Thomas Robinson & summer league:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I decided to wait for a while before giving my thoughts on his performance in summer league. Sort of let the depression of the first four games wear off a bit, and see if I could find some positives. Like many people, my kneejerk reactions are just that, in the moment outbursts of emotion, with little objective thought involved.

So let me start by saying that Robinson wasn't my first choice. Obviously Anthony Davis was. No chance there! My second choice, as I'm sure everyone knows was Michael Gilchrist, and when the Bobcats took him with the 2nd pick, I was very disappointed. However, I think they made the right choice. After those two, it became less clear. I liked Robinson, but I also liked Bradley Beal. However, the fact that Beal was a SG and that I couldn't decide that one was the clear winner on the talent side of the contest, I was happy with Robinson as our pick.

After the first couple of games, I started to question my ability to judge talent. He wasn't just bad, he was at times horrible. He looked like a bull in a china shop, going too fast and out of control. There were times when Uncia03 and I sat there next to one another, and we were basicly speechless. I think neither one of us wanted to confirm what the other was thinking.

Finally came game five, and a little redemption. I'm not going to say he played well in that game, because overall, he didn't. But, by comparison to the first four, it looked like an olympic performance. He slowed down, he made better decisions, and he did the one thing he should always be able to do, he rebounded! And to some degree, I think his ability to rebound the ball was sort of lost on us during the first four games.

He ended up leading all rookie players in Las Vegas in rebounding, and was second overall amongs't all players, averaging 9.8 per game for the five games. The important thing is, that in the last game we saw improvement, and, with that small improvement, he became revelant. He had an impact on the game. Something that was missing in the first four, where just about every impact he had, was negative. turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate, among other things.

So, if he could make such an impact with just minor improvements, how much impact could he make in the future with major improvments? The question is, just how good can Robinson be? After taking everything into consideration, I think he can be very good. He's big enough to play PF. He's 6'9" in shoes and has an above average wingspan. He has very good upper body strength. If he needs to get stronger, its in his core or lower body, but he's hardly inadequate.

For his size, 245 pounds, he may be one of the quickest players on the team. No matter how quick he looked on TV, he looks even quicker in person. He has guard like quickness. If you add that quickness, along with his surprising ability to handle the ball, to a consistent jumpshot, and an improved post game, you have someone very difficult to guard.

He showed very good passing ability, and the willingness to pass. He seemed to enjoy setting up his teammates. However, his decision making in that area was very poor, at times passing the ball to fans in the stands. But he did show skills in that area. In short, Robinson is a diamond in the rough. Perhaps a little rougher than we originally thought. But if he's brought along properly, and he develops the necessary skills, he could be a great compliment to Cousins.

He needs to develop a better post game, and more importantly, he needs to be able to hit that 15 to 17 footer consistently. We know he can rebound. Most of all, he needs to slow down. Having his kind of speed and quickness is terrific, but it has to be used properly, and at the right time. I can see him being able to take just about any PF in the league off the dribble if he can hit that jumpshot.

Defensively, its hard to make any kind of judgement. In college he was an aggressive defender, and certainly put out the effort. In summer league, little defense is played, unless your the Bobcats of course. In college he ended up guarding the other teams center at times. He'll get his share of blocked shots as a weakside help defender, and I think with the right instruction, he could be very good in that area. But for starters, I'll settle with just stopping the ball, and keeping his man in front of him. With his athletic ability and lateral quickness, that should be accheivable.

Right now, Robinson is like a box of raw nuclear material that needs to be refined. And if and when that happens, he could make quite an explosion in the NBA.
 
What do you think his offensive game translates to right now?

In the limited college games I've seen of him, he doesn't have a great back to the basket game but uses his quickness and athleticism to get by guys. I think his face up game is good and he is more comfortable with his jumper than I thought, though he didn't make very many in SL.

I think all in all he is a guy who will perform better with better players around him. His hustle and "motor" are great and I think will help the team, though it did look flat out ugly for the majority of SL. I see him as a decent back up high energy rebounder for the time being and expect him to supplant JT as the starter next year at the latest.

In a couple seasons I can see us running the offense through him for brief stretches with an improved J, face up, and his passing ability. It's hard to be super excited about him after SL but I still think he was the right pick for us at the that spot...unless Harrison Barnes keeps his SL hot hand
 
Just wait till he has a few bad games and he's called a bust. For those that were/are expecting him to be a starter by mid season you should re-evaluate your expectations.

I still think Lillard would have been the better pick.
 
Nice post, bajaden. As usual.

Now regarding Robinson, like you, he's not my first choice; but unlike you, there are at least four guys that I'd have picked ahead of him. I thought he was vastly overrated entering the draft and I'm certain that had the Kings not take him he'd have slide all the way to the bottom half of the lottery (no higher than #9) where he belongs. To me, the Kings reached for a guy who doesn't fill a need and isn't the BPA; and I surely hope that TRob proves me wrong.

With that said, it's hard to hate on TRob because he's solid, he'll probably end up a hard-working role player who gives you 12 pts and 9 rebs a game, and there's nothing bad about those number.

Regarding the summer league games, I was quite surprise that I was the only one not surprised (or so it seems) by Robinson's play. What we saw is essentially what he looks like away from the Kansas system - a system that allows him to get 6-10 pts a game via pick and roll, alley-hoop, running the floor and getting him the ball where he wants it in the post (left side, deep position). I've seen what Robinson does when he doesn't get those plays run for him - he floats to the perimeter and he attacks off the dribble (with mixed result).

What we don't get to see is how awesome he is in pick n roll. He picks, rolls, catches, and dunks with the best of them. He even perfected the slip screen technique. This part of his game translate well in the NBA. And after he dunked the ball, he beat his man down the court on defense. It's why coaches love him.

Defensively, this is exactly what I thought TRob would have looked if you take Jeff Whitey away. People who never saw him played have to keep in mind that Whitey guards the other team's best post player and TRob's job is to float inside the lane and gather the rebounds. He is not accustomed to just hunker down and defend his man. That simply wasn't his job at Kansas, his job is to wait for his teammates (especially Whitey) to contest shots and then he go and get the rebounds. Not that he will not develop into a good man defender but this is a question mark - can he? We'll just have to find out. In his last summer league game, where Yancy Gates guarded Sullinger and allowed TRob to just float around on defense played much closer to his comfort zone and it's no surprising that he responded with a big game.

Going forward, TRob has to learn better man defense - he has a tendency to reach, to overplay, to front, and at times it crosses my mind that maybe he doesn't like bodying up his man. Whatever. It has to change. He cannot get away with what he did at Kansas here.

He definitely needs to improve his jumpshot, his finishing with his left hand, and his post game. TRob scores by taking advantage of bad defense. The jury is still out that he can score against good defense.

All in all, I think he'll be a solid role player. Not what I had in mind with the #5 pick but it is what it is. I will not be mad at all if he proves me wrong and becomes an All-Star.
 
Nice post, bajaden. As usual.

Now regarding Robinson, like you, he's not my first choice; but unlike you, there are at least four guys that I'd have picked ahead of him. I thought he was vastly overrated entering the draft and I'm certain that had the Kings not take him he'd have slide all the way to the bottom half of the lottery (no higher than #9) where he belongs. To me, the Kings reached for a guy who doesn't fill a need and isn't the BPA; and I surely hope that TRob proves me wrong.

With that said, it's hard to hate on TRob because he's solid, he'll probably end up a hard-working role player who gives you 12 pts and 9 rebs a game, and there's nothing bad about those number.

Regarding the summer league games, I was quite surprise that I was the only one not surprised (or so it seems) by Robinson's play. What we saw is essentially what he looks like away from the Kansas system - a system that allows him to get 6-10 pts a game via pick and roll, alley-hoop, running the floor and getting him the ball where he wants it in the post (left side, deep position). I've seen what Robinson does when he doesn't get those plays run for him - he floats to the perimeter and he attacks off the dribble (with mixed result).

What we don't get to see is how awesome he is in pick n roll. He picks, rolls, catches, and dunks with the best of them. He even perfected the slip screen technique. This part of his game translate well in the NBA. And after he dunked the ball, he beat his man down the court on defense. It's why coaches love him.

Defensively, this is exactly what I thought TRob would have looked if you take Jeff Whitey away. People who never saw him played have to keep in mind that Whitey guards the other team's best post player and TRob's job is to float inside the lane and gather the rebounds. He is not accustomed to just hunker down and defend his man. That simply wasn't his job at Kansas, his job is to wait for his teammates (especially Whitey) to contest shots and then he go and get the rebounds. Not that he will not develop into a good man defender but this is a question mark - can he? We'll just have to find out. In his last summer league game, where Yancy Gates guarded Sullinger and allowed TRob to just float around on defense played much closer to his comfort zone and it's no surprising that he responded with a big game.

Going forward, TRob has to learn better man defense - he has a tendency to reach, to overplay, to front, and at times it crosses my mind that maybe he doesn't like bodying up his man. Whatever. It has to change. He cannot get away with what he did at Kansas here.

He definitely needs to improve his jumpshot, his finishing with his left hand, and his post game. TRob scores by taking advantage of bad defense. The jury is still out that he can score against good defense.

All in all, I think he'll be a solid role player. Not what I had in mind with the #5 pick but it is what it is. I will not be mad at all if he proves me wrong and becomes an All-Star.

I'll say this. Of all the players I watched in summer league, Lillard was one of the most impressive there. However, unfortunately I only got to see him play a few times in college, and not against the top competition. So for me to sit here after the fact and tell anyone that I would have taken Lillard over Robinson would be a lie. As for who I might have taken over Robinson. I already mentioned Beal, who I think can be a star in the league. I liked Harrison Barnes more than most people, and we had a need at that position. And to be honest, I wouldn't have complained if we had taken him. But that said, I don't think Robinson was a reach, any more than Derrick Favors was a reach. In the case of both, they need skill refinement. To my mind it was a matter of priority. We had a need at SF, and we had a need at PF, or possibly backup center. A player I liked, and after watching him play in summer league, like even more is Meyers Leonard. But I'm sure he would have been considered a reach by most people.

Robinson has some unique qualities, with his athletic ability. So I think he can be more than a role player, with the biggest difference being whats between his ears. He's a determined worker, and he's smart. He needs a better post game and as you said, a better left hand. He handles the ball as well as most SF's, and he's quicker than most PF's and some SF's. He has good passing skills. If you can bring all those qualities together, you can have a very solid basketball player. Of course that doesn't mean it will happen, and as Section 101 said, it won't take long for the boo birds to come out if he struggles badly.

I think it would really be in his best interest to come off the bench all season. JT is a solid starter next to Cousins, and there's no reason to throw Robinson to the wolves just yet. Let him get his feet wet and learn what he can and can't do. And, I certainly hope they find a way to run some pick and rolls for him. As a side note, the two players that were amazing in the pick and roll in summer league were Leonard and Lillard. I don't think I've ever seen a big man roll to the basket as quickly as Leonard, after setting a brick wall pick. Portland got a good future center in him. And when you see him up close at floor level, he's one big dude. Genuine seven footer. Lillard is the real deal. He impressed me with his court vision and passing. But the dude can really score the ball, and from anywhere.

Edit: I forgot to mention. In his last game against Sullinger, I paid particular attention to his defense, since he had played agains Sullinger before. He went one on one with Sullinger many times throughout the game. Sullinger only score one basket on him. He got to the line one time, on a somewhat questionable call. And other than that, Robinson shut him down. What impressed me the most, was that Robinson was able to hold positon against Sullinger in the block.. On the whole, Sullinger had a horrible game. Robinson, Jackson, and Gates all gave him fits on defense. Wouldn't it be nice if we could draft Withey in the second round next year. Hmmm! Wait, I don't think we have a second round pick next year. I'll have to look that one up..
 
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What do you think his offensive game translates to right now?

In the limited college games I've seen of him, he doesn't have a great back to the basket game but uses his quickness and athleticism to get by guys. I think his face up game is good and he is more comfortable with his jumper than I thought, though he didn't make very many in SL.

I think all in all he is a guy who will perform better with better players around him. His hustle and "motor" are great and I think will help the team, though it did look flat out ugly for the majority of SL. I see him as a decent back up high energy rebounder for the time being and expect him to supplant JT as the starter next year at the latest.

In a couple seasons I can see us running the offense through him for brief stretches with an improved J, face up, and his passing ability. It's hard to be super excited about him after SL but I still think he was the right pick for us at the that spot...unless Harrison Barnes keeps his SL hot hand

I think between what Beb0p, myself, and you said, we've covered what his abilities are. He's rough around the edges offensively, with his main attribute being his ability to rebound the ball. I agree that he probably shouldn't start this year. Just let him learn the NBA this season coming off the bench. He'll still get his minutes, but with less pressure against the other teams second unit. Similar to how they handled Derrick Favors at Utah. At the very least this season he should be able to make a similar impact as Kenneth Faried with his hustle. And he's by far a better offensive player than Faried. Who I love by the way...
 
Thankfully he had this summer league to gauge his readiness. He's not ready, obviously. Imagine what a disaster he would've been with a lockout shortened training camp/no summer league. At least now the coaching staff can start working with him.
 
I had no idea at all what Robinson was doing out there the first 3 games. Couldn't even tell you what position he was playing. I saw a little improvement in Game 4. Just a little, but there were a few post moves and he was at least raising his arms on defense. And Game 5 gives a little hope. Despite the overall strong rebound numbers, Game 5 was the first time he was impressive on the glass, and he finally got into a little offensive rhythm after half.

What he can do well right now would seem to be face up and drive to the hoop, and he's a better passer than expected. He's mobile defensively on the perimeter. He can handle well for a PF, but maybe too well as he gets himself in trouble. His athleticism surprisngly does not express vertically -- he plays most of the game on the ground and "short" if you will. But you see it with great open court speed. Be one of the fastest PFs in that regard. I'm not convinced he is going to be a huge rebounder at this level, but I would be surprised if he's not at least decent and certianly could be more -- just didn't see enough to get a read there.

On the other hand he has problems with length, post moves are desperately needed, 1 out of every 3 jumpers looks nice, 1 out of every three is an airball. He needs to get his hands up on defense, and quit gambling in the post. And no, I cannot see him ever being a shotblocker. It appears as far from his mentality as can be. He's also a ripped 245 and looked smallish out there. Given his build I am not sure how much room for extra mass there really is. The drawing people out to the perimeter and then driving past them thing is a keeper, but its nowhere near enough alone, and I'm worried sooner rather than later everybody is just going to take 2 giant steps back and turn him into a turnover/charging machine while also being back in the lane interfering with Boogie. He's got a lot on his plate moving and setting up a home in the next two months, but hope he can find time to take a few hundred jumpers every day while he's at it.

I'm less alarmed after he showed some improvement the last couple of games, but certianly anticipate Jason starting the season at PF unless we do the throw the rookie into the fire thing, or smart uses the "I need a center off the bench" excuse again.
 
I had no idea at all what Robinson was doing out there the first 3 games. Couldn't even tell you what position he was playing. I saw a little improvement in Game 4. Just a little, but there were a few post moves and he was at least raising his arms on defense. And Game 5 gives a little hope. Despite the overall strong rebound numbers, Game 5 was the first time he was impressive on the glass, and he finally got into a little offensive rhythm after half.

What he can do well right now would seem to be face up and drive to the hoop, and he's a better passer than expected. He's mobile defensively on the perimeter. He can handle well for a PF, but maybe too well as he gets himself in trouble. His athleticism surprisngly does not express vertically -- he plays most of the game on the ground and "short" if you will. But you see it with great open court speed. Be one of the fastest PFs in that regard. I'm not convinced he is going to be a huge rebounder at this level, but I would be surprised if he's not at least decent and certianly could be more -- just didn't see enough to get a read there.

On the other hand he has problems with length, post moves are desperately needed, 1 out of every 3 jumpers looks nice, 1 out of every three is an airball. He needs to get his hands up on defense, and quit gambling in the post. And no, I cannot see him ever being a shotblocker. It appears as far from his mentality as can be. He's also a ripped 245 and looked smallish out there. Given his build I am not sure how much room for extra mass there really is. The drawing people out to the perimeter and then driving past them thing is a keeper, but its nowhere near enough alone, and I'm worried sooner rather than later everybody is just going to take 2 giant steps back and turn him into a turnover/charging machine while also being back in the lane interfering with Boogie. He's got a lot on his plate moving and setting up a home in the next two months, but hope he can find time to take a few hundred jumpers every day while he's at it.

I'm less alarmed after he showed some improvement the last couple of games, but certianly anticipate Jason starting the season at PF unless we do the throw the rookie into the fire thing, or smart uses the "I need a center off the bench" excuse again.

To be honest, I didn't think he played very well in the fourth game either. No need to go over what he needs to work on. I disagree on his vertical. In game five, he was above the rim several times grabbing rebounds. He also blocked two shots in that game. The biggest difference wasn't an improvement in his skill level, it was just playing more under control.. Which is a good thing, because if he can improve his skill level, then we have something to look forward to. He did grab 16 rebounds in that final game, and had 12 in another. So I'm not really worried right now about his rebounding. As they say, the one thing that almost always translates to the NBA is rebounding, and he was one of the best rebounders in college last year.

His ability to get to the basket off the dribble, sometimes with a great spin move was impressive. What wasn't impressive, was his inability to finish once there. Thats something he really needs to work on, because his jumper, and his taking his man off the dribble could be his bread and butter in the future.
 
I think it's important for him to play with guards that know what they are doing out there to assist him in offensive production and make him feel good about himself. When Robinson plays with guards that can get him the ball in pick and roll/pop/slip situations, as well as on the break, he will do well. I think IT could help him immediately in that regard. I'm hoping Brooks can do the same. If, on the other hand, he comes off the bench and is playing with guards that don't know how or don't care to involve him in the offense, he will not do very well his rookie year with point production, though he should still get rebounds. He's just not at the stage of development where he will create plays for himself. For him to create for himself will probably take a couple of years of hard work. If he concentrates his rookie year on rebounding and defense, he'll do just fine. As time goes on the rest of the game should develop. He's got tremendous speed and quickness for his size and a huge V-8 motor. With the right coaching, eventually he should be very good on defense, especially in double teaming, weak side defense, and traps. To me, he's going to be a more talented Jason Thompson. If anybody can outwork Thompson, it's going to be Robinson. It's going to be a war when they go at each other in practice.
 
To be honest, I didn't think he played very well in the fourth game either. No need to go over what he needs to work on. I disagree on his vertical. In game five, he was above the rim several times grabbing rebounds. He also blocked two shots in that game. The biggest difference wasn't an improvement in his skill level, it was just playing more under control.. Which is a good thing, because if he can improve his skill level, then we have something to look forward to. He did grab 16 rebounds in that final game, and had 12 in another. So I'm not really worried right now about his rebounding. As they say, the one thing that almost always translates to the NBA is rebounding, and he was one of the best rebounders in college last year.

His ability to get to the basket off the dribble, sometimes with a great spin move was impressive. What wasn't impressive, was his inability to finish once there. Thats something he really needs to work on, because his jumper, and his taking his man off the dribble could be his bread and butter in the future.

Yup, his finishing really needs work. Good to hear that he's aware of it though (summer league interview he said he's gonna work on finishing). One concern of mine is that we can't have every player's unique skill being driving to the basket. You've already got Tyreke who's good at that, then you've got DMC - who's unique ability is his quickness and ballhandling which allows him to drive to the basket from the free throw line. Now you throw Robinson into the mix. Eventually you are going to need guys who's bread and butter offense is hitting mid-range spot up jumpshots in order to get good spacing when everyone's best ability is driving the ball.
 
Yup, his finishing really needs work. Good to hear that he's aware of it though (summer league interview he said he's gonna work on finishing). One concern of mine is that we can't have every player's unique skill being driving to the basket. You've already got Tyreke who's good at that, then you've got DMC - who's unique ability is his quickness and ballhandling which allows him to drive to the basket from the free throw line. Now you throw Robinson into the mix. Eventually you are going to need guys who's bread and butter offense is hitting mid-range spot up jumpshots in order to get good spacing when everyone's best ability is driving the ball.

Robinson can hit an outside jump shot to 18 feet. And I would expect he'll get better at that over time. So he should open up the floor for others. He has the beginnings of a very versatile player. I don't see Robinson in any way during his rookie year monopolizing the ball while driving to the basket. I am hopefull, however, that he gets the ball at midcourt on break situations so that he can utilize that speed and ballhandling in driving for layups. Eventually, in the half court he should be able to see the floor and drive to the basket very well, but I suspect it's going to take him a while to have the vision to do that with some competence.

By the way, I wouldn't mind having 5 players on the court with good driving skills, as long as they also had the judgement on when and how to drive. Cousins and Tyreke have a ways to go in that regard.
 
I think Thomas Robinson is going to the next Brian Grant, remember him guys? Hard nosed, strong, power forward who was an excellent rebounder and a fierce competitor. I still remember the year he and Michael "the Animal" Smith came in, and changed to culture of the team. I'm hoping Robinson can have that same effect.
 
I think Thomas Robinson is going to the next Brian Grant, remember him guys? Hard nosed, strong, power forward who was an excellent rebounder and a fierce competitor. I still remember the year he and Michael "the Animal" Smith came in, and changed to culture of the team. I'm hoping Robinson can have that same effect.

Hey, don't forget Larry Funderburke, who outlasted them all as a King. He was our second, 2nd round pick that year.
 
I don't put much stock in summer league. Yes yes I know I sound like Grant Napear.. But I saw Robinson trying to do everything out there. It was like there wasn't a system, it was just 5 individuals out there and 2 of those 5 were showcasing their individual skills i.e. Jimmer/Thomas Robinson.

Once Robinson has a system, and a full camp, and knows his role I think he will be fine. He's not going to conquer the world in his rookie year. I would be surprised if he averages 8ppg 6rpg. That's probably the max he could do in his rookie year, I would probably put him at about 6ppg 5rpg in 20 mins per game. All I look for is that he shows "flashes" and that he can play well enough in the team game that we notice his contributions even if they don't come up on the stat sheets.
 
I don't put much stock in summer league. Yes yes I know I sound like Grant Napear.. But I saw Robinson trying to do everything out there. It was like there wasn't a system, it was just 5 individuals out there and 2 of those 5 were showcasing their individual skills i.e. Jimmer/Thomas Robinson.

Once Robinson has a system, and a full camp, and knows his role I think he will be fine. He's not going to conquer the world in his rookie year. I would be surprised if he averages 8ppg 6rpg. That's probably the max he could do in his rookie year, I would probably put him at about 6ppg 5rpg in 20 mins per game. All I look for is that he shows "flashes" and that he can play well enough in the team game that we notice his contributions even if they don't come up on the stat sheets.

I think summer league is fine, as long as you accept it for what it is, and thats more of an introduction to the NBA style of play for the rookies. Of course its sloppy. Your playing with only a few of your future teammates, and the rest are unsigned rookies, potential D league players or european players hoping for an NBA roster spot. The minute you get players that are hoping to impress, your going to get some selfish basketball. When I watch on TV, I find it somewhat boring. But when I'm there, I find it very interesting. Mainly, because I'm looking for individual play, and your going to get a decent measure of what a player can and can't do in that situation.

However, I agree that I think Robinson will be fine. What numbers he puts up, will heavily depend on the minutes he gets. Don't be surpised if you see him at the SF position for a few minutes here and there. Its really all up to him. If he proves he can play, then he'll play.
 
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