Things to think about..

cdep73 · May 6, 2006

Ok here's what we need:

Resign Bonzi, nuff said. He is a true warrior. Grabs rebounds like crazy. Too strong for most guards, and he's got a little shooting touch.

Resign Rick Adelman, nuff said as well.

Get a solid backup PG. Draft or trade.

Get a rebounding/shot blocking big man. Draft or trade.

A training camp will be perfect for us.

Get rid of Kenny Thomas. Guy was a complete non-factor in the playoffs and is a potential cancer to this team considering his selfishness. At least Brad Miller hit some shots.

And speaking of Brad Miller, I for one and I speak for many am tired of yall's frequent bashing of Brad. I mean yes, he had a really bad post-season, but as soon as he has a bad game, up goes another "Trade Brad Miller" thread and it makes me sick. Have yall forgot that this man is a 2-time All Star, one of his selections for us? I've seen Brad have much better seasons than this past one, and he hasn't always been this soft. I think the leg injury in practice last year could have got to him this year. Or it could be that fact that he is the only real center we have. We not gonna play Potatohead! He's probably gone this off-season. All I'm saying is you guys better appreciate Brad , because he is a center that most teams want and envy us for, and I don't wanna see him on another team, that's scary. Plus, The Kings offense is completely different without him. Point being, show the man some damn respect at least.

sauce-26 · May 6, 2006

I keep hearing ya'll talk about bobby j. Is he a free agent this year. If he is, sign him.

sdballer · May 6, 2006

cdep73 said:

Agree with resigning Bonzi but only if we don't overpay for him.

Adelman. Not sure how to reply to "nuff said" but I still think its time for a coaching change.

Backup PG (especially a defensive specialist) is a must, though its strange that this was the exact reason they traded for Hart. If he is back, it is a bit redundant.

Rebounding/shot blocking big man also a must. Not sure where its going to come from as drafting a big man that late is usually a reach (in terms of immediate contribution).

Training camp is nice but the team needs to stop using the injury bug as an excuse. It seems like I've heard the "if only we had more time to play together" line. Not that injuries make things difficult, but you need to learn to rise above them.

Thomas probably needs to go but I'm not sure what you get for him.

Miller's pros and cons have been discussed to death but I still get frustrated when I see these kinds of arguments. I get the fan support and the fact that Brad has been a unique and steady contributor over the years. That doesn't make up for his consistently poor playoff performances (career regular season stats are higher than playoff stats in all cats but TO and PF's), absolute lack of interior d and rebounding, and apparent lack of effort. I for one would not be frightened of Brad on another team because he is a very limited player that I think is becoming easier to defend. Say what you will about his skills, the fact is he is slow, unathletic and not particularly strong. These are the reasons the guy went undrafted but he made a place for himself by playing smart and more than anything else, playing hard.

No disrespect intended to Brad, but I just don't see the team I love reaching the next level without making a change in one of their major impact areas (starters or coaching).

Kings Fan · May 6, 2006

Besides all the obvious things that people have reiterated (resign Bonzi, draft PG, get shotblocking presence, improve interior defense), how about getting Doug Christie as an assistant coach to:

1) help Kevin and Cisco mature...

2) emphasize and teach defense...

While Doug was never the star player on previous Kings team that included Webber, Divac, Peja...he brought heart, passion, and defense...all that this new era of Kings basketball is now known for...

Just a food for thought.

chelle · May 7, 2006

Hey! I just had a GREAT thought . . . .

NO MORE GOLD NEXT SEASON!!!!!!! That alone makes me happily look forward!! - At least I hope there will be no more gold!

My list of MOST important offseason work:
1. Resign Adelman. (Even Ron said he'd give him his salary

)

2. Resign Bonzi. As of now, he is our only rebounder.

3. Back up point guard. (My feeling is that Mike's subpar playoof performance was mostly due to how much he had to play in the reg season and he simply gave out.)

4. Brad - Find out if he still wants to play. If we keep hime HIRE somebody to spend the summer with him and get him into better rebounding/ shot blocking shape. If not - trade for another center. I REALLY like Brad, but we need more in the middle.

5. Decide on SAR or Thomas. I do not think that they can coexist for an entire season. My pick is SAR but it has nothing to do with basketball. I hate Thomas's attitude.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

1. resign ron artest. how can you not resign him!!!! turned our season around
2. TRADE BRAD MILLER IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEDIATELY
3. TRADE KENNY THOMAS
4. resign bonzi.
5. keep SAR
6. get another scorer (besides martin) and defender to come off the bench

the kings need a new front line. we are not going far next year with miller and thomas starting at the 5 and 4 positions. i dont know who we could get or how much it costs, i just hope next years starting lineup and bench will look like this

bibby
bonzi
artest
rahim
center???????????

(any center in the league that can grab alot more rebounds than brad miller and block more shots than brad miller). i thought the kings really needed a center that can shoot 3-pointers and make 15 footers. we dont! as long as we have someone that WILL attack the basket and go after every rebound with a purpose.

power forward (Start Shareef Abdur Rahim. he's always been the best choice over kenny thomas. he's big, and he can post up) kenny thomas does have his nights where he can grab 13+ rebounds on any given day. however, SAR is more consistant. once he gets into a flow he'll be very productive for us. keep him at the starting PF position.

sign 2 more players to throw on the bench. one should be another offensive option and one should be another defensive option

bench: we need another offensive option off the bench with kevin martin

1.kevin martin (he's good, he'll be in our staring lineup with artest within the next year)
2.scoring point guard #1
3.defensive pf/center option #2 (to back up our athletic center)
4.cisco
5.corliss

nbrans · May 7, 2006

I think the first and most important thing to think about is what kind of style the Kings want to play. Right now it seems like the team is still stuck between two eras. You have the Princeton finnesse players (Brad, Bibby, Martin) and you have the hard-nosed power players (Bonzi, Artest). It's a mishmash, and it didn't work so well in the playoffs. The power players aren't multi-skilled on offense and the finesse players can't play any defense. What kind of style will the Kings of the future adopt?

One big problem is that the current mishmash doesn't utilize Brad's and Bibby's skills. Brad is at his best when he is in the high post passing to cutters and shooting when he's open. When there are no cutters he is basically just a jump shooter, and it's very easy to take away his game by just crowding him. Bibby and Brad also don't have room to run the pick and roll, because you have Bonzi and Artest on the block, which is where they are most effective.

Although the power play had some success in the postseason, I wouldn't be so quick to just throw the Princeton offense in the garbage along with the players whose strengths it highlights. One of the main benefits of the offense is that it creates easy opportunities on offense with passing and movement. Every good team has to have a way to get easy points, whether it's on the fast break (Phoenix), penetration (San Antonio) or ball movement (Detroit). Right now the Kings struggle to get a basket every time down the floor. Nothing comes easily. If the Kings are going to ditch the Princeton there had better be some way of getting good looks.

However, this team has an opportunity to transform itself into a tougher, defensive minded team. I think it's one that Kings fans would welcome, and I'm personally ready for it. They could be a bruising defensive unit that no one would want to face. If this is the route the team takes, though, I would advocate re-signing Bonzi, shipping out Bibby and Miller and going all the way towards a tougher, faster, more athletic group.

I don't think Bibby and Miller have a place in the new group. They're terrible on defense, and the power offense doesn't utilize their strengths. It's not that they're bad players, it's just that the current way of playing doesn't suit them. I'd replace Bibby with a quicker, defensive minded point guard who can lock down the other team's point of attack and also get out and run on the fast break to create some easy opportunities. I'd replace Miller with an athletic center who can be depended upon to grab rebounds and block shots. But the downside is that this tough team is going to struggle to get good looks until it has an alpha player on offense who can be depended upon to score 20 or more points every night.

This transition is going to take time, and next year is going to be a frustrating, tantalizing year. I think the goal should be contending in 2007-2008, once the transition is complete.

P.S. No matter what type of play the Kings decide upon, I still think Adelman should be the coach. His greatest attribute is that he utilizes his players' strengths and he gives them the freedom to play their best. Meanwhile Artest minimizes his greatest weakness, which is his hands-off attitude about motivation. Artest and Adelman are the perfect combination of player and coach, and no matter what the style of play Adelman should be the coach.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

if im petrie i do not get rid of mike bibby. mike bibby (like artest and bonzi) has attacked the paint. bibby was the 3rd leading scorer at an impressive 16.4ppg. and he was the leading scorer with 19 in game 6. he dished out the assists and did everything he could to get buckets. his defense isnt that good at all, but neither was derick risher's. its about help defense. i'll tell you one thing, bibby is in the top 6 point guards in the league. players like francis and marbury are too selfish. so unless we can trade bibby for one of the point guards in the list below we need to keep him.

1.kidd
2.nash
3.baron davis (can this guy stay healthy)
4. billups
5. parker
6. bibby

nbrans, we have players that are finess and players that are powerhouses in the paint. you say its a conflict, but what i saw were 5 players that attacked the paint and put the spurs on their heels. bonzi, artest, rahim, martin and bibby. those were the only 5 players that shot the ball and made things happen. everyone else was non-existant. i couldnt even imagine. what's dead is the princeton offense. that was used and perfected by webber and vlade. we wont be able to run the princeton unless we signed a player like KG or jermaine oneal. a power forward that can pass and attack the rim like and ALL-STAR. i say keep the style we have now, the tough and physical play. the night of game 6 i heard broadcasters on ESPN radio say that the physical and tough kings are beating up the spurs. even though the spurs were up 3-2 they felt like this was a very close series. when have you ever heard physical and tough in the same sentence with the kings? so i say keep the style of play. start SAR and sign a center that will DUNK the ball in traffic (not lay it up) and block tons of shots. we'll have our championship.

nbrans · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

if im petrie i do not get rid of mike bibby. mike bibby (like artest and bonzi) has attacked the paint. bibby was the 3rd leading scorer at an impressive 16.4ppg. and he was the leading scorer with 19 in game 6. he dished out the assists and did everything he could to get buckets. his defense isnt that good at all, but neither was derick risher's. its about help defense. i'll tell you one thing, bibby is in the top 6 point guards in the league. players like francis and marbury are too selfish. so unless we can trade bibby for one of the point guards in the list below we need to keep him.

1.kidd
2.nash
3.baron davis (can this guy stay healthy)
4. billups
5. parker
6. bibby

nbrans, we have players that are finess and players that are powerhouses in the paint. you say its a conflict, but what i saw were 5 players that attacked the paint and put the spurs on their heels. bonzi, artest, rahim, martin and bibby. those were the only 5 players that shot the ball and made things happen. everyone else was non-existant. i couldnt even imagine. what's dead is the princeton offense. that was used and perfected by webber and vlade. we wont be able to run the princeton unless we signed a player like KG or jermaine oneal. a power forward that can pass and attack the rim like and ALL-STAR. i say keep the style we have now, the tough and physical play. the night of game 6 i heard broadcasters on ESPN radio say that the physical and tough kings are beating up the spurs. even though the spurs were up 3-2 they felt like this was a very close series. when have you ever heard physical and tough in the same sentence with the kings? so i say keep the style of play. start SAR and sign a center that will DUNK the ball in traffic (not lay it up) and block tons of shots. we'll have our championship.

Bibby was a disaster in the playoffs for the second straight year and three out of four. 16.4 points on 35% shooting is not impressive. Meanwhile, Parker annhilated him on the other end. If Bibby had had just one or two good games the Kings might have taken the Spurs to Game 7. But he didn't show up, just like last year. I don't think he fits powerball. He's become a one-dimensional jump shooter, and he's even inconsistent at that.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

mike bibby has played very well in the playoffs. last year he averaged over 19ppg and over 4 assists. He cannot do it by himself. the fact that the kings were sent home by seattle last year wasnt because of him. it was becuase we just lost webber, had 3 new guys that didnt know how to play in our system, and brad miller was a nonfactor. like he was this year.i admit that mike played better when the kings had webber, vlade and christie. that was because these guys could pass and find the open cutter. we did not have anyone this year that could pull duncan,nazr out of the paint. bibby's numbers were pretty decent against the best defense in the league. and at times he was gaurded by one of the top two perimeter defenders in the leauge (bowen). again, bibby had poor FG%, but he attacked. against the pistons last year (the 2nd best defensive team) parker only averaged 13ppg on .458 FG% and .183 3-point % and 3.4 assists

against the TOP defense in the leauge bibby averaged over 16ppg on .348 FG% and .346 3-point % and 5.2 assists. that's actually better than parker

tyrant · May 7, 2006

i understand your argument nbrans, but our problem has never been mike bibby. its our interior defense and our bench. and not only did miller stink it up on defense, the man racked up 4 points in game 6. 4!

Bricklayer · May 7, 2006

Thing is that even if we do go the power route, which I think we probably should, we will desperately need what Mike Bibby brings -- i.e. shooting. Doesn't mean you have to get it from Mike, but who better amongst PGs? Now you might be able to find a lower level PG who is good at catch and shooting, but doesn't do much else on offense. But then you leave yourself shy of overall offense.

A Ron/Bonzi/Martin off the bench trifecta is pretty potent, but not overwhelmingly so on offense. Figure minutes are maybe 38, 32, 26 and pts roughly 20, 15, 12 or so. And maybe you can convince Reef to come back off the bench and give you another 10-12 or so. But that's still only 58-60pts.

But now especially if you are also talking about replacing Brad (15ppg) with a defensive player, and then talking about replacing Mike with a defensive player...its all too much unless you somehow plug in 20+ppg at PF (i.e. KG basically).

tyrant · May 7, 2006

Bricklayer said:

i agree with the first paragraph, however are you talking to nbrans or me in the 3rd paragraph? nbrans thought we should trade bibby. i simply wanted to keep bibby and have his backup as a *defensive player that can is a decent spot up shooter.

right now im willing to trade brad miller for any high school center that can jump higher than 6 inches off the ground

nbrans · May 7, 2006

Bricklayer said:

Definitely agree that the team needs shooting. Thing is, Bibby wasn't that great of a shooter this year, and I think that element can be replaced by someone who also plays good defense. Here's a shooting % comparison:

Bibby: 43% FG, 38% 3P
Mike James: 47%, 44% 3P
Earl Watson: 43% FG, 40% 3P
Marcus Banks: 47%, 35% 3P

Now obviously it's not quite as simple as a matter of shooting percentages because Bibby had to take more shots than some of these guys and Watson wouldn't suddently turn into a 20ppg scorer, but if Bibby is going to be so one-dimensional and so inconsistent you might be better off with someone who will always play defense and score some points as well.

I agree that it will be necessary to find a 20 ppg scorer to go with the defensive lineup, but I'd like a 20 ppg scorer who shoots a higher percentage than Bibby and brings more to the table than just offense.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

nbrans said:

how many of the guys you listed been in crunch time moments? bibby is a proven point guard in crucial situations. and he does bring more to the table than jumpshooting. when defenses smother him he finds ways to get into the paint and get assists. that's why his assist average went up against minnesota in 2004 and the spurs in 2006. he also averaged 1.5 steals a game and more rebounds than brad miller.

nbrans · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

Bibby's willingness to take big shots was much more crucial to past Kings teams, when Webber, Christie, Peja, Vlade and Miller all looked completely terrified in crunch time. But this is a different team. Bonzi, Artest, Shareef and Kevin Martin have all showed an ability to take -- and make -- big shots, to the point that Bibby is not even called upon to take big shots every single time. In the past it was simple, the ball would go to Bibby, end of story. Now the Kings have multiple clutch guys, and so I don't think Bibby's clutchness is as crucial as it once was.

I mean, obviously you want as many of those types of guys as possible, but not when that's the only intangible they bring.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

all im saying is that mike bibby is one of the top point gaurds in the league. unless you're going to trade him for kidd, nash, billups, parker, baron davis (who isnt healthy) or arenas i dont see a point in letting him go.

sdballer · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

Not to be nit-picky but aren't you missing a few guys:

Iverson, Wade, Joe Johnson, and some of the up and coming younger guys (Paul, Hinrich, and others). You could argue that some of them aren't true pg's but let's be honest neither is Bibby. As someone said before, Bibby's only real exceptional skill is outside shooting and he's been struggling more with his shots recently.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

no way are we getting iverson or wade. joe johnson is not a point guard. not even close. you could argue chris paul, but that's about it. and im not taking a rookie who's averaging 16ppg over mike bibby

VF21 · May 7, 2006

Mike Bibby is also a very good floor general. You don't notice it a lot of times but he has excellent court vision. Of course, it requires the team to move. When they assume the GPAM® position, it's awfully hard for Bibby to do his job.

sdballer · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

I'm not saying we could get those guys, but that doesn't mean you eliminate them from a list of top pgs. The Joe Johnson thing is a toss up, as I think he brings a more complete game to the table. As for Paul, I would take him over Bibby in a heartbeat. You're talking about an absolute stud who could be a superstar in a couple of seasons.

To me, it's not so much about who you could trade Bibby for straight up at PG, because I don't think you'd get fair value. But if the team did decide to go that route, I think there would be teams willing to give up a couple of pieces for a player like Bibby.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

we have every player we need except for a good center. we have bibby,martin,bonzi and artest. you cant get much better than that on the perimeter.

Troy · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

True, but we need to start SAR at PF and trade/bench Miller and K9.

Bibby is good, but not 12.5M good for next year. Steve Nash is making $10.5 next year...tell me that is fair!!!!

While it might not seem fair to trade Bibby for Paul or Hinrich, I would do it, especially if we could get a backup PG as well and/or bigs. Bibby is making making way too much for what he brings to the table, him and Miller both. This is really getting me angry when you have your 2 highest paid players and captains of the teams totally chocking year in and year out in the playoffs. Artest, who turned us from being a sub par 500 teams, to a team that almost beat the Spurs in the 1st round deserves the big bucks along with Bonzi, who is due for the big bucks...it's just a matter now if we can pay and keep him.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

i dont think that's fair to bibby. he was the 3rd best player for the kings in this series. and look who was in front of him. bonzi wells putting up old chris webber numbers and ron artest. who showed aLOT of heart on defense while putting up 19 points a game. brad miller is the choker here. i aslo agree with starting SAR at the power forward and trading miller for a better pf/center.

Burrito06 · May 7, 2006

The last 3 years Bibby has been forced to play huge amounts of minutes. Yes, we had Bobby for the past 2 years but he missed lots of time to various injuries this year we had Hart, nuff said about that. If we ever get a descent back-up that could do things that Bobby did before his injuries, I think we could see a rejuvenated Bibby. If we also ge rid of this high-post offense where everything is ran through Brad then we will see the Mike who can create for his teammates.

Kings113 · May 7, 2006

Mike James has shown to be quite clutch over the last couple years, is a vet, and a champion too, being a key guy off the bench for the Pistons. Banks, hasn't really been in big situations much yet (from what I've seen), but he's a good young PG. Doesn't mean he's done bad in them either. Watson played 4th qtrs for Jason Williams most of last season with the Grizzlies, becuase of his defense and decision making. Watson had a number of nice games with the Nuggets, and Watson also proved to be key in a few nice runs for the Sonics in the 2nd half of this season. Playing big-time minutes off the bench.

tyrant · May 7, 2006

i hope you're not implying that james and watson would be better than mike bibby. but if you're saying we need a guy like james or watson to come in and take some strain off mike bibby then im all for it

nbrans · May 7, 2006

tyrant said:

Mike James was better last season than Mike Bibby. Just look at the stats, he was pretty incredible. He had better offensive stats, plus he plays good defnese. Earl Watson is not better than Mike Bibby (at least on offense), but if the Kings made a deal with Seattle to bring back Earl Watson and Ray Allen for Bibby and parts, it would be a great deal for the Kings.

Kings113 · May 7, 2006

Indeed ^. I watched a bunch of Raptor games because of James/Bosh, he was great.

Both can be and are starter material, but I'm not saying a direct swap of one of them for Bibby. Either would be fantastic back-ups for us or anyone.

Bricklayer · May 7, 2006

nbrans said:

And where perchance is your contract year harping when it comes to Mike James nbrans?

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