Chubbs
Starter
It's not that hard to manipulate this board to a certain point of view, or to end discussions.
I shut down the Thanks Ty thread today already.
The only surprising thing about that is that it took so long.
Was KF "crowd-sourced" on the Malone firing before it happened?
- Thread starter John Galt
- Start date
I shut down the Thanks Ty thread today already.
The only surprising thing about that is that it took so long.
That is kind of my point. He has a long list of achievents. He is a good to great coach despite having holes.
Hear is a list of coaches with holes:
Pop
Phil Jackson
Don Neilson
Jerry Sloan
Rick Addleman
John Wooden
Pat Summit
Coach K
John Daly
Pat Riely
They all have holes, Their fan bases all think that they have cost them wins, player development, and championships. They themselves would admit to making coaching mistakes on a regular basis. There is no such thing as a perfect coach. Having a long list of accomplishments doesn't mean you don't make mistakes.
We don't know what Coach Malone would be like but we do know that when Demarcus was healthy the team was good.
To make the argument that Malone was a bad coach based on an overtime loss to one of the better teams in the league seems silly to me considering that same team was almost never in contention to win anything after that coach was let go.
You have evidence that Malone was a pretty dang good coach.
Karl is a proven, good coach. How long do you think is will be before half the board is up in arms about his late game decision making, substitution patters or minutes distribution? I say about 5 losses.
EJF
G-League
I absolutely believe most, if not all, professional sports franchises try and shape public opinion on their main forum and other public forums by embedding posters. 3rd parties could be tasked to do the work.
This isn't something I put much thought into, however, because it's virtually impossible for an average person like me to figure out. And as a group.....it turns into a silly witch hunt.
This isn't something I put much thought into, however, because it's virtually impossible for an average person like me to figure out. And as a group.....it turns into a silly witch hunt.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If they secretly "crowd sourced" this site, be hard to see how they would have come to the conclusion that most wanted Malone fired. At best they might have concluded there were some vocal outliers who would give them cover on moves they already wanted to make.
And if they ARE doing that, then their ears should have been burning for the last few months.
Meanwhile if that's going on I might go into full hostile mode next time somebody posts something stupid on here. If every dumbass post might be used to justify a dumbass move by the front office, then we have to tighten things up. And yeah, I'm looking at you anti-Cuz folks. Next person to advocate trading the big guy gets the bat!
And if they ARE doing that, then their ears should have been burning for the last few months.
Meanwhile if that's going on I might go into full hostile mode next time somebody posts something stupid on here. If every dumbass post might be used to justify a dumbass move by the front office, then we have to tighten things up. And yeah, I'm looking at you anti-Cuz folks. Next person to advocate trading the big guy gets the bat!
Dude read my reply to you. I'm not basing the fact that Malone wasn't a very good coach on one lost. Wheres the evidence that Malone was a pretty dang good coach? He was 11-13 when he was fired...are you going to base limitied sample size for him being a good coach? Why do you oppose when someone else does that too, but for the argument that he wasn't a good coach?
You're the only person I know that prefers Malone over Karl..makes it even more odd that you're a jazz fan first lol. Yes it might've been nice to see what Malone would've done until the end of the year, but the team is ready to move on with a HOF coach.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Malone was very well built for this team, and he had Boogie's ear and trust.
George Karl's history strongly suggests he'll make it work to some level as well, and possibly more than that. But this isn't the easy blowout of a comparison people who didn't understand what we had in Malone would think. When you get an elite big man, its more important that the coach understand what that means then that he is some brilliant operator on his own.
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Lol at some of you guys. These forums never disappoint 
randymoss1881
Starter
Name a team he lost to that we had more talent than? Besides the lakers when Collison shot 25% from the line thus costing us the game.
When your line up is led by 4 guys that should come off the bench and Gay as the number one option than you will go 2-8.
ninjabiscuit
Bench
I agree that you may be right about the second one, but I'm pretty sure the first guy you were talking about was posting for years before that. The spelling of the name has always bugged me.
Fear the Putin
Starter
Communists? What communists?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
IfAt1st
Starter
Fascinating thread, with important points made over that week to week-and-a-half that decided the whole season for the Kings, and led up to The Firing.
But Android_King is not the plant in that thread - It's quite clearly this guy, who registered Nov 4, 2014 and posted this on Dec 12th:
See the way he ends with a question, to gauge fans' reaction?
2 guesses as to who this is.
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Guys, don't doubt me as one of those planted fans, if indeed there is any. I was posting in this board many years before the new ownership came in. And I have always been a very loyal fan since the Webber days.
Oh yeah, I don't even live in Sacramento. But I love my fellow fans (like brothers and sisters which from time to time you disagree with) and I love the place Sacramento to death (even if most NBA players don't) - all because of the Kings!
All I want is for the Kings to win too. I've seen Malone as a very good defensive coach and players really bought into what he wanted on defense. That defensive mind-set of Malone was actually the HUGE plus for him that was why he was hired by Vivek at the very start. The notion that Vivek subscribes to "offense first" is a big lie concocted by some fans. Actually, the fast paced offense Vivek used when he coached his daughter was predicated by a fast paced, most often times full court and suffocating defense too that lead to opportunities for easy baskets.
Also, we should imagine how hard it was for Vivek to fire a very good friend.
Vivek did it and at the expense of losing money, because the Kings have to WIN!
It should become clear by now that Vivek/PDA's implied reason for firing Malone was that it will be a long time for Malone to learn to instill a meaningful offense. All he knows was to use Cousins or Gay (or IT when he was till here) in those iso-heavy plays, which obviously will never bring the full potential of this team. We cannot wait that long for Malone to learn offense on the fly while we all cringed on his inability to make in-game adjustments on offense. And that was proven from the very start he coached the Kings and continued until he was fired. Like Vivek/PDA, I saw a very slim hope Malone will ever be very good in offense the same way he was very good on defense. Vivek/PDA had to gamble and lose money in the process, and gamble big time they did. They did it because they are for the long-term vision of winning big time.
Actually, the whole plan was simple and complicated at the same time that the process was expected to be long and boring for the fans. But I have to add the organization didn't expect this big uproar and Malone's popularity among fans despite the losing and complaints. They also did not expect being misinterpreted however truthfully they have stated their intentions.
The plan involved a lot of "financial, maneuvering, right fit, and timing" considerations. We fans think of hiring like McDonald's style, as if we can hire right there and then or as easy as A-B-C. No, it involves a lot of money, maneuvering for the perfect timing to negotiate with the preferred coach, and also the timing of hiring were all considered. These plans were concocted at the start when clear signs point to Malone's naivity and going all-out on his own. As we all know now, Malone dug himself into a hole starting from his reluctance to extend Cousin's and Gay's extension, to resisting using modern NBA tools (analytics), and his inability to instill a meaningful offense. His proclamation of "defense wins games" was viewed inside as his defense mechanism to hide his inadequacies in offense. Nobody criticized him about his defensive accumen. He was even praised for it. The bottom line is you cannot win them all with DEFENSE ALONE.
This is why it was planned that Malone will be replaced with an interim coach (Corbin) who happens to have more experience than Malone. Obviously this still did not work. Before the firing, I was told by my insider the plan was to give Corbin an honest chance as interim coach WHILE at the same time searching for the right coach if Corbin fails to deliver. It was also done that way, so that the organization will have the upper hand in negotiations with whomever top-notch coach they eventually picked to coach for the long-term.
George Karl, Mark Jackson, and even the name of Mullins came out.
Supply and demand, does it make sense?
Now, did it make sense too to wait, see, and feel what happens when these coaches' names who wanted to get hired was floated around , knowing they were all asking for exorbitant prices for their services?
When Malone got fired, I was really surprised many fans did not believe the simple reason that Vivek?PDA laid out why Malone got fired. Some even resorted to propagating weird and complicated conspiracy theories. To those fans, I suggest to read about the principle of Occam's razor so you can avoid too much headache on this situation. This is also why I keep on reminding everyone to read the countless criticisms we made as fans on those game threads. And I want everyone to refer to the thread "The Fallacy of Hope" which started days before Malone got fired. It was the thread that sort of broke the camel's back. And it was started by no other than a professed Malone supporter (now that Malone was fired) which is really buffling. So, beware of what you unknowingly asked for. In that thread (which mysteriously was deleted now) it was clearly pointed out that the roster is under-performing with or without Cousins. It was pointed out we should have won more games with this roster. Obviously, the defect was on the coach and Vivek/PDA thought the same way.
BTW, I am not saying I know the truth more than most fans here or the media. Actually, I cannot even fully trust my so-called insider because my "insider" does not even work inside the organization. But, my insider is best-friend-forever with somebody who takes meals everyday with the person who takes the most hit all the time in the Kings. And I am believing my source with lesser grains of salt, because 95% of the time the stories I get were well in-advance (weeks or even months ahead of time) and were almost always confirmed by facts.
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Glenn
Hall of Famer
Don't know who it is but if that isn't a setup to fire Malone and use Corbin, I will check my reading comprehension. A less biased poster might have mentioned Karl and then gave the reason why he shouldn't be signed.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I have absolutely no doubt this mob crowd sources not only KF but all the other Kings websites and even twitter. Whether they used the crowd source to fire Malone is debatable. If they did then they certainly arrived at the wrong conclusions as the MAJORITY of fans had nothing against Mike Malone and believed that he was doing a fine job.
I think their ears started burning as soon as they sacked him. They tried to lay low thinking that the crapstorm will pass but as the time passed it got bigger, it reflected on season ticket sales and they realized that they needed to fix this NOW.
I have no doubt that these idiots leak out rumors to get the crows reaction. Examples being Mully as the next coach, us trading for Deron Williams etc... This is why its important to remain vocal and give these guys hell whenever they deserve it as I get the feeling that an average Kings fan knows more about what it required for a winner than some of the idiots running the show.
I think their ears started burning as soon as they sacked him. They tried to lay low thinking that the crapstorm will pass but as the time passed it got bigger, it reflected on season ticket sales and they realized that they needed to fix this NOW.
I have no doubt that these idiots leak out rumors to get the crows reaction. Examples being Mully as the next coach, us trading for Deron Williams etc... This is why its important to remain vocal and give these guys hell whenever they deserve it as I get the feeling that an average Kings fan knows more about what it required for a winner than some of the idiots running the show.
IfAt1st
Starter
You and Brick have it exactly right -
with this FO, it is more vital than ever to be very vocal, and consistent with the fans' message about the team (coaching, players, etc).
It's not like the fans can force the FO to do something they are dead-set against, but the many decisions that could go either way, we need to be very vocal about.
Case in point: Derrick Williams.
This guy has done NOTHING with his career.
I don't care if he turns it on the last couple months of this season and is remotely productive - I don;t want that clueless no-IQ loser anywhere near this team in the future.
We HAVE to be vigilant and aggressive, week after week, to ensure this FO does not involve William in any future plans in the organization.
He is the exact kind of wrong-headed move that will suck precious resources from the organization if the FO is allowed to think he is useful in any way.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I take it you don't like DWill.
I don't either and he would free up some cap space if we let him go at the end of the season. I'm not sure trade would do as well. We'll see.
IfAt1st
Starter
I haven't written 2 bad things about DWill ever - (I let other posters do that)
but I see that he is exactly the kind of mistake this FO can make, retaining him for dunk highlights when they desperately need players to get over the talent hump and make this team a winner before our ticking time bomb goes off.
but I see that he is exactly the kind of mistake this FO can make, retaining him for dunk highlights when they desperately need players to get over the talent hump and make this team a winner before our ticking time bomb goes off.
ParniValjak
All-Star
DWill is a waste of space. He is such a space cadet out there. He can make a bigger buck going over and playing in China. He just does not get it. Casspi is basketball professor for this guy. He is that bad, that he doesn't have trade value even as an expiring contract. I think that tells us everything that needs to be known
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's just a fact of modern society that there's plants and shills on forums of all kinds. That's not something which is going away anytime soon.
However, I think you've got to be real careful assuming someone is a plant or a shill, especially longtime members here. No way is prince_xy anything of the kind. I've disagreed with him on a few topics of late but this is a poster who's been active and made thorough, well thought-out posts for years.
However, I think you've got to be real careful assuming someone is a plant or a shill, especially longtime members here. No way is prince_xy anything of the kind. I've disagreed with him on a few topics of late but this is a poster who's been active and made thorough, well thought-out posts for years.
John Galt
Starter
lol yep Pete's plant is hiding in plain sight, if you go back and look at many of his posts. kinda funny.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, we can't afford to pay for anymore large contracts, for players who don't bring a single winning "intangible". Whether it be a defensive play, a key shot, diving for a loose ball, a tough rebound, etc etc. Have to bring something towards winning plays. He just doesn't do that
IfAt1st
Starter
We can't afford to allow him in the locker room.
On the practice court.
On the bench.
His spot (and god forbid- minutes on the court) are a direct assault on someone else helping the team
get to the next level they HAVE to get to.
Chubbs
Starter
You kinda buried the lead there.
Thanks for admitting your connection to the team. It seemed quite possible that even if you weren't part of FO yourself, you were being spoon fed information, probably with the knowledge you'd spread it. Is that possible?
I don't think you're a plant in the sense people are thinking, but you're definitely getting the FO sugar coated version of events that paints them as much more careful and calculating than it appears to anyone else. You said plan over and over in that note. You're giving a PDA/vivek biased point of view, where everything makes perfect sense as part of this plan.
They may in fact be using you to get the FO perspective out there. Just beware. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
A plant doesn't have to be hired or paid specifically to be here. Can just merely be a connected person, already a Kings fan and member here, fed information, knowing they'll spew it online. That seems to be confirmed.
Chubbs
Starter
Doesn't mean he's not getting fed information.
He admitted as much. Doesn't mean he's not a fan, or that he's saying things he doesn't believe.
IfAt1st
Starter
Yep - Chubbs, you got it.
There are rare plants (like the obvious one) and then there are (more common) fans who are given (perceived) access and encouraged to disseminate spin. They can be fed biased leaks and then they spread it from the fan's viewpoint (like he's one of us). It's the fan-level layer of Astroturfing. Anyone unfamiliar with the concept needs to read about it to understand contemporary online dynamics.
Forum members spreading FO PR via "inside information" is like a mini version of the game of access that runs the media nowadays.
The Kings control what even a super-fan like Carmichael Dave says, because if he gets out of line with the Party Message, he'll have his access revoked and he'll be podcasting out of his garage again, post haste.
There are rare plants (like the obvious one) and then there are (more common) fans who are given (perceived) access and encouraged to disseminate spin. They can be fed biased leaks and then they spread it from the fan's viewpoint (like he's one of us). It's the fan-level layer of Astroturfing. Anyone unfamiliar with the concept needs to read about it to understand contemporary online dynamics.
Forum members spreading FO PR via "inside information" is like a mini version of the game of access that runs the media nowadays.
The Kings control what even a super-fan like Carmichael Dave says, because if he gets out of line with the Party Message, he'll have his access revoked and he'll be podcasting out of his garage again, post haste.
I'm still confused how some people think Corbin was "more experienced" than Malone.
If you were to create the prototypical coach will the background/pedigree, Malone's lineage creates the exact arc you would be looking for. Stops under multiple coaches, with multiple responsibilities, and consistently achieving results defensively.
Seriously, it's indefensible.
Nothing in Corbin's history shows that he would be an upgrade. Assistant coach in one place, then took over as HC and bombed.
Malone was a more experienced coach, even absent the HC title. Unlike our other failed coaches, he'll be employed shortly.
If you were to create the prototypical coach will the background/pedigree, Malone's lineage creates the exact arc you would be looking for. Stops under multiple coaches, with multiple responsibilities, and consistently achieving results defensively.
Seriously, it's indefensible.
Nothing in Corbin's history shows that he would be an upgrade. Assistant coach in one place, then took over as HC and bombed.
Malone was a more experienced coach, even absent the HC title. Unlike our other failed coaches, he'll be employed shortly.
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Siranthony
Starter
When DeMarcus was sick and we lost all those games it looked to me like the playoffs where not going to be a reality. I remember thinking out loud on the forum about how we might think about tanking. There were also a couple of threads criticizing Malone about his decisions during games and losing big leads. A couple of days later Malone was fired. Maybe it was a coincidence. But the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I'm sure all of the things discussed about Malone after his firing had an impact. I was very surprised how so many fans went ballistic afterwards. Not only that but the conspiracy theories etc where running rampant. It was amazing. But in the end the lesson I think learned was... Don't fire your HC in the middle of the season unless he was just terrible or you have someone better to replace him with. People have investments in season tickets etc etc.
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Well, he wasn't, and they didn't.
Hopefully they learned from this.
Going forward, I offer my services as "a voice of the people", should they want to run some ideas by me before going through with them.
