem was, none of our usual shooters running off his screens hit anything besides Keegan, and he only hit them for a few games.

Domas definitely needs to become a better/more regular midrange shooter next season, but I think his Playoff struggles are being vastly overstated. Don’t forget, Webber had an even slightly worse first Playoff series with Sacramento and he ended up improving a lot.

yeah I’m not saying he can’t improve just that he must improve so teams can’t run that drop to take away the back cut. We shall see what happens.

 

[SLAB]

Throw a big (not a max) number at Kuzma.

 

[iowamcnabb]

yeah I’m not saying he can’t improve just that he must improve so teams can’t run that drop to take away the back cut. We shall see what happens.

they might still run it because the elbow jumper is a lower percentage shot than the back cut or bully ball. Still, he will have to take them when open

 

[Joshoua]

I mean, too bad. He's the best the Kings are going to get. He's obviously not Giannis/Jokic/Steph/Embiid tier, but he's right there in that next grouping. Guys capable of putting up an All-NBA season just don't walk through the door in Sacramento very often.

It was an excellent first step this season with Fox/Domas/Brown as the head of the team. Now it's on Monte to fill the gaps and figure out how you take this core to the next level.

I think we can still be an elite contender without a giannis/Curry/Jokic it will all depend on Murray’s development. If Murray becomes a 20/8 guy with solid defense than we’re good if Sabonis adds a jumper to 18feet we’re Golden

lol don’t try sneaking in crybaby Embiid in that group he’s not that guy

 

[Albatros]

Despite everything Barnes was 2 inches away from winning us the series.

Now that stings.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Despite everything Barnes was 2 inches away from winning us the series.

Now that stings.

It's pretty easy to see it the other way: we had an open shot, in the air, that was 2 inches going in, and had it gone in - and all other things being equal - we would have taken out the defending champs in 6 games.

That feels pretty good, really.

 

[TaxMan]

If the team is going to start Lyles (and I'm not against that necessarily) I don't see why you'd re-sign Barnes at all. Somewhere between $17-21 million per year for a 31 year old backup forward not only doesn't make sense for the Kings, it doesn't make sense for HB.

If the Kings go that direction, I think you let HB walk and hopefully sign Vezenkov to provide scoring punch off the bench.

Sabonis/FA center
Lyles/Vezenkov
Murray/Edwards
Huerter/Monk
Fox/Mitchell

gives you a solid 10 man rotation, depending on who they can bring in to back up Domas.

Then the decisions are whether to re-sign TD, whether to bring back any of Metu, Len, or Queta, who the third string PG will be, and what to do in the draft.

I think you need some additional wings for sure. All season long I'd hoped Brown would go small with Lyles at C and that's a luxury he provides that Barnes doesn't. As a starter, Trey will likely struggle to guard smaller 4's, but he can always slide to C to space the floor.

Unfortunately for Barnes, it's not just this season that he disappeared in the playoffs. He just hasn't been a good player when the spotlight shines brightest. I would love to have him back on a reasonable contract, but hoping he transitions onto the bench and we get a more versatile defensive player in the starting lineup next to Murray and Domas. I love Lyles, but I wouldn't be pumped if he's slotted in as our starting PF next year.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Oh my Barnes was bad. He's the #1 guy I'm looking at now that should have been a difference maker and was a main factor why we lost this series.

Lyles: +16.9 On/Off (holy crap)
Barnes: -28.3 On/Off (Even bigger holy crap. Game 7 stuff isn't updated yet, but I'm almost wondering if this is a mistake somehow.)

While I admit that HB wasn't good, I'm looking more at Kevin Huerter. He was awful too. But I expected more from him than HB. Especially since he'd shown more during his previous playoff experience for ATL.

However he looked like he'd never played on the stage before.

 

[nikefutbolero]

Without a broken hand, bruised sternum, and possible concussion/eye damage/irritation from the elbow, maybe he'll return back to form next year? Just a thought.

If hes a liability due to injury he shouldnt play. No excuses.

 

[hrdboild]

If hes a liability due to injury he shouldnt play. No excuses.

This is a ridiculous standard. We would have been without Fox and Sabonis for half this series if we followed that. They gutted it out because it was the franchise's first playoff series in 17 years.

 

[hrdboild]

Throw a big (not a max) number at Kuzma.

No!!! The guy is a human traffic cone on defense.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Watch the Kings the whole season KOC. Was Domas ever this bad in a 7 game stretch? No.

Health and possibly his worst match-up in terms of a team designed to slow him down and that's been slowing down elite bigs for a decade. I'll trust the All-NBA season was more real than what we saw in this playoff series.

Maybe that changes next year if he's healthy in the playoffs and continues to struggle. But to put that on him now... silly and impatient.

People are WAY overreacting to Domas. Because they were spoiled by a player that played through injury rather than pack it in (like so many others would have done).

Domas couldn't counter the way the Warriors defended him due to the injury to his right hand. While we all know he is left-hand dominant, he is very capable of finishing with his right, but that part of his game was extremely limited and it showed during this series.

That, and I truly believe his sternum and body was bothering him more than we know. Even his ability to rebound was affected, which I believe proves how limiting the injury toll was.

IMO, a remotely healthy Domas would have been able to really hurt the Warriors defensive scheme. He was just limited as injuries took their toll and his confidence also became a factor. But when you can't do the things you normally can, who can blame him?

I mean, Domas proved to be a capable shooter over the course of the season. We ALL saw him do it over 82. He even hit 31-83 three pointers.

The dude was just playing at like 2/3rds himself.

Can he improve in that area? Absolutely. And I'd be surprised if he doesn't work hard at it this offseason.

Same goes for Swipa. IMO the key to the offseason is how much our two stars recognize what they need to do to improve and how hard they decide to work at it. How bad do they want it? That's what separates the elite from the great.

 

[Joshoua]

Throw a big (not a max) number at Kuzma.

Kuzma hurts Murray’s development we have our 1-3 options we’re set there and Kuzma thinks he’s a top 3 option when he’s not. Guys like Grant and Lavine fit that mold too we need 3D wings that allow us to go small preferably we can get a 3D SF that’s 6’7-6’9

 

[hrdboild]

Kuzma hurts Murray’s development we have our 1-3 options we’re set there and Kuzma thinks he’s a top 3 option when he’s not. Guys like Grant and Lavine fit that mold too we need 3D wings that allow us to go small preferably we can get a 3D SF that’s 6’7-6’9

Exactly. We have plenty of scorers. All we need are lunch pail guys who excel in their roles defensively and otherwise stay out of the way.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Kuzma hurts Murray’s development we have our 1-3 options we’re set there and Kuzma thinks he’s a top 3 option when he’s not. Guys like Grant and Lavine fit that mold too we need 3D wings that allow us to go small preferably we can get a 3D SF that’s 6’7-6’9

Well if you are letting Barnes walk for a three and D role player type, you have to be comfortable losing the post game and passing he’d provide in a pinch as a fallback to Fox and Sabonis. But maybe you figure a consistent Monk is that guy if you can count on him when you need him (not in terms of posting up, of course, but emergency playmaking)

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

You're just being disingenuous at this point, so I'll end it with this. Domas's play was a reason we lost this series, it wasn't THE main reason we lost. Him along with Huerter/HB and Brown getting destroyed by Kerr all had a fairly equal share of why we lost. And you're conveniently ignoring that Domas being excellent defensively and on the offensive glass is a big reason we had a game 7 in the first place. Doesn't fit your little narrative now does it though?

You're over emotional and I understand that, after an awful 2nd half in a game 7 loss. You're right though, the team simply wasn't good enough as a whole, but we do need an All Star player to be more productive in his matchup next time around. I like Sabonis as a player and hope that happens, but if it doesn't... and with how much this team leans on him, we'll be in trouble again in a long series.

 

[Showtime]

What has to happen to reach deeper in playoffs:
Upgrade 2/3. This can be addition by subtraction. Letting HB walk and having Keegs improving are solid options at the forward spot. I'm open to a package of Kevin and fillers to get a better 2 guard option. I understand players struggling but to have a guy take 7 dumps in a row in the playoffs is not acceptable for a team that wants to compete for a chip.

Figure out the frontline. Warriors exposed a ton of problems. Most of them can be fixed by Domas improving his game in the offseason and the coach willing to play lineups that are effective.

Len is great for the low expectations of what he does but if Domas and Len play together then that will slow the game down more to a halfcourt style which I don't think coach wants to do.

 

[nikefutbolero]

This is a ridiculous standard. We would have been without Fox and Sabonis for half this series if we followed that. They gutted it out because it was the franchise's first playoff series in 17 years.

They obviously played because they felt they weren't liabilities, so we shouldn't use injuries as an excuse.

 

[LPKingsFan]

They obviously played because they felt they weren't liabilities, so we shouldn't use injuries as an excuse.

You can not be a liability and be limited from playing your best at the same time, no?

 

[hrdboild]

They obviously played because they felt they weren't liabilities, so we shouldn't use injuries as an excuse.

No, they played because they aren't quitters. The other option was to concede the series.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

People are WAY overreacting to Domas. Because they were spoiled by a player that played through injury rather than pack it in (like so many others would have done).

Domas couldn't counter the way the Warriors defended him due to the injury to his right hand. While we all know he is left-hand dominant, he is very capable of finishing with his right, but that part of his game was extremely limited and it showed during this series.

That, and I truly believe his sternum and body was bothering him more than we know. Even his ability to rebound was affected, which I believe proves how limiting the injury toll was.

IMO, a remotely healthy Domas would have been able to really hurt the Warriors defensive scheme. He was just limited as injuries took their toll and his confidence also became a factor. But when you can't do the things you normally can, who can blame him?

I mean, Domas proved to be a capable shooter over the course of the season. We ALL saw him do it over 82. He even hit 31-83 three pointers.

The dude was just playing at like 2/3rds himself.

Can he improve in that area? Absolutely. And I'd be surprised if he doesn't work hard at it this offseason.

Same goes for Swipa. IMO the key to the offseason is how much our two stars recognize what they need to do to improve and how hard they decide to work at it. How bad do they want it? That's what separates the elite from the great.

I am 100% sure of this and I am just steaming about it. I think I went to sleep at peace and then dray's bullpoop this morning rubbed salt in the wound. He tried to take him out of the series through injury, and somehow Domas was the villain. F that. Just F that.

I'll never get over it unless we win a title. 2002 level hatred for Dray.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I am 100% sure of this and I am just steaming about it. I think I went to sleep at peace and then dray's bullpoop this morning rubbed salt in the wound. He tried to take him out of the series through injury, and somehow Domas was the villain. F that. Just F that.

I'll never get over it unless we win a title. 2002 level hatred for Dray.

Co-sign 100%.

The level of treachery and classlessness by Draymond seems to know no bounds. Domas was CLARLY not himself due to the injury - but made ZERO excuses.

 

[Joshoua]

Well if you are letting Barnes walk for a three and D role player type, you have to be comfortable losing the post game and passing he’d provide in a pinch as a fallback to Fox and Sabonis. But maybe you figure a consistent Monk is that guy if you can count on him when you need him (not in terms of posting up, of course, but emergency playmaking)

how much are we losing from a guy who only was able to get 15mpg in must win games we’ll be overpaying for mediocre play just unreasonable

 

[hrdboild]

Well if you are letting Barnes walk for a three and D role player type, you have to be comfortable losing the post game and passing he’d provide in a pinch as a fallback to Fox and Sabonis. But maybe you figure a consistent Monk is that guy if you can count on him when you need him (not in terms of posting up, of course, but emergency playmaking)

I think we probably need 2 players: a post-defender and rebounder who can also give us an interior target to throw the ball to when the outside shots aren't falling and a 3 and D wing who can match up against taller players that just isolate and shoot over our guards but are too quick for Murray to stay in front of. I like Onyeka Okongwu for the first role if we can sign him out of Atlanta and Matisse Thybulle for the second role and we hope that his improved outside shooting this season continues.

 

[sactowndog]

Well if you are letting Barnes walk for a three and D role player type, you have to be comfortable losing the post game and passing he’d provide in a pinch as a fallback to Fox and Sabonis. But maybe you figure a consistent Monk is that guy if you can count on him when you need him (not in terms of posting up, of course, but emergency playmaking)

Or you expect Murray to step up into that role

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think we probably need 2 players: a post-defender and rebounder who can also give us an interior target to throw the ball to when the outside shots aren't falling and a 3 and D wing who can match up against taller players that just isolate and shoot over our guards but are too quick for Murray to stay in front of. I like Onyeka Okongwu for the first role if we can sign him out of Atlanta and Matisse Thybulle for the second role and we hope that his improved outside shooting this season continues.

Don't know about the targets but those are tops on my wishlist.

Incidentally we don't have to get all crazy to get those spots filled. It probably means letting a cult level fan fave go but nothing more. You finish the roster rebalancing and backfill the obvious weaknesses over the next 2 seasons then if necessary you try to upgrade to a star at a third position.

I'm really curious if we're able to get anything out of Queta next year or if that experiment has come to an end.