Damn, I don't remember that at all. I wouldn't call that the best of his career though. His best days were in Denver in the mid-90s. Shaq humiliated Mutombo in that series (and he was DPOY that year). Mutombo took about 17 elbows to the head and 17 dunks to the face. That's all most people recall about that series. The 17 ppg is very surprising to hear.
Webber on AI
- Thread starter 4cwebb
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Webber scored 18 points in the victory. A number of players scored in the teens. He would certainly have a point if he talked about the need for balanced scoring. I don't see Iverson paring his scoring down to 18-20 points for the team. But is Webber going to say that he and A.I. scored too much when they both go for 30?
Webber does wear his heart on his sleeve, and he is more than a cliche machine. It benefits him more off the court than on the court or in Court. His bad reputation is in spite of his positive personality flaws.
Webber does wear his heart on his sleeve, and he is more than a cliche machine. It benefits him more off the court than on the court or in Court. His bad reputation is in spite of his positive personality flaws.
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"Without a doubt?" I'd be interested in hearing your explanation of what makes the 13.9ppg 13.7rpg that Mutombo averaged in the playoffs in 2001 qualitatively better "without a doubt" than the 15.4ppg and 12.3rpg that he averaged in the playoffs for Atlanta in 1997.
It's no myth, and it is supported by facts: the thing that you conveniently glossed over is that none of those guys whom Iverson allegedly made better are offensive players (I won't count Korver because he's never played for another team, so who's to say that Iverson actually *is* making him better?). And, by the way, neither MacCulloch nor Mutombo had their best seasons playing in Philadelphia: MacCulloch's best season was in New Jersey in 2002 and Mutombo's best seasons were in Denver.
Look at the offensive players that have had to play alongside Iverson: Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Keith Van Horn, Clarence Weatherspoon, Derrick Coleman, Toni Kukoc, Raja Bell, Speedy Claxton, Matt Harpring, Kenny Thomas, Glenn Robinson... Chris Webber. Every offensive player that has ever played with Iverson has been more productive either before or after Iverson... and, in the case of some (like Jackson, Thomas and Kukoc), more productive before and after Iverson. Those guys that you claim Iverson made better aren't actually shooters or scorers, and got all their points from Iverson's sloppy seconds, and that's exactly how the team was designed to work. Unfortunately for Philadelphia, and any of Iverson's past, present and future teammates, Iverson has apparently decided that that's also the only way that the team *can* work; he doesn't play well with others. Players that can actually be productive offensively have, all too often, actually been diminished as players next to Iverson, because Iverson decided a long time ago that there's no room in Philadelphia for two offensively talented players.
It's no myth, and it is supported by facts: the thing that you conveniently glossed over is that none of those guys whom Iverson allegedly made better are offensive players (I won't count Korver because he's never played for another team, so who's to say that Iverson actually *is* making him better?). And, by the way, neither MacCulloch nor Mutombo had their best seasons playing in Philadelphia: MacCulloch's best season was in New Jersey in 2002 and Mutombo's best seasons were in Denver.
Look at the offensive players that have had to play alongside Iverson: Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Keith Van Horn, Clarence Weatherspoon, Derrick Coleman, Toni Kukoc, Raja Bell, Speedy Claxton, Matt Harpring, Kenny Thomas, Glenn Robinson... Chris Webber. Every offensive player that has ever played with Iverson has been more productive either before or after Iverson... and, in the case of some (like Jackson, Thomas and Kukoc), more productive before and after Iverson. Those guys that you claim Iverson made better aren't actually shooters or scorers, and got all their points from Iverson's sloppy seconds, and that's exactly how the team was designed to work. Unfortunately for Philadelphia, and any of Iverson's past, present and future teammates, Iverson has apparently decided that that's also the only way that the team *can* work; he doesn't play well with others. Players that can actually be productive offensively have, all too often, actually been diminished as players next to Iverson, because Iverson decided a long time ago that there's no room in Philadelphia for two offensively talented players.
Excellent analysis. Guys like Snow, McKie, Ratliff, etc., all have roles in the NBA, and those roles were used in the correct fashion under LB in 2001. All three players have always been offensively challenged in the NBA for their entire careers.
To be fair, I think AI is playing better with CWebb as he is really the first offensively talented PF AI has been paired with (please excuse me, KThomas and CWeatherspoon), but there's no doubt that he still dominates the basketball.
To be fair, I think AI is playing better with CWebb as he is really the first offensively talented PF AI has been paired with (please excuse me, KThomas and CWeatherspoon), but there's no doubt that he still dominates the basketball.
Jerry Stackhouse--What team needs two Iversons?
Larry Hughes--Rookie growing pains. It took a while for him to get good. He co-existed with Arenas and Jamison, neither of whom are that much worse than A.I. as monopolizers of the ball. And it was Brown that gave up on him.
Keith Van Horn--So despised it seems people would be glad that he was held back. He's disappointed since leaving, so maybe he was the cause.
Clarence Weatherspoon--Wasn't he slowing down? His poor man's Barkley bit was for some worse teams.
Derrick Coleman--He was for certain slowing down. He was transitioning from a Marvin Barnes-type to a player who contributes mostly through intangibles. (Brown has called him the most intelligent basketball player he's ever coached.)
Toni Kukoc--Was a role player by then.
Raja Bell--My fond memory of him aside, a developing rookie. Maybe also a case of the team not giving him time.
Speedy Claxton--Rookie. He had his moments at Golden State, but ask some and their assessment of him has been consistent throughout his career.
Matt Harpring--Fair enough. He had a good career there. He scored more for the Jazz because they needed it. A.I. should learn to co-exist with a guy like this.
Kenny Thomas--Was he more productive as a Rocket?
Glenn Robinson--Big Dog's heyday was so far gone at that time that it was as if it had never existed. His game was down a bit from his Atlanta days, but it was because of steady deterioration on his part.
Chris Webber--One-knee wonder. Has had some huge games. His rebounding and passing should not be affected.
"Players that can actually be productive offensively have, all too often, actually been diminished as players next to Iverson, because Iverson decided a long time ago that there's no room in Philadelphia for two offensively talented players."--Fair enough. Replace Iverson with Chris Paul or Deron Williams and the 76ers might be a better team. But I'm still going to say that A.I. is more Rick Berry than Pete Maravich.
As for Webber, he turned Peja into a shell of his former self, he will never swallow his own blood, and he'll only fall on his sword after tripping. He's a Hall-of-Fame talent with Hall-of-Fame production, but he at the least has the same drawbacks as Iverson.
And yet, he went on to have a better season in ATL after leaving PHI; averaged 19.7 after the trade.
You could make the case that he was; he certainly had a better season in 2001-02 than anything he did in PHI. He also put up better numbers after being traded from PHI than anything he did there.
Statistics do not suggest that his rebounding has been largely affected; as far as his passing, I'm not so sure. If I'm reading the stats on 82games correctly, Webber most often receives the ball in Phila's offense in the lower half of the shot clock. That means that he's getting the ball at a point where more often than not, he has to shoot; it's a lot easier to make plays for your teammates when your role is as a facilitator, rather than a finisher.
BS. To paraphrase Vincent Kennedy McMahon, Chris Webber didn't screw Peja Stojakovic; Peja Stojakovic screwed Peja Stojakovic.
You could make the case that he was; he certainly had a better season in 2001-02 than anything he did in PHI. He also put up better numbers after being traded from PHI than anything he did there.
Statistics do not suggest that his rebounding has been largely affected; as far as his passing, I'm not so sure. If I'm reading the stats on 82games correctly, Webber most often receives the ball in Phila's offense in the lower half of the shot clock. That means that he's getting the ball at a point where more often than not, he has to shoot; it's a lot easier to make plays for your teammates when your role is as a facilitator, rather than a finisher.
BS. To paraphrase Vincent Kennedy McMahon, Chris Webber didn't screw Peja Stojakovic; Peja Stojakovic screwed Peja Stojakovic.
Having just got back from Philly and seeing 3 games in person as well as going to a party they were at, there is definitely a lack of love right now. I heard that everything had been straightened out between Chris and AI but they're body language told me very different. They seemed much more relaxed and happy without him there. They also played much better defense in 2 of the games, and were more cohesive as a team. At the beginning of the year, it was all hugs and smiles between them, now they're ignoring each other for the most part. Rumors are flying big time about AI being traded but the loss to the Suns has squashed that a little.
At the party all the Sixers that were there were together and having a good time, AI was the other side of the room by himself and didn't even speak to anyone. He didn't even say happy birthday to Iggy and was very rude to the people there, well his "security" was anyway. The other guys were all nice and mingling with the people there. I don't think Chris and AI will be able to coexist much longer. AI is alienated from the rest of the team and I don't know if that's his choice but it was very obvious there was no "brotherly love".
At the party all the Sixers that were there were together and having a good time, AI was the other side of the room by himself and didn't even speak to anyone. He didn't even say happy birthday to Iggy and was very rude to the people there, well his "security" was anyway. The other guys were all nice and mingling with the people there. I don't think Chris and AI will be able to coexist much longer. AI is alienated from the rest of the team and I don't know if that's his choice but it was very obvious there was no "brotherly love".
Did you think of the possibility that what he said could also be related to what happened in Sacramento when he got hurt. The Kings won without him just like Philly wins sometimes when AI is hurt. Was it necessarily bad that the Kings were playing some of their best ball without him and the next year he gets traded or was it good because they were still able to win without their best player and make it easier for him when he returns by providing that nice cushion for the playoffs. The media always asks loaded questions and they also know who to ask.