Trade sends IT to Cleveland, Kyrie to Boston

#31
Looks to me like another attempt to downplay something our **** FO did. DMC's the reason the IT situation played out the way it did because they "hated each other"? Give me a break; the IT situation as usual is on the FO.
 
#32
I saw this with my own eyes and don't know why everybody has such a hard time believing it. Once in particular - game against the Clippers - IT went over to shake hands with CP3 and DeMarcus grabbed him. IT tore himself loose like "wtf!?" Something definitely wasn't right.
I remember that game.....he pulled IT away from shaking because Chris Paul was punking Sac during the game.....the over the top flopping, the over the top trash talking, complaining to the refs. It was bad. Cuz and most of if not all of the team did not shake hands with the Clippers. Now, maybe there was something to the IT/Cuz deal but not in this situation. That was a "Clippers are ass##### situation".
 
#38
I remember that game.....he pulled IT away from shaking because Chris Paul was punking Sac during the game.....the over the top flopping, the over the top trash talking, complaining to the refs. It was bad. Cuz and most of if not all of the team did not shake hands with the Clippers. Now, maybe there was something to the IT/Cuz deal but not in this situation. That was a "Clippers are ass##### situation".
Not disagreeing with your read on what happened that game - I agree. Nevertheless, it was a hostility between DMC and IT ... it wasn't Rudy Gay or Caron Butler pulling IT away
 
#39
Not disagreeing with your read on what happened that game - I agree. Nevertheless, it was a hostility between DMC and IT ... it wasn't Rudy Gay or Caron Butler pulling IT away
Yeah, but my read on that situation was that Rudy would be more of a guy who would go shake hands with the other team even after the Clippers pissed all over Sac..... While Cuz, for better or worse, was not afraid to make a stand about the BS. Doesn't really matter anymore I suppose.
 
#40
Oh, I don't know about that. Boston values Brown very highly. I was thinking more like additional draft considerations of some sort.
Only way Brown gets involved is if Cavs balk at taking IT in deal. Seems like Cavs would need a PG back so it could be a deal breaker although I read a tweet that internally, Cavs are happy with IT, Crowder but ecstatic about the draft pick.
 
#41
Well, there you have it: who can impeach the integrity of the old man who works outside the locker room? o_O

But let's stipulate that the truth is one hundred percent as you say it is: 'hated' is past tense, and it's not uncommon for
players who used to hate each other to end up as teammates down the road, without it being a problem.
Believe what you want, I don't really give a s***. I've only been on this board for 10 years and also mentioned Jerry Reynolds told me damn near the same story. What do I have to gain by making this up anyway? Nothing.
 
#42
Looks to me like another attempt to downplay something our **** FO did. DMC's the reason the IT situation played out the way it did because they "hated each other"? Give me a break; the IT situation as usual is on the FO.
Looks to me like a rookie who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Another attempt to down play a mistake by our front office? Good lord, do you think anyone on this board would defend or take the side of our front office on any past move???

How many games did you actually watch when DMC and IT were here? Cousins would ***** and moan every time IT would call him out to reset a pick. Rightfully so at times, IT would reset the pick 3 or 4 times in one possession all the time and treat Cousins like a utility big. That's just the most obvious example. Both guys are alphas with big egos. We were are bad team with no leadership, things went bad and they had to pick a guy to roll with. If anyone says they would have taken IT over Cousins at the time, they're lying.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

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Staff member
#43
Believe what you want, I don't really give a s***. I've only been on this board for 10 years and also mentioned Jerry Reynolds told me damn near the same story. What do I have to gain by making this up anyway? Nothing.
First of All™, go ahead and find anywhere in my post where I accused you of making anything up. I'll wait. Second of All, you quoted my whole post but, based on your response, you clearly only read half of it.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#44
... How many games did you actually watch when DMC and IT were here? Cousins would ***** and moan every time IT would call him out to reset a pick...
But that's the thing, though: Cousins bitches and moans so much, I wouldn't necessarily take that as proof that he hates anybody. He could just as easily be a person who's just like that. Like, I'm pretty sure that he hates Chris Paul but, besides him... ?
 
#45
Only way Brown gets involved is if Cavs balk at taking IT in deal. Seems like Cavs would need a PG back so it could be a deal breaker although I read a tweet that internally, Cavs are happy with IT, Crowder but ecstatic about the draft pick.
See I feel like the draft pick should have gotten this done alone when you've got a guy that wants out. but you gotta match salaries and the Cavs are also in win now mode so they need an immediate replacement at PG where IT becomes a bit problematic if he is not a starter, so it all makes some sense. But I think Ainge could have done a lot better except the clock was ticking and he feared he'd run out of time before he had to start signing assets to market contracts so he panicked.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
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Contributor
#46
Believe what you want, I don't really give a s***. I've only been on this board for 10 years and also mentioned Jerry Reynolds told me damn near the same story. What do I have to gain by making this up anyway? Nothing.
In the interest of fairness, I don't think Slim was accusing you of making anything up. I think (and could easily be wrong) he was saying more that your source (the old man outside the locker room) could have his own bias that slants what he repeats.

For what it's worth, I also heard that there was no love lost between DMC and IT and that there were multiple occasions where things got very tense in the locker room. BUT I wasn't in the locker room, didn't hear anything directly and as much as I trusted the people I was hearing things from, I had to admit their potential biases.

Regardless of the truth behind the rumors, you made an extremely valid point. Both IT and DMC were alpha males. In addition, both had chips on their shoulders you could build a house on and both were out to prove something to themselves, to the Kings, to the league and to the world at large. And that put them at loggerheads more than once.

Bottom line is they're both gone now and in all honesty the Kings franchise is better for it. And that, as an avid DMC fan, is something I don't think I could had ever seen myself saying until I experienced Kings fandom post DMC drama.
 
#48
It will be interesting to see how Danny Ainge responds to Koby Altman's asking for more due to the hip injury. Apparently IT was playing with a bad hip for a while and what happened in the Playoffs was a "reinjury". I would be surprised if Ainge gives up more than a late 1st to make the deal work out now that the Cav's are balking. What if IT is removed from the deal and replaced with Rozier or Smart and a additional pick. IT would need to be traded elsewhere. What team would want IT in his condition?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#49
5'9" with a bad hip isn't a great selling point.

While I don't think there will be any team out there refusing to take IT, I wouldn't be surprised to see teams just start lowballing the hell out of the Cavs to acquire him
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#51
But that's the thing, though: Cousins bitches and moans so much, I wouldn't necessarily take that as proof that he hates anybody. He could just as easily be a person who's just like that. Like, I'm pretty sure that he hates Chris Paul but, besides him... ?
Dennis Shroder
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#57
Looks like Boston is sending a 2nd rounder to complete the trade. Seems like a strange trade for Ainge to blow this many assets on, but whatever.

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/08/...de-second-round-pick-complete-trade-cleveland
Yeah, I definitely find it odd that Ainge was completely unwilling to spend any assets whatsoever on a proven superstar like Paul George or Jimmy Butler but more than willing to throw away a bunch of key pieces (the Brooklyn pick, a PG who was getting MVP votes last season, his super roleplayer starting SF, a good solid rookie big) for a guy who in his last stint as alpha dog was routinely getting outproduced by IT.

One can make the legitimate argument that a Horford/Morris/Brown/Hayward/Kyrie lineup wouldn't be able to beat their Horford/Amir/Jae/Bradley/IT squad of last season.
 
#58
Yeah, I definitely find it odd that Ainge was completely unwilling to spend any assets whatsoever on a proven superstar like Paul George or Jimmy Butler but more than willing to throw away a bunch of key pieces (the Brooklyn pick, a PG who was getting MVP votes last season, his super roleplayer starting SF, a good solid rookie big) for a guy who in his last stint as alpha dog was routinely getting outproduced by IT.

One can make the legitimate argument that a Horford/Morris/Brown/Hayward/Kyrie lineup wouldn't be able to beat their Horford/Amir/Jae/Bradley/IT squad of last season.
I think the main point is, that Stevens doesn't need to change his system at all with the addition of Irving for IT. The Celtics are used to play off a scoring PG and they are used to cover that PG on D. Hayward is a good defender and an overall upgrade over Crowder. Smart is able to take Bradleys role on D, while Tatum and Brown mature. Amir wasn't a heavy minutes guy, because Stevens likes to downsize. Morris fits Stevens prefered playstyle way better and could serve as a full time starter at PF.
Irvings last stint as an alpha dog was 2013-14 and Irving was 21 years old, playing on a team featuring young and stupid Dion Waiters and Luol Deng as the next two best players. I think it's reasonable to expect a bit more out of him after plenty of finals experiences and with a much better team tailormade for his playstyle. The biggest questionmark with Irving is his health, but IT's hip made this red flag a lot less scary.
Irving is pretty much the same player IT's is, but younger, bigger, currently healthy and under contract for the next two seasons at a reasonable 20 millions per year. IT won't take anything less than the max next year, if he gets healthy and he will be past his prime once Tatum and Brown are ready.

Jimmy Butler feels a bit too ISO heavy at the wing for the ball moving addict Stevens. I think Hayward is the better fit (better shooter/ball handler).
Passing on Paul George is the real questionmark, but maybe his affinity for the Lakers played a part in that.

I think the trade will turn out ok for the Celtics. Yes they overpaid a bit, when you look at the return for other stars like Butler, but Irving is a solid fit and a top-5 PG in his early prime. I'm a bit worried about the chemistry and the team identity, because Bradley and Crowder seemed to be key players in that regard, but Hayward looks like a guy from the same blue collar mold, so maybe with him and Smart as the most likely leaders it will be the same "no nonsense" type of approach that made the Celtics an enjoyable team to watch.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

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Staff member
#59
I think the main point is, that Stevens doesn't need to change his system at all with the addition of Irving for IT. The Celtics are used to play off a scoring PG and they are used to cover that PG on D.
This is true. However, comma...

Hayward is a good defender and an overall upgrade over Crowder.
Eeeeeh... He's not as good a defender as Crowder and, while better on offense, it's questionable whether he's really that much better. But, more to the point, there's no significant precedent for Hayward being comfortable in the role that Crowder had in Stevens' offense. Boston is laying a lot of hope in Hayward being cool with his shots potentially being cut by as much as a third.

Smart is able to take Bradleys role on D
Is he? I mean, maybe it's just me, but Marcus Smart seems to have the most undeserved reputation as a good defender this side of Kobe Bryant.

I think that Boston has improved talent-wise, but I also think that Stevens is going to have to adjust his system in order for it to work with the players they now have, and I am less than convinced how that adjustment is going to play out.
 
#60
Yeah, I definitely find it odd that Ainge was completely unwilling to spend any assets whatsoever on a proven superstar like Paul George or Jimmy Butler but more than willing to throw away a bunch of key pieces (the Brooklyn pick, a PG who was getting MVP votes last season, his super roleplayer starting SF, a good solid rookie big) for a guy who in his last stint as alpha dog was routinely getting outproduced by IT.

One can make the legitimate argument that a Horford/Morris/Brown/Hayward/Kyrie lineup wouldn't be able to beat their Horford/Amir/Jae/Bradley/IT squad of last season.
I think he can certainly be second guessed but it seems like they wanted to make a big signing and a trade and they weren't going to do the trade until they had the signed player in place. George was traded before Hayward became official, if I recall?

Celts are a team I like and while I am ok with the trade I don't really like it either. But I guess I'd be slightly more comfortable maxing our Kyrie than I would IT, and that is the reality Ainge faces, and he bought one more year with Kyrie too.