What do you think of the new starting lineup?

[King Baller]

The teams in the NBA will start game prep for IT, Thornton & Tyreke lineup. Tall teams will just shoot over them the way Stuckey, Knight and Prince did the other night in Detroit. Tyreke is a very good defender at the 1 and 2, Against Tayshaun, LeBron, Granger etc. he will get eaten alive. SF rotation should be Greene, Salmons & Honeycutt.

KB

 

[Glenn]

It baffles me really.
You aren't gonna make the playoffs playing the way we play right now. Our current SF's that have been playing are so bad that the coach decides to go with a 3 guard starting lineup.

IF you're doing that, why not explore what Honeycutt has to offer. I like the demeanor Smart brings to the table, but his lineups are odd to say the least. Would really explore and test the Jerry Sloan interest in the summer.

I think this is inevitable unless we become unbeatable at home and make a push for the playoffs. Like the experiment with IT, I think we need to try Honeycutt to see what needs to be done for next year unless it already has been decide about Honeycutt. (Kinda doubt it)

 

[IfAt1st]

If the Kings "only" had Sloan for 2 years, they should thank their lucky stars they had a real coach for that long!
What is this absurd fantasy that to be a Kings coach, you need to commit to a 5+ year long career?
This is the KINGS we're talking about - not San Antonio, not Utah, not LA, or anywhere else.

2 years is a HUGE amount of time in Sacto.
We're not aiming for a championship - we're looking to not be a laughingstock and to be relevant in the NBA again.
Anyone having championships in their eyes and not choosing a HoF coach like Sloan (IF the Kings were lucky enough to have him be interested (which it sounds like he may well be) and smart enough to go after him asap) is deluding themselves to the detriment of this team and franchise.
Smart has proven so far to be completely incapable of implementing a successful NBA offensive OR defensive scheme.

And I would welcome opposing players trying to shoot OVER Tyreke, IT and Thornton because currently they're driving right past or using the pick-and-roll and passing it for dunks against us.
The other team having to shoot OVER our players would be a welcome change, so I really don't see that as a huge negative defensively the way it would normally be. Not everyone in the league is a Tayshaun Prince.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Smart has proven so far to be completely incapable of implementing a successful NBA offensive OR defensive scheme.

Oh sure, GS had no offensive system last year and you are definitely right, he has had MORE than enough time this year what with his extended training camp and not taking over a new team partway into the season, oh yeah!! Totally fair assessment. Genius even!!!

 

[swisshh]

It needs one more change most likely. Thornton is ultimately a killer 6th man, but maybe Smart doesn't feel he has the SF he likes to make Marcus that 6th man yet.

 

[Kingster]

I'd go with the existing lineup, or with Donte or Garcia in there in place of Thornton. (I like Garcia to play with IT because Garcia moves very well without the ball). You just need guys to move and swing the ball rather than dribble, dribble, dribble. Thornton needs to come off the bench. He continues to frustrate me when he tries to dribble the ball. He gets it stolen, he makes turnovers, he just doesn't have much vision. If he could just receive the pass and shoot, he'd be very good, but he tries to do waaay too much. At the most, he's a two dribble player - if he can't do what he needs in two dribbles, then don't do it at all.

I'd like to put Salmons in the corner for the rest of the season. Can you believe that we could have had Knight and IT if it weren't for the Salmons trade?

 

[cuad]

I like this lineup because I don't have a problem with Evans at the three. I think he's just as much of a three as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is supposed to be.

But I wouldn't be opposed a lineup with Donte instead of Thornton because IT - Thornton - Evans are too short to go all the way with. One day they should get a full-sized super scoring SF. The team should move away from Evans as a scorer, cause he can only score in one way.

 

[Kingster]

If the Kings "only" had Sloan for 2 years, they should thank their lucky stars they had a real coach for that long!
What is this absurd fantasy that to be a Kings coach, you need to commit to a 5+ year long career?
This is the KINGS we're talking about - not San Antonio, not Utah, not LA, or anywhere else.

2 years is a HUGE amount of time in Sacto.
We're not aiming for a championship - we're looking to not be a laughingstock and to be relevant in the NBA again.
Anyone having championships in their eyes and not choosing a HoF coach like Sloan (IF the Kings were lucky enough to have him be interested (which it sounds like he may well be) and smart enough to go after him asap) is deluding themselves to the detriment of this team and franchise.
Smart has proven so far to be completely incapable of implementing a successful NBA offensive OR defensive scheme.

And I would welcome opposing players trying to shoot OVER Tyreke, IT and Thornton because currently they're driving right past or using the pick-and-roll and passing it for dunks against us.
The other team having to shoot OVER our players would be a welcome change, so I really don't see that as a huge negative defensively the way it would normally be. Not everyone in the league is a Tayshaun Prince.

Bingo! I haven't seen this inside domination, just the Open Door Policy.

 

[Section 101]

It needs one more change most likely. Thornton is ultimately a killer 6th man, but maybe Smart doesn't feel he has the SF he likes to make Marcus that 6th man yet.

As I've state in numerous threads it needs to be Donte. We need more of IT to Donte on the breaks. Donte is the best on the team at running the floor.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I think that line-up is too small.

IT is too small against any PG, so is Thornton against any SG, and so is Evans against any SF. That line-up needs DMC to be a monster all night or this team won't be seeing wins any time soon.

I don't think Smart will stick with that lineup for another 5 games. I think Smart is still on the stage of trying to figure out different effective combination of this team. That is one good combination but it ain't gonna save this franchise.

 

[Spok22]

I like it, simply because it means Salmons is not on the floor.

Like others have mentioned we had 3 or 4 occasions last night where we threatened to pull away, and it always coincided with a Salmons miss.

I know it's a dumb point because everyone missed buckets but if Salmons gives us 1 three we win. Having said that Thornton went 1-6 from three, he tends to jack up even with someone in his face, even if there's a pass on. I still don't think the whole "team ball" philosophy has sunk in, I'm not sure it ever will.

I.T definitely dominated the ball coming up the court, but he's an incredibly willing passer, 11 assists and only 2 TO basically having the ball the whole night seems pretty good to me.

I might be seeing things but M.T's body language seems a bit low since Thomas has come in, maybe he thinks he's taking his touches or something.

Smart always bangs on about matchups, so maybe we don't see I.T starting against Miami, lets face it, whether he starts or not we are going to struggle. But it's about giving us the best chance to win.

I would probably put thornton on the bench for instant offense and start isaiah, tyreke, donte, thompson and cousins. I don't really like reke at sf beause all of his physical advantages are lost. Also, with all of our troubles with offense off the bench, Thornton would be able to shoot more than he is right now. I don't know if Thornton would be happy coming off the bench but it seems like it would work the best. We need to trade Jimmer. I like him but theres not enough room for him anymore with IT. Maybe trade him to utah? or package him for a legit sf. Also with hickson, maybe we should start him. Maybe he was so used to starting at cle and being on the bench is messing up his game. Thompson has proven that he can still be very productive off the bench. Just some thoughts.

 

[cuad]

We should not trade Jimmer because without him we would have only one PG. There's plenty of room for Jimmer on a team with with just one other point guard anyway.

 

[Section 101]

I would probably put thornton on the bench for instant offense and start isaiah, tyreke, donte, thompson and cousins. I don't really like reke at sf beause all of his physical advantages are lost. Also, with all of our troubles with offense off the bench, Thornton would be able to shoot more than he is right now. I don't know if Thornton would be happy coming off the bench but it seems like it would work the best. We need to trade Jimmer. I like him but theres not enough room for him anymore with IT. Maybe trade him to utah? or package him for a legit sf. Also with hickson, maybe we should start him. Maybe he was so used to starting at cle and being on the bench is messing up his game. Thompson has proven that he can still be very productive off the bench. Just some thoughts.

You don't trade a guy after 31 games unless you see something way off.

Jimmer's overall play has been erratic. But he has shown flashes of his potential to be starting PG in the league. He has good court vision an awareness. He needs to learn the speed of the game more than anything. Most PG's take 3+ years in the league to figure it out. The Rose types are the exception not the rule.

 

[steelevt]

i kinda wanna see the IT/evans/greene/JT/cousins lineup. for all the people who thought evans and martin couldnt coexist, i wonder why they havent thought the same thing about evans/thornton, unless they just didnt like martin. i know they are not the same player. martin is soft and his defense isnt good, but thornton hasnt exactly been a defensive stopper. he seems more selfish on offense especially on the fast breaks. after the trade, i saw a lot of things i liked about thornton over martin. he was more clutch, peskier on defense and A LOT cheaper. but after he got his big payday, he has been a disappointment imo. he's not terrible, just a bit inconsistent and not as good as i have hoped. im fine with having him as a spark plug off the bench and giving a IT/evans backcourt a chance. i kinda wish we could have seen a cousins/evans/martin trio. martins game seems to fit cousins. he slashes off the ball, and can spot up at the 3 pt line. but i guess if we never made the trade, we probably would never have gotten cousins so its all pointless.

 

[ovrush]

I'm glad IT has had a couple of good games in losses to bad teams as a centerpiece. Seems like less than a week ago Tyreke was playing PG putting up big numbers and not gettingnear this amount of credit when we ran off a couple wins against good teams with a full sized lineup and IT playing an integral sparkplug role off the bench. Realizing Salmons is worthless doesn't make smallball the right answer. Tyreke/Thornton/Donte/JT/Counsins with IT as a heavy minute sixth man would give us a much better chance to win short term and long term. I appreciate that coach smart is a good teacher, and I can see the guys improving, but a 3 guard lineup won't win in the NBA.

I don't know who to blame, but it drives me nuts that we've gone from a team last year that was bigger than every other team in the league at almost every position to the exact opposite in 8 months. small quick lineups are fun to watch, but there's a long history of them being light on substance and quality wins.

 

[roasthawg]

the Donte move should have been made a long time ago. Its perfectly obvious. Its also getting obvious at this point Smart won't do it becuase Donte is too tall, and hence a PF in his eyes. Its one of the Achilles' of this coach.

I think it's because we need more offense from that position than Donte can provide night in and night out.

 

[xrzn]

I'm glad IT has had a couple of good games in losses to bad teams as a centerpiece. Seems like less than a week ago Tyreke was playing PG putting up big numbers and not gettingnear this amount of credit when we ran off a couple wins against good teams with a full sized lineup and IT playing an integral sparkplug role off the bench. Realizing Salmons is worthless doesn't make smallball the right answer. Tyreke/Thornton/Donte/JT/Counsins with IT as a heavy minute sixth man would give us a much better chance to win short term and long term. I appreciate that coach smart is a good teacher, and I can see the guys improving, but a 3 guard lineup won't win in the NBA.

I don't know who to blame, but it drives me nuts that we've gone from a team last year that was bigger than every other team in the league at almost every position to the exact opposite in 8 months. small quick lineups are fun to watch, but there's a long history of them being light on substance and quality wins.

Wins thread.

Reke/MT/Donte/JT/DMC is what I want to see.

 

[roasthawg]

i kinda wanna see the IT/evans/greene/JT/cousins lineup. for all the people who thought evans and martin couldnt coexist, i wonder why they havent thought the same thing about evans/thornton, unless they just didnt like martin. i know they are not the same player. martin is soft and his defense isnt good, but thornton hasnt exactly been a defensive stopper. he seems more selfish on offense especially on the fast breaks. after the trade, i saw a lot of things i liked about thornton over martin. he was more clutch, peskier on defense and A LOT cheaper. but after he got his big payday, he has been a disappointment imo. he's not terrible, just a bit inconsistent and not as good as i have hoped. im fine with having him as a spark plug off the bench and giving a IT/evans backcourt a chance. i kinda wish we could have seen a cousins/evans/martin trio. martins game seems to fit cousins. he slashes off the ball, and can spot up at the 3 pt line. but i guess if we never made the trade, we probably would never have gotten cousins so its all pointless.

I agree about Thornton... we'd be better served having him come off the bench. We'd be even better off if we could trade him for an equal caliber sf.

 

[Tetsujin]

I think it's because we need more offense from that position than Donte can provide night in and night out.

If that were the main reason, then why in the world are Outlaw and Salmons in that rotation. The SF on our team is supposed to be the 5th option at pretty much all times. Offense from him is pretty much just a bonus

 

[rainmaker]

I'm glad IT has had a couple of good games in losses to bad teams as a centerpiece. Seems like less than a week ago Tyreke was playing PG putting up big numbers and not gettingnear this amount of credit when we ran off a couple wins against good teams with a full sized lineup and IT playing an integral sparkplug role off the bench. Realizing Salmons is worthless doesn't make smallball the right answer. Tyreke/Thornton/Donte/JT/Counsins with IT as a heavy minute sixth man would give us a much better chance to win short term and long term. I appreciate that coach smart is a good teacher, and I can see the guys improving, but a 3 guard lineup won't win in the NBA.

I don't know who to blame, but it drives me nuts that we've gone from a team last year that was bigger than every other team in the league at almost every position to the exact opposite in 8 months. small quick lineups are fun to watch, but there's a long history of them being light on substance and quality wins.

I agree with this, especially the bolded part. In my mind, either IT or Thornton is the 6th man. I can go either way. Most want Donte at the 3 except coach.

But this small ball crap is asinine. What makes it worse is telling Reke to stand in corner while not only sacrificing defense, but also our bench scoring. Going from a large team to a team playing pansy small ball drives me nuts to.

Smart is a very good teacher and has a good relationship with Cousins. Those are huge positives. But his philosophy regarding lineups, small ball and substitutions are problems, and not small ones at that. I think because we haven't had a good coach since Rick, and haven't had a coach worth his salt regarding teaching with such a young team until Smart, he's somewhat overrated. But he hasn't done enough for me to warrant not considering other coaches this summer. Doesn't mean I wouldn't bring Smart back and I want to see how he does the rest of the year.

He could very well trot out the three guard lineup against Wade/Lebron and have us get pushed around like cub scouts while getting pummeled. That's a coach not putting his team in the best position to succeed.

 

[pshn80]

I think it's because we need more offense from that position than Donte can provide night in and night out.

But that is an inconsistency. IT starts and stars and we worry about his cutting into Evans and Thornton scoring. One way to solve that is to start Donte and not worry about it, just worry about Donte's defense. Let IT and Evans score and let Donte play defense. Anything above that in the scoring realm is a bonus.

 

[Spok22]

You don't trade a guy after 31 games unless you see something way off.

Jimmer's overall play has been erratic. But he has shown flashes of his potential to be starting PG in the league. He has good court vision an awareness. He needs to learn the speed of the game more than anything. Most PG's take 3+ years in the league to figure it out. The Rose types are the exception not the rule.

Im not saying that i am giving up on Jimmer. I just don't think we have room for him. I actually really like him and am hoping that we can find some way to make him our starting guard or 3rd guard. However, with the play of IT, we already have a pretty good 3 guard rotation and the only way i can see Jimmer getting decent minutes/backup minutes is if we stick with the lineup as is. But then as I said before, I don't like Reke at sf...

That might change of course. Not sure if IT will be able to consistently play that way and Jimmer looks to be improving and also looks like a better fit as a less ball dominant shooter.

 

[cuad]

i kinda wanna see the IT/evans/greene/JT/cousins lineup. for all the people who thought evans and martin couldnt coexist, i wonder why they havent thought the same thing about evans/thornton, unless they just didnt like martin. i know they are not the same player. martin is soft and his defense isnt good, but thornton hasnt exactly been a defensive stopper. he seems more selfish on offense especially on the fast breaks. after the trade, i saw a lot of things i liked about thornton over martin. he was more clutch, peskier on defense and A LOT cheaper. but after he got his big payday, he has been a disappointment imo. he's not terrible, just a bit inconsistent and not as good as i have hoped. im fine with having him as a spark plug off the bench and giving a IT/evans backcourt a chance. i kinda wish we could have seen a cousins/evans/martin trio. martins game seems to fit cousins. he slashes off the ball, and can spot up at the 3 pt line. but i guess if we never made the trade, we probably would never have gotten cousins so its all pointless.

Marcus Thornton is suffering big time from lack of Beno IMO. I'm willing to bet that MT23 played more minutes next to Beno than Evans last year, because Evans was out with injuries.

But you're right, the Thornton - Evans backcourt failed as much as the Martin - Evans backcourt, and for the same reason. I thought I saw MT23 pick up his game when he was playing next to Jimmer in Detroit, but SMART doesn't roll out that combination much. Instead he insists on playing Jimmer at SG next to Evans, which doesn't work.

 

[Spike]

I'm glad IT has had a couple of good games in losses to bad teams as a centerpiece. Seems like less than a week ago Tyreke was playing PG putting up big numbers and not gettingnear this amount of credit when we ran off a couple wins against good teams with a full sized lineup and IT playing an integral sparkplug role off the bench. Realizing Salmons is worthless doesn't make smallball the right answer. Tyreke/Thornton/Donte/JT/Counsins with IT as a heavy minute sixth man would give us a much better chance to win short term and long term. I appreciate that coach smart is a good teacher, and I can see the guys improving, but a 3 guard lineup won't win in the NBA.

I don't know who to blame, but it drives me nuts that we've gone from a team last year that was bigger than every other team in the league at almost every position to the exact opposite in 8 months. small quick lineups are fun to watch, but there's a long history of them being light on substance and quality wins.

Winner!

 

[Bricklayer]

Marcus Thornton is suffering big time from lack of Beno IMO. I'm willing to bet that MT23 played more minutes next to Beno than Evans last year, because Evans was out with injuries.

But you're right, the Thornton - Evans backcourt failed as much as the Martin - Evans backcourt, and for the same reason. I thought I saw MT23 pick up his game when he was playing next to Jimmer in Detroit, but SMART doesn't roll out that combination much. Instead he insists on playing Jimmer at SG next to Evans, which doesn't work.

Actually Jimmer at SG next to Reke was a) mostly while Thornton was out; but b) has maybe worked better than anythign else for Jimmer. He can't handle the ball at a PG level against aggressive defenses. He also is too small to guard SGs. But put him next to Reke and he has to do neither, and that was where he first began to wake up a little as a spotshooting 3pt shooter. When he controls the ball he always wants to shoot off the dribble or drive inside and get in trouble.

 

[mac]

i kinda wanna see the IT/evans/greene/JT/cousins lineup. for all the people who thought evans and martin couldnt coexist, i wonder why they havent thought the same thing about evans/thornton, unless they just didnt like martin. i know they are not the same player. martin is soft and his defense isnt good, but thornton hasnt exactly been a defensive stopper. he seems more selfish on offense especially on the fast breaks. after the trade, i saw a lot of things i liked about thornton over martin. he was more clutch, peskier on defense and A LOT cheaper. but after he got his big payday, he has been a disappointment imo. he's not terrible, just a bit inconsistent and not as good as i have hoped. im fine with having him as a spark plug off the bench and giving a IT/evans backcourt a chance. i kinda wish we could have seen a cousins/evans/martin trio. martins game seems to fit cousins. he slashes off the ball, and can spot up at the 3 pt line. but i guess if we never made the trade, we probably would never have gotten cousins so its all pointless.

Marcus Thornton was a very different player last season IMO. You are spot on about him this season - and in fact I'd rather have Martin if Thornton continues playing this way (except for the fact that he costs more). Gambles for steals, seems selfish offensively, still not a very reliable 3 point shooter. Seems to lack some of the defense, hustle and willingness to pass the ball that he did last year. One of my guesses is that it's because he's no longer our main gun running plays, whereas that was kind of his role when Tyreke was out. Could mean that now he's looking to score more and create for others less.

 

[Glenn]

I have a feeling Thornton is wearing out as might many others on the team simply because of the schedule. This is based on my "glass is 1/2 full" DNA. I am not going to fault him as an individual when there are multiple players who are disappointments. JJ is a disappointment. Salmons is a disappointment. Shooting percentages are down team wide. There is even a new coach who might be underperforming. Who knows?

As long as the season is not going to end up in a playoff spot, I am all for experimentation. Everybody should get a shot in the vein of IT. Let's learn what these guys can do in different situations and prepare for next year. I would even like to see a starting lineup of Salmons, Tyreke, Greene, JT, and Cousins. At least have it on the floor for an 8 minute stretch. It's big. The two guards can be somewhat selfish without irking JT and Greene. I'd welcome comment on that lineup. What the heck?

We can't rationally blame the team's woes on one guy, can we?

 

[kingsfan101]

I have a feeling Thornton is wearing out as might many others on the team simply because of the schedule. This is based on my "glass is 1/2 full" DNA. I am not going to fault him as an individual when there are multiple players who are disappointments. JJ is a disappointment. Salmons is a disappointment. Shooting percentages are down team wide. There is even a new coach who might be underperforming. Who knows?

As long as the season is not going to end up in a playoff spot, I am all for experimentation. Everybody should get a shot in the vein of IT. Let's learn what these guys can do in different situations and prepare for next year. I would even like to see a starting lineup of Salmons, Tyreke, Greene, JT, and Cousins. At least have it on the floor for an 8 minute stretch. It's big. The two guards can be somewhat selfish without irking JT and Greene. I'd welcome comment on that lineup. What the heck?

We can't rationally blame the team's woes on one guy, can we?

I like this lineup, and had also suggested it earlier. We shall be big, and Salmons might not be so bad at the 2 position.

One major limitation though of the above lineup shall be the complete absence of outside shooting. MT/Jimmer/IT, while inconsistent, provide a threat of outside shooting. One of the them on the court shall help stretch the defense a bit. Have Reke/Salmons (or Cisco)/Donte on the perimeter, and the teams can pack the paint, and dare us to beat them from outside. Unless one of these guys is having a great night, this shall get ugly.

 

[pshn80]

But you're right, the Thornton - Evans backcourt failed as much as the Martin - Evans backcourt, and for the same reason. I thought I saw MT23 pick up his game when he was playing next to Jimmer in Detroit, but SMART doesn't roll out that combination much. Instead he insists on playing Jimmer at SG next to Evans, which doesn't work.

A thought. Does Evans have anyone who plays well next to him when he has the ball?

 

[jcwkings]

further proves that Tyreke is near useless off the ball. if this team wants to build around tyreke, they have to commit to him being either the pg or the ball dominant sg. i would be commited if tyreke showed drive and mental toughness, but im not seeing it.