[Trade] Warriors have obvious Jonathan Kuminga trade demand after latest Kings reports

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blue Man Hoop
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TheMobb said:

Do we really want Kuminga? I’m not saying this tells the whole story, but his lack of understanding and IQ seem like a big concern and why Kerr refuses to play him.
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Welp, this settles it. Kuminga and an unprotected GSW 1st for Monk, the W's have to figure out how to swing a third team into the deal to offload salary. Final offer.
 
sono said:
I have so many questions..
If he's that bad, why are they afraid of him flourishing in the Kings' uniform? There's something about him we still don't know yet?
Why are they holding on to him so dearly when training camp is underway, risking losing him for nothing with only 9 players on their roster?
Anyone could make clips of boneheaded plays of Curry in the finals to make him a villain.

At the end, I want a wing that could put Keegan in his natural position. It's all about making this team more balanced, not his individual glory.
All I want from him is solid wing defense, which we lacked for centuries and decent scoring for the price we're asking.
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They aren’t scared he’d flourish their idiotic owner is the scared one. If the basketball people thought he’d flourish Kerr would be playing him and he’d flourish there. How is your iq so low that you can’t play with Steph that’s crazy
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
They aren’t scared he’d flourish their idiotic owner is the scared one. If the basketball people thought he’d flourish Kerr would be playing him and he’d flourish there. How is your iq so low that you can’t play with Steph that’s crazy
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He's just turning 23. Despite logging four years of service in the NBA, he'd still be the youngest King if he were traded to Sacramento. The Warriors' "two timelines" strategy was well-intentioned, but they drafted the wrong guys for such a strategy. They needed to pick the slightly older Keegan Murray/Nique Clifford types who they could plug into their system with little effort. But instead they pinned their hopes on Kuminga, who they drafted when he was 18 years old, and expected him to thrive in the environment of championship expectations that come with playing alongside Steph Curry and Draymond Green.

It's no mystery why Kuminga hasn't had much success in Golden State, and it's why their front office is in such a bind here. They know he could become something with a bit of time and patience, but it's time and patience they don't have. Kerr and his staff were never willing to help Kuminga work through his growing pains because every season in the west is a gauntlet and Curry isn't getting any younger. They don't want to invest in his development, but they don't want him to succeed elsewhere, either. Classic abusive "if I can't have you, nobody can" possessiveness.
 
Padrino said:
He's just turning 23. Despite logging four years of service in the NBA, he'd still be the youngest King if he were traded to Sacramento. The Warriors' "two timelines" strategy was well-intentioned, but they drafted the wrong guys for such a strategy. They needed to pick the slightly older Keegan Murray/Nique Clifford types who they could plug into their system with little effort. But instead they pinned their hopes on Kuminga, who they drafted when he was 18 years old, and expected him to thrive in the environment of championship expectations that come with playing alongside Steph Curry and Draymond Green.

It's no mystery why Kuminga hasn't had much success in Golden State, and it's why their front office is in such a bind here. They know he could become something with a bit of time and patience, but it's time and patience they don't have. Kerr and his staff were never willing to help Kuminga work through his growing pains because every season in the west is a gauntlet and Curry isn't getting any younger. They don't want to invest in his development, but they don't want him to succeed elsewhere, either. Classic abusive "if I can't have you, nobody can" possessiveness.
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Plus after Kuminga’s rookie season, Mike Brown left the Warriors and pretty much took most of their player development guys to Sacramento with him. (also that’s when the Poole Punch happened)
 
Padrino said:
He's just turning 23. Despite logging four years of service in the NBA, he'd still be the youngest King if he were traded to Sacramento. The Warriors' "two timelines" strategy was well-intentioned, but they drafted the wrong guys for such a strategy. They needed to pick the slightly older Keegan Murray/Nique Clifford types who they could plug into their system with little effort. But instead they pinned their hopes on Kuminga, who they drafted when he was 18 years old, and expected him to thrive in the environment of championship expectations that come with playing alongside Steph Curry and Draymond Green.

It's no mystery why Kuminga hasn't had much success in Golden State, and it's why their front office is in such a bind here. They know he could become something with a bit of time and patience, but it's time and patience they don't have. Kerr and his staff were never willing to help Kuminga work through his growing pains because every season in the west is a gauntlet and Curry isn't getting any younger. They don't want to invest in his development, but they don't want him to succeed elsewhere, either. Classic abusive "if I can't have you, nobody can" possessiveness.
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I really don't understand why they're dragging this out to this extent. Father time comes for everyone and Steph/Jimmy/Dray are quickly approaching the point where a fall off could happen at any point. They have literally 3 guys they plan to be heavy rotation players still not signed with the first preseason game in like a week!

They've long past gotten to the point of trying to extract value. And even if they keep Kuminga, do they really think he's going to be bought in fully? After how he's been treated?

They should be just trying to finalize their offseason and get him out of their building. Focus on what could be the last chance at a title in the steph era
 
The_Jamal said:
I really don't understand why they're dragging this out to this extent. Father time comes for everyone and Steph/Jimmy/Dray are quickly approaching the point where a fall off could happen at any point. They have literally 3 guys they plan to be heavy rotation players still not signed with the first preseason game in like a week!

They've long past gotten to the point of trying to extract value. And even if they keep Kuminga, do they really think he's going to be bought in fully? After how he's been treated?

They should be just trying to finalize their offseason and get him out of their building. Focus on what could be the last chance at a title in the steph era
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It genuinely seems like they're just throwing a hissy fit. They've tendered what I'd honestly consider to be a fair enough three-year deal for Kuminga, but it takes two to tango, and if he won't sign it, you either give him his player option or you sign-and-trade him to extract some value from the situation. What you don't do is risk letting him take the QO while all your other signings are back-burnered. In that event, you've alienated a whole lot of players for no reason, while also giving up any control you have over Kuminga as an asset. I'm guessing the Warriors front office is expecting him to blink, but it will be glorious to watch Kuminga tell the Warriors to shove it by taking the QO if he is, indeed, truly willing to bet on himself.
 
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1971985116810588357
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The Warriors always wanted Kuminga to bow down and thank them for the spanking. Will pride get in his way? On their end it really is funny that this PO/TO thing is the sticking point. They'll be able to deal him if that's the goal. This sure looks like they want him in their bag in case 2027 busts so they can build around him. I think they expected to be rebuilding by now but they were still kind of winning so going with Curry and competing was the only option. I mean, look how on the fence they were even at the last deadline. They could very well flatline next season, who knows. Sometimes teams get old all at once. If that happens and they dealt Kuminga for 50 cents on the dollar they'll be in trouble.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Taking the QO would be cutting off his nose to spite his face, but what a spiteful face it is.
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He'll probably come out ahead even if he's giving up what would be 18 million in salary this season because he will reach free agency sooner by taking the one year QO and that means his max earning potential will go up. Especially if he gets out of Golden State and winds up on a team that wants him to be a #1 or #2 option. I think Kuminga and his agent have played this the right way. That third year team option GS built into their contract offer really is a buzz kill because it's lose-lose for the player. The last thing he should want right now is for Golden State's front office and coaching staff to have a strangle-hold on his future for another 3 years.
 
hrdboild said:
He'll probably come out ahead even if he's giving up what would be 18 million in salary this season because he will reach free agency sooner by taking the one year QO and that means his max earning potential will go up. Especially if he gets out of Golden State and winds up on a team that wants him to be a #1 or #2 option. I think Kuminga and his agent have played this the right way. That third year team option GS built into their contract offer really is a buzz kill because it's lose-lose for the player. The last thing he should want right now is for Golden State's front office and coaching staff to have a strangle-hold on his future for another 3 years.
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If he has to take an MLE deal he's losing multiple years before he can get Bird rights and be made whole. If he signs for 15m after 8 this year, he's basically lost a full year's salary off this deal and another ~7ish the next year, if he is good enough to earn an extension off this contract he'd be bird eligible then, but if he's still got to play another year of that next deal, that's probably 10-15 he's losing that one year.

And if he crashes out...
 
pdxKingsFan said:
If he has to take an MLE deal he's losing multiple years before he can get Bird rights and be made whole. If he signs for 15m after 8 this year, he's basically lost a full year's salary off this deal and another ~7ish the next year, if he is good enough to earn an extension off this contract he'd be bird eligible then, but if he's still got to play another year of that next deal, that's probably 10-15 he's losing that one year.

And if he crashes out...
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I don't think he's chasing 25 million per year, he's chasing a max extension. The sooner he gets out of Golden State the sooner he can start positioning himself to become an All Star / All NBA level player and if he gets there than whatever he's lost over the next 3-4 years will be more than made up for on the back end of his career. You might not agree with the gamble, but I think at his age there's less risk that he'll "Bonzi" himself out of his one big pay day.

Besides, mid-level salaries go up every year regardless due to cap inflation so signing a shorter term deal next year while he's still trending up in production is probably still to his benefit even if he doesn't ever reach that top pay tier. Nobody is offering him that "we think you're worth $30 million plus per year even though you haven't proven anything yet" deal right now so he might as well wait out this tax-apron addled fallow period. If more playing time exposes him as a guy who isn't worth $25 million per year than he will have cost himself a lot of money, but that's why I hope he continues to remain confident and declines the pseudo 3-year deal that Golden State is offering.
 
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hrdboild said:
I don't think he's chasing 25 million per year, he's chasing a max extension. The sooner he gets out of Golden State the sooner he can start positioning himself to become an All Star / All NBA level player and if he gets there than whatever he's lost over the next 3-4 years will be more than made up for on the back end of his career. You might not agree with the gamble, but I think at his age there's less risk that he'll "Bonzi" himself out of his one big pay day.

Besides, mid-level salaries go up every year regardless due to cap inflation so signing a shorter term deal next year while he's still trending up in production is probably still to his benefit even if he doesn't ever reach that top pay tier. Nobody is offering him that "we think you're worth $30 million plus per year even though you haven't proven anything yet" deal right now so he might as well wait out this tax-apron addled fallow period. If more playing time exposes him as a guy who isn't worth $25 million per year than he will have cost himself a lot of money, but that's why I hope he continues to remain confident and declines the pseudo 3-year deal that Golden State is offering.
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I think it's also just taking control of his career. GS has no interest in his development or hia future career plans. They want him as a trade chip/contract. So while he loses short term money, him getting to a situation 2 years earlier that actually values him as a player probably makes more sense for. A guy that's still just 23 years old
 
The_Jamal said:
I think it's also just taking control of his career. GS has no interest in his development or hia future career plans. They want him as a trade chip/contract. So while he loses short term money, him getting to a situation 2 years earlier that actually values him as a player probably makes more sense for. A guy that's still just 23 years old
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Dude is probably tired of seeing Warriors fans trashing him on social media too
 
Tetsujin said:
Dude is probably tired of seeing Warriors fans trashing him on social media too
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I keep thinking that this Kuminga situation echoes Harrison Barnes -- who was also a #7 overall pick taken by Golden State with the hope that he would become a long-term fit next to Steph Curry and that this front office and fanbase also had no problem scapegoating and writing off after their 2016 Finals loss to the Cavs while they chased after veteran reinforcements with their cap space instead.

Barnes and Kuminga don't have a lot in common as basketball players other than their size, but it reminds me that this has been business as usual for this particular Warriors front office. And while I don't think Kuminga's agent wants anyone to be thinking about how Barnes' career turned out, the fact that Barnes got a 4 year / $95 million deal in 2016 coming off a career year where he averaged 11.7 ppg and 4.9 rpg while Kuminga remains unsigned on the eve of training camp illustrates just how bad this current CBA has been for non-Superstar NBA players.
 
hrdboild said:
I don't think he's chasing 25 million per year, he's chasing a max extension. The sooner he gets out of Golden State the sooner he can start positioning himself to become an All Star / All NBA level player and if he gets there than whatever he's lost over the next 3-4 years will be more than made up for on the back end of his career. You might not agree with the gamble, but I think at his age there's less risk that he'll "Bonzi" himself out of his one big pay day.

Besides, mid-level salaries go up every year regardless due to cap inflation so signing a shorter term deal next year while he's still trending up in production is probably still to his benefit even if he doesn't ever reach that top pay tier. Nobody is offering him that "we think you're worth $30 million plus per year even though you haven't proven anything yet" deal right now so he might as well wait out this tax-apron addled fallow period. If more playing time exposes him as a guy who isn't worth $25 million per year than he will have cost himself a lot of money, but that's why I hope he continues to remain confident and declines the pseudo 3-year deal that Golden State is offering.
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He’s not going to Bonzi himself out of the league but I don’t see him on a max contract in 4 years. Which if he takes the QO is how long it takes to get there.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
He’s not going to Bonzi himself out of the league but I don’t see him on a max contract in 4 years. Which if he takes the QO is how long it takes to get there.
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He has no chance of getting there in Golden State though and GS has no reason to trade him to a team that he wants to play for.
 
hrdboild said:
He has no chance of getting there in Golden State though and GS has no reason to trade him to a team that he wants to play for.
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I understand all of that but I think he maximizes his career earnings taking GS deal at the last minute or waiting until they change the option to his. He can just not sign the QO and it expires October 1. But GS would have to renounce him to sign the other players they want, would they not? Does he suddenly have no cap hold but remain restricted?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I understand all of that but I think he maximizes his career earnings taking GS deal at the last minute or waiting until they change the option to his. He can just not sign the QO and it expires October 1. But GS would have to renounce him to sign the other players they want, would they not? Does he suddenly have no cap hold but remain restricted?
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Good question, I'm not sure what happens with his cap hold at that point. I would expect that the cap hold remains until/unless they waive him and renounce his restricted free agency rights.
 
I don’t get all the talk from Warriors media saying “sign and trade never made sense” when a sign and trade is the only thing that makes sense. A sign and trade for anything really.

Kuminga obviously doesn’t want to play there. Kerr at worst thinks Kuminga sucks and at best doesn’t think he fits their timeline at all. Either way, he’s in limbo if he returns to the Warriors.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
He’s not going to Bonzi himself out of the league but I don’t see him on a max contract in 4 years. Which if he takes the QO is how long it takes to get there.
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The thing that goes forgotten about the Bonzi situation is that the dude didn’t work out at all during his hold out going into his year 30 season, came back for his new team vastly out of shape, sucked and immediately got injured.
 
hrdboild said:
Good question, I'm not sure what happens with his cap hold at that point. I would expect that the cap hold remains until/unless they waive him and renounce his restricted free agency rights.
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Keith Smith says that he's basically like any other FA but restricted, so cap hold unless they renounce his rights. I asked him what happens if Kuminga continues to hold out for a deal he approves wrt Warriors getting a full roster for camp but I think he misunderstood the question as well as fixated on my use of "hold out" ... At this point I'm almost more interested in everything non-Kuminga while they play chicken. It sure seems Golden State has far more to lose.

Also totally not monitoring the Quentin Grimes situation but that seems even worse?
 
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