Trade Deadline Thread

gunks said:
Yeah, the anti-Fox crowd is crazy for blaming him for the Kings woes.

Dude is an elite scorer, and sure his shooting and playmaking leaves a lot to be desired from a PG, but in todays day and age, you can get players 1-5 with that in their skill set to balance out a roster.

Where else are we going to get an elite scorer?

I'm down to trade Fox from a "roster balance" perspective, since it's looking more and more like McNair killed it in the draft 2 years in a row, but simultaneously shot himself in the foot as far as roster construction....

But the "we can't win with Fox" logic is dumb.

We can't win with the awful coaching he's had for the majority of his career, the terrible supporting cast (Buddy is garbo, everyone else would be a bench player on a playoff team), and an owner that never learns from his mistakes, but keeps making them.

A competent GM could absolutely win with Fox. I think this has been brought up, but swap him and Mitchell on the Jazz and both team records probably stay the same.
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One dude is a multi-year all star, who is a top 15 player. The other is fielding offers that return Randle or Hart. Pretty certain the league doesn’t agree with you that #5 is in the same tier as #45.
 
SacTownKid said:
I can't wait until the rumors of Dame for Haliburton/Mitchell/filler/picks start. This is where Monte is almost boxed into making a move. He's has young pieces shining and a legit star type in Fox. Could go either way.
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A Fox-Lillard backcourt would certainly make for some entertaining basketball. They might average 70 and give up 90 between them. Forget the play-in they could be the first team to score 200.
 
kb02 said:
One dude is a multi-year all star, who is a top 15 player. The other is fielding offers that return Randle or Hart. Pretty certain the league doesn’t agree with you that #5 is in the same tier as #45.
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One dude has great coaching and plays on a team with a defensive anchor (they've been awful without Gobert btw), the other dude has had terrible coaching and a team of Buddy Chuck-its, Harrison "shows up every other game" Barnes and a revolving cast of journeymen on their way out of the league backing him up.

Admittedly Fox didn't do his trade value any favors with his bizarrely poor play and crap attitude to start the year, but he was ballin again before he went out.

I'm not saying Fox is perfect. Between his inconsistent shooting, pedestrian playmaking, horrendous defense, and suddenly sulky persona he's pretty far from perfect, but if we're making a list of everything wrong with this team (a long list), he's near the bottom.

It's Cuz all over again. Super talented, warty player..... horrible FO and coaching leading to a mess and losing record. Player gets the blame.

If Fox was set up for success and still failed it would be one thing, but he's been set up for failure since this dumpster fire franchise drafted him.
 
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kb02 said:
One dude is a multi-year all star, who is a top 15 player. The other is fielding offers that return Randle or Hart. Pretty certain the league doesn’t agree with you that #5 is in the same tier as #45.
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Results matter, but Donovan could not have been blessed with a better team context than he got. DPOY, the best shooting/supporting cast and a top 5 coach in basketball.

Skill/Talent wise, there's not a big a gap as the accolades suggest.
 
steelevt said:
Everyone crapping on fox for “regressing” from 25pt/7asst/3rb (47.7fg%/32.2 3pt%/71.9ft%) to 21/5/3 (45.8fg%/24.8 3pt%/74.7ft% after signing a contract should maybe take a look at Randle’s numbers after signing his extension.
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just say no to Randle period


gunks said:
Yeah, the anti-Fox crowd is crazy for blaming him for the Kings woes.

Dude is an elite scorer, and sure his shooting and playmaking leaves a lot to be desired from a PG, but in todays day and age, you can get players 1-5 with that in their skill set to balance out a roster.

Where else are we going to get an elite scorer?

I'm down to trade Fox from a "roster balance" perspective, since it's looking more and more like McNair killed it in the draft 2 years in a row, but simultaneously shot himself in the foot as far as roster construction....

But the "we can't win with Fox" logic is dumb.

We can't win with the awful coaching he's had for the majority of his career, the terrible supporting cast (Buddy is garbo, everyone else would be a bench player on a playoff team), and an owner that never learns from his mistakes, but keeps making them.

A competent GM could absolutely win with Fox. I think this has been brought up, but swap him and Mitchell on the Jazz and both team records probably stay the same.
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lol this is just like the absurd he’s better than Morant talk
 
BOS Gets: Buddy Hield, Devonte' Graham, Mo Harkless, & Alex Len
BOS Gives: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, Aaron Nesmith, & Payton Pritchard
Why for BOS? Get out of the luxury tax this season, free up time for R. Williams as the full time C (no more Williams-Horford combo), and add much needed floor spacing in Hield & Graham around Smart-Brown-Tatum-Williams.

NOP Gets: De'Aaron Fox & Jahmi'us Ramsey
NOP Gives: Devonte' Graham, Tomas Satoransky, Trey Murphy, & 2022 NOP 1st (Unprotected)
Why for NOP? Bring in Fox to help them win now.

SAC Gets: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, Tomas Satoransky, Aaron Nesmith, Trey Murphy, Payton Pritchard, & 2022 NOP 1st (Unprotected)
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & Jahmi'us Ramsey
Why for SAC? Sell part of the farm for some young assets & picks.



Follow it up with the Holmes for PJ Washington/Ish Smith trade and the Barnes for Patrick Williams/Derrick Jones trades and you'd have:

PG - Mitchell / Pritchard / Satoransky / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Richardson / Davis
SF - Murphy / Nesmith / Woodard / Jones
PF - Washington / P. Williams / Bagley / Metu
C - Horford / Jones / Thompson
Picks - 2022 SAC 1st & 2022 NOP 1st (Unprotected)

Going into the 2022 offseason we'd have the following players still under contract:

PG - Mitchell / Pritchard
SG - Haliburton / Richardson / Davis
SF - Murphy / Nesmith / Woodard
PF - Washington / P. Williams / Metu
C - Horford
Picks - 2022 SAC 1st & 2022 NOP 1st (Unprotected)
 
kb02 said:
One dude is a multi-year all star, who is a top 15 player. The other is fielding offers that return Randle or Hart. Pretty certain the league doesn’t agree with you that #5 is in the same tier as #45.
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Gee, seem to remember a lot of people thinking quite a bit about Fox last year when used right.
 
gunks said:
One dude has great coaching and plays on a team with a defensive anchor (they've been awful without Gobert btw), the other dude has had terrible coaching and a team of Buddy Chuck-its, Harrison "shows up every other game" Barnes and a revolving cast of journeymen on their way out of the league backing him up.

Admittedly Fox didn't do his trade value any favors with his bizarrely poor play and crap attitude to start the year, but he was ballin again before he went out.

I'm not saying Fox is perfect. Between his inconsistent shooting, pedestrian playmaking, horrendous defense, and suddenly sulky persona he's pretty far from perfect, but if we're making a list of everything wrong with this team (a long list), he's near the bottom.

It's Cuz all over again. Super talented, warty player..... horrible FO and coaching leading to a mess and losing record. Player gets the blame.

If Fox was set up for success and still failed it would be one thing, but he's been set up for failure since this dumpster fire franchise drafted him.
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But George Hill, Cory Joseph, and a crop of other PG's pushing him off the ball really should have worked right? lol. After like 5 tries with 1 season of Fox having that spot to himself where he put up star numbers just shows how dumb this organization is. Nobody is saying Fox is a GOAT, but if you can't see his talent level next to just about anything else on this roster, you're trying too hard not to.
 
Apropos of nothing, really, but the superstitious, lizard-brained side of me thinks that Fox lost something when he hacked off all of his glorious hair. Yes, he had a career year last season, but there was real bounce and ebullience to his game before he buzzed that wonderful, madcap afro. He hasn't felt like the same dazzlingly joyous player ever since.
 
Padrino said:
Apropos of nothing, really, but the superstitious, lizard-brained side of me thinks that Fox lost something when he hacked off all of his glorious hair. Yes, he had a career year last season, but there was real bounce and ebullience to his game before he buzzed that wonderful, madcap afro. He hasn't felt like the same dazzlingly joyous player ever since.
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I think it’s simpler than that. Buddy and Fox both look like they’ve been visiting the local McDs after practice everyday.
 
Lol this is Demarcus Cousins all over again with some of you, treating Fox like some kinda bona fide superstar whose only fault was being picked by the Kings and never applying the same generous criteria with other players. This is why we will never be good.

"Elite" scorers on bad teams that don't elevate their teammates are so easy to find. Heck Harrison Barnes can easily average 25 on this team as the main guy.

It's so funny that Kings fans will look at other teams' players and say "well he's only this good because he plays with XXX star", but with Fox who is supposed to be the franchise guy they say "well he's only this bad because the role players around him suck"

Fox will probably be an all star 4 years down the road when he's the 3rd or 4th best player on his team ala Wiggins.
 
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mac said:
Lol this is Demarcus Cousins all over again with some of you, treating Fox like some kinda bona fide superstar whose only fault was being picked by the Kings and never applying the same generous criteria with other players. This is why we will never be good.

"Elite" scorers on bad teams that don't elevate their teammates are so easy to find. Heck Harrison Barnes can easily average 25 on this team as the main guy.
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Yeah, and the point is let them show out instead of taking lesser talent and allowing them to chip away at their individual success. Shine a few players up real nice, then if you need to trade THEN trade them. Don't diminish them then do it. THAT is why this franchise will never be good. Good when players float around to different dream teams every year is also a tough deal to break into. Have to time it just right and go all in at the right time. If you don't build those guys like Fox/Barnes then it's much, much more difficult and if you start maxing them out or paying out big money then diminish them then you're just sinking even deeper.
 
mac said:
Lol this is Demarcus Cousins all over again with some of you, treating Fox like some kinda bona fide superstar whose only fault was being picked by the Kings and never applying the same generous criteria with other players. This is why we will never be good.

"Elite" scorers on bad teams that don't elevate their teammates are so easy to find. Heck Harrison Barnes can easily average 25 on this team as the main guy.

It's so funny that Kings fans will look at other teams' players and say "well he's only this good because he plays with XXX star", but with Fox who is supposed to be the franchise guy they say "well he's only this bad because the role players around him suck"

Fox will probably be an all star 4 years down the road when he's the 3rd or 4th best player on his team ala Wiggins.
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Or he can be an allstar once he gets better players around him and the team does well ala devin booker. An almost allstar that was seen as just a scorer on a bad team that only made a legit allstar appearance (was an allstar before due to injuries) after adding cp3. Players with comparable stats always get shafted when the team has a lower winning percentage. The smart thing to do is add on to your good players and not trade them away as soon as you add 1 more good piece.
 
Padrino said:
Apropos of nothing, really, but the superstitious, lizard-brained side of me thinks that Fox lost something when he hacked off all of his glorious hair. Yes, he had a career year last season, but there was real bounce and ebullience to his game before he buzzed that wonderful, madcap afro. He hasn't felt like the same dazzlingly joyous player ever since.
Click to expand...

It was all downhill when the NBA banned ninja headbands.
 
steelevt said:
Or he can be an allstar once he gets better players around him and the team does well ala devin booker. An almost allstar that was seen as just a scorer on a bad team that only made a legit allstar appearance (was an allstar before due to injuries) after adding cp3. Players with comparable stats always get shafted when the team has a lower winning percentage. The smart thing to do is add on to your good players and not trade them away as soon as you add 1 more good piece.
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Have you seen Booker's number even before CP3 came? He is not close to Devin Booker lol. I would even doubt if he can be a Wiggins type of role because his skillset is a lead guard.
 
I want Randle, but I don't want to trade Fox for him. I think a trio of Fox, Hali, and Randle would be potent, I just dont think anyone wants any of our other players.

I would be perfectly fine trading everyone else for picks and letting the G league guys get some burn, shut down Fox, and look towards the draft.
 
cwebb2002 said:
THIS. I like hali so dont get this wrong, but people think Fox is not a winner when the team has loaded him with a barnes, some deep bench players on most teams and expect them to win. Finally, we get him some help with Hali and before they can develop, we are ready for a trade. Look at the Suns, they drafted over and over witg zero success but stuck with the diamond they found in Booker. They made one financially risky trade but consequential trade for paul and it transformed Booker into a legit MVP candidate. The team sucked for years with booker, but he was not the problem. They smartly held on to him as long as possible and when they put some prospects (for us it would be Hali and Mitchell) around him and still went nowhere. They made a singular trade and the whole thing clicked. Move on from scrub pieces, be willing to take some risky bets on historically good players and it could work.
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Booker is a career 35% 3pt shooter . If Fox could get to that number no one would want him traded.
 
kb02 said:
I think it’s simpler than that. Buddy and Fox both look like they’ve been visiting the local McDs after practice everyday.
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Buddy's apathy is easily explained by being on the trading block for as long as he's been. It's certainly not that simple for Fox. He isn't just out of shape or disengaged. He's barely a shadow of the firecracker player and personality he was before this season. Whatever's preventing him from being at his best physically/mentally, it's certainly more than a weakness for fast food.
 
Dongoodboy said:
Have you seen Booker's number even before CP3 came? He is not close to Devin Booker lol. I would even doubt if he can be a Wiggins type of role because his skillset is a lead guard.
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Booker drew Empty Stats Guy™ criticisms for years. Most fans do not think very highly of most players who post big numbers on losing teams... until they start winning. Then the narrative dramatically changes, and all of a sudden a player like Fox is no longer in the same league as a player like Booker... until Fox starts winning. And the cycle perpetuates itself.
 
Padrino said:
Booker drew Empty Stats Guy™ criticisms for years. Most fans do not think very highly of most players who post big numbers on losing teams... until they start winning. Then the narrative dramatically changes, and all of a sudden a player like Fox is no longer in the same league as a player like Booker... until Fox starts winning. And the cycle perpetuates itself.
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Not all empty stats are equal. No one bother to call Fox an empty stat guy now. I believe he will be better under a different environment but it is a different story to quote Booker or even Mitchell as an example to support this statement, at least for now.
 
steelevt said:
Or he can be an allstar once he gets better players around him and the team does well ala devin booker. An almost allstar that was seen as just a scorer on a bad team that only made a legit allstar appearance (was an allstar before due to injuries) after adding cp3. Players with comparable stats always get shafted when the team has a lower winning percentage. The smart thing to do is add on to your good players and not trade them away as soon as you add 1 more good piece.
Click to expand...

But the problem is how do you add on in our situation? Keep in mind that Booker and the Suns had a good end to the year before CP3 joined them too (the year Booker was an all star by replacement), so it's not quite the same as our team that is floundering, and I'd argue Booker had shown a lot more consistency as a legit elite scorer than Fox has. Had Fox come out strong this year, we'd be having a very very different conversation right now. The other point, is that Booker is a 6'5 SG and a much better shooter than Fox is. That's a lot easier to complement and build around than a score-first PG who isn't a good shooter.

And as Padrino aptly put it, the whole problem is that it's a cycle, and it needs to be viewed as a cycle. Booker absolutely deserved to be criticized as an empty stats guy, until he wasn't, and the same should apply to Fox. Put it this way, if in 2019 the Suns proposed to trade Booker for Fox and multiple picks, what would you have said? Probably something like "young budding talent and picks for a glorified chucker? Hell naw!". But some fans here think that's what Fox should fetch now.

So you're absolutely right, the best value for us is if we somehow put better pieces on this team that will elevate Fox's game. I just don't see how you do that, because no big name free agent is coming here. So best option #2 to me is use Fox that get a better piece that will elevate Hali's game instead.
 
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