King Baller
All-Star
No King should be playing over 32 minutes a night.
To tank or not?
- Thread starter Gguod
- Start date
sactowndog
All-Star
It is what you call a soft tank. Play your starters 40 minutes in a game you are way down.
We probably don't have to worry about it because we're Sacramento and Fox can't seem to catch a fair break - but if Fox makes an all-NBA team (which he probably should) is that going to trigger contract kickers in his new deal? Luke could be giving us the ultimate long term FU.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Atlanta
Never underestimate this franchise’s ability to be trash.
We’re still rolling out Vlade’s “super team, just young” after all.
Hard to say. Maybe we could get in to bottom 4 but the most important thing is that whatever position we finish at, its accomplished with the contribution of our young players while they get a chance to develope. Also we wont be running our starters in to the ground and we wont be getting "unneccesary" wins by playing vets and benching young guys.
As long as the process is smart then the results can be whatever. Of cource if it looks like we are still finishing with lets say 7th worst record we can start resting our starters here and there to get into that bottom 5 because we dont want to be any lower than that
By the way this situation is the exact reason why I have been basically screaming for at least one tank year for the past multiple years. We tried to be a competitive team. Someone could've argued we werent nearly talented enough for that. If you approached one year with a full tank mode, you could've secured a high pick, developed your prospects, used your cap space for future assets and then its done especially if you have Fox and Hali already. Now it looks like we did everything we can to move from bottom 3 to 6-10th pick by playing extremely tight rotations and favouring vets.
When the season ends, what exactly it is that you gained from that season? What was the purpose of benching all Guy, Woodard, Ramsey, Jeffries getting low minutes and Bagley getting low minutes while Joseph and Bjelly played big minutes while starters played way too high minutes. What did we gain for stuff like that? Not any additional future assets, not developement for the young guys and not a draft position where its likely to get an impact player. If we do this every year we will stay exactly the same every year.
When the season ends, what exactly it is that you gained from that season? What was the purpose of benching all Guy, Woodard, Ramsey, Jeffries getting low minutes and Bagley getting low minutes while Joseph and Bjelly played big minutes while starters played way too high minutes. What did we gain for stuff like that? Not any additional future assets, not developement for the young guys and not a draft position where its likely to get an impact player. If we do this every year we will stay exactly the same every year.
As much as I wish the young guys were getting minutes it is hard to pin too many wins on CoJo or Bjeli so I just hope they are gone in 2 weeks. If all we can get is 2nd rounders, that's fine.
No one is giving anything for CoJo thats for sure. Bjeli helps this team to win if the alternative is a rookie. Bjeli stretches the floor at an elite level, makes the right pass and defensively understands rotations ect. A rookie most likely wont do those things since they need at least some time to learn them. Bjelica is 28th in RPM out of his position. Its better than an average rookie for sure.
CoJo or Guy or Ramsey, most likely CoJo still contributes the most to winning because of his position and out of those three since two of them dont have real Nba experience. Rookies rarely contribute to winning, especially those that are asked to run the offense.
Trade Bjeli for a 2nd, cut CoJo and play the guys that are even maybe part of the plan going forward.
whozit
Starter
I would be happy if the cost Bjelica is riddance of Joseph. Miami has a trade exemption that would absorb Bjelica and a player that won't play this year. The knucklehead whose mouth got the better of him. We can just cut him after the trade.
King Baller
All-Star
The last thing this Kings team needs is a sequel called Bubble II. This team is not good enough to be competitive in Playoff Basketball IMO. Some of the players are good enough, just not the coaching and full squad. The team needs a #1 player to go with Fox who is 1a or 1b at this point depending on how you view Hali.
Just watching Rondo dismantle the Kings in ATL was eye opening. CP3 and the other Alphas in the Association would eat this team alive in a seven game series. Fox, Hali, HB, Mr Holmes, etc. would battle but the Kings defense would be picked apart and Luke would be outcoached most nights IMO.
McNair needs to make sure Fox, HB and Hali are not burn out with too many minutes RIGHT FREAKING NOW. Walton is going to break those three down for no reason other that his desire to win at any cost. McNair should make trades to bring in draft assets and limit needless wins. Sure it takes two to tango but that trade deadline is approaching and it is time for the Front Office to earn its money.
Just watching Rondo dismantle the Kings in ATL was eye opening. CP3 and the other Alphas in the Association would eat this team alive in a seven game series. Fox, Hali, HB, Mr Holmes, etc. would battle but the Kings defense would be picked apart and Luke would be outcoached most nights IMO.
McNair needs to make sure Fox, HB and Hali are not burn out with too many minutes RIGHT FREAKING NOW. Walton is going to break those three down for no reason other that his desire to win at any cost. McNair should make trades to bring in draft assets and limit needless wins. Sure it takes two to tango but that trade deadline is approaching and it is time for the Front Office to earn its money.
Nobody is giving anything for CoJo alone but he can be used to offload salary if we don't mind taking back an extra year or two on a bad contract. That's how we'd get a pick out of it. CoJo + Bjeli = 20 million more or less. And I think Bjeli is at least a small positive as an 8th or 9th guy.
You just make sure that maybe the player being acquired is injured or something, maybe you wind up with another Shumpert situation where a year down the road the player contributes but can't get in the way now.
sactowndog
All-Star
Kings management (i.e Vivek) still in dreamland....
Amick’s NBA Trade ‘Big Board’: Why these 12(ish) players could move before the deadline
https://theathletic.com/2450395/202...fore-the-deadline/?source=user_shared_article
Let’s explain.
While this is most assuredly a “gap year,” as myself and Jason Jones wrote recently, the combination of Barnes’ play, his professionalism and his declining pay ($20.2 million next season; $18.3 million in 2022-23) is such that it will take a significant offer to pry him away. And the Kings’ ability to remain competitive, it seems, will be a factor in the decision.
Translation: A combination of late first-round draft picks and young players like the ones wearing green in Boston, it appears, likely wouldn’t be enough to get it done. The Kings are clearly still pondering the possibility of adding the kind of impact piece that they believe would put them in the playoff mix.
Does that mean Barnes won’t get moved? Never say never, but it seems the Kings are holding onto Barnes a little tighter than expected here.
Amick’s NBA Trade ‘Big Board’: Why these 12(ish) players could move before the deadline
https://theathletic.com/2450395/202...fore-the-deadline/?source=user_shared_article
Let’s explain.
While this is most assuredly a “gap year,” as myself and Jason Jones wrote recently, the combination of Barnes’ play, his professionalism and his declining pay ($20.2 million next season; $18.3 million in 2022-23) is such that it will take a significant offer to pry him away. And the Kings’ ability to remain competitive, it seems, will be a factor in the decision.
Translation: A combination of late first-round draft picks and young players like the ones wearing green in Boston, it appears, likely wouldn’t be enough to get it done. The Kings are clearly still pondering the possibility of adding the kind of impact piece that they believe would put them in the playoff mix.
Does that mean Barnes won’t get moved? Never say never, but it seems the Kings are holding onto Barnes a little tighter than expected here.
The team getting the best player wins the trade 90% of the time. I haven't seen a Celtics deal that is a no-brainer and even the best ones are 50-50 long run while immediately favoring the Celtics and yet rumored to be out of Ainge's considerations.
sactowndog
All-Star
how do you know who the best player is when you are getting a rookie, a draft pick and more ping pong balls?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
how do you know you’re gonna win the lottery when you trade your car for a handful of lotto tickets?
sactowndog
All-Star
the kings fell from 7 to 10 tonight. And you don’t know if they would move up but the difference in odds is hardly that of the lottery despite your snarky comments. Had the Kings lost both games they would have had a 20% better chance of a top 4 pick. Hardly lottery type odds.
sactowndog
All-Star
Well as the King “Queen” of polls it would be interesting to see if there are any teams we wouldn’t trade places with. Just me, but when you look at OKC, Houston , NO and Memphis, I would trade places with any of those teams. Not sure about the T-Pups or Cleveland.
Well if we trade with the Celtics it's for a couple scratchers. You kind of top out with the $1000 prize not the mega millions and still no guarantee.
sactowndog
All-Star
funny how the same crew that says drafting 10 is no big deal equates a Celtic first around 18 or so as a worthless lottery ticket. So which is it?
I wasn't saying it's worthless, I'm saying it's not ping pong balls so at best it's probably a chance at landing a player as good as Barnes - if they develop, 3-5 years from now. At which point Fox will be wrapping up his contract.
While Barnes isn't on the "ideal timeline", Fox is no longer a budding star - with a coach swap next season, the right lineups, etc. we could be playing .500 or better ball if we keep Barnes. If you want another tear down and rebuild, high lotto picks, etc. the biggest barrier is Fox (and probably Haliburton too, he's a winner already). I think Buddy is probably the easier player to replace because Hali has kind of shoved him into an out of position 3 or 6th man.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The issue comes if they expect that 10th pick to pay dividends like Haliburton did. I really don't think this next draft is as littered with superstars as some think. There are some good players, obvious issues being many of them don't play positions of need. That said, 10th will hurt because this is clearly a draft with some order this year and after about 7-8 prospects in you're getting into role player territory with some unknowns.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The timeline for this team is honestly not far off if it's a question of age and ability. That's why them easing a 27 year old Buddy in for so long was so frustrating. He's not freaking 19. And Haliburton isn't some huge upside player folks. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. He's pretty much there as a player with the exception of much needed weight and strength. There are no big gaps in his game right now. That's why he can be relied upon so early. And yes, it all goes back to play style and the one smacking those dry erase boards out of his assistants hands when he tries to work HIS system and rotations back into the picture and watches it fail. This is the 3rd time the light bulb should be going off over his head but I highly doubt 3rd time is a charm with Luke Walton. And even if it is, he's beyond proven his status as someone who should be coaching college basketball, not at the pro level.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
If it took him the last two games to realize that plays that feature De’Aaron Fox attacking in high pick and roll actions are pretty much guaranteed buckets, I’d actually be surprised. At this point it seems to be more of an issue of Luke refusing to see something rather than not seeing it at all.
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sactowndog
All-Star
the last two games were against teams without a solid rim protector or a guard who can defend quickness. Smart is a great defender but he can be blown by more easily than bullied. Which is not to say Fox isn’t playing well but he is a bad match-up. This team is still a big or two away and the answer isn’t Marvin.
sactowndog
All-Star
the timeline for this team as constructed is infinity,
first off Buddy is 28 not 27. I would reply to the rest of your claims but your sentence construction is so poor I can’t tell if you are referring to Buddy or Haliburton. I will saying Buddy is not a starting 2 guard on any play-off team. He is Lou Williams on an un-moveable contract. Fox and Haliburton will be in their prime in four years. Now is the time to tank.
1) the top players are 5 deep meaning top 4 odds matter not top 1-2
2) no fans in the stands
3) the players all at 18-19 fit well with a 23 year old Fox
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
Oh yeah, by the way the last times we tried to win games and weren't "tanking" we ended up with Dearron and Marvin, but we were lucky to end up with Dearron at 5 and then get the 2nd overall pick...
The closest thing I can remember to the difference in one pick really screwing us over was when Ron Ron won us some games in gold Jerseys down the stretch of the season in I believe 2008? We ended up with Spencer Hawes, the next pick up was Joakim Noah.
The closest thing I can remember to the difference in one pick really screwing us over was when Ron Ron won us some games in gold Jerseys down the stretch of the season in I believe 2008? We ended up with Spencer Hawes, the next pick up was Joakim Noah.
He's never been an actual good prospect. Just propped up by us fans by trying to throw anything against the wall to see what sticks. I wouldn't lose sleep over DQJ, James or Guy not turning into rotational players. Next up we'll see what Woodard and Ramsey have but the chances are overwhelmingly likely that they won't be rotational players either.
I'd like to see the Kings start going after big men further down in the draft. Seems like decent big men can be had further down in the draft while wings are less likely.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Well, you didn't read carefully enough. I'll give you a hint, when you see the players name the explanation follows. And I was referring to Buddy's game last year when fighting for time with Bogdan. This year he's gotten that starting spot hence the easing in is over.
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