Westphal and the "we don’t get caught up in who’s the point guard" philosiphy

[SacTownKid]

I am more concerned with his claim that a PF in our system is radically different and he is looking to play Outlaw and Donte at both 3 and 4. C'mon now!

Actually makes some sense if they can hit their 3's. Tremendously spread floor there.

 

[ParniValjak]

Actually makes some sense if they can hit their 3's. Tremendously spread floor there.

I prefer my big man to bang inside but each to their own I guess.

As for guards Vs defined positions, it absolutely makes sense if you are running your offense through your big man. All you need is some ball handlers to bring the ball up the court, dump it to Cousins and go to their spot.

On the PF point, how exactly would that approach work with Hayes and Cousins, unless your plan for Cousins is to play further out from the basket and jack up 3 pointers?! This "system" was in place when we signed Hayes so it really makes no sense.

 

[SacTownKid]

It sounds this way from what I've been hearing.

The problems with this is that it puts a lot of pressure on Cousins. Even when Vlade adn Webber were our offensive organizers, that is still two people. You also had Christie, Brad Miller and Mike Bibby who could all handle the job of making sure the offensive set is run.

The Kings don't appear to have anyone reliable enough to do this beyond Cousins.

It's all system based, making Cousins a passer will just make the game easier for him since he's far more offensively talented as a scorer than Vlade or Miller and is really more on par with Webber in that area. Also, don't underrate the abilities of Evans, Fredette, Salmons, and even Thornton. That team did certain things better, and this team could do other things better, like score in the paint off of individual offense and post play.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Honestly, I think everyone on this team could be a willing passer. Save for maybe Evans. I mean, it'd be awesome if Cousins and someone else could take the role of Vlade and Webber, but on that old team, everyone was unselfish.

Tyreke needs to understand he doesn't have to carry the team on his back. I was reading on the NBA team previews (Take that for what it's worth, I know a lot of it is bunk), and the consensus was that there needs to be MUCH more ball sharing, like the old days.

 

[Kingster]

I am more concerned with his claim that a PF in our system is radically different and he is looking to play Outlaw and Donte at both 3 and 4. C'mon now!

Outlaw looks good at the 4. I agree with Reynolds on this. He doesn't have the ball handling or creative ability at the 3, but he does have the length at the four, and he can shoot outside as a stretch 4. Put him at the 4, then have Kirilenko at the 3 (I wish), wow, what an athletic lineup you'd have.

 

[ParniValjak]

Outlaw looks good at the 4. I agree with Reynolds on this. He doesn't have the ball handling or creative ability at the 3, but he does have the length at the four, and he can shoot outside as a stretch 4. Put him at the 4, then have Kirilenko at the 3 (I wish), wow, what an athletic lineup you'd have.

That might work against GSW but try that against legitimate teams that have a real front court and you will get killed! Zebo-Gasol, Bynum-Gasol, Jordan-Griffen etc... Would chew him up and spit him out!

 

[Bricklayer]

Outlaw looks good at the 4. I agree with Reynolds on this. He doesn't have the ball handling or creative ability at the 3, but he does have the length at the four, and he can shoot outside as a stretch 4. Put him at the 4, then have Kirilenko at the 3 (I wish), wow, what an athletic lineup you'd have.

Having the length of a 4 is irelevant if you don't have the STRENGTH of a 4.

Seriously, smallball is just dumb. As are its advocates. Its won exactly jack and squat in this league and you still get dips drooling over it after half a century of failure. Duh.

REBOUNDING. Big thing for a 4. Outlaw can't. Post defense. Big thing too. Outlaw can't. Not against a full grown PF. Post offense...well I won't go on.

Now he is versatile enoguh that he can given you some spot minutes there in certian matchups, to change pace. But day to day PF duty for a 210lb natural SF is so dumb only Jerry could advocate it. Reke is more powerful than the guy. And of course the thing is, as usual Jerry is a little confused anyway. During Outlaw's time in Portland the starting PFs were Zach Randolph, and then Lamarcus Aldridge. Shareef was there for part of year even. There weren't a whole bunch of PF minutes left lying around, although to be sure Outlaw would notch a few most games.

 

[Kingster]

Having the length of a 4 is irelevant if you don't have the STRENGTH of a 4.

Seriously, smallball is just dumb. As are its advocates. Its won exactly jack and squat in this league and you still get dips drooling over it after half a century of failure. Duh.

REBOUNDING. Big thing for a 4. Outlaw can't. Post defense. Big thing too. Outlaw can't. Not against a full grown PF. Post offense...well I won't go on.

Now he is versatile enoguh that he can given you some spot minutes there in certian matchups, to change pace. But day to day PF duty for a 210lb natural SF is so dumb only Jerry could advocate it. Reke is more powerful than the guy. And of course the thing is, as usual Jerry is a little confused anyway. During Outlaw's time in Portland the starting PFs were Zach Randolph, and then Lamarcus Aldridge. Shareef was there for part of year even. There weren't a whole bunch of PF minutes left lying around, although to be sure Outlaw would notch a few most games.

As you know, the game has changed. You don't have that many power forward with back-to-the-basket power games. He'll have more quickness and just as much length as the power forwards he faces. He will be great for covering the stretch power forwards. His ability to alter and block shots from the weak side will more than make up for his deficiency in strength on those rare occassions where he faces a skilled low post power forward. Will he have issues with Zach Randolph? Absolutely. But there aren't many Zach Randolphs in this league. (Who exactly does defend Randolph well, anyway?). And maybe you put a Hickson on Zach and then have Outlaw come from the weak side to help out in the paint. A poster mentions Gasol above. Gasol isn't exactly Hercules, so maybe it's worth a try putting Outlaw on him. We might see in a few days. In any case, I'll take the tradeoffs at the 4 rather than have Outlaw chasing 3s on a regular basis.

 

[Bricklayer]

As you know, the game has changed. You don't have that many power forward with back-to-the-basket power games. He'll have more quickness and just as much length as the power forwards he faces. He will be great for covering the stretch power forwards. His ability to alter and block shots from the weak side will more than make up for his deficiency in strength on those rare occassions where he faces a skilled low post power forward. Will he have issues with Zach Randolph? Absolutely. But there aren't many Zach Randolphs in this league. (Who exactly does defend Randolph well, anyway?). And maybe you put a Hickson on Zach and then have Outlaw come from the weak side to help out in the paint. A poster mentions Gasol above. Gasol isn't exactly Hercules, so maybe it's worth a try putting Outlaw on him. We might see in a few days. In any case, I'll take the tradeoffs at the 4 rather than have Outlaw chasing 3s on a regular basis.

Indeed, in our conference alone nobody has PFs who actually play like PFs. Well, I mean besides the Warriors (Lee), Lakers (Gasol), Clippers (Griffin), Blazers (Aldridge (a recent development)), Jazz (Jefferson/Milsap/Favors), Mavs (Dirk), Spurs (Duncan, or Blair), Hornets (Landry), Rockets (Scola), Grizzlies (Zach), Wolves (Love).

But if are lucky enoguh to be playing the smallballers in Phx/Den, or the Thunder with Ibaka we might be ok, so sounds like a plan.

 

[swisshh]

Are we dumb enough to try to play smallball without a PG to run it?

Probably.

 

[Kingster]

Indeed, in our conference alone nobody has PFs who actually play like PFs. Well, I mean besides the Warriors (Lee), Lakers (Gasol), Clippers (Griffin), Blazers (Aldridge (a recent development)), Jazz (Jefferson/Milsap/Favors), Mavs (Dirk), Spurs (Duncan, or Blair), Hornets (Landry), Rockets (Scola), Grizzlies (Zach), Wolves (Love).

But if are lucky enoguh to be playing the smallballers in Phx/Den, or the Thunder with Ibaka we might be ok, so sounds like a plan.

Ok, let's look at those guys. Lee is not a typical back to the basket guy. Gasol certainly has that aspect to his game, but he's not a power guy. Griffin does much more stuff off the dribble to use his quickness than back to the basket. Aldridge has back to the basket, but he's not a power guy either. Jefferson, yes, he is a power back to the basket guy. Millsap isn't. Favors to young yet. Dirk is not a power guy. Landry I'm not worried about. Scola, yes, he has power back to the basket, Zach, yes, Love, yes. So we've got Zach, Love, and Jefferson to concern ourselves with because they are power back to the basket types. I'd take my chances with Outlaw guarding the rest, at least until they prove me wrong.

 

[Kingster]

Indeed, in our conference alone nobody has PFs who actually play like PFs. Well, I mean besides the Warriors (Lee), Lakers (Gasol), Clippers (Griffin), Blazers (Aldridge (a recent development)), Jazz (Jefferson/Milsap/Favors), Mavs (Dirk), Spurs (Duncan, or Blair), Hornets (Landry), Rockets (Scola), Grizzlies (Zach), Wolves (Love).

But if are lucky enoguh to be playing the smallballers in Phx/Den, or the Thunder with Ibaka we might be ok, so sounds like a plan.

Only Zach, Jefferson, Scola and Love would concern me. They all have 1) power and 2) a back to the basket game. The others don't. Guys like Gasol and Aldridge, for example, have back to the basket games, but aren't power players. Other guys on the list don't have back to the basket games to speak of.