VF21 the fan rants...
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Not with Ron though. It took him two days to change his mind but by then it was too late. Donnie Walsh and Bird had made up their minds to trade him. 
PS: if you all want to trade Brad and Bibby call the Pacers first. We have a starting point who I would give up and you can have Scot back.
PS: if you all want to trade Brad and Bibby call the Pacers first. We have a starting point who I would give up and you can have Scot back.
Last edited:
Thanks VF, it was getting tiresome reading many of the posts. I found myself getting very angry with some. Your respose was perfect.
I have a student in my class who is happiest when he is complaining about something. It was beginning to feel like he was here!!!
Seriously, THIS IS OUR TEAM. Bibby and Brad, while neither perfect, nor immune to criticisim, have carried us much of the season.
Remember, we can have favorites, like some players less than others, and get frustrated at them all, BUT there is NO reason to insult one player in order to compliment another.
WE ARE A TEAM AND I SAY "GO KINGS!" ALL OF THEM!
THANKS FOR THE REMINDER VF21!
I have a student in my class who is happiest when he is complaining about something. It was beginning to feel like he was here!!!
Seriously, THIS IS OUR TEAM. Bibby and Brad, while neither perfect, nor immune to criticisim, have carried us much of the season.
Remember, we can have favorites, like some players less than others, and get frustrated at them all, BUT there is NO reason to insult one player in order to compliment another.
WE ARE A TEAM AND I SAY "GO KINGS!" ALL OF THEM!
THANKS FOR THE REMINDER VF21!
Right on VladeFan! I will reserve my hate and contempt for the player for when they are losing. Just kidding of course, but c'mon people, the Kings won a hard fought and gritty game against a formidable opponent. That speaks volumes.
They outrebounded, outhustled and outplayed them - you can't take that away. They won with less than 100 points, and that does not happen often with this team. They could have won with 92 points! By the way, the Nuggets didn't just have a bad night, they simply got beat.
They outrebounded, outhustled and outplayed them - you can't take that away. They won with less than 100 points, and that does not happen often with this team. They could have won with 92 points! By the way, the Nuggets didn't just have a bad night, they simply got beat.
With all due respect, where was this thread when Peja was being thrown under the bus? How about the Philly 3 or Shareef or Hart or anyone else who is routinely criticized?
Most of the people on this board are Kings fans first and foremost and everyone has a different opinion on which players and attributes are most valuable to the team. Just because the players that you happen to think are valuable are being subjected to criticism and/or trade suggestions doesn't necessarily mean that the people who do so should be singled out for scorn. We're all Kings fans here...
Most of the people on this board are Kings fans first and foremost and everyone has a different opinion on which players and attributes are most valuable to the team. Just because the players that you happen to think are valuable are being subjected to criticism and/or trade suggestions doesn't necessarily mean that the people who do so should be singled out for scorn. We're all Kings fans here...
VF's point is not that there shouldn't be criticism (as fans on a forum, we are supposed to give our opinions) but that people are so quickly willing to single out certain individuals after only one game in which one performed poorly and the other didn't play at all. And as an aside...I am not sure if you saw any of the onslaught against Webber, but I'll be the first to tell you that Peja or any of the others you mentioned never got EVEN CLOSE to the worst of it (in terms of criticism) from fans or the media.
I think Bibby needs to stay. There may come a time when his play doesn't fit the team, but we aren't there yet. If you're going to replace him you better find something that is bibby and then some. Basically more of a complete player. But, it's glaringly obvious that eventually we'll have to get rid of Miller due to his lack of athleticism. He's a good jump shooter, and a good passer, but he is not physically able to do much else. It's not that he doesn't try.
For the past couple weeks reading this forum, 1 quote keep coming to my mind is "who needs enemies when you have fans like this". We had all the "peja needs to go", "miller needs to go", "SAR needs to go". "Bibby needs to go" kind of thread, we had fans jump all over our players after they play 1 bad game..
This quote was from a one of Houston Rockets fan site, but i think it suits pretty well here too..
hope things will change a bit here..
This quote was from a one of Houston Rockets fan site, but i think it suits pretty well here too..
hope things will change a bit here..
I think some people may be missing the point about what VF meant. It has NOTHING to do with voicing your opinions about the skills of our players or if somebody should be traded, etc. This is a great place to discuss it. IMHO, it means that, for a while now, the comments have taken a downward spiral. It does not matter which player is being discussed. We have spent too much time almost pitting players against one another. Martin/Garcia, SAR/Bibby, SAR/Thomas, etc...
The fact is - they are all KINGS. We do not need to downgrade one to make another look good. The fact of the matter is, NONE OF THEM ARE PERFECT. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
I just wish we focused more on the good than the bad. Now that is just MY preference. We do not all have to do that. If we did, there would not be real reason to have this board. BUT, we have been much more vicious latley. Maybe its the losing that brings out the shark in us.
It just makes me sad as a fan when we constantly dog on our own players from the biggest name all the way to the guy in the doghouse.
The fact is - they are all KINGS. We do not need to downgrade one to make another look good. The fact of the matter is, NONE OF THEM ARE PERFECT. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
I just wish we focused more on the good than the bad. Now that is just MY preference. We do not all have to do that. If we did, there would not be real reason to have this board. BUT, we have been much more vicious latley. Maybe its the losing that brings out the shark in us.
It just makes me sad as a fan when we constantly dog on our own players from the biggest name all the way to the guy in the doghouse.
T
As Chelle pointed out, it is the losing that brings out the worst in us as fans, and that is what should be expected. I'm not saying we should continue the player bashing, but should just get used to it. Until they start winning, I don't see it changing. Although, even with the recent losses, they have showed some heart, and I think that is all we wanted in the first place.
I think the problem is Kings have been winning for very long and fans can't take the bad.
Begining of the season very one is happy about Reef, Kings finally have a PF that can dunk....Few weeks later when the team still learning to play off each other people start pointing finger to Reef(not fit)/KT(play like crap)/bibby Peja(can't hit a shoot to save their life)/Miller(bad D)...etc
Going into Dec injury start hitting and 3 starter go down, all of the sudden bunch guy decide they want to play bb game and Bibby start hitting his shoot. People than said trade Reef, trade Peja, KT and Kmart is doing just fine.
Going into Jan Kings start winning some games and the trade Reef trade Peja is getting louder and louder as Reef and Peja is playing subpar because of the injuries. End of Jan we got Ron for Peja and people start the whole "trade" Miller/Bibby thing.
Should we trade everyone except Ron/Wells/Kmart and rebuild? How about we wait and see what this team can really do when everyone is health? I am still confident Bibby/Wells/RA/Reef/Miller + KT/Gar/Kmart can bring this team back to PO.
oh, almost forgot the whole RA thingy.
Begining of the season very one is happy about Reef, Kings finally have a PF that can dunk....Few weeks later when the team still learning to play off each other people start pointing finger to Reef(not fit)/KT(play like crap)/bibby Peja(can't hit a shoot to save their life)/Miller(bad D)...etc
Going into Dec injury start hitting and 3 starter go down, all of the sudden bunch guy decide they want to play bb game and Bibby start hitting his shoot. People than said trade Reef, trade Peja, KT and Kmart is doing just fine.
Going into Jan Kings start winning some games and the trade Reef trade Peja is getting louder and louder as Reef and Peja is playing subpar because of the injuries. End of Jan we got Ron for Peja and people start the whole "trade" Miller/Bibby thing.
Should we trade everyone except Ron/Wells/Kmart and rebuild? How about we wait and see what this team can really do when everyone is health? I am still confident Bibby/Wells/RA/Reef/Miller + KT/Gar/Kmart can bring this team back to PO.
oh, almost forgot the whole RA thingy.
I gotta say that all of the belly-aching by the fans is just natural when the team is in last place. That's the way sports is and the way all fans are all over the country. The fans are showing that they hate losing, that they want a winner. What's wrong with that? You preach loyalty to the players? I think loyalty to the team first and foremost is the most important quality. I respect fans that stick with their team no matter what, who avoid cowardly aligning themselves with whoever's winning at the time. Believe me, I understand, growing up as a Bills fan. However, sometimes the fans will feel that certain players need to play better or be traded when the team's not doing well. That's only human nature and nothing will ever change that. The players get rewarded with million dollar contracts. I don't think they're going to cry themselves to sleep if the fans strart to boo or criticize them. All the average fan gets is stiff ticket increases that practically price a family of four out of going to a game. I think they have every right to voice their displeasure.
I don't agree with all of the complaining, while some of it may actually be warranted. I think Bibby has contributed the most overall to this team with his offensive output and clutchness despite his lack of defense. I think he should be the last guy to get criticism, yet I believe every fan has a right to say whatever they want.
The calls for Miller to be traded however, are understandable. Yes he is a very nice guy and has had alot of success here, but loyalty doesn't win you games. He still isn't agressive enough on offense (he'll pass up good shots although his jumper is really good) and his inside defense is absolutely killing this team. There is no interior shotblocking presence which gives the other team a green light to attack the basket at will. Every night he makes the opposing center look like Wilt Chamberlain. Sure B-52's 20 pts and 5 assists are nice, but how much does it really help when Kendrik Perkins is scoring 15 points off easy 2-4 footers on the other end? Face it, Miller is a point-center and doesn't rebound nearly as well as he should. That is severly hurting the team.
Who's to say the Kings wouldn't be a better team trading Miller for an athletic/shotblocker/rebounder like Camby or Chandler? If the Kings are a better team for it, then why not discuss it? Forget loyalty, I'd rather see the team win games. We've already seen the heart of the franchise in Cwebb, along with significant others in Christie, Bobby J, and Peja leave or get traded. Why not bring a player's name up in a trade that might improve the team instead of keeping it to yourself out of loyalty for a guy who's only been here 3 years? This is a business where the goal is supposed to be winning. Put the best possible product on the court at all costs.
I don't agree with all of the complaining, while some of it may actually be warranted. I think Bibby has contributed the most overall to this team with his offensive output and clutchness despite his lack of defense. I think he should be the last guy to get criticism, yet I believe every fan has a right to say whatever they want.
The calls for Miller to be traded however, are understandable. Yes he is a very nice guy and has had alot of success here, but loyalty doesn't win you games. He still isn't agressive enough on offense (he'll pass up good shots although his jumper is really good) and his inside defense is absolutely killing this team. There is no interior shotblocking presence which gives the other team a green light to attack the basket at will. Every night he makes the opposing center look like Wilt Chamberlain. Sure B-52's 20 pts and 5 assists are nice, but how much does it really help when Kendrik Perkins is scoring 15 points off easy 2-4 footers on the other end? Face it, Miller is a point-center and doesn't rebound nearly as well as he should. That is severly hurting the team.
Who's to say the Kings wouldn't be a better team trading Miller for an athletic/shotblocker/rebounder like Camby or Chandler? If the Kings are a better team for it, then why not discuss it? Forget loyalty, I'd rather see the team win games. We've already seen the heart of the franchise in Cwebb, along with significant others in Christie, Bobby J, and Peja leave or get traded. Why not bring a player's name up in a trade that might improve the team instead of keeping it to yourself out of loyalty for a guy who's only been here 3 years? This is a business where the goal is supposed to be winning. Put the best possible product on the court at all costs.
Last edited:
The difference is in how the criticisms, complaints, etc. are expressed. I'm talking about NOT instantly dumping on someone because they have a bad game occasionally. I'm talking about honestly giving the team a chance AS A TEAM before you starting crying for another trade. At some point, you have to quit tinkering with something and see how works...
This isn't fantasy NBA. It's the real deal. You don't just pull the trigger on trades to see what will happen. Why don't you see a myriad of trades each season? Because the teams understand that principle. One would think fans could see it too, but there's a certain small number of fans who are so used to fantasy leagues and their video games that they apparently don't recognize the difference.
It's not about the average fan voicing their displeasure. It's about a few members of this message board. Kingsfans.com isn't about player bashing, constantly berating our own, etc. There are tons of sports message boards out there in cyberspace where that IS the norm. This isn't one of them. Unfortunately, we sometimes get new members from some of those sites who bring their bad habits with them.
...
The team that fought its way to last place isn't around any longer. I like the potential of the players that are now wearing the uniform. I would think most Kings fans would be willing to give them at least 10 games before they decide whether or not they think they should be blown up. Yes, there's room for improvement and we, as fans, should certainly be discussing it but why does it have to be with nothing but bashing? It was horrible with Webber, it was abysmal with Peja and now it continues? Why? What possible good does it do to make demeaning, unnecessary comments about our own players? Criticism is one thing. Some of the vitrolic blatherings I've seen are way over the line.
Kingsfans.com has NEVER been about constantly railing about our own players. It's one of the reasons IMHO we're now the most active Kings message board on the Internet and we're continuing to grow. It's my own opinion that people who come here should be honoring the long-time traditions of the board and not trying to take it down into the morass of all the others...
This isn't fantasy NBA. It's the real deal. You don't just pull the trigger on trades to see what will happen. Why don't you see a myriad of trades each season? Because the teams understand that principle. One would think fans could see it too, but there's a certain small number of fans who are so used to fantasy leagues and their video games that they apparently don't recognize the difference.
It's not about the average fan voicing their displeasure. It's about a few members of this message board. Kingsfans.com isn't about player bashing, constantly berating our own, etc. There are tons of sports message boards out there in cyberspace where that IS the norm. This isn't one of them. Unfortunately, we sometimes get new members from some of those sites who bring their bad habits with them.
...
The team that fought its way to last place isn't around any longer. I like the potential of the players that are now wearing the uniform. I would think most Kings fans would be willing to give them at least 10 games before they decide whether or not they think they should be blown up. Yes, there's room for improvement and we, as fans, should certainly be discussing it but why does it have to be with nothing but bashing? It was horrible with Webber, it was abysmal with Peja and now it continues? Why? What possible good does it do to make demeaning, unnecessary comments about our own players? Criticism is one thing. Some of the vitrolic blatherings I've seen are way over the line.
Kingsfans.com has NEVER been about constantly railing about our own players. It's one of the reasons IMHO we're now the most active Kings message board on the Internet and we're continuing to grow. It's my own opinion that people who come here should be honoring the long-time traditions of the board and not trying to take it down into the morass of all the others...
I don't agree with the immediate bashing of a player just b/c he had a bad game, but I do think the thoughtful trade talk of certain players can be warranted. I like the combo of Bibby, Bonzi, and Artest. I really do. You have clutchness, perimeter scoring, defense, and rebounding. It sounds promising and can be a good building block. However, regardless of how much time we allow this team to gel and play together, the major glaring weakness will still be rebounding and interior defense. Your shooting guard shouldn't be the team's leading rebounder, period. Any knowledgeable bball person can see this. SAR can score, but he doesn't rebound like a PF should and Brad is a point-center who can't play a lick of D. Now, we can all be as nice as we want, allowing all the pieces to play together to see what happens, or we can talk about acquiring some toughness down low.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo
His comments were NOT out of frustration. He asked for a trade once, and then went on local tv many hours later and requested it again. The "Ohhh I wanna play for the Pacers" stuff only came after Donnie said that he was ok not playing him the rest of the season. He did not want to play for the Pacers, that simple. However, he was willing to play for the Pacers if it meant not playing at all otherwise.
It came to a point where not a single player on the team wanted Ron on the team. At that point, you have to suspend him, or risk losing your entire team. There's no 'fixing' things when it reaches that point.
It's just too much of annoyance from game-to-game, week-to-week or the flavor of the month idea of making thread after thread about either this player sucks or he should be traded.
What gets me the most is that the reasons behind these threads are reasons we've already known about long before the season started, in the cases of Mike and Brad. What else is new? Mike's not good at defense, Brad's not athletic, but when they're good it's nothing but praise.
I support the team, good games and bad. No one should be immune to criticism, but lord help us if the board is gonna be overfilled with the same old trades and player vs player threads.
What gets me the most is that the reasons behind these threads are reasons we've already known about long before the season started, in the cases of Mike and Brad. What else is new? Mike's not good at defense, Brad's not athletic, but when they're good it's nothing but praise.
I support the team, good games and bad. No one should be immune to criticism, but lord help us if the board is gonna be overfilled with the same old trades and player vs player threads.
wow VF! you've read my mind.. lol.. you know what, call me crazy but i'd rather see this team lose than see its members be sent away one by one.. the heartbreaks caused by the losses can heal overtime or in a day or two but the ones caused by someone going away(jwill, vlade, doug, cwebb, bobby, peja, and all the rest) and seeing them wearing a different jersey would haunt me forever..
A
SoupIsGood said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo
His comments were NOT out of frustration. He asked for a trade once, and then went on local tv many hours later and requested it again. The "Ohhh I wanna play for the Pacers" stuff only came after Donnie said that he was ok not playing him the rest of the season. He did not want to play for the Pacers, that simple. However, he was willing to play for the Pacers if it meant not playing at all otherwise.
It came to a point where not a single player on the team wanted Ron on the team. At that point, you have to suspend him, or risk losing your entire team. There's no 'fixing' things when it reaches that point.
His comments were NOT out of frustration. He asked for a trade once, and then went on local tv many hours later and requested it again. The "Ohhh I wanna play for the Pacers" stuff only came after Donnie said that he was ok not playing him the rest of the season. He did not want to play for the Pacers, that simple. However, he was willing to play for the Pacers if it meant not playing at all otherwise.
It came to a point where not a single player on the team wanted Ron on the team. At that point, you have to suspend him, or risk losing your entire team. There's no 'fixing' things when it reaches that point.