Thornton's Value?

[twslam07]

Being that crazy guy who likes to spend his time drafting up hypothetical trade/offseason scenarios, I did some digging on Thornton's value. I went to a Jazz forum and proposed Thornton straight up for the Jazz's 21st pick (They have the 14th pick too). I was betting that the majority of Jazz fans would be open to the idea considering it is a late pick in a weak draft. However, the responses I received summed up to a unanimous "NO."

Here are a few quotes from some Jazz fans:

"Marcus Thornton refuses to play in defensive schemes and is the size of a PG while playing SG. It's really hard to win with those types of players."

"We can do much better than that. Plus there guys in the draft that can do what he can do better in that range namely Erick Green and Isaiah Canaan. Crabbe is also a good look at guard."

"Thornton is one of those guys for whom basketball is played on one end of the court. 12 of the teams with top 13 defensive rating made the NBA playoffs this year (Washington was the one that did not)."

"no thank you. his stats look good because all he does is shoot. he doesn't pass, play defense, or do anything else. his contract sucks and i'm sure the kings regret giving it to him. i'll pass on him."

"I would be interested if we were swopping #21 for #7 because we were taking on the contract... but thats the only scenario."

This last quote scares me in terms of Thornton's value. We would have to trade back 14 spots in order for the Jazz to take on his contract! Yikes! Is his value really this low around the league that we can't even trade him for the 21st pick in a weak draft? What do you realistically think we can get for him?

 

[sdballer]

Being that crazy guy who likes to spend his time drafting up hypothetical trade/offseason scenarios, I did some digging on Thornton's value. I went to a Jazz forum and proposed Thornton straight up for the Jazz's 21st pick (They have the 14th pick too). I was betting that the majority of Jazz fans would be open to the idea considering it is a late pick in a weak draft. However, the responses I received summed up to a unanimous "NO."Here are a few quotes from some Jazz fans:"Marcus Thornton refuses to play in defensive schemes and is the size of a PG while playing SG. It's really hard to win with those types of players.""We can do much better than that. Plus there guys in the draft that can do what he can do better in that range namely Erick Green and Isaiah Canaan. Crabbe is also a good look at guard.""Thornton is one of those guys for whom basketball is played on one end of the court. 12 of the teams with top 13 defensive rating made the NBA playoffs this year (Washington was the one that did not).""no thank you. his stats look good because all he does is shoot. he doesn't pass, play defense, or do anything else. his contract sucks and i'm sure the kings regret giving it to him. i'll pass on him.""I would be interested if we were swopping #21 for #7 because we were taking on the contract... but thats the only scenario."This last quote scares me in terms of Thornton's value. We would have to trade back 14 spots in order for the Jazz to take on his contract! Yikes! Is his value really this low around the league that we can't even trade him for the 21st pick in a weak draft? What do you realistically think we can get for him?

Other teams fans always undervalue the assets from other teams but their analysis isn't far off. I always said it was too big a contract at the time and with his diminished role in an unbalanced team, it has only become worse. The hope is that either we correct that in the way we set up the team or someone else see's the value in a really good scorer, even one with his flaws.

 

[Kingsfan23]

As of right now, I would say Thornton's contract has negative value around the league.. I see people often including him in trades, or to move up in the draft, I just don't think it will work out that way.. I think our best bet is to get him near to the calibure of player he was when he first arrived, because I don't think there is value for his contract

 

[Bricklayer]

As of right now, I would say Thornton's contract has negative value around the league.. I see people often including him in trades, or to move up in the draft, I just don't think it will work out that way.. I think our best bet is to get him near to the calibure of player he was when he first arrived, because I don't think there is value for his contract

I doubt people have forgotten, and what you may not be considering is the sad state of the SG position in the NBA right now.

 

[Goo]

It is depressing. Now people is talking about how important Iman Shumpert is NY 2nd best player and Lance Stephenson is very important to Indy ....etc and here we trying to give our players away.

NY will be laughing if they have a scorer like MT who can create for himself and Indy will be will still playing if they have Reke who will be the best scorer on the team.

It is amazing what Smart and Maloofs can do in two years, none of our young guys raise their value except IT.

 

[twslam07]

I doubt people have forgotten, and what you may not be considering is the sad state of the SG position in the NBA right now.

What is so sad about the SG position in the NBA right now? Are you just looking at PPG? There are plenty of good players who can play SG that might not average as many points per minute as Thornton, but again this game is not all about scoring. There are many SGs I would rather have than Thornton.

Wade
Bryant
Harden
Iguodala (Can play SG and SF)
George (Can play SG and SF)
J. Johnson (Can play SG and SF)
Gordon
Ginobli
Ellis
Matthews
Afflalo
Evans
K. Martin
K. Thompson
J.R. Smith
E. Turner (Can play SG and SF)
R. Allen
Mayo
Bradley
Beal
Waiters
T. Allen
Hayward (Can play SG and SF)
Redick
J. Crawford
Green
DeRozan
Stephenson

That is 28 players, and there might be only a couple I wouldn't take over Thornton (3 max). I'm not sure why you are referring to the SG position in a sad state.

 

[Bricklayer]

What is so sad about the SG position in the NBA right now? Are you just looking at PPG? There are plenty of good players who can play SG that might not average as many points per minute as Thornton, but again this game is not all about scoring. There are many SGs I would rather have than Thornton.

Wade
Bryant
Harden
Iguodala (Can play SG and SF)
George (Can play SG and SF)
J. Johnson (Can play SG and SF)
Gordon
Ginobli
Ellis
Matthews
Afflalo
Evans
K. Martin
K. Thompson
J.R. Smith
E. Turner (Can play SG and SF)
R. Allen
Mayo
Bradley
Beal
Waiters
T. Allen
Hayward (Can play SG and SF)
Redick
J. Crawford
Green
DeRozan
Stephenson

That is 28 players, and there might be only a couple I wouldn't take over Thornton (3 max). I'm not sure why you are referring to the SG position in a sad state.

Even with the inclusion of the swingmen, what you have described a wasteland of roleplayers and 15ppg scorers. Its the weakest position in the sport outside of center. Actually maybe even including center with Kobe possibly finished being Kobe and Wade appearing to age in dog years. As I mentioned in an Evans thread, there are at least a dozen teams entering this offseason looking for a legit starter at SG. And we have 2 of them.

 

[Glenn]

It used to be said that the easiest positions to fill were the wing positions yet in the present that doesn't seem to be so. We have one that can shoot without getting mauled in other areas of his game. We don't have a SF who can shoot in a way characteristic of the SFs of the past. Odd but we have to live in the present. I lie the idea of sticking with MT and seeing if he returns to the guy who got the big contract. I also like that with Tyreke and Cuz. Lucky thing is that with the change of regimes, we may very well see an improvement in a whole bunch of our players. Patience.

 

[cuad]

I think Marcus is in a bad situation here. I think he played so great after we traded for him because Tyreke Evans was out with injury for most of the games and coming off the bench for a few. I remember Marcus averaged over 3 assists per game and moved the Kings up more than 10 slots in the APG category. He had the killer instinct, was clutch, and did all the things that people say he doesn't do now, except maybe defense.

Unfortunately for us, Evans and MT didn't work as the starting back court the next year.

 

[sdballer]

I think Marcus is in a bad situation here. I think he played so great after we traded for him because Tyreke Evans was out with injury for most of the games and coming off the bench for a few. I remember Marcus averaged over 3 assists per game and moved the Kings up more than 10 slots in the APG category. He had the killer instinct, was clutch, and did all the things that people say he doesn't do now, except maybe defense.

Unfortunately for us, Evans and MT didn't work as the starting back court the next year.

The Kings won 43% of their games with an Evans/MT starting backcourt, which is probably one of the best pairings we've had the last 4 years. I think we went away from it too quickly and while I think there could be better options for pairing with Evans (and using MT as a 6th man), it worked ok. If we had a better sf, some rim protection, coaching and more defined, defense first role players, I think you could win with an Evans/MT backcourt.

 

[cuad]

You're probably right. The hole at SF probably hurt the Kings more than the Evans/MT backcourt. Tbh, I would like to see that back court play with an actual SF and someone who can shut down the paint.

 

[sdballer]

You're probably right. The hole at SF probably hurt the Kings more than the Evans/MT backcourt. Tbh, I would like to see that back court play with an actual SF and someone who can shut down the paint.

I agree. I hope the front office can identify some of the misused pieces/pairings from the past couple years and at least try to make them work with real complimentary pieces.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Even with the inclusion of the swingmen, what you have described a wasteland of roleplayers and 15ppg scorers. Its the weakest position in the sport outside of center. Actually maybe even including center with Kobe possibly finished being Kobe and Wade appearing to age in dog years. As I mentioned in an Evans thread, there are at least a dozen teams entering this offseason looking for a legit starter at SG. And we have 2 of them.

Marcus Thornton a legit starter at SG? Can you tell me which teams you expect to start Thornton? Yes he can score, but he is not that efficient and doesnt bring anything to a team except his scoring impact. And on top of that he has a pretty huge contract.

 

[jdbraver]

Marcus Thornton a legit starter at SG? Can you tell me which teams you expect to start Thornton? Yes he can score, but he is not that efficient and doesnt bring anything to a team except his scoring impact. And on top of that he has a pretty huge contract.

What's with all the hate. One moment we need shooters to spread the floor. The next we need to get rid of scores for defenders. There are very few players that do both and they are max contracts. Thornton's contract is fine he just needs a coach to play to his strengths and cover his weaknesses. Lets not target players for the design of the team.

BTW I'm not sure what chuck Hayes brings to the table other than pushing players twice his size out of the paint. Buy where is the chuck hate? J/k.

 

[KingsFanGER]

What's with all the hate. One moment we need shooters to spread the floor. The next we need to get rid of scores for defenders. There are very few players that do both and they are max contracts. Thornton's contract is fine he just needs a coach to play to his strengths and cover his weaknesses. Lets not target players for the design of the team.

BTW I'm not sure what chuck Hayes brings to the table other than pushing players twice his size out of the paint. Buy where is the chuck hate? J/k.

I dont hate Thornton! But i m not convinced that he would be a starting SG for the majority of the NBA Teams. He plays like J. Crawford, without the ball-handling ability.
I would prefer a SG/SF, who plays off the ball, plays solid D and can hit open jumpshots - guys like Jimmy Butler f.e.

 

[jalfa]

What's with all the hate. One moment we need shooters to spread the floor. The next we need to get rid of scores for defenders. There are very few players that do both and they are max contracts. Thornton's contract is fine he just needs a coach to play to his strengths and cover his weaknesses. Lets not target players for the design of the team.

BTW I'm not sure what chuck Hayes brings to the table other than pushing players twice his size out of the paint. Buy where is the chuck hate? J/k.

uhh, uhh, may I? here goes: Chuck, if what we've seen from him the last two years is what he is these days, is pretty much useless and an enormous waste of money! Petrie should rue the day he signed him (again) and if it actually was a decision between Hayes and Dalembert that's a seppuku worthy offense [/slighthyperbole]. sorry, had to get that off my chest.

as far as Thornton is concerned:he should be granted the same leeway as any other player on the Kings. not just for the cluster**** last year, but also the preceding year under Westphal. don't forget, the guy is not all that old and hasn't been particularly well developed. he's fairly undisciplined on defense and in his shot-selection, but these things may actually be curable. he could be looking very nice on a team like Chicago, for instance. but yeah, difficult to see him as a starter on many teams.

 

[ParniValjak]

One thing with Thornton on this team now is that, I don't think he will get much burn on this team with Malone. When Malone came to New Orleans with Monty Williams on e thing that happened was that Thornton was nailed to the bench despite coming off a very promising rookie season. He reason being lack of defense.

I don't think MT's defense has improved since he came here and this is the reason why I think MT will not fit in well. It is also the reason why I think he needs to be traded now before his trade value plummets even more.

 

[Gilles]

He's not a world beater, but he would be in contention in Milwuakee(Bucks would move Monta to PG). I'm sure Denver would take him next to Lawson - Thornton cannot be worse defender than Miller was in PO and he would bring spacing that Denver desperately needed plus they have very deep defensive-oriented front court that could cover for Thornton very well. There were 2-3 lottery teams that could use him but why would they do that - 2 or 3 more wins wouldn't bring PO but rather take away some of lottery balls. Now if you use "starter or 6th man" definition - and for fit purposes teams often use better player as 6th man - I think you could add a few more PO teams.

One thing with Thornton on this team now is that, I don't think he will get much burn on this team with Malone. When Malone came to New Orleans with Monty Williams on e thing that happened was that Thornton was nailed to the bench despite coming off a very promising rookie season. He reason being lack of defense.
I don't think MT's defense has improved since he came here and this is the reason why I think MT will not fit in well. It is also the reason why I think he needs to be traded now before his trade value plummets even more.

Unlike Smart Malone would never use IT-Thornton backcourt. There was similar problem in NO with Paul playing as PG. When you put Tyreke into the picture, you can see a pairing that might be passable for Malone. Your SF/PF pair better be good defensively in that case.
That's the thing that Tyreke's detractors don't seem to understand: there's a lot of talent among the guards around the League that is stifled for minutes because they can't run the team by themselves at PG and are a defensive liability as SG. Tyreke allows you to boost your talent level with his positional versatility. I hope Clippers retain Paul, and Bledsoe will become too expensive for them next year.

 

[Darth Divac]

The Kings won 43% of their games with an Evans/MT starting backcourt, which is probably one of the best pairings we've had the last 4 years. I think we went away from it too quickly and while I think there could be better options for pairing with Evans (and using MT as a 6th man), it worked ok. If we had a better sf, some rim protection, coaching and more defined, defense first role players, I think you could win with an Evans/MT backcourt.

It would definitely have a good chance. On offense, you would run Reke at PG (No words from you, Gary.) and MT off the ball. On defense, you would put MT on the PG, where he isn't undersized and could maybe play passable defense, and Reke could guard the SG, where he has proper size and athleticism to defend it. You'd need a 3 and D guy at SF, and hopefully a shotbolcker in the Ed Davis/Ekepe Udoh mold at the PF.

 

[LPKingsFan]

For what it's worth, there's a Bulls fan on realgm who seems hell bent on getting Thornton for Taj Gibson. I'd actually do that, as Gibson would be a solid PF to pair with Cousins...

Now, I think this topic is especially interesting, for as I just posted in another thread, I think Thornton's a goner. They may keep him around as insurance until they see what happens with Reke, but the past with Malone is actually not a good thing. Malone's year with the Hornets was 2010-11. That was the year after Thornton's breakout rookie season, when he was then benched and played a career low minutes, supposedly for not playing defense, before he broke out again with the trade here. Malone may be willing to try things again, but I imagine he'd want someone a better fit for his scheme. Plus, Thornton's value is wasted here if Reke is playing SG full time.

 

[pshn80]

One thing with Thornton on this team now is that, I don't think he will get much burn on this team with Malone. When Malone came to New Orleans with Monty Williams on e thing that happened was that Thornton was nailed to the bench despite coming off a very promising rookie season. He reason being lack of defense.

I don't think MT's defense has improved since he came here and this is the reason why I think MT will not fit in well. It is also the reason why I think he needs to be traded now before his trade value plummets even more.

Agree. I don't think MT is high in Malone's book. And I will never miss MT's me-first mind set. I hope Brick is right and that there is a reasonable market for him. If not, pay the price and move on.

 

[Hadlowe]

It would definitely have a good chance. On offense, you would run Reke at PG (No words from you, Gary.) and MT off the ball. On defense, you would put MT on the PG, where he isn't undersized and could maybe play passable defense, and Reke could guard the SG, where he has proper size and athleticism to defend it. You'd need a 3 and D guy at SF, and hopefully a shotbolcker in the Ed Davis/Ekepe Udoh mold at the PF.

Thornton doesn't have an issue staying in front of 2-guards when he is on ball. The problem is that his off-ball defense is awful. He tries to shoot passing lanes which ends up letting his man get backdoor cuts and open three pointers. He doesn't have a team defense mindset. He likes getting steals because he gets fast break baskets that way.

His offense is hot and cold (as with most gunners). His spot-up three point shooting is decent to good, which could be useful playing off of Reke and Cousins, but his lack of defensive IQ and tendency to throw up any looks he gets make him sixth-man only material in my book.

 

[Hallama]

Thorton does have value to certain teams. And those certain teams will also have contracts they need to dump.

1. Indiana needs shooting off the bench. They will be dangling Granger. If the Kings think Granger is healthy enough to trade for, a no-brainer trade would be Granger for Thorton and Salmons. They could use Salmons too, imo.

2. Minny is openly seeking shooting. Would anybody do a Thorton for D. Williams trade?

3. OKC will be thin at SG after not resigning KMart (most likely) and relying on Lamb.

4. Memphis really could have used a shooter off the bench in the playoffs. They have a couple young guys the Kings could be interested in like Daye or Davis.

 

[twslam07]

Thorton does have value to certain teams. And those certain teams will also have contracts they need to dump.

1. Indiana needs shooting off the bench. They will be dangling Granger. If the Kings think Granger is healthy enough to trade for, a no-brainer trade would be Granger for Thorton and Salmons. They could use Salmons too, imo.

2. Minny is openly seeking shooting. Would anybody do a Thorton for D. Williams trade?

3. OKC will be thin at SG after not resigning KMart (most likely) and relying on Lamb.

4. Memphis really could have used a shooter off the bench in the playoffs. They have a couple young guys the Kings could be interested in like Daye or Davis.

Actually, a lot of Pacer fans seem hell bent on keeping Granger. They see him as the missing piece to their championship team. They want to trot out a lineup of Hill, George, Granger, West, Hibbert. That team is huge by the way.

I even went as far as proposing...

Thornton
Thompson
7th pick

for

Granger
23rd pick

And I still got people declining the offer. I found that fascinating. It's most likely due to the fact that they would have to let either West or George walk if they wanted to stay under the luxury cap, but the team would be pretty stacked.

PG - Hill/Schroeder (7th pick)/Hansbrough
SG - Stephenson/Thornton/Johnson
SF - George/Green
PF - West/Thompson
C - Hibbert/Mahinmi/Plumlee

 

[Hallama]

Yes, lux tax will be a huge X factor with Indy. Not sure where their cap is at, but there's no way they can keep Granger after they give George and max/near-max contract. These are the sort of deals the Kings will need to pounce on.

 

[Gilles]

Knee injury is very scary for Granger because knee problems were the only reason Indiana got him at #18 in the first place. So he might be entering the tail end of his career - remember Brandon Roy? I would ask 3rd and 4th doctor's opinion before pulling a trigger on any deal.

 

[Goo]

Thorton does have value to certain teams. And those certain teams will also have contracts they need to dump.

1. Indiana needs shooting off the bench. They will be dangling Granger. If the Kings think Granger is healthy enough to trade for, a no-brainer trade would be Granger for Thorton and Salmons. They could use Salmons too, imo.

Indy make the most sense but I think they will ask for Reke + one of pp/jt to replace West.

Hill/Reke/George/PP or JT/Roy

IT/?/Granger/JT or PP/DMC

 

[upinsmoke]

Then there's the possibility MT likes his PT and makes a conscious decision to play a more rounded game and becomes that sixth man we all want him to be.

 

[Gary]

The Kings won 43% of their games with an Evans/MT starting backcourt, which is probably one of the best pairings we've had the last 4 years. I think we went away from it too quickly and while I think there could be better options for pairing with Evans (and using MT as a 6th man), it worked ok. If we had a better sf, some rim protection, coaching and more defined, defense first role players, I think you could win with an Evans/MT backcourt.

Very surprised they had won 43% of the games because I remember wanting to give away my season tickets (single game tickets not the entire season) because it looked so bad.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Indy make the most sense but I think they will ask for Reke + one of pp/jt to replace West.

Hill/Reke/George/PP or JT/Roy

IT/?/Granger/JT or PP/DMC

Why should the Pacers replace West? He is the toughest guy on their team and although aging, he doesnt need any athleticism for his game and is still able to play a few years on a decent level. I bet they resign him. But if they dont, they have Hansbrough, who can replace West right away.