Trade Deadline Rumors

[hrdboild]

Even if I agreed with those players filling those roles, how exactly would we eliminate the current players while bringing in those guys? While also improving our backcourt?

I already talked about this in the post I made last night and in other topics over the past two months. O'Quinn is a free agent (restricted). Robinson is a free agent (unrestricted). Noel might be available because Philly will trade anyone for a lottery pick and he's got some clear limitations which will probably keep him from being a franchise player. With Joel Embiid expected to play next year plus Dario Saric coming over from the Turkish league and a top 5 pick this year, they may not be able to develop all of those frontcourt players at once. I think our pick this year plus Stauskas gets their attention. Especially if that top 5 protected Lakers pick rolls over to next year. Finding a starting PF is a bigger priority than backup SG. If we can't get Noel there are also some interesting options in the draft. Cauley-Stein is a similar player -- extremely mobile for a big man and a capable shotblocker. Or there's Myles Turner, who just blocked 11 shots in his last 2 games (both against top 15 teams) and is averaging 2.8 per game along with some ability to hit the three.

As for losing the current guys, Williams, Evans, and Hollins are free agents. How do we get rid of Landry and Thompson? Include one of them in a Kyle O'Quinn sign-and-trade perhaps. Try to trade the other one for a guard. If you're not too picky about what's coming back, I think you can find a taker for one of them. 6.5 million a year for 2 years isn't an overpay for a mediocre veteran PF. At the guard spots we currently have Collison and McCallum signed for next year at PG and Ben at SG. Andre Miller has indicated he's willing to return for another year so we'd be more than set at PG. All you're really looking for at that point is a shooter off the bench, maybe a swing SG/SF who can back up both Ben and Rudy. I wouldn't have a problem signing a cheap guy for next year and look for upgrades mid-season or summer 2016 when the salary cap goes up.

And to be clear you would be losing a ton defensively when cuz goes out but trob is in. Robinsons defensive stats are largely driven by his energy but it creates rotation issues and foul problems. He isn't a great defender, he just has the speed and athleticism to get some defensive stats.

I'm talking about team defense. If you have Cousins and Noel as your frontcourt, obviously that's one of the best defensive frontlines in the league so you're going to be losing something when either of them goes to the bench. But if you have Noel and Robinson on the floor or O'Quinn and Robinson, you still have a shotblocker and a rebounder playing together which is ideal and none of them is a defensive liability. Robinson and Noel can chase the quicker PFs around the perimeter and O'Quinn can body up post players. I think that's as good as any team could hope for from their bench rotation. Robinson may not be a defensive stopper of any kind, but that's why you play him alongside a plus defender and have him concentrate on boxing out and controlling the boards. He's very good at defensive rebounding at that's the foundation of any defense. Both Noel and O'Quinn have some playmaking abilities and Robinson can run the floor and finish above the rim so they should compliment each other offensively as well.

 

[ESP47]

Those guys aren't going to compliment each other offensively at all. Our bench would be an offensive black hole with those big men together. I'd take Noel in a second but pair him along side Landry. Two mediocre rebounders but everything else would be complimentary.

Robinson doesn't compliment anyone other than very very good players who can mask his many many weaknesses.

 

[hrdboild]

Those guys aren't going to compliment each other offensively at all. Our bench would be an offensive black hole with those big men together. I'd take Noel in a second but pair him along side Landry. Two mediocre rebounders but everything else would be complimentary.

Robinson doesn't compliment anyone other than very very good players who can mask his many many weaknesses.

I already addressed this (several times) and I don't feel like going in circles. We'll see.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I already talked about this in the post I made last night and in other topics over the past two months. O'Quinn is a free agent (restricted). Robinson is a free agent (unrestricted). Noel might be available because Philly will trade anyone for a lottery pick and he's got some clear limitations which will probably keep him from being a franchise player. With Joel Embiid expected to play next year plus Dario Saric coming over from the Turkish league and a top 5 pick this year, they may not be able to develop all of those frontcourt players at once. I think our pick this year plus Stauskas gets their attention. Especially if that top 5 protected Lakers pick rolls over to next year. Finding a starting PF is a bigger priority than backup SG. If we can't get Noel there are also some interesting options in the draft. Cauley-Stein is a similar player -- extremely mobile for a big man and a capable shotblocker. Or there's Myles Turner, who just blocked 11 shots in his last 2 games (both against top 15 teams) and is averaging 2.8 per game along with some ability to hit the three.

As for losing the current guys, Williams, Evans, and Hollins are free agents. How do we get rid of Landry and Thompson? Include one of them in a Kyle O'Quinn sign-and-trade perhaps. Try to trade the other one for a guard. If you're not too picky about what's coming back, I think you can find a taker for one of them. 6.5 million a year for 2 years isn't an overpay for a mediocre veteran PF. At the guard spots we currently have Collison and McCallum signed for next year at PG and Ben at SG. Andre Miller has indicated he's willing to return for another year so we'd be more than set at PG. All you're really looking for at that point is a shooter off the bench, maybe a swing SG/SF who can back up both Ben and Rudy. I wouldn't have a problem signing a cheap guy for next year and look for upgrades mid-season or summer 2016 when the salary cap goes up.



I'm talking about team defense. If you have Cousins and Noel as your frontcourt, obviously that's one of the best defensive frontlines in the league so you're going to be losing something when either of them goes to the bench. But if you have Noel and Robinson on the floor or O'Quinn and Robinson, you still have a shotblocker and a rebounder playing together which is ideal and none of them is a defensive liability. Robinson and Noel can chase the quicker PFs around the perimeter and O'Quinn can body up post players. I think that's as good as any team could hope for from their bench rotation. Robinson may not be a defensive stopper of any kind, but that's why you play him alongside a plus defender and have him concentrate on boxing out and controlling the boards. He's very good at defensive rebounding at that's the foundation of any defense. Both Noel and O'Quinn have some playmaking abilities and Robinson can run the floor and finish above the rim so they should compliment each other offensively as well.

your overvaluing noel if your gonna give up 2 lotto picks for him.

 

[hrdboild]

your overvaluing noel if your gonna give up 2 lotto picks for him.

1 lotto pick and a bench guard. It's not a move I make lightly. I know what the value of a lotto pick is and I do think Stauskas has a lot of potential. But I also think Ben McLemore is our starter at SG for a long time to come and that means Stauskas is replaceable. Bench shooters who can also play some PG are few and far between but a pure shooter isn't that hard to find. We can afford to give up some long-term potential at one position in exchange for potential at another one. And you always have to give up something to get something.

Noel is such a perfect fit, we're unlikely to find a better one in free agency or the draft. Only 3 players have ever averaged at least 2 blocks and 2 steals per game over the course of a season (David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Gerald Wallace). Noel's per36 averages this season are 1.9 steals and 2.2 blocks. And that's in 30.5 minutes as a 20 year old rookie returning from a major injury. He averaged 2.1 steals and 4.4 blocks in his one season at Kentucky. He's as good a bet as anyone to win several DPOY awards in the future. He can guard 4 positions, and maybe even 5 if he works on his lower body strength. Short of Anthony Davis, I don't think there's a better roving goalkeeper in the league right now. Guys like Ibaka, Jordan, and Drummond rack up blocks but they're not going to be everywhere at once disrupting the passing lanes as well. With an immovable object like Cousins in the post, Noel would have a field day on the defensive end.

There does happen to be a wealth of defensive role-player talent in the top 10 of the draft this year. I would certainly consider taking Myles Turner or Willie Cauley-Stein with that pick if they're available. But we need a defensive PF badly and Noel is ready to step in and contribute right away. That's the one position I'm prepared to overpay for if the fit is right.

 

[Prince_XY]

I agree with Nerlens Noel. The kid seems like a very good defensive big in-the-making. But will he be ready or ripe enough when we reach the playoffs in the near future?

I feel like we're getting another Derrick Williams in Thomas Robinson. A BIG who is not really BIG. The only thing with Robinson is he may come cheaper.

Kyle O'Quinn is good. But is he really good enough to play center against the premier centers?

 

[Gilles]

I agree with Nerlens Noel. The kid seems like a very good defensive big in-the-making. But will he be ready or ripe enough when we reach the playoffs in the near future?

I feel like we're getting another Derrick Williams in Thomas Robinson. A BIG who is not really BIG. The only thing with Robinson is he may come cheaper.

Kyle O'Quinn is good. But is he really good enough to play center against the premier centers?

Kings have another big fella for that. If anyone noticed, O'Quinn is having a very weird season: missed training camp due to injury, but still had good two months, then he misses one game due to "personal reasons", and it was all downhill from there. Now he can't even find PT on a tanking team, that prefers to play Dedmon (low skill/high energy lengthy big). It's not just a lack of time on the floor, his stat rates are seriously down too: it looks like he lost all fire, that he showed in the end of last year, so at this point relying on him for heavy rotation minutes looks like a gamble, unless "personal reasons" along with clear tanking direction (they are 4-5 under new coach though) just caused apathy, that will go away by next October.
As for Noel with MCW and his ball-dominating out Nerlens actually showed some offensive improvements as well, which, I'm sure, his current team noticed too. Don't think 7-9th pick and Stauskas gets you Noel, and those are all Kings assets at the moment.
Robinson was 5-6th big in Portland. Coming to Sacramento for the same is not exactly ideal for him. He will pursue biggest role, he will find in the summer.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

1 lotto pick and a bench guard. It's not a move I make lightly. I know what the value of a lotto pick is and I do think Stauskas has a lot of potential. But I also think Ben McLemore is our starter at SG for a long time to come and that means Stauskas is replaceable. Bench shooters who can also play some PG are few and far between but a pure shooter isn't that hard to find. We can afford to give up some long-term potential at one position in exchange for potential at another one. And you always have to give up something to get something.

Noel is such a perfect fit, we're unlikely to find a better one in free agency or the draft. Only 3 players have ever averaged at least 2 blocks and 2 steals per game over the course of a season (David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Gerald Wallace). Noel's per36 averages this season are 1.9 steals and 2.2 blocks. And that's in 30.5 minutes as a 20 year old rookie returning from a major injury. He averaged 2.1 steals and 4.4 blocks in his one season at Kentucky. He's as good a bet as anyone to win several DPOY awards in the future. He can guard 4 positions, and maybe even 5 if he works on his lower body strength. Short of Anthony Davis, I don't think there's a better roving goalkeeper in the league right now. Guys like Ibaka, Jordan, and Drummond rack up blocks but they're not going to be everywhere at once disrupting the passing lanes as well. With an immovable object like Cousins in the post, Noel would have a field day on the defensive end.

There does happen to be a wealth of defensive role-player talent in the top 10 of the draft this year. I would certainly consider taking Myles Turner or Willie Cauley-Stein with that pick if they're available. But we need a defensive PF badly and Noel is ready to step in and contribute right away. That's the one position I'm prepared to overpay for if the fit is right.

Stauskas is replaceable

>Agreed. This is on the FO. they took 2 SG back to back bc they felt they missed on ben and didn't want to get embarrassed by mully in their training camp 3 point contest. I still have faith in nik. He has too much overall skill. They need to work with him and not sell him short in a trade. He's a shooter and gets how many shot opportunities in the game? we can't afford to bleed talent/assets.

Guys like Ibaka, Jordan, and Drummond rack up blocks but they're not going to be everywhere at once disrupting the passing lanes as well.

>those are some real bigs who i'd take over noel all day long. i value their rebounding and shotblocking abilities to limit the opponents to one shot but also their ability to play man defense. ask noel to check a zach randolph all game long and we'll see our defense collapse sending another defender to help him. was just watching the highlight video with a guard putting their shoulder into him dislodging him wasn't very encouraging. anyhow, don't we have a thin shot blocker on our team already (moreland)?

 

[hrdboild]

>those are some real bigs who i'd take over noel all day long. i value their rebounding and shotblocking abilities to limit the opponents to one shot but also their ability to play man defense. ask noel to check a zach randolph all game long and we'll see our defense collapse sending another defender to help him. was just watching the highlight video with a guard putting their shoulder into him dislodging him wasn't very encouraging. anyhow, don't we have a thin shot blocker on our team already (moreland)?

I think you're forgetting that DeMarcus Cousins has grown into one of the premier defensive centers in the league. He's also third in the league and rebounds and very close to the top 10 in blocks. What we don't have is a weakside shotblocker that can rotate and erase mistakes. Maybe Noel can't hold his position in the post against a bruiser like Randolph, but his defensive value is so much bigger than most dedicated shotblockers because he can guard every other position. And he's not as bad as you think one-on-one in the post. Watch how he defends Dwight Howard here:

Howard was 5-8 from the field and 1-4 from the line for 11 pts in that game. I used to wonder how 6'6" Ben Wallace could possibly guard 7' centers in the 90s, and then I watched him play. You don't have to block a shot if you steal the entry pass and he was the best I've ever seen at poking the ball loose before it could get into the post. Watch Noel play a few games and you can see why he gets so many steals -- he's very good at reading the ballhandler and anticipating where the ball is going to go.

He does the same thing to Pekovic here (@ 38s and @ 1:10):

Even when Pekovic catches the ball right next to the basket, Noel was able to outmaneuver him here and block the shot (@ 1:01). He also gets an easy basket just by beating everyone else down the floor (the first play in the video @ 8s). I expect him to hold his own against stronger opponents mostly by playing ball denial defense and using his long arms to bother their shot. Where the lack of strength is really going to hurt him is on the boards. Against bigger opponents you can see him just get pushed out of the way trying to box out.

Like I said, he has some definite weaknesses. But what he can do is so unique and so important to team defense, that I'm more than willing to overlook the 3 or 4 teams in the league which present a significant matchup problem. Watch what he does on this play (fast forward to 11s):

That right there is why I'm so high on his defensive potential. How many times have you seen a long-armed 6'11" shot blocking force poke the ball loose on the perimeter, dive on it, and create a fast break for his team? He's a playmaker on defense the same way that a PG can be a playmaker on offense -- he reads the floor, anticipates the other team's moves, and uses his quick hands and feet to put himself in the path of the ball.

 

[twslam07]

In regards to the Noel trade (Noel for Stauskas and 2015 1st), I don't think I would pull the trigger if WCS is available. I'm not even sure I would pull the trigger if Turner is available since he can serve as our shotblocker (4 years of Turner on a rookie deal versus 2 years of Noel).

If WCS & Turner are off the table, I would try to include Landry in the deal as well (Noel for Landry, Stauskas, 2015 1st). They're no where close to signing big time free agents, so Landry's deal essentially does not hurt them at all. However, it frees up our cap space and gives us $19 mil to work with around a core of:

PG - Collison/McCallum
SG - McLemore
SF - Gay
PF - Noel/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins

I'm sure we could produce a great bench with $19 mil to spend and head into the 2015-2016 season looking very strong.

 

[upinsmoke]

Meanwhile the Wizards are 1-6 since acquiring Sessions.

 

[KingMilz]

Meanwhile the Wizards are 1-6 since acquiring Sessions.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2015/2/26/8114409/the-andre-miller-curse-is-real-indisputable-proof

Well over the past two seasons, the Wizards are 57-36 when Andre Miler is on the team and 26-32 without him.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Noel next to Cousins would be a dream coming true.
But I don't think the Sixers will be that desperate to get rid of a promising shotblocker.

 

[randymoss1881]

Noel is getting traded under 1 condition and that is them getting back russell/mudiya after they grab Towns.

 

[twslam07]

Noel is getting traded under 1 condition and that is them getting back russell/mudiya after they grab Towns.

I think Stauskas and our first could be enough to pry Noel away. I think they are worried about the fit between Noel and Embiid.

If they select Towns with their pick, trade Noel for Stauskas and our 1st, select a guy like Stanley Johnson with the pick, and then maybe draft a PG with the Heat's pick (Jerian Grant), they would have a pretty young team with a lot of potential.

PG - Wroten/J. Grant/Canaan
SG - Stauskas/Covington
SF - S. Johnson/J. Grant/Sampson
PF - Towns/Sarci/Aldemir
C - Embiid/Sims

Or they could select Russell with the pick and work on building around a Russell/Noel/Embiid core which isn't bad at all. However, I think that trade would finally give them good potential at each position and allow them to start stabilizing and developing these players.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I only watched scouting vids of Embiid. So can someone please explain, why Noel and Embiid are not the dominant front court combo I expect them to be if healthy and reaching their potential?

Embiid seems to be a center with a good low post game but seems also be able to hit mid range jump shots. When an athletic, defensive minded Pf, who can finish at the basket and works on his jumper is the perfect fit for Cousins - why isn't he for Embiid?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'd rather have nurkic than noel. he's a bruiser that has an all around game. the guy can get opposing bigs in foul trouble thus opening up the driving lanes/3 pt shots. if you grab noel better be ready to pay him right away bc he's going to be expensive. rudy/cuz/noel thats going to be the majority of the capspace right there.

five blocks? he can block shots too?

3 blocks? look at what he's doing to cuz and other defensive bigs.

couple blocks

i think the FO values the spindly shot blocker type also so we'll probably see that type of player on this team in the near future.

 

[206Fan]

i'd rather have nurkic than noel. he's a bruiser that has an all around game. the guy can get opposing bigs in foul trouble thus opening up the driving lanes/3 pt shots. if you grab noel better be ready to pay him right away bc he's going to be expensive. rudy/cuz/noel thats going to be the majority of the capspace right there.

five blocks? he can block shots too?

3 blocks? look at what he's doing to cuz and other defensive bigs.

couple blocks

i think the FO values the spindly shot blocker type also so we'll probably see that type of player on this team in the near future.

Offensive floor spacing will be terrible lol. Nurkic is a very very good player though. I see him as DMC...*gulps* but with more potential. He does a ton of things very well. I think at this point in both of their careers, Nurkic is already the better defender. He gets called for chippy fouls mostly because he's a rookie though.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

how would it be poor offensive floor spacing? nurkic and boogie both have range on their shot. boogie and nurkic would get the opposing bigs in foul trouble and then they'd be pummeling the bench bigs. lots of double or triple teams would be coming at them opening up shots for all the 3 & d players we have.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Just how do you suppose the Kings acquire Nurkic? If I'm Denver, I'm only trading the Bosnian Boogie for the real deal.

 

[hrdboild]

I only watched scouting vids of Embiid. So can someone please explain, why Noel and Embiid are not the dominant front court combo I expect them to be if healthy and reaching their potential?

Embiid seems to be a center with a good low post game but seems also be able to hit mid range jump shots. When an athletic, defensive minded Pf, who can finish at the basket and works on his jumper is the perfect fit for Cousins - why isn't he for Embiid?

It's more about minutes than fit. If they draft Okafor or Towns this year and Embiid comes back and Dario Saric joins the team they now have 4 top 10 picks to play at 2 front court positions. Embiid and Okafor/Towns would be the guys with the highest ceiling. They could keep Nerlens as the backup C at least until they see how Embiid plays, but if they can turn him into a young SG and a top 10 pick that lets them fill two holes and take another stab at the draft, which is obviously what Sam Hinkie is most interested in. They've worked with Noel for 2 seasons now. He has 2 years left on his rookie deal. They should have a pretty good idea if he's star material or not. My question is: If they'd trade Michael Carter-Williams straight up for a protected pick, why wouldn't they trade Nerlens Noel for Nik Stauskas and an extra pick in this year's top 10? That seems like exactly the type of deal they're interested in.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Maybe. The story seems to be that after a year and a half of MCW, they liked the odds of getting a star from a pick more. I don't know if that same calculus holds for Noel--he seems to be coming along quite nicely.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Just how do you suppose the Kings acquire Nurkic? If I'm Denver, I'm only trading the Bosnian Boogie for the real deal.

i'm not saying we acquire him but i'd rather have a all around player than a rail thin 1 trick pony.