Entity
Hall of Famer
wow now thats some logic for ya. lame and simpleminded but logic none the less.
Westphal on 1140
- Thread starter Kingster
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wow now thats some logic for ya. lame and simpleminded but logic none the less.
bozzwell
Starter
I'll remind you - Darko wowed Detroit in the workouts. Yi killed one-on-one with a chair. I don't really care whether you workour on your own, against your peers or against a chair, the workout is a sales job and buyers are suckers if you allow work out to determine your choice. Or do you recommend buying "extended warranty" at the Best Buy checkout?
Entity
Hall of Famer
Darko was pretty much the same way. the problem with him was it continued. he also wouldn't workout once he joined the team.
very poor work ethic.
Kings Faithful
Starter
As time goes by I'm starting to like and understand why we picked Evans over Rubio more and more.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Got it. this a youtube video of a guy that in the video looks like he can get to the lane anytime he wants. dunk on people and has great range. Looks like a skinny lebron. Now this isn't even his best college video this is actually a video from his NBA games that he barely played in. the subject Quincy Douby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_wytDSplA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_wytDSplA
bozzwell
Starter
Youtube "highlights" are what you've seen. Of course, no one should ever draft a player on a highlight reel, no matter how many views/ratings it got on the youtube. What is beyond doubt though, is that Rubio has been running a professional, competitive team for years now. They won games. They lost games. They pushed around huge franchises in Spain and Euroleage or were pushed around by other talented professional teams. This is not debatable. This is not Darko coming off the bench for middling team in a puny league and Darko getting smacked by nobodies _but_Darko_working_out_great_for_Dumars.
The two do not compare on any level. Rubio's already as good as Kirk Heinrich, the only question remaining is what is his upside?
Gary
All-Star
It's important because you have a bunch of 1 on 1 isolation if you don't have someone that can pass the ball. These guys you named above are all better passers than Evans is now. There are a few that aren't guys I would want, but most are good PGs.
The last thing I want to see this year is 4 guys standing around while 1 guy does his thing.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I'm curious, who is saying youtube videos are proof of anything?
Entity
Hall of Famer
well I hope its not based on his olympic performances. Sure nobody will admit it. But i'd imagine half of the ppl bitching about not getting rubio only know him from those videos on your tube.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
You're arguing the merits of youtube videos in evaluating a player, yet no one is arguing otherwise. That's called a strawman argument.
ElRey
Starter
Gary, I'm going to have to differ... when you say "these guys you named above are all better passers than Evans is now." How do we know? Evans hasn't even played a game in the NBA yet...give him a chance. I was just making the point that you dont have to have that prodigal passer on your team. If Rubio can only pass well, then he's going to a very limited player. You need to be able to penetrate and create shots for others. If you're mostly a passer, then you need the other players on the team to be really good. I haven't seen much from Rubio to suggest that he's going to be able to break down NBA pt guards, whereas Evans has in those PG workouts.
ElRey
Starter
Rubio's youtube videos are just awesome... they made me all excited. But when I actually saw him play in the olympics, he just looked like a good prospect with some excellent passing skills that plays beyond his age. Just not a sensation.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
I wouldn't let the Ron Artest experience sour you on a player like Evans. Artest was an anomaly. He also had a low offensive basketball IQ and was very selfish looking for his shot. Evans is not a true PG and probably never will be. However, it is way too early to start comparing him to Artest.
bozzwell
Starter
Yes I did - I do agree with you, without reserve, that you do not ever draft (or not draft for that matter) a player on the strength of highlight reel. But you're using that as some sort of evidence - as in "there is only a draft reel - therefore this kid cannot be any/that good". Rubio is already a player in his own right. Reel or no reel. The worst case scenario with him is poor man's Jason Kidd (can't shoot that well, but will dish 7/24 and will defend and has a lanky body/size for a PG). I fail to see how is that a bad thing. You don't seem to be willing to acknowledge or be aware of that, hence the poke.
I'll give you this though - with Kingsfans (here at least) favoring safety of Evans pick 2:1, and the history of "missunderstandings" between Euro-style Kings fans and more traditional NBA fans and somewhat posioned relationships, it's probably for the best that we drafted Evans. I kind of like the kid anyway and he is wearing _13_ (my old squad number). But still, that doesn't change the fact that Rubio has higher risk/reward. I like rewards. I like a shot at greatness, and I understand the risks.
Entity
Hall of Famer
OK. #1 i don't agree in the risk/reward part. I do think evans is lower risk but I also don't believe that at full potential for both that Rubio is the better.
#2 I don't like the fact that just becuase some people wanted Rubio that they feel the need to bash Evans as if he is a bust. And not giving him a chance to prove himself as a pg before dismissing him.
not saying that was you. but others have done that. I know we here bash players from time to time like KT, Beno, and players from the past but this guy was drafted last night and led his team to the final 4 a few months back and he gets bashed by the fans because they wanted a different style pg?
#2 I don't like the fact that just becuase some people wanted Rubio that they feel the need to bash Evans as if he is a bust. And not giving him a chance to prove himself as a pg before dismissing him.
not saying that was you. but others have done that. I know we here bash players from time to time like KT, Beno, and players from the past but this guy was drafted last night and led his team to the final 4 a few months back and he gets bashed by the fans because they wanted a different style pg?
bozzwell
Starter
OK, I am cool with that. I don't dislike Evans. To the contrary, I think he will be a good NBA pro at the very least. I like that he made a big deal of showcasing himself, selling himself to the team(s) and that he was very upfront about his history (cousin/drive by incident). Everything points in the right direction. I still don't think he's a better pick at 4 then Rubio, or a better deal then trading down and getting Teague for example. And if he turns out to be more likeable, better John Salmons, my head might completely explode. I think that's reasonable and by the same token, you don't need to go negative on Rubio to make your point about Evans.
Gary
All-Star
Just like I hope we are not grading Evans on the TyReaking egg he laid against Syracuse. The one Where Flynn out played him when they went 1v1 almost the whole game.
Just saying.. You cannot really judge someone on one game Rubio played well against the other teams in the Olympics in the limited minutes he was given. Also, he was basically a high school senior when he played int he Olympics.
in re: to what you said above, you had been bashing Rubio about the same as I had been bashing Evans. It's not a big deal. We have personal preferences. I don't think Evans will make a good PG based on how he's played up to this point. You don't think Rubio will either. That's the good thing about time. We got plenty of time to see who is right, and who is wrong.
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OnYouLikeGlue
Bench
I really disagree Evans is the safer pick. He'll probably have more pressure to produce right away and because of that the coach and gm will catch a lot more heat if he doesn't come out with guns blazing.
Drafting Rubio would've given them a longer window of mediocrity by most fans. I also think that Evans ceiling is a lot higher than Rubio because he has natural ability that I don't think Rubio can develop, while Evans can hopefully develop a consistent jumper show he has the ability to pass the ball well.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
And others are doing the same exact thing with Rubio.
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Entity
Hall of Famer
There is a difference. Rubio is not a king. Its like bashing marbury
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I don't see how that difference is relevant at all. I don't see how you can complain that one side is bashing Evans to try to make their point, but then give the other side a pass for doing the exact same thing. Either it's faulty logic or it isn't, makes no difference what team they're on. Also, I define bashing as baseless negative criticism.
bozzwell
Starter
That's a very interesting point that can possible completely disprove my main argument (about Evans being safe/safer pick). I'll have to think about it. In the meantime, why I would still have to disagree with you is this - Evans (or Harden if he dropped, maybe even Curry if we reached) is safer pick then Rubio precisely because he can come in and make his mark right away. Rubio would need Martin, JT and Spencer to "come along" on the curve as well and yes, it would take time. Evans can get his own, starting this November at Arco. GP and Westphal are operating on 1-2 year contracts with a team made up of kids none of whome are named Lebron or Chris Paul or Dwight Howard.
Entity
Hall of Famer
eeh its gray. here it is in a nutshell
I am a Kings fan. The Coach, GM, and owners of the Kings drafted Evans. I agree with them as I wanted Evans over Rubio. Those coaches and GM's live basketball. They don't work a 9 to 5 then get on the net or watch some games from time to time. 20 or 30 percent of the Kings fans wanted Rubio.
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SacTownGrantFan
Bench
Whatever else may be made of yesterday's events, one thing that is very evident is that our front office and coaches believe in Evans, and believe HARD. It was the closest thing to enthusiastic I have ever heard from Petrie, and Westphal sounded the same way (don't get me going about Gavin). They really truly think he's going to be a star. And at a certain point you just have to go with that. They may be right, they may be wrong, but the pick was made for the right reasons (with the single proviso that he wowed them in workouts, which as you recall was how Douby got his job too -- body of work has to matter more than a good showing in 1 on none or 3 on 3). If they are right then all of Gavin's ranting might actually look prophetic.
Point being they really truly think they have a tiger by the tail here, and you can't ask somebody to make the popular pick when they really think they've found a special player instead.
Pun intended?
Kings Faithful
Starter
I wanted Rubio more, but since the Kings passed on him I believe Evans will indeed be the better player now and in the long run. Despite all the fans wanting Rubio, Rubio wanting Sacramento, and him being the perfect fit they still passed on him and I'm pretty sure they had some damn good reasons.
steelevt
All-Star
20-30%??? wasnt there a "who do you want the kings to draft poll?" i could have sworn over 70% wanted rubio...just a little bit more than the 20-30% you mentioned. i agree that the coaches and GMs might be a better judge of talent then us fans, but they also have their jobs to worry about. if you have 1 or 2 years left on your contract, would you take a player that would be good right away, or a player that would be great 3 or 4 years down the line?
Entity
Hall of Famer
sorry I was using the post draft poll http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32582
I didn't use the other because it was poll for like 7 guys. this poll was for Evans vs. Rubio
I didn't use the other because it was poll for like 7 guys. this poll was for Evans vs. Rubio
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