What do we know about the new guys?

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
#31
Look, you know in a lot of ways this does not matter. There are really two times when you are excited about this sort of stuff -- either 1) when you are competing for a championship; or 2) when you are talking about a bunch of exciting young talent with a chance to be great. We are in enither situation rihgt now. Caught in between. We should still make the playoffs, but our chances are the worst they've been since 2000, and that team was even more exciting on a young/potential way.


So this is just sort of a shrug. We have undertalented undersized PFs. They will try their best for the remaining 30 games, and then we'll get down to the serious retooling int he offseason. No biggee. ;)
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#32
#32
Gtronic said:
Bricklayer - just wondering. you got anything positive to say? Or you just going to keep throwing negative comments to everybody trying to make the best of this situation.
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He is entitled to his right to be negative, as we have the right to be positive..

I hope he gets over it. We don't need 4 allstars to win a championship, and with 5 players on the floor who could all score might actually in my mind hurt the team. I feel with Webber on the floor the rest of the team were not clear oin what they were supposed to do, or bring to this team. That happens when you have 5 guys that want the ball and only one to go around.. That is why the olympic team was not successful..
 
El Duque

El Duque

G-League
#33
#33
Well, if you don't think that Kenny Thomas will solve our PF position, I just don't think I can speak to you anymore. :p

I think this is the perfect time to bring back the Prince of Dunk, personally.
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#34
#34
Bricklayer said:
So this is just sort of a shrug. We have undertalented undersized PFs. They will try their best for the remaining 30 games, and then we'll get down to the serious retooling int he offseason. No biggee. ;)
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We go have undertalented, undersized PFs. We also have a lot more shots for our best offensive players and we also have more athleticism to be able to run more and defend more aggressively. The guys we aquired are hard workers, and they'll get the job done. We are no worse after this trade.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#37
#37
Gtronic said:
Bricklayer - just wondering. you got anything positive to say? Or you just going to keep throwing negative comments to everybody trying to make the best of this situation.
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I'm going to keep on being realistic about what we have here. Short timers without the skills we need to be great. They are not scrubs, but they fix none of our problems.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Sixers were nearly as bad on the glass and on defense as we have been with this crew up front. They try hard, but they lack talent.

BTW, I like Skinner as a thug, but unfortunately he's exacltly the sort of guy that we never seem to find any time for.
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#38
#38
El Duque, but that's all we need. We need them to occasionally cut to the basket and get a long rebound on offense. Pedja, Mobley, Bibby, Miller and now Corliss off the bench can take care of the scoring portion.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#39
#39
El Duque said:
That's pretty much their skillset.
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I only wish -- only Skinner is really good at either of those aspects. Corliss is more scorer than anything else. Thomas can rebound with hustle, but is overmatched on defense due to lack of size.

If we'd gotten back Dalmebert, that would be one thing. But we actually went backward on the glass and in shotblocking. Not easy to do.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#40
#40
We couldn't be any worse at rebounding than we were with Webber, and I m willing to put $$ that we will have better rebounding numbers than we did WITH Webber if you are game for a bet?
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#41
#41
Gary said:
We couldn't be any worse at rebounding than we were with Webber, and I m willing to put $$ that we will have better rebounding numbers than we did WITH Webber if you are game for a bet?
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I am convinced about that too... Webber got tons of easy boards that could have been grabbed by any other team member.
 
El Duque

El Duque

G-League
#42
#42
Bricklayer said:
I only wish -- only Skinner is really good at either of those aspects. Corliss is more scorer than anything else. Thomas can rebound with hustle, but is overmatched on defense due to lack of size.

If we'd gotten back Dalmebert, that would be one thing. But we actually went backward on the glass and in shotblocking. Not easy to do.
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Very true. Dalembert is a wish and a dream, though. Even a drugged up clown would hesitate to give up an astonishingly talented young center for a guy playing on what is literally his last leg. Maybe Garry St. Jean, but we're just not that lucky. You're right about Thomas being undersized, but what I meant about their skillsets is that they are pretty much all hustle players, and defense is more will and effort than talent, so I see us actually surrendering fewer points, individual defensive stats to the contrary. The boards are certainly a concern, but I think we might actually stay about level because while our starters' rebounding just took a plummet, our backups will contribute more rebounds seeing as Ostertag, Skinner, and Thomas/Songaila off the bench with Thomas/Songaila starting will probably about equal Webber/Songaila in boards. It's a (relentlessly) optimistic point of view, but it's not out of the question.
 
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Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#43
#43
sloter said:
I am convinced about that too... Webber got tons of easy boards that could have been grabbed by any other team member.
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like, say, peja?

:rolleyes:

no wait....it was bibby, the 6 foot point guard, who got all those rebounds that webber didnt pull down.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#44
#44
Gary said:
We couldn't be any worse at rebounding than we were with Webber, and I m willing to put $$ that we will have better rebounding numbers than we did WITH Webber if you are game for a bet?
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I think we might, but part of that is because I suspect Peja may quit tanking. Otherwise? We'll have to see. These players themselves are not capable of providing more rebounding than the ones we traded away (unless we were actually to play Skinner a bunch of minutes). If the rebounding does pick up it will be because of some sort of spillover effect +, as mentioned, Peja magically beginning to try again.

These guys have been in the league for years. No surprises out of them.
 
S

shaka zulu

Bench
#45
#45
Brian skinner 6'9 254 pounds can rebound given the time and oppurtunity to play.His health is a Big concern for aquiring him in the trade,But if healthy he can rebound and clogged the paint better than what webb would do.Kenny thomas 6'7 230 pounds is not a commanding rebounder but he is good at getting loose rebounds and other garbage thangs that fall off the board.Kenny is not a high vertical jumper but a quick jumper and reacts to the ball quick with no delay. he can hit the 15 ft jumper from the elbow but he is not as consistent as webb from the perimeter or anywhere else on the floor.Corliss williamson can score when he's up against mismatches from the small forward position he will draw double teams which is plus for the perimeter game.

The Team got some role players but only time will tell if this trade was to win now or never.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#46
#46
shaka zulu said:
The Team got some role players but only time will tell if this trade was to win now or never.
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maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but are you actually saying the kings have a better chance to win a championship now than they did two days ago? :confused:
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#47
#47
Padrino said:
maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but are you actually saying the kings have a better chance to win a championship now than they did two days ago? :confused:
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Well, I really believe that, but that's not really saying much, because our chances were 0, so this can only be an improvement in that regard.
 
Heuge

Heuge

Starter
#48
#48
sloter said:
Well, I really believe that, but that's not really saying much, because our chances were 0, so this can only be an improvement in that regard.
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That is where I think you are wrong....we didn't have a great chance but we had one. Now with an undersized pf, and our only true superstar gone... we are done as a contender for a while.
 
S

shaka zulu

Bench
#49
#49
Padrino said:
maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but are you actually saying the kings have a better chance to win a championship now than they did two days ago? :confused:
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we will have to see we don't know if we had a better shot now or 10 days ago.Change is part of the game.You have to make adjustments but you will never know until the playoffs.I think they should have communicated with Webber better than they did and tell him what they wanted out of him instead of making a panic move to trade.They never standed up against his bad chemistry issues or his poor shot selection.They could have explained to him his role better instead of pretending he was thisl eader and that man on the TEAM.Bad communication
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#50
#50
Heuge said:
That is where I think you are wrong....we didn't have a great chance but we had one. Now with an undersized pf, and our only true superstar gone... we are done as a contender for a while.
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How is someone a superstar without being an all-star ?
 
KP

KP

Starter
#52
#52
shaka zulu said:
we will have to see we don't know if we had a better shot now or 10 days ago.Change is part of the game.You have to make adjustments but you will never know until the playoffs.I think they should have communicated with Webber better than they did and tell him what they wanted out of him instead of making a panic move to trade.They never standed up against his bad chemistry issues or his poor shot selection.They could have explained to him his role better instead of pretending he was thisl eader and that man on the TEAM.Bad communication
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Shaka, I've gotta know... we won't know for sure until it plays out of course but at first look... do you think this was a good trade?
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#53
#53
shaka zulu said:
we will have to see we don't know if we had a better shot now or 10 days ago.Change is part of the game.You have to make adjustments but you will never know until the playoffs.I think they should have communicated with Webber better than they did and tell him what they wanted out of him instead of making a panic move to trade.They never standed up against his bad chemistry issues or his poor shot selection.They could have explained to him his role better instead of pretending he was thisl eader and that man on the TEAM.Bad communication
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where does this "bad chemistry" bull**** come from? peja had a problem with webber. webber has openly said he has no problems with any of his teammates. and he clearly was the leader of this team. "they," whoever you're referring to, didnt make him out to be that way. he had the guts and the drive to step up when we needed him too. peja didnt. simple. we traded the wrong guy. you all harp on injuries and bad chemistry...but if a championship is what you want to see from this team, and soon, then you dont trade away the guy who's gonna take you there. this is clearly a process of rebuilding. the only guys i imagine will remain with the kings 3 years from now are bibby and miller, and possibly stojakovic, if he's happy now. we'll keep darius and special-k, but what else is there??? where are the kings as you know them??? nowhere to be found. the team will change, and a championship will elude them for several more years.
 
S

shaka zulu

Bench
#54
#54
KP said:
Shaka, I've gotta know... we won't know for sure until it plays out of course but at first look... do you think this was a good trade?
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kind of wierd KP Iam shocked like the rest of the board don't reall know why they made teh move for those players.From my overstanding Brian skinner is injured don't know for sure but that's what I am hearing.Kenny thomas can get loose rebounds but he is not a primary rebound guy like webber or Brad who will get you those 10 Rebounds every night.But he di avaerage a double double last season.But in my opinion we get a guy in Thomas who can get some wierd rebounds like the ones that bounce off of our heads and the ones that come off the board crazy.He is a quick jumper can get second and third shots loose change.That stuff can help if we rebound by committe and send everyone to the boards all 5 guy's they must Gang rebound.

But back to Brian skniner he can guard post presence more physical than Webber but not as crafty as webber.But he can clogged the paint more than we have had in the past.He also has some junk offense he can to like thomas get junk rebounds that we have been so bad with.

Corliss can draw double teams and he probably will be the only legitimate post presence we have now.But he can only do this if he has mismatches from the # 3 position.His double teams will leave our perimeter game open so that will help.

Defensively we didn't address our issues but it is a slight improvement as well as the rebound aspect.

Overrall time will tell and looks can be decieving yo ucan't ever judge a book by it's cover.So we will see me personally I thought the TEAM could of got something better but we will just have to see.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#55
#55
shaka zulu said:
But in my opinion we get a guy in Thomas who can get some wierd rebounds like the ones that bounce off of our heads and the ones that come off the board crazy.
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yeah...now i can clearly see why petrie wanted to trade webber.
 
S

shaka zulu

Bench
#56
#56
Padrino said:
where does this "bad chemistry" bull**** come from? peja had a problem with webber. webber has openly said he has no problems with any of his teammates. and he clearly was the leader of this team. "they," whoever you're referring to, didnt make him out to be that way. he had the guts and the drive to step up when we needed him too. peja didnt. simple. we traded the wrong guy. you all harp on injuries and bad chemistry...but if a championship is what you want to see from this team, and soon, then you dont trade away the guy who's gonna take you there. this is clearly a process of rebuilding. the only guys i imagine will remain with the kings 3 years from now are bibby and miller, and possibly stojakovic, if he's happy now. we'll keep darius and special-k, but what else is there??? where are the kings as you know them??? nowhere to be found. the team will change, and a championship will elude them for several more years.
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Don't me mad at me take the complaint to petrie.
 
B

burekijogurt

Starter
#58
#58
If the rebounding does pick up it will be because of some sort of spillover effect +, as mentioned, Peja magically beginning to try again.
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Ostertag gets more minutes and two assignements: rebound and defend.
I don't think Peja's rebounding will increase much. I think he'll get better shots and his efficiency will increase.
 
OptimusRhyme

OptimusRhyme

Jive Turkey
#59
#59
Bricklayer said:
There's no hope for great boardwork out of him because a) he's a very mature "2nd year player" already entering the middle stages of his career who's develpment is mostly done (actually why we have had use for him more than for developing kids in the past), and b) physically he does not have the tools. I don't doubt his effort, but he's too small and too stuck to the ground and does not have long arms or great hands to make up for it. Darius is what he is, and a consistently strong rebounder he is not.

BTW, every player exceeds his averages on some nights, doesn't reach them on others. If we jsut take the good nights and ignore the rest then Brad should pull down 17rebs a game and Webb is going to average a triple doubel the rest of the year. Nto how it works.
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His development is not almost done, he still has alot to learn, he has yet to play game after game as a starter to show us what he can really do, its alot different when you come off the bench. Darius has the skills to put up 10 boards a game, I think your underestimating him alot, we haven't got to see what the real Songaila can do, how bout we reply to this in a month.
 
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