What has to happen to move forward next year

[ShastaKingsFan]

Watch the Kings the whole season KOC. Was Domas ever this bad in a 7 game stretch? No.

That's the point. Nobody plays a 7 game series against one team during the season. The playoffs reveal strengths and weaknesses, against winning teams. Sabonis has some work to do in order to be leading player performer, which is probably part of the reason that Indiana was interested in a change

 

[hrdboild]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652798409794019328

I think this quote has been posted four times now and it's just an awful takeaway from what we saw this series. Looney was allowed to climb his back to grab rebounds. He got legit punched in the face multiple times and stomped while he was on the ground and most of those fouls went uncalled. Does he need an enforcer? How about a damn official just does their job? Can we get that? Sabonis is being looked at like he gave up or something. All year we've been saying that the offense runs through Sabonis. Golden State intentionally went out there looking to cut the head off the snake and the league is such a joke they not only let it happen, they cheered them on the whole time. I like to imagine it was Steph Curry who received all this punishment instead. Think the reactions would be a little different?

 

[The_Jamal]

That's the point. Nobody plays a 7 game series against one team during the season. The playoffs reveal strengths and weaknesses, against winning teams. Sabonis has some work to do in order to be leading player performer, which is probably part of the reason that Indiana was interested in a change

Ugh.

No. Let's see Sabonis healthy in a playoff series and not facing the worst possibly match-up for an elite big in the Warriors. They've been erasing high USG bigs for a decade now. Also, how about the refs actually call him fairly too? That too much to ask? Why shoultd we just accept that Domas has to play through getting beat up on a nightly basis? Does any other star player have to just accept that fate?

And honestly, if HB and Huerter make like 3 more wide open 3's in the entire series, we probably are heading into round 2 vs the Lakers. Part of what makes Domas, Domas was the elite shooters he set up all season. That basically disappeared all series outside of Keegan.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Yeh the warriors tried to take away two strengths (Domas bully ball and dho). They had some luck with that. Having said that, Domas can and did hit some 15 footers in this series. That’s just not considered a great shot anymore so I don’t know how much we will see him mix it in next year

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What was Kevin's final 3pt % this series? Feels like if he even hit 25% we close this out in 5. But certainly 30-33% would have given us some comfortable wins and still been a huge drop from his regular season.

And yeah, I don't watch the Nuggets but I am sure Jokic doesn't get abused like Domas. Like what in the hell has he done to get murdered all season like this and then especially in this series.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Ugh.

No. Let's see Sabonis healthy in a playoff series and not facing the worst possibly match-up for an elite big in the Warriors. They've been erasing high USG bigs for a decade now. Also, how about the refs actually call him fairly too? That too much to ask? Why shoultd we just accept that Domas has to play through getting beat up on a nightly basis? Does any other star player have to just accept that fate?

And honestly, if HB and Huerter make like 3 more wide open 3's in the entire series, we probably are heading into round 2 vs the Lakers. Part of what makes Domas, Domas was the elite shooters he set up all season. That basically disappeared all series outside of Keegan.

You really think that Looney and this Warriors roster is the toughest matchup at the 5 in the league? He's definitely solid, but I wouldn't give him that title.

I've had concerns all season, because Sabonis has struggled against full sized quality 5's across the league. Even a non top 10 center like Nurkic is a tough matchup for him

 

[The_Jamal]

You really think that Looney and this Warriors roster is the toughest matchup at the 5 in the league? He's definitely solid, but I wouldn't give him that title.

I've had concerns all season, because Sabonis has struggled against full sized quality 5's across the league. Even a non top 10 center like Nurkic is a tough matchup for him

Looney and Dray, yes. Lost in the Steph/Klay shooting explosions of the last decade is that basically every single one of their title teams was an elite defense... anchored by Dray being able to erase guys 1-5.

31-10-5 vs the Nuggets (Jokic) (In one game)

22-12-3.8 vs the Wolves this season (Rudy/KAT)

19-9.5-7.5 vs the Sixers this season

23-14.5-11 vs the Bucks this season

21.3-16.7-6 vs the Warriors this regular season

13-12-8 vs the Grizzlies this season

19.7-14.3-8.3 vs the Lakers this season

19.5-8.8-6.0 vs the Clippers this season

17-11.5-9 vs the Celtics this season


So wtf are you talking about? He didn't struggle at ALL vs elite defensive match-ups in the regular season.

This is just heat of the moment "analysis" from an injured Domas vs the one of the most experienced playoff teams of all-time that had an excellent game-plan to take him out of the series.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Looney and Dray, yes. Lost in the Steph/Klay shooting explosions of the last decade is that basically every single one of their title teams was an elite defense... anchored by Dray being able to erase guys 1-5.

31-10-5 vs the Nuggets (Jokic) (In one game)

22-12-3.8 vs the Wolves this season (Rudy/KAT)

19-9.5-7.5 vs the Sixers this season

23-14.5-11 vs the Bucks this season

21.3-16.7-6 vs the Warriors this regular season

13-12-8 vs the Grizzlies this season

19.7-14.3-8.3 vs the Lakers this season

19.5-8.8-6.0 vs the Clippers this season

17-11.5-9 vs the Celtics this season


So wtf are you talking about? He didn't struggle at ALL vs elite defensive match-ups in the regular season.

This is just heat of the moment "analysis" from an injured Domas vs the one of the most experienced playoff teams of all-time that had an excellent game-plan to take him out of the series.

It's a lot deeper than season stats and I think this series revealed some of that, but its Ok, you consider him to be a lot more valuable player than I do. I don't consider him a franchise type player and I don't believe the rest of the league does either, despite being an All Star and probably voted into 3rd team All NBA. He's certainly the best big we've had in a while.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

yeah this take isn’t going to be popular but Domas got exposed in this series with the entire NBA watching ala Ben Simmons. If he can’t hit those shots the entire NBA is going to dare him to shoot. He has to be able to prove he can shoot effectively or the DHO offense is going to struggle.

He has hit the mid range a good amount this season, the difference was he would pass on them because he knew his shooters would knock down threes regularly and efficiently. He chose the 3>2. Problem was, none of our usual shooters running off his screens hit anything besides Keegan, and he only hit them for a few games.

Domas definitely needs to become a better/more regular midrange shooter next season, but I think his Playoff struggles are being vastly overstated. Don’t forget, Webber had an even slightly worse first Playoff series with Sacramento and he ended up improving a lot.

 

[SacTownKid]

It's a lot deeper than season stats and I think this series revealed some of that, but its Ok, you consider him to be a lot more valuable player than I do. I don't consider him a franchise type player and I don't believe the rest of the league does either, despite being an All Star and probably voted into 3rd team All NBA. He's certainly the best big we've had in a while.

Yeah, as of now Domas isn't a true franchise guy for sure but his impact is not too far off actually because if you look at the top scorers the ones that don't make plays or run their teams offense have impact questions. Domas was 48th in scoring during the regular season and 44th in the playoffs. What he is though is basically the teams glue as a point C. I think he falls somewhere in between Webber and Brad Miller while being closer to Brad but much better in the post. That said, Domas being the PG isn't a bad thing. It obviously frees up De'Aaron to do a lot more than he'd normally be allowed to and gives Monte a ton of options as to who he puts next to Fox and Domas. Domas will make it work pretty much no matter who it is because his game is so balanced, efficient, and team focused. The issue to watch out for IMO is still Brown being forced to stagger them both. That's not a long term solution. It won't work against the juggernauts they'll have to topple to go anywhere and Monte got a taste of it already.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

It's a lot deeper than season stats and I think this series revealed some of that, but its Ok, you consider him to be a lot more valuable player than I do. I don't consider him a franchise type player and I don't believe the rest of the league does either, despite being an All Star and probably voted into 3rd team All NBA. He's certainly the best big we've had in a while.

He’s not a franchise guy, but Fox is. 27/7/5 vs the defending champs who threw everything at him in his first ever Playoff series. And 3/7 games played with a broken finger. Sabonis is a star building block. We’ve got our two stars which should make us a regular Playoff team. We need a third star or two or three upgrades at starter to reach contender status imo. Keegan could either become that third star or, given natural progression, will become one of the 2-3 required better starters.

 

[Albatros]

We still have to improve. A lot of teams weren't healthy this year. You'd expect them to revert to type.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Yeah, as of now Domas isn't a true franchise guy for sure but his impact is not too far off actually because if you look at the top scorers the ones that don't make plays or run their teams offense have impact questions. Domas was 48th in scoring during the regular season and 44th in the playoffs. What he is though is basically the teams glue as a point C. I think he falls somewhere in between Webber and Brad Miller while being closer to Brad but much better in the post. That said, Domas being the PG isn't a bad thing. It obviously frees up De'Aaron to do a lot more than he'd normally be allowed to and gives Monte a ton of options as to who he puts next to Fox and Domas. Domas will make it work pretty much no matter who it is because his game is so balanced, efficient, and team focused. The issue to watch out for IMO is still Brown being forced to stagger them both. That's not a long term solution. It won't work against the juggernauts they'll have to topple to go anywhere and Monte got a taste of it already.

Brad Miller would have feasted in the mid range against Looney. Trying to drive through him to the rim, plays right into his strength as a good straight up defender.

I feel that Sabonis needs to expand his game to be more flexible against different matchups, in order for this team to be a real contender. As well as not melting as a rebounder in the playoffs. I really think that matchup lost this series.

 

[KF8]

I feel like we're being too harsh of Sabonis. Keep in mind the guy is still 26 years old and he still has room for improvement. This is his first playoff series where he's one of the main guys as an all-star and entering his prime and going against well tested elite defenders in draymond and looney. Sure he has some playoff experience in Indiana but that was during his 2nd and 3rd year where he was fairly inexperienced.

 

[The Effort Police]

We still have to improve. A lot of teams weren't healthy this year. You'd expect them to revert to type.

Why? That is simply the reality for the aging Warriors, Load Management Central, The Stoned Twig and Human Blimp combo, Street Clothes and OldBron, etc.

The old and/or breaking down teams getting injured over the comparatively youthful Kings isn't some miracle event.

 

[The Effort Police]

If we're seriously considering a shot-blocking/physical/enforcer C as a Sabonis partner while he slides over to the PF for more than a nanosecond, then we might as well pack it up now.

This is just something we have to eat the disadvantage on and mitigate it in other ways.

 

[Albatros]

Why? That is simply the reality for the aging Warriors, Load Management Central, The Stoned Twig and Human Blimp combo, Street Clothes and OldBron, etc.

The old and/or breaking down teams getting injured over the comparatively youthful Kings isn't some miracle event.

Kinda how the warriors reverted to type in this series.

We need to keep being aggressive is all I mean. Unless you've got a generational talent you can't sit on your hands in this league.

 

[reptilexcq2]

What about Christian Woods? He can shoot 3 just as well as Barnes and has a post up game. But at least he can be a better rebounder and block shots which Barnes lack and which the Kings need.

 

[KF8]

What about Christian Woods? He can shoot 3 just as well as Barnes and has a post up game. But at least he can be a better rebounder and block shots which Barnes lack and which the Kings need.

He's a bad defender from what I'm hearing.

 

[Geoff]

Not sure how realistic some of these guys are, but looking at the 2023 free agents some of these guys could help the Kings tremendously.

Brook lopez
Naz Reid
Jerami Grant
Kyle Kuzma
Josh Hart
Kelly Oubre
Dillion Brooks
Jakob Poeltl
Mason Plumlee
Grant Williams
Joe Ingles
Dennis Schroder

Dillion Brooks shouldn't even be considered.

Josh Hart would be the top option in that list for me, but he wouldn't be cheap.

 

[Joshoua]

He's a bad defender from what I'm hearing.

man’s doesn’t pass for crap dudes the definition of a black hole and hell no to Grant as well we don’t name first players

 

[twslam07]

I posted this in the game 5 thread and still stand by it (although I don't think any of this has to happen next year. We just need to be building towards this direction/roster):

1. Good defenders & shooters at SG, SF, & PF. Huerter, Murray, & Barnes have the shooting part but are all below average to average defenders (still hopeful Murray can become a good defender). Sabonis ideally has 4 good defenders around him who can help makeup for his lack of length, athleticism, and rim protection. It was one of the reasons I was hesitant about the Huerter trade back in the day because (although a good player) he didn’t seem like the ideal fit in a starting lineup that has a defensive C like Sabonis.
2. Someone who can provide a bit of rim protection/weak side shot blocking at PF. Murray is not horrible in this department (especially as a rookie and SF) but if our PF could help block some shots (vs. Barnes who averages 0.1 BLK per 36 min), I think it would go a long way to help reduce the layup/dunk lines we see here and there. I’m not saying we need a Jaren Jackson level type shot blocker (although I wouldn’t complain) but some who can help us contest a few more shots at the rim.
3. Another above average to good rebounder at SG, SF, or PF. Sabonis is obviously a great rebounder but Huerter, Murray, & Barnes are all below average to average rebounders. I think it would go a long way to have one more solid rebounder out there to give Sabonis some help when teams are sending 3-4 guys to crash the board.
4. Another star player at SG, SF, or PF. If we address the first three points above, we’d already be a much better and competitive team with very few weaknesses but if this team wants to get into that top/championship level tier, we’d ideally have another star who can push Sabonis into that 3rd scoring option/facilitator role. The 3rd star ideally needs to be a good shooter and defender as well to stay consistent with the first point.

I also posted this in the Sabonis thread on what I'd like to see him focus on:

I think it’s easy for us to see what would be an important thing for Sabonis to work on (other than being able to finish when going right). He needs to be better at making his midrange jumpers and speed up his release.

The Warriors are sagging off Sabonis when he has the ball in the midrange and daring him to shoot. This allows Looney/Green to take away any back door cuts for easy layups (anyone else notice that we haven’t had any of those cuts this series?) since they are camped in the paint. And since the perimeter defenders know that a back door cut will be neutralized by Looney/Green in the paint, they overplay on the DHO which takes that action away from us. I think this has been the biggest disruptor to Sabonis’ effectiveness in this series.

Now Sabonis is not a dreadful shooter from the midrange. He’s shot 51% from 10-16ft and 44% from 16ft-3PT line, but compare that to Jokić who shoots 50% from 10-16ft and 59% from 16ft-3PT line. Obviously, it would be much more difficult for them to justify someone like Jokić taking those shots vs. Sabonis. On top of that, you have to consider how long it takes Sabonis to shoot. It’s no secret that Sabonis’ wind up takes awhile. Even if a defender is giving him space, they have time to close out simply due to how long it takes him to release.

Long story short, I think Sabonis playmaking ability and DHOs would be much more effective in the playoffs if he could punish defenders that sag off him in the midrange. It looks like he spent a lot of time this past off-season working on his shooting so I’m sure he’s already aware of this and is actively working to improve this area of his game. I’m looking forward to seeing how his game progresses over the next few years.

 

[The_Jamal]

It's a lot deeper than season stats and I think this series revealed some of that, but its Ok, you consider him to be a lot more valuable player than I do. I don't consider him a franchise type player and I don't believe the rest of the league does either, despite being an All Star and probably voted into 3rd team All NBA. He's certainly the best big we've had in a while.

I mean, too bad. He's the best the Kings are going to get. He's obviously not Giannis/Jokic/Steph/Embiid tier, but he's right there in that next grouping. Guys capable of putting up an All-NBA season just don't walk through the door in Sacramento very often.

It was an excellent first step this season with Fox/Domas/Brown as the head of the team. Now it's on Monte to fill the gaps and figure out how you take this core to the next level.

 

[serbiangoat]

Surely there a all-star/border line all star who saw Sabonis/Fox this year and would think yeah I would want to be a part of that. The Kings just need that 3rd player.

 

[reptilexcq2]

Next

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652796060883116033

I mean... yeah.

Before the playoffs, I'd have given us like a 85-90% chance to resign Barnes and want to resign Barnes. He was so bad, I'm not even sure if it's 50-50 anymore or if he's even on our list to keep.

Barnes is a good regular season player, not good under pressure. That's why he missed free throws that he normally made and missed a clutch winner at the 3. Even despite that, I'll give him a pass because even the greatest shooters missed shots. But it isn't about that with Barnes...it's about the other things that he didn't impact on the game. I mean just look at this game...no rebound, no assist, no block...and you're a starter? That can never happened. This is also why he get limited minutes in game 6 and other games because his impact on the game is not great. What the Kings need is someone like Jaren Jackson Jr that can impact the game on both end. Murray may develop into that type of player in the future but for now, Barnes position need to be upgraded to help out with the lack of size and presence in the starting lineups. Even Sabonis can get overwhelm with size when you play a team that is taller and bigger. You will have players like Wembanyama, Jokic, Ayton, Embiid, AD, Holmgren, Jaren Jackson Jr. that Kings automatically lose advantage every time they face them. Ideal player would be Lopez that can block shots and rebound and stretch the floor all the way to the 3 so Fox can attack the basket. You can't have a big that can't shoot like Len.

 

[twslam07]

Lyles is an intriguing fit as our starting PF next year (with Barnes coming off the bench).

For starters, Lyles has a massive size advantage over Barnes:

• 9.25" hand length (0.25" more than Barnes)
• 10.25" hand width (1.75" more than Barnes)
• 6'9" w/o shoes (2" more than Barnes)
• 9'0" standing reach (6.5" more than Barnes)
• 7'1.5" wingspan (2.25" more than Barnes)
• 241.2 lbs (13.4 lbs more than Barnes)

I cited earlier that some of the improvement areas we need to focus on is adding another solid rebounder to the starting lineup (as Huerter, Murray, & Barnes are all below average to average rebounders) and we'd need a PF who can help us protect the rim a bit more than someone like Barnes (Murray is pretty good in this department for a SF already).

• Lyles averages 8.7 REB per 36 min (Barnes averages 4.9 REB per 36 min)
• Lyles averages 0.9 BLK per 36 min (Barnes averages 0.1 BLK per 36 min)

His size, rebounding, and rim protection seem to help address a lot of the issues we're all pointing out, but will the offense drop off a cliff if Lyles replaces Barnes in the starting lineup?

• Barnes averages 16.6 PTS per 36 min on .632 TS% while Lyles averages 16.2 PTS per 36 min on .607 TS% (not a huge difference in volume and efficiency)
• Barnes averages 4.8 3PA per 36 min on .374 3P% while Lyles averages 6.9 3PA per 36 min on .363 3P% (not a big difference in efficiency but Lyles takes almost 1.5X the amount of 3s per minute. I think spacing would at least be comparable)
• Barnes shoots .395 from the 3PT Corner while Lyles shoots .435 from the 3PT Corner (with Huerter and Murray performing the majority of the DHOs at the top of the key, I think having a better 3PT Corner shooter in this position is important).
• Barnes averages 1.7 AST per 36 min while Lyles averages 1.9 AST per 36 min (we shouldn't see a big breakdown in ball movement)
• Barnes has a .171 USG% while Lyles has a .181 USG%

I think we'd all agree that Barnes is a better scorer, gets to the FT line a bit more, can iso a bit, etc. which I think would be pretty effective in our bench unit when we need some scoring help. Lyles' size, length, defense, rebounding, and shooting seems like a good/better fit in the starting lineup on paper. You also have the fact that at the start of next season, Lyles will be 27 and Barnes will be 31.

 

[ppine]

The Kings already have the high octane offense. The formula to get to the next level is simple in concept. Better team defense. Edwards is one of the guys that can help. Mitchell is a resource. Fox can change games with defense. Rebounding is the secondary issue. Game 7 was hugely affected by the Ws ability to get offensive rebounds.

The second major hurdle is mostly mental. It takes time for a team to believe in themselves under the bright lights against championship teams. The Kings may have had an easier time against a different team.

 

[Tetsujin]

The Kings already have the high octane offense. The formula to get to the next level is simple in concept. Better team defense. Edwards is one of the guys that can help. Mitchell is a resource. Fox can change games with defense. Rebounding is the secondary issue. Game 7 was hugely affected by the Ws ability to get offensive rebounds.

The second major hurdle is mostly mental. It takes time for a team to believe in themselves under the bright lights against championship teams. The Kings may have had an easier time against a different team.

I do think we’re going to see some natural improvement from the team’s defense without even making huge moves as it is. Coming into the season, pretty much none of the guys on the team knew each other and the coaching staff was still trying to figure out its personnel.

I know it’s a bit of an “Aside from that Mrs. Kennedy, how was the parade?” Sort of situation but the Kings defense was doing a pretty good job on defense in Game 7 except for Steph going supernova.

 

[Letsgokings13]

He's a bad defender from what I'm hearing.

Also a locker room cancer

 

[reptilexcq2]

The Kings already have the high octane offense. The formula to get to the next level is simple in concept. Better team defense. Edwards is one of the guys that can help. Mitchell is a resource. Fox can change games with defense. Rebounding is the secondary issue. Game 7 was hugely affected by the Ws ability to get offensive rebounds.

The second major hurdle is mostly mental. It takes time for a team to believe in themselves under the bright lights against championship teams. The Kings may have had an easier time against a different team.

I do like Kessler Edward. He's the type that have a knack for getting rebound and does the fundamental like boxing out. He's already better than Barnes in that area as well as individual defense and team help defense. Barnes is a better offensive player. Too bad Brown didn't give him any minutes in the series.