Tyrese Watch 2023-2024

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
My opinion is they just do the end of season award voting without accounting for the injury qualifier and if a player still makes the team, he doesn't get the award but gets put into a medically disqualified pool that allows the team and player to pay the supermax or some percentage of the difference between the traditional max and supermax based on % of games played (which let's be real - that's a VERY fair compromise).

Allegedly Siakam specifically wanted to play with Hali, so let's hope that he was as honest in saying that as Hali is in saying winning is all that matters to him.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
My opinion is they just do the end of season award voting without accounting for the injury qualifier and if a player still makes the team, he doesn't get the award but gets put into a medically disqualified pool that allows the team and player to pay the supermax or some percentage of the difference between the traditional max and supermax based on % of games played (which let's be real - that's a VERY fair compromise).

Allegedly Siakam specifically wanted to play with Hali, so let's hope that he was as honest in saying that as Hali is in saying winning is all that matters to him.
I'm sure Siakam liked the idea of playing with Haliburton, but apparently the teammate he was most excited about was Myles Turner for the way he'd open up the paint for him.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I'm sure Siakam liked the idea of playing with Haliburton, but apparently the teammate he was most excited about was Myles Turner for the way he'd open up the paint for him.
I thought I read an article in the aftermath of the trade that said he chose Indy to play with Haliburton. Either way, both of those guys are locked up. Even though the team seems to have fallen off from their hot start since he got there he is putting up very nice numbers. So I am sure he re-signs assuming they give him the max.
 
Some people out there have pointed out that he might be missing Buddy, who he always stuck up for and liked as a teammate. They lost Buddy's shooting/spacing and now Mathurin is out for the season so I'm guessing defenses are able to clamp him down a bit more now. Their shooting guards are Nembhard and Ben Sheppard now so that's not great, and Siakam isn't an outside threat. I bet they somewhat regret that Buddy trade now but just a guess
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Some people out there have pointed out that he might be missing Buddy, who he always stuck up for and liked as a teammate. They lost Buddy's shooting/spacing and now Mathurin is out for the season so I'm guessing defenses are able to clamp him down a bit more now. Their shooting guards are Nembhard and Ben Sheppard now so that's not great, and Siakam isn't an outside threat. I bet they somewhat regret that Buddy trade now but just a guess
He may miss Buddy but he is going to need to move on from Buddy to win in the league. Buddy is not a winning player. He might be able to contribute when his weaknesses can be masked, but imho when he is starting he brings everyone else's defense down with him, and if he isn't starting or getting enough touches for his liking, he brings the morale of the team down.
 
IMO Tyrese game started to slide back to the norm once the Pacers picked up another Alpha player in Siakam.

When Tyrese is the clear and only Alpha, he dominates. When there is a 1A or 1B option along with him, he tends to tone down his game to accommodate the other player, like when he played with Fox. That’s why I couldn’t see him dominating with the Kings had he stayed in the same backcourt with Fox.
 
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Hurt or not, some regression was coming for Hali. Him playing as a combo between Prime Steve Nash and Prime Steph Curry just wasn't sustainable long-term lol. His November truly is one of the better months I've ever seen from a player though, but he'd be top 10 all-time status if he were able to maintain those rates.
Everyone got out in front of their skis a bit with Tyrese, beginning immediately after the Sabonis-Haliburton trade. And ever since, there has been a push amongst the NBA nerd set to crown him one of the league's best. He's a really good player, an All-Star in the lesser conference. And he still very well could be on a superstar trajectory. But the rush to anoint Tyrese has done him no favors. And it's done the Pacers no favors, either. They made the Siakam trade under the illusion that they were ready for prime time, surrendering three first round picks in the process, including their own this year and in 2026. That may very well come back to bite them in the end.

The calculus for a team like the Kings is different, since their timeline requires a more "all-in" approach. Prior to trading for Siakam, with Haliburton at 24 and Mathurin at 21, the Pacers could afford to be patient. But now I wonder how high their ceiling is. Myles Turner is 27 and Siakam is 29, and they're going to have to commit big money to re-signing Siakam in the off-season. Perhaps it all works out for them, but right now they're very dependent on Tyrese reaching meteoric superstardom. Dunno that I'd make that bet.
 
IMO Tyrese game started to slide back to the norm once the Pacers picked up another Alpha player in Siakam.

When Tyrese is the clear and only Alpha, he dominates. When there is a 1A or 1B option along with him, he tends to tone down his game to accommodate the other player, like when he played with Fox. That’s why I couldn’t see him dominating with the Kings had he stayed in the same backcourt with Fox.
and to be fair, Fox wasn't nearly as productive along side him. Which would make sense, considering they are both lead guards.

Similar to how if you had two players who play the '5' in today's game in the same lineup. Like Sabonis and Myles Turner, as an example
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
IMO Tyrese game started to slide back to the norm once the Pacers picked up another Alpha player in Siakam.

When Tyrese is the clear and only Alpha, he dominates. When there is a 1A or 1B option along with him, he tends to tone down his game to accommodate the other player, like when he played with Fox. That’s why I couldn’t see him dominating with the Kings had he stayed in the same backcourt with Fox.
I am not sure if that's fair. Among other things Siakam is enjoying a real nice boost in productivity from where he was at in Toronto earlier this season and seems rejuvenated, so he may cede some scoring but should be more productive in other areas.

Fox and Hali were oil and water. I do believe Hali and Siakam will figure it out. But Hali is still more likely to slot in as a top 20 player not a perennial MVP candidate.
 
I am not sure if that's fair. Among other things Siakam is enjoying a real nice boost in productivity from where he was at in Toronto earlier this season and seems rejuvenated, so he may cede some scoring but should be more productive in other areas.

Fox and Hali were oil and water. I do believe Hali and Siakam will figure it out. But Hali is still more likely to slot in as a top 20 player not a perennial MVP candidate.
Yes, we should give the Hali-Siakam duo more time together. But for some reason or another Hali's numbers have dropped significantly since Siakam came on board in Toronto and I don't think it's just Buddy being traded.

With Fox, his game went to new heights playing alongside an Alpha bigman in Domas (albeit in their 2nd season). So, we will have to wait and see if Hali's-Siakam duo will flourish next year, but Hali has definitely not been playing like "All-World" Hali since Siakam came on board.
 
Yes, we should give the Hali-Siakam duo more time together. But for some reason or another Hali's numbers have dropped significantly since Siakam came on board in Toronto and I don't think it's just Buddy being traded.

With Fox, his game went to new heights playing alongside an Alpha bigman in Domas (albeit in their 2nd season). So, we will have to wait and see if Hali's-Siakam duo will flourish next year, but Hali has definitely not been playing like "All-World" Hali since Siakam came on board.
He was injured at the same time they got Siakam....and hasn't looked the same since coming back from that injury. Probably won't know till next season how they will really work together
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I was just reading it after last night's game and omg yikes

https://www.reddit.com/r/pacers/comments/1bi87z5
Damn I know its reddit but damn. They're not pulling punches and it doesn't seem fair.

That said, Haliburton has played himself out of an All-NBA team spot so if he isn't playing just because he's a competitor someone needs to get in his ear so he doesn't hurt himself.
 
The Pacers are one Keon Ellis away from making a leap.

The only concern I had about Hali was whether his body could hold up to a full season of being the man/taking contact going to the rim. He’ll for sure snap out of the shooting slump - but he might never average what he was doing before the injury this season (first ballot hall of famer numbers). And not due to the injury - but more from a long term usage perspective.
 
It's possible that Tyrese rushed himself to come back after his injury in order to manage to play 65+ games and be eligible for All-NBA team, I don't know if he gets a bonus for that, or he can have a bigger contract after, similar case with Fox that denied the extension in the offseason to be able to get a super max or how it's called if he makes the All NBA team again this year. He has to play in 8 more games (Indiana has 12 remaining) while Fox to 5 (from the last 14 for the Kings) for both of them to get to the "magic" number 65. I don't know if any of them played less than 20 minutes (for the games to count) in any of their matches so far.

Ok i checked Fox has always played at least 26 minutes in all his matches, Hali has a match with 13' only (when he was injured vs Celtics) and 4 matches with 20,22,22 and 22 minutes when he was playing with minutes restriction, one of them in their loss hosting the Kings, the only match he came from the bench. So he needs to play in the next 9 or 10, missing just two matches, if they will let him rest since they are in a similar situation with the Kings chasing the 6th spot. Their schedule is tough (next 4 matches on the road @Warriors, Lakers, Clippers and Bulls, followed by a match at home versus the Lakers. The Heat having much easier schedule (7 out of the next 8 matches at home and the one on the road @wizards) will most likely jump to the 6th spot sending them to the play in.
 
The Pacers are one Keon Ellis away from making a leap.
This seems like a strange thing to say. We don't even yet know if the Kings are one Keon Ellis away from making a leap. It certainly seems like he's a high impact player, but we should probably wait until he's logged more time as a starter before we anoint him as a leap-making figure.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Hali has been Huerter-level on d pretty much the whole year( the games that I watched,and I watched quite a few).Sometimes it seems he is not even trying
That’s insulting to Huerter, who at least tries to play defense and is long and strong enough to occasionally have a good defensive stretch. Tyrese pretty much is just playing passing lanes the entire game at this point.