Westphal v. Rambis

[Gudmundur]

One of the things I love about this forum is that even though we're all Kings fans, there are A LOT of different opinions on every topic...but I thought of one I THINK we can all agree on...

I'm SO glad the Kings ended up getting Westphal and "lost" Kurt Rambis.

I didn't want Rambis to be the coach this summer, and I surely don't want him now.

I know I can't be alone.

 

[Jechtsphere]

I never wanted him in the first place.

Westphal was always my choice and I got what I wanted lol

 

[Krunker]

I'm with you, at least so far based on the directions both teams are going. Rambis and Flynn have both said that Rambis has the reins on him, an approach that I don't think Westphal takes.

 

[NME]

If his shot's falling and he can pull Rambis away from the basket, Westphal wins.

 

[bajaden]

Hmmm, I wonder if Rambis regrets the choice he made. I don't know why, but my gut told me that Rambis would be Reggie part two.

 

[sactownfan]

i dont know if anyone remembers my personal view on rambis.... but in case you forgot...

Rambis is a done nothing over rated piece of.... that has been lucky to ride the Kobe/Shaq train for all its worth... i dont care if he played for the Kings hes laker trash... overrated at its highest

(side note) he might be a nice/good guy however after he didn't get this job it seemed like he was a little baby about it and cried to the media

 

[Superman]

I never wanted him in the first place.

Westphal was always my choice and I got what I wanted lol

Rambis was my first choice. I'm satisfied with Westphal so far. I didn't expect anyone to come in and turn the Kings into a playoff team in one season. So my expectations for either would have been considerably low. But I have no complaints about Westphal. He's getting the most out of what he has, and that's satisfying.

 

[Sluggah]

i didn't really have a POV one way or the other during the hunt, but i must say, this is the happiest i've been with a coach since adelman

 

[hrdboild]

Rambis is a triangle offense guy and that always takes time for the players to learn. Minnesota also has a weak roster and they've been missing Kevin Love so far so it's not surprising they're losing as much as they are. In that sense it's going to take time before anyone can fairly judge his coaching performance -- but it's hard to imagine him being as good of a fit in Sacramento as Westphal has been so far.

It's hard to imagine any coach being as good of a fit with this team as Westphal has been. Call it serendipity. It's one of those things that makes perfect sense looking backwards. Of course we needed an established coach the players will respect. Of course we needed an easy-going guy who is willing to let the kids make some mistakes. Of course we needed a no-nonsense guy who isn't going to play mind games and yank minutes around without cause. Look at what Sergio Rodriguez said after that New Orleans game. Nate McMillan wouldn't let him play his game, and Westphal does. That's more or less what's working for all of these guys. Nate McMillan is a good coach, but his style doesn't work for everyone. Westphal might not be the best fit for every team, but he has been for ours.

Of course, the little spoiler inside of me can't help wondering how long it will be before we start complaining that our team can't get over the hump and win a championship and how long before the finger of blame finds it's way to Westphal and staff as "good but not good enough". Seems almost inevitable doesn't it? Hopefully we've learned better the past couple seasons.

 

[fnordius]

i didn't really have a POV one way or the other during the hunt, but i must say, this is the happiest i've been with a coach since adelman

Me too. By a very wide margin.

 

[AriesMar27]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Rambis is a triangle offense guy and that always takes time for the players to learn. Minnesota also has a weak roster and they've been missing Kevin Love so far so it's not surprising they're losing as much as they are. In that sense it's going to take time before anyone can fairly judge his coaching performance -- but it's hard to imagine him being as good of a fit in Sacramento as Westphal has been so far.

Kevin Love won't make that much of a difference, at least the way I see it. I could see it if he was a great player in his prime, but I don't think his return will suddenly cause Minnesota to start winning at a significantly higher rate. He is still quite young and has lots of time to prove me wrong, which I wouldnt mind lol I like him as a player.

 

[RaY Z]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

You can easily say the same with Westphal with what he has here. No Kevin Martin, our leading scorer and no Cisco, a potential 6th man off the bench.

I say its easily fair to compare both Westphal and Rambis.

 

[hrdboild]

Kevin Love won't make that much of a difference, at least the way I see it. I could see it if he was a great player in his prime, but I don't think his return will suddenly cause Minnesota to start winning at a significantly higher rate. He is still quite young and has lots of time to prove me wrong, which I wouldnt mind lol I like him as a player.

Well, I look at it this way: Kevin Love was third in the NBA in rebounds per 48 minutes last year and rebounding matters. I don't think he's a huge factor. Trading two key players from last year's team for a draft pick who is currently playing for Barcelona (to choose just one example) probably had a bigger impact on their current win-loss record. Drafting two point guards who are not Brandon Jennings was another factor. But it was a factor worth mentioning I think just as New Jersey's current 0-17 record is somewhat mitigated by the absence of Devin Harris for most of those games and Courtney Lee for half of them.

And yes, that does make Westphal's performance so far even more impressive.

 

[Chupacabra]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

The Kings have been without Martin and Garcia. Still the Kings have been superior to the Twolves. Rambis has very little headcoaching experience. Westphal has coached a team to the NBA finals.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I wanted Thibodeau. I still think Tom can be a good coach in these league, but Westphal has done an excellent job thus far.

 

[est.1999]

When I first saw the westphals name came up that's who I hoped we'd hire. Thank god

 

[Rockmeister]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love

So? The Kings haven't had Kevin and we have done ok. Anyways, I'm glad we have Westphal.

 

[ParniValjak]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

Huh?!

Martin and Garcia?!

 

[bajaden]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

By god your right. Its a good thing were not missing any important pieces. Just think, we could have had he who shall remain nameless. Oh wait, he would be missing, wouldn't he. I'm having so much fun....

 

[Prince_XY]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

IMO, it does not matter that Rambis is missing Rubio. Rubio is way too raw for the NBA anyways. He is overhyped and not that good. Actually Flynn and even Sergio Rodriguez are even way better players than him. Maybe if you were only referring to the absence of Love, then some people might actually agree with you.

Evans will never be equal to Rubio. Both are miles apart. Evans is just way ahead in terms of talent that he's miles away compared to Rubio in terms of their impact on game. There is just no comparison, more so if you were to compare missing Rubio and missing Martin.

 

[mac]

IMO, it does not matter that Rambis is missing Rubio. Rubio is way too raw for the NBA anyways. He is overhyped and not that good. Actually Flynn and even Sergio Rodriguez are even way better players than him. Maybe if you were only referring to the absence of Love, then some people might actually agree with you.

Evans will never be equal to Rubio. Both are miles apart. Evans is just way ahead in terms of talent that he's miles away compared to Rubio in terms of their impact on game. There is just no comparison, more so if you were to compare missing Rubio and missing Martin.

Prepare to be flamed...

 

[beb0p]

I never understood the Rambis fascination, not just in Sac but in the national media. Ok I do get it, he's supposed to be a Phil Jaz protege; but he is not. His last coaching stint was mediocre and I expect him to be just as mediocre in Minni.

Speaking of Rambis, he's taking one of the younger dynamic PG (Flynn) and put him in a system that doesn't suit him. And not just Flynn, the entire T-Wolves team looks lost. You can't just force the triangle on players who aren't suited to that system. I see flashback of Bill Cartwright forcing the triangle on the young Bulls, with similar result.

 

[Aenadin]

the triangle only works if you have a guy like jordan or he who i dare not mention the name (not rubio ok ).. it only works if you have a well experienced team sadly minny is young and they will struggle.

btw we are running the princeton still right? i dont want to sound like i didnt watch the kings before but... the glory days kings was a high scoring team yes? which would dictate that they are a fast uptempo team... but reading into the princeton offense its more like a slow ball offense... am i right that we were a high scoring team not because of the tempo but because of the high FG percentage?

 

[QoooooQ]

I haven't watched Minnesota so I have no clue about Rambis' work, but Westphal's impact has been incredible. The talent level of our individual players isn't that much higher than at the start of last season (with Salmons and Miller), but our hustle, mentality and teamwork are off the scales compared to last year. Now that's good coaching. I was hoping for this, but I can't believe the improvement happened immediately.

 

[LWP777]

its not fair to compare how they have done so far because rambis is playing without love and he who shall remain nameless... how good would our record be without evans? probably the same but thats not the point. he's missing a big part of his roster with those 2.

I'm new to this board so I'm still figuring out the personalities of the regular posters, but do you just take the devil's advocate approach on every topic or is it just me? I think sometimes you are spot on, but you are now making excuses for Rambis because he doesn't have Rubio and Love? He has 2 wins all year. I'm sorry but if you have Flynn and Jefferson you should have more than 2 wins.

I don't know if he was involved in any personnel decisions, but how about you hold Rambis accountable not only for his horrible start but also for the off season and draft pickups. They added THREE point guards to the roster (and one of them couldn't even play this year). Brilliant.

Westphal inherits a roster in complete mess. A roster than had zero chemistry last year, never played hard, and won 17 games all year. He gets 3 rookies and a couple of scrubs (Mason and May) to work with and somehow he gets the team to start believing in themselves, play hard, and hustle and scrap. He loses Garcia before the season and then Martin 5 games in. He almost pulls out victories against the Hornets on the road (with Chris Paul) and Atlanta (one of the best teams in the NBA) at home. He tinkers with the lineup to motivate certain players, namely Hawes, and sends a message that you have to earn your minutes. He takes Kenny Thomas out of the depths of NBA hell and makes him useful again. He doesn't use Rodriguez for half the season yet now he is a useful and motivated bench player. And, of course, he has Beno playing out of his mind to the point where he probably actually has some trade value now. He's got Noc having fun and happy to be here now. I even saw Noc do a flying chest bump last game with a teammate during a timeout. Did you see that last year?

Has the schedule been soft? Yes, it's been on the easy side but the team has taken care of business. Without Martin and Garcia, I guarantee you the "experts" would have predicted a 3-15, maybe 4-14 kind of a start. They are 8-8.

Give the guy some credit.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I'm new to this board so I'm still figuring out the personalities of the regular posters, but do you just take the devil's advocate approach on every topic or is it just me? I think sometimes you are spot on, but you are now making excuses for Rambis because he doesn't have Rubio and Love? He has 2 wins all year. I'm sorry but if you have Flynn and Jefferson you should have more than 2 wins.

I don't know if he was involved in any personnel decisions, but how about you hold Rambis accountable not only for his horrible start but also for the off season and draft pickups. They added THREE point guards to the roster (and one of them couldn't even play this year). Brilliant.

Westphal inherits a roster in complete mess. A roster than had zero chemistry last year, never played hard, and won 17 games all year. He gets 3 rookies and a couple of scrubs (Mason and May) to work with and somehow he gets the team to start believing in themselves, play hard, and hustle and scrap. He loses Garcia before the season and then Martin 5 games in. He almost pulls out victories against the Hornets on the road (with Chris Paul) and Atlanta (one of the best teams in the NBA) at home. He tinkers with the lineup to motivate certain players, namely Hawes, and sends a message that you have to earn your minutes. He takes Kenny Thomas out of the depths of NBA hell and makes him useful again. He doesn't use Rodriguez for half the season yet now he is a useful and motivated bench player. And, of course, he has Beno playing out of his mind to the point where he probably actually has some trade value now. He's got Noc having fun and happy to be here now. I even saw Noc do a flying chest bump last game with a teammate during a timeout. Did you see that last year?

Has the schedule been soft? Yes, it's been on the easy side but the team has taken care of business. Without Martin and Garcia, I guarantee you the "experts" would have predicted a 3-15, maybe 4-14 kind of a start. They are 8-8.

Give the guy some credit.

Great post. Rambis needs to be held accountable. Lawrence Frank was.

 

[AriesMar27]

By god your right. Its a good thing were not missing any important pieces. Just think, we could have had he who shall remain nameless. Oh wait, he would be missing, wouldn't he. I'm having so much fun....

and we would all be saying how we dont have he who shall remain nameless and how much better we would be with him. he who shall remain nameless and love are more important to minny than martin and garcia are to us. we lost players where we have a logjam of players... we replaced a 24ppg scorer for a 20 ppg scorer. garcia hasnt been missed especially with greene, casspi and nocioni playing well.

minny not having love is like us not having thompson. tell me we would have the same record without him? they are missing their 2nd yr pf, we have ours... they are missing their starting (destined to be an all-star) pg he who shall remain nameless... luckily for us beno has stepped up. their team isnt nearly as good as ours either.

 

[LWP777]

and we would all be saying how we dont have he who shall remain nameless and how much better we would be with him. he who shall remain nameless and love are more important to minny than martin and garcia are to us. we lost players where we have a logjam of players... we replaced a 24ppg scorer for a 20 ppg scorer. garcia hasnt been missed especially with greene, casspi and nocioni playing well.

minny not having love is like us not having thompson. tell me we would have the same record without him? they are missing their 2nd yr pf, we have ours... they are missing their starting (destined to be an all-star) pg he who shall remain nameless... luckily for us beno has stepped up. their team isnt nearly as good as ours either.

So how come Rambis has been unable to get other players to step up in the absence of Rubio and Love? Westphal has Kenny Fricking Thomas motivated!

You honestly believe that Rubio is a future all-star? Haha, that's funny.

 

[AriesMar27]

I'm new to this board so I'm still figuring out the personalities of the regular posters, but do you just take the devil's advocate approach on every topic or is it just me? I think sometimes you are spot on, but you are now making excuses for Rambis because he doesn't have Rubio and Love? He has 2 wins all year. I'm sorry but if you have Flynn and Jefferson you should have more than 2 wins.

I don't know if he was involved in any personnel decisions, but how about you hold Rambis accountable not only for his horrible start but also for the off season and draft pickups. They added THREE point guards to the roster (and one of them couldn't even play this year). Brilliant.

Westphal inherits a roster in complete mess. A roster than had zero chemistry last year, never played hard, and won 17 games all year. He gets 3 rookies and a couple of scrubs (Mason and May) to work with and somehow he gets the team to start believing in themselves, play hard, and hustle and scrap. He loses Garcia before the season and then Martin 5 games in. He almost pulls out victories against the Hornets on the road (with Chris Paul) and Atlanta (one of the best teams in the NBA) at home. He tinkers with the lineup to motivate certain players, namely Hawes, and sends a message that you have to earn your minutes. He takes Kenny Thomas out of the depths of NBA hell and makes him useful again. He doesn't use Rodriguez for half the season yet now he is a useful and motivated bench player. And, of course, he has Beno playing out of his mind to the point where he probably actually has some trade value now. He's got Noc having fun and happy to be here now. I even saw Noc do a flying chest bump last game with a teammate during a timeout. Did you see that last year?

Has the schedule been soft? Yes, it's been on the easy side but the team has taken care of business. Without Martin and Garcia, I guarantee you the "experts" would have predicted a 3-15, maybe 4-14 kind of a start. They are 8-8.

Give the guy some credit.

im not an expert and i guessed that we would be around 8-8 by the end of november... whats their excuse? love means more to minny than martin does to us... garcia would be filler no matter what team he is on.

im not making excuses for rambis, im looking at what his team looks like and giving my opinion on the situation. he's missing players that are more important to minny than we have missing on our team. can you even name minnys roster without looking it up? they suck... tey arent a team that would be 8-8 if they had westphal instead of rambis... but our team would still be close to 8-8 if not higher with rambis... westphal is the same guy who started mason and may at the beginning of the season. we couldve beaten okc and the hornets if he had manned up and started hawes and maybe a pg.... we couldve won those games...

have you looked at our schedule? we won one road game, utah... they are all of 9-7 right now. they have won one more game than we have. have you seen minnys schedule? they've played denver twice, cleveland, boston(lost by 2), portland twice, dallas and the clippers twice(lost by 4 and 5 points)

if we had they schedule we wouldnt be at 8-8... again we've won 1 road game... and the wins at home were against bad teams, they've played the cavs, suns and celtics at home... we wouldve lost those games... as well as westphal has been, our roster and schedule have been a lot more beneficial to this team than our coach. we were better than our record last season.