Trade rumors involving the Kings
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Glenn
Hall of Famer
I hope future trades are geared towards the long term improvement of the Kings and getting Miller doesn't do that. In fact, it ties up at least one player for future more useful trades.
bloom
Starter
I agree. Ever since I heard about that trade I felt it was odd that we'd go after a guy that also doesn't seem like he'd be in our future plans & does't really give us anything that would be that much greater than what we already have.
It would be smart to use that trade to unload contracts.. I don't know if JT has a future with the kings or not, but you do know that we'll be stuck in lottery after lottery after lottery if we don't ever decide to make changes and starting contending. Jack helped the GSW's playoff run and was a main contribution for their bench.. so was Landry, but they didn't see them as their long term plan and didn't retain them. Miller is only signed for another 2 years so why not? It's not like he would hurt the kings in anyway, but could actually improve our overall team. We can have a playoff team with both DMC and Gay. We just need the right pieces. If we're going to focus on our future, I'd rather us not retain Gay after his contracts up.
I think the FO traded for Gay and signed Landry for a reason.. they want to win next year and I see Andre Miller bringing that. He solves our backup pg problem unless the FO decides to draft for a PG in the draft. However, I would agree with you also. If we can get better players, then I'd do it, but I just don't see it. I'm not even sure if Jimmer nor Thornton can even fetch us a 2nd round pick.
bloom
Starter
I guess we can agree to disagree. I don't think that Andre is going to help our team right now or next year. I've already mentioned that I feel like he's a lot slower, his defense isn't good and I think that there might be other options (even though I'm not sure who it is at this moment). But I'd rather keep both Jimmer and Marcus instead of getting Andre.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Kings hierarchy are in a very interesting position and a decision needs to be made one way or the other before the trade deadline. First and most important decision at this point is whether or not IT is our PG going forward and if so, how much are we prepared to pay to sign him up long term. I am of belief that he is best used as a spark plug guard off the bench where he can gun as much as he wants but I am not sure he agrees and I am more and more convinced that there will be a team out there that would drop a big price on IT which if we match might come back to bite us on the ass.
But lets assume that IT is our guy and we are going forward building around out Cuz-Gay-IT trio. If this is the case, then the PF and the SG positions cannot be anything more than defensive role players that live off the defensive scraps. A defensive, shot-blocking, rebounding anchor at PF who cares very little about his offence and lives of put backs and scraps. A 3 and D type at SG who can defend 2-3 perimeter positions and knocks down 3s off kick outs at a very respectable clip. These two guys just about have to be perennial all-defence type guys at their position.
The bench would need to be beefed up in a major way filled with defensive role players who can be effective without scoring. Obviously we would need one scorer off the bench, possibly in Landry since the front office seem to be in love with this guy. I would rather have JT off the bench but that is another debate all together. Is D-Will now part of the plans going forward. If so, Williams-Landry pairing off the bench becomes a bit of a problem for us. Not enough minutes and some positional crunch.
If IT is our starting PG going forward, then the back up needs to be a steady veteran who is a good defender and more of a quarter back that can provide some spacing.
In ideal world, IT is our 6th man but I don't think that is realistic because he will be earning a starter money come next season and probably more importantly, he WANTS to be a starter which in itself is problematic for us.
I think after the trade period ends, we will have a much clearer picture where the hierarchy sees IT. If we keep him then its a given that we think he is our man and we are committed to paying him big $$$. There is no way in hell that we let two talents go for practically nothing in two consecutive off-seasons. As a small market team we simply cannot afford to do that. IT might be all sorts of "uncomfortable" fit for this team but he is too darn talented to let go for 10 cents of the dollar.
But lets assume that IT is our guy and we are going forward building around out Cuz-Gay-IT trio. If this is the case, then the PF and the SG positions cannot be anything more than defensive role players that live off the defensive scraps. A defensive, shot-blocking, rebounding anchor at PF who cares very little about his offence and lives of put backs and scraps. A 3 and D type at SG who can defend 2-3 perimeter positions and knocks down 3s off kick outs at a very respectable clip. These two guys just about have to be perennial all-defence type guys at their position.
The bench would need to be beefed up in a major way filled with defensive role players who can be effective without scoring. Obviously we would need one scorer off the bench, possibly in Landry since the front office seem to be in love with this guy. I would rather have JT off the bench but that is another debate all together. Is D-Will now part of the plans going forward. If so, Williams-Landry pairing off the bench becomes a bit of a problem for us. Not enough minutes and some positional crunch.
If IT is our starting PG going forward, then the back up needs to be a steady veteran who is a good defender and more of a quarter back that can provide some spacing.
In ideal world, IT is our 6th man but I don't think that is realistic because he will be earning a starter money come next season and probably more importantly, he WANTS to be a starter which in itself is problematic for us.
I think after the trade period ends, we will have a much clearer picture where the hierarchy sees IT. If we keep him then its a given that we think he is our man and we are committed to paying him big $$$. There is no way in hell that we let two talents go for practically nothing in two consecutive off-seasons. As a small market team we simply cannot afford to do that. IT might be all sorts of "uncomfortable" fit for this team but he is too darn talented to let go for 10 cents of the dollar.
randymoss1881
Starter
Afflalo will be to hard to get but sanders on draft day we could get for our pick/sanders. Sanders however will have to improve and prove he can play the way he did last year.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
How many contracts can we absorb that are over $10 mil without getting into luxury tax range? We already are paying Gay and Cuz $34 mill next year. If we get Sanders, it's another $11 mil. Can we then afford IT and everybody else under contract? Add it up and you will find a problem.
randymoss1881
Starter
If sanders proves he can get back to last years play than it's just 3 players over 10mill. DMC/Gay both get 15mill that would be our # 1 and 2 scorer than our defensive big is our last player at 11mill. Ben is still on a rookie contract and we resign IT to 6-8mill. That's 53 towards our starting lineup
Other small market teams starting lineup salary:
Golden state (53mill)
Memphis (52mill)
OKC (58mill)
We would be set up salary wise like other small market teams it would than have to be
1. How good will our role players be 2. Is DMC/gay a championship 1/2 punch
ParniValjak
All-Star
I can guarantee you that IT will get more than $6m. He will likely get offers in the $8-11M range. $6m is just around the MLE money and he will certainly get that. Easily. IT might be all sort of wrong fit for this team but he is still a very talented scorer that will get very strong interest from other teams
S
SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
Yeah, that's about all he can do on the basketball floor.
If a player can't defend his opponent, he should not make more than 6 million. I know most teams out there will certainly know all of this already.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Carmelo Anthony, Amaré, etc...
There MANY highly paid NBA players out there who cannot or will not defend but are getting paid over $6million.
Just because that is the price you set, it does not mean that there are no teams out there who will pay considerably more.
OJ Mayo can't defend either yet he earned himself $8 million per season over 3 years. He is just another example. IT will get significant offers no doubt. Just like people thought Evans would get $6-8m because he could not shoot, then many were shell shocked when he got $11million.
randymoss1881
Starter
Melo and amera were all nba teamers who impacted the team more and could be built around.
Also oj mayo is already talked about around the league as having a bad contract and he plays better defense than IT. PDA is known as a cap genius I'm sure he won't go over 7mill max
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Last night in the wee hours of the morning I checked all the salaries of the Kings under contract. We are coming very close to the luxury tax and under some scenarios I have seen posted, we will go over the luxury tax. That has severe consequences. It might be reasonable to go over the luxury tax if we could win the NBA championship. That's not next year so we need to be careful. I am not the detailed type of guy to follow through with the argument but we cannot tolerate another big salary guy in large part because of Rudy and Cuz make $32 mil between them next year but also becaue we have middle income guys making more than they are either worth or that we can afford like Landry/JT/MT. I don't want to get tied up in details as I like JT but Landry and MT have us painted into a financial corner.
I don't think we will be able to afford IT no matter what role he might play for us. We have our stars. Now we need inexpensive complimentary parts and IT is not one of those. I also don't think we can afford Sanders whether he is a good guy or an all star.
macadocious
Starter
I love how you just inferred you are also a cap genius.
As of right now, we're at about $67.3M for ten players under contract next year, and our first round pick is probably going to be in the $2.5M range, so let's just call it $70M for 11 players. We only need to sign two players to get to minimum roster requirements. If IT costs us seven, then that puts us at $77M, spend another $1M on that last player and we're at $78M. The luxury tax is $71.7M this year but will likely go up, let's say to about $73M. So under that scenario (where we do basically nothing) we're about $5M over the tax. That would be taxed at $1.50 on the dollar, so it would cost us an extra $7.5M, for a total of about $85.5M.
That's not a crushing salary cap blow. Furthermore, we have a ton coming off the books for the very next season (2015-2016). Gay/Thornton/Williams/Outlaw/Acy would all come off. Even counting the continuing IT contract and the 2014 draft pick (we would probably lose our 2015 draft pick under this scenario) we'd be at about $44.5M - leaving us enough money to sign Gay and be well under the salary cap (much less the tax) with an 8-player roster of:
IT/RayMc
Ben/ (2014 draft pick)
Gay
JT/Landry
Cuz
And you fill in from there with $10M+ of cap space. Of course, that's all assuming we don't find a way to dump off one of those contracts in trade - and I'd say some sort of trade is likely to happen. At any rate, we'd be in tax problems for one year tops before getting back out.
I do agree that Sanders+IT is probably not going to be viable cap-wise, though if we traded MT for Sanders that would alleviate it a lot. But I'm also not very high on Sanders because he has had a very poor season after getting paid, and he appears to be far less than a model citizen on top of that.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Nice writeup. And all that assumes that Gay doesn't opt out (I'm still not sure which I think is more likely). If he opts out and signs an extension at, say, $13 million a year, you can re-sign IT for that $7 million figure and stay just under the tax.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
This is about as optimistic as you can get and it assumes that $85.5 mil is not an amount that makes Ranadive blink. Anyway fact is better to deal with than fantasy. Thanks. My bleary eyes were not off.
Edit: My guess about Gay is that he will be approached, in consultation with Cuz, if he would accept a long term extension at the same salary as Cuz. He shouldn't make more that Cuz and in the money sense, it makes Gay and Cuz co-leaders which I think they are on the court also.
LT is calculated on June, 30th, so Kings still have a lot of time. They can swap expiring deal of Thornton along with cash for smaller expiring at the next deadline. New CBA also brought this thing called stretch provision. If Kings waive Thornton next year, they can "stretch" his salary over three years with cap and LT hit being $2,858,333 for next and another two years instead of full $8,575,000 for just next year. Same can be done with Outlaw, if dropping $2 million is enough to get under Luxury Tax.
Restrictions to ensure smooth transition from last CBA to the new one end after this season, so LT is expected to be around $76 million.
Restrictions to ensure smooth transition from last CBA to the new one end after this season, so LT is expected to be around $76 million.
ParniValjak
All-Star
That is such a flawed logic. PDA is a cap genius who traded for one of the worst contracts in the league in Rudy Gay.
If you keep setting that price and not go over it, you will NEVER be good. You will continue bleeding talent and be stuck in mediocrity. Good teams keep their talent or cash them in and replace them with cheaper, equal or better talents.
Fact is that every single NBA player is overpaid. The average players or just above average more so than the stars or superstars. There is not a team in the NBA that does not have an overpaid player. Just look at us, there is half a roster of them but fact is, the market is set by the teams so if someone is willing to pay Tyreke Evans $11 million a season, that IS his worth. To you he might be a $7 million per season player but other team values him higher.
I personally would not pay IT more than the MLE but the fact is he IS worth more than that and a team out there will be giving him more and unless the Kings trade him prior to the trade deadline, they are more likely to match than not.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Here's the question! Do you think that Cousins, Gay, IT, McLemore, and Sanders, is a championship core? Can you envision that core beating the Thunder, the Spurs etc. Because if it isn't, then you don't do it. What if you take in Sanders at 11 mil a year, and he doesn't play up the standard that got him that contract. What then?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Remember, Thornton comes off the books after next year. Next year he's an ending contract, so it will be eassier to move as well. JT is another story, but JT's contract is reasonable, and he's a player that some other teams would love to have off the bench. He's versatile in that he can play both center and PF. So I think JT could be traded if that's our desire. That said, we'll certainly have no cap space to play with this coming off season. The following year, depending on what we do in between, we should have quite a bit of cap space.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I hope when the ticket prices sky rocket that people understand that the $85.5 mil the organization pays next year has to come from somewhere.
randymoss1881
Starter
Agreed we would have to believe we can become a contender to do a trade for sanders. 4 things to me would have to happen for us to be contenders with that team.
1. Cousins has to continue to get better and become a 25-12 monster 2. Gay settles (comes back to earth a bit) and becomes a 18-7 scorer shooting 50%
3. Mclemore becomes our 3rd scorer and settles in at 15-5
4. Sanders gives us Ibaka like defense
I would take a main core of Cousins, Gay, mclemore, and sanders over these other playoff teams:
Houston: Harden, Howard, Parsons
Clippers: Paul, Blake, Jordan
Portland: Lillard, Aldridge, Batum
Golden State: Curry, Klay, Lee
macadocious
Starter
None if those teams will win a title.
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