Westphal on 1140

[VF21]

20-30%??? wasnt there a "who do you want the kings to draft poll?" i could have sworn over 70% wanted rubio...just a little bit more than the 20-30% you mentioned. i agree that the coaches and GMs might be a better judge of talent then us fans, but they also have their jobs to worry about. if you have 1 or 2 years left on your contract, would you take a player that would be good right away, or a player that would be great 3 or 4 years down the line?

FYI - Over 71% of the votes in the who do you want poll before the draft were for Rubio. It should be noted, however, that this poll was conducted a few days before the draft and might not have been reflective of people whose attitude had begun to change.

 

[Gary]

sorry I was using the post draft poll http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32582

I didn't use the other because it was poll for like 7 guys. this poll was for Evans vs. Rubio

That's who is going to be better.. Not who do you want.. I almost even put Evans as a better all around player, but ended up voting Rubio because I feel he makes the team as a whole better than Evans could.

Makes no difference because we don't have Rubio. But that was a different question entirely being asked. Plus a lot of people said they would have rather had Rubio but were happy to get Evans.. Of course me not being one of them, but you get the picture.

 

[swisshh]

I really disagree Evans is the safer pick. He'll probably have more pressure to produce right away and because of that the coach and gm will catch a lot more heat if he doesn't come out with guns blazing.

Drafting Rubio would've given them a longer window of mediocrity by most fans. I also think that Evans ceiling is a lot higher than Rubio because he has natural ability that I don't think Rubio can develop, while Evans can hopefully develop a consistent jumper show he has the ability to pass the ball well.

I actually feel it's the other way about natural ability. The vision and mental edge Rubio has is not really teachable.

As for the longer window, I think you're right in that fans would wait. I am not sure management would and I am not sure management thinks the fans would wait. I get the sense from their PR and actions they don't have as much respect for the fans basketball IQ as they should. I would have no problem losing for a few years if it seemed the team had a consistent direction.

The whole 'get better faster' part of this draft just doesn't make sense when I try to unwind it. It makes me feel like when the Kings were trying to rebuild while still being a contender or playoff team. Trying to do two opposites at once. If you want to get quick improvement, you trade the picks for proven players. If you want to go young and rebuild, you draft the guy who can make your team great. Some people believe Evans can be a star, but even many of those people follow up that statement with caution that Rubio could develop into a once in a life type of player.

 

[Entity]

once in a life time. nah. I think most figure his ceiling to be Jason Williams. Lebron is once in a lifetime. Jordan once in a lifetime. Ricky Rubio not so much.

 

[Entity]

That's who is going to be better.. Not who do you want.. I almost even put Evans as a better all around player, but ended up voting Rubio because I feel he makes the team as a whole better than Evans could.

Makes no difference because we don't have Rubio. But that was a different question entirely being asked. Plus a lot of people said they would have rather had Rubio but were happy to get Evans.. Of course me not being one of them, but you get the picture.

Ah your rage has settled a bit. I figure by the start of summer league you will be thinking like me.

 

[swisshh]

once in a life time. nah. I think most figure his ceiling to be Jason Williams. Lebron is once in a lifetime. Jordan once in a lifetime. Ricky Rubio not so much.

dude

come on

 

[Entity]

What part of his game do you see being better than jason williams.

 

[Gary]

Ah your rage has settled a bit. I figure by the start of summer league you will be thinking like me.

Nah, Evans is a SG. I have seen enough BBall in my life to know the difference

 

[VF21]

Entity - Rubio's court vision is already better than Jason's could ever think of being.

Gary - I think your avatar is way over the line. You may have wanted Rubio but I really hate to see Kings fans showing so much vitriol towards a new King. The kid is on our team and I think we all want him to succeed. I simply don't understand why you're projecting your disappointment into that kind of thing... Players do visit message boards on occasion, you know. I'd sure like Evans to at least feel that he'll get a fair chance to prove himself from the loyal Kings fans at KF, you know?

/rant

 

[Rockmeister]

FYI - Over 71% of the votes in the who do you want poll before the draft were for Rubio. It should be noted, however, that this poll was conducted a few days before the draft and might not have been reflective of people whose attitude had begun to change.

My mind didn't change. I still wanted Rubio.

 

[Gary]

What part of his game do you see being better than jason williams.

Passing, vision, overall bball IQ, defense, ect ect.

 

[Gary]

E$ntity - Rubio's court vision is already better than Jason's could ever think of being.

Gary - I think your avatar is way over the line. You may have wanted Rubio but I really hate to see Kings fans showing so much vitriol towards a new King. The kid is on our team and I think we all want him to succeed. I simply don't understand why you're projecting your disappointment into that kind of thing...

Then can I do Petrie instead?

 

[Entity]

Nah, Evans is a SG. I have seen enough BBall in my life to know the difference

well then we have 2 sg's playing at the same time this year. what do I know I have only been watching basketball for 3 days now. heh i still chuckle at statement made by ppl refering to themselves as all knowing about basketball. Yet they have never coached, played, or been a GM in the NBA. and guys that have thinks Evans fits the bill just fine.

 

[swisshh]

the puppy is awesome though

maybe have the puppy biting petrie in the butt or something

 

[Vlade4GM]

well then we have 2 sg's playing at the same time this year. what do I know I have only been watching basketball for 3 days now. heh i still chuckle at statement made by ppl refering to themselves as all knowing about basketball. Yet they have never coached, played, or been a GM in the NBA. and guys that have thinks Evans fits the bill just fine.

I'd just like to point out that Isiah Thomas fits all those criteria

 

[VF21]

Then can I do Petrie instead?

Yeah, I think that's fair. I may not agree with it, but I don't think Petrie expected everyone to be ecstatic with the pick, especially at first.

thanks.

 

[Gary]

well then we have 2 sg's playing at the same time this year. what do I know I have only been watching basketball for 3 days now. heh i still chuckle at statement made by ppl refering to themselves as all knowing about basketball. Yet they have never coached, played, or been a GM in the NBA. and guys that have thinks Evans fits the bill just fine.

It's much easier as a hobbyist scout for both high school and college to get information and watch games. You should see my HDD drive. Memphis kind of has a special place in our families heart being that's where my dad and his brother attended college. Not that I wouldn't have watched a lot of Memphis games, but I listened to a die hard like my dad when he was giving me the low down on what he thought of Evans. Last year him and I fought tooth and nails over who we thought was better (I went with Beasley) and sure enough I lost. My dad was raving over that guy named Derrick Rose while I was being incorrect over a guy named Beasley.

 

[Gary]

I'd just like to point out that Isiah Thomas fits all those criteria

Yah heh.. There are bad picks every year, and there are picks that went under the radar.

Last year while being happy with Thompson I said I would give the Kings an F on the draft (or maybe it was a D) because there were players that were pretty much bought like Chalmers, Jordan, ect. Although they weren't available at our pick I am sure there could have been something done to get either one of those two players.

 

[Entity]

I'd just like to point out that Isiah Thomas fits all those criteria

cool so 1 vs. how many millions of fans that are wrong.

just wondering when do you guys get past this. I mean come the middle of the season is it still going to be Rubio this and Rubio that?

I had 2 girls. My wife got pregnant and I wanted a boy. I had another girl. I accepted it for what it was and embraced and loved her as much as anything. Sometimes you got to accept what is and embrace it may bring you joy never thought possible.

btw a year and a half later I had a little boy.

 

[steelevt]

Gary - I think your avatar is way over the line. You may have wanted Rubio but I really hate to see Kings fans showing so much vitriol towards a new King. The kid is on our team and I think we all want him to succeed. I simply don't understand why you're projecting your disappointment into that kind of thing... Players do visit message boards on occasion, you know. I'd sure like Evans to at least feel that he'll get a fair chance to prove himself from the loyal Kings fans at KF, you know?

/rant

as much as i wanted rubio i have to agree. a lot of us wanted rubio, and have to defend our choice. seeing evans succeed will make us eat our words, especially if rubio doesnt pan out. im sure all the pro evans posters are dying to see rubio become the next darko, and deep down inside pro rubio fans are wishing rubio does way better than evans to support their thinking. but sometimes you have to swallow your pride and support the team. truthfully, im hoping they both succeed

 

[Aenadin]

kings fans wanted a ruby

geoff found them a diamond..



ill trust petrie with evans pick.. just wait till minny waives rubios rights and we pick em up lol

 

[swisshh]

just wondering when do you guys get past this. I mean come the middle of the season is it still going to be Rubio this and Rubio that?

It will probably be this way for years. Detroit fans still probably talk about not drafting Carmello. When you make tight controversial choices in the draft, it links the two players and teams for years. It won't go away unless both players turn out to be busts.

 

[Entity]

It will probably be this way for years. Detroit fans still probably talk about not drafting Carmello. When you make tight controversial choices in the draft, it links the two players and teams for years. It won't go away unless both players turn out to be busts.

oh. Or if Evans succeed and rubio doesn't i guess that shuts you up. if Evans fails and Rubio succeeds. I will eat crow. but I think my plate will stay featherless.

 

[Vlade4GM]

cool so 1 vs. how many millions of fans that are wrong.

just wondering when do you guys get past this. I mean come the middle of the season is it still going to be Rubio this and Rubio that?

I had 2 girls. My wife got pregnant and I wanted a boy. I had another girl. I accepted it for what it was and embraced and loved her as much as anything. Sometimes you got to accept what is and embrace it may bring you joy never thought possible.

btw a year and a half later I had a little boy.

Dude, it's been one day. Personally, I don't even think I've been that bad at all. I've already said plenty of times that I like Evans, I just have a hard time getting excited about him when I think we passed up on a much better prospect. The reason I go on and on is because how much people are baselessly bashing Rubio in order to support their position. I respect the position of Evans over Rubio, but only if it's intelligently and rationally argued.

 

[NewArena]

Rubio being a once in a lifetime player is laughable but i wont get into that. Can some of you please give Evans a chance. 48 hours of bashing him should be enough.

 

[ReturnOfTheKings]

"The overall theme of the draft is toughness."

Finally! I was stuck on Rubio like a lot of folks, but as the draft continued I started to realize it was obvious the Kings were working to make this team tougher and more aggressive. I like what Westphal is doing. We've been soft for too long.

 

[Vlade4GM]

"The overall theme of the draft is toughness."

Finally! I was stuck on Rubio like a lot of folks, but as the draft continued I started to realize it was obvious the Kings were working to make this team tougher and more aggressive. I like what Westphal is doing. We've been soft for too long.

Both terms I'd personally apply to Rubio, especially the latter.

 

[VF21]

Thanks to all for some interesting debate - and for proving once again that people can have pretty significant discussions without them turning into flame fests. You guys rock.

 

[KingKong]

I've listened to quite a bit of different opinions today, and there are a number of them who have come right out and said Tyreke Evans could end up being the second best player out of this draft. I'm actually feeling even better about this pick than I did yesterday...

Exactly how I feel.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

I actually feel it's the other way about natural ability. The vision and mental edge Rubio has is not really teachable.

As for the longer window, I think you're right in that fans would wait. I am not sure management would and I am not sure management thinks the fans would wait. I get the sense from their PR and actions they don't have as much respect for the fans basketball IQ as they should. I would have no problem losing for a few years if it seemed the team had a consistent direction.

The whole 'get better faster' part of this draft just doesn't make sense when I try to unwind it. It makes me feel like when the Kings were trying to rebuild while still being a contender or playoff team. Trying to do two opposites at once. If you want to get quick improvement, you trade the picks for proven players. If you want to go young and rebuild, you draft the guy who can make your team great. Some people believe Evans can be a star, but even many of those people follow up that statement with caution that Rubio could develop into a once in a life type of player.

I really didn't see this pick as a "get better faster" pick. I think it's a pick the guy with the highest ceiling. When you have the worst record in the league it's not about drafting for needs, its about getting a potential superstar.

Most superstars have incredible 1-1 ability and are typically unguardable by one player. Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Dirk, even Deron Williams. All these guys can get good looks at the end of games for themselves or team mates because one player can't stop them and they all do it in different ways. Kobe, Lebron, and Wade with superior athleticism, CP3 with unreal ballhandling and quickness, and Dirk and Deron with superior size for their position.

I think Evans can fit into that category, he's huge for a PG (height and weight) and is nearly unstoppable off the dribble. Having him and KMart on the court at the same time will create matchup nightmares. Im my mind this pick was no short term fix but made in the long-term interest of the franchise.

And I haven't really heard anyone say Rubio is a once in a generation player, let alone once in a lifetime, only that he has potential to be a really good/great NBA player. And even those experts admit he has holes in his game and needs to improve in multiple areas.