The Vlade question (split)

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Agree...Blow up the front office and start over. Keep Joerger as the head coach. The past two drafts alone are enough to warrant a change at GM. I have zero confidence Vlade can build any type of winning team.

We had a trash season. Traded AWAY assets. And we ended up with Skal, Papa, and Malachi Richardson. Is there any team in the modern NBA that has had so many draft picks over the years and ended up with so little? We haven't won more than 38 games in a DECADE and the only notable player we've ended up with is Boogie. Now that's not on Vlade of course. But his last two drafts have sucked out loud. This last one we might have had a better shot if we took all projected first rounders and just threw darts at the board.

Let's face it. Cousins is leaving. His prime is being wasted. It's like having a car that is constantly breaking down and doing repairs just to keep it running. But it barely runs. Often doesn't start. And is unreliable. So your tires are bald. Your engine is overheating. Your oil is leaking. And Kragen Auto Parts was like "Hey it's that time of the year. Come pick a few things you need for free!" And then Vlade returns with an air freshener and one of those furry steering wheel covers.
 
The Kings has been horribly managed for the past decade.

If you took any armchair GM from the street(myself included), I'm not so sure that we could have done a worse job....
 
The Kings has been horribly managed for the past decade.

If you took any armchair GM from the street(myself included), I'm not so sure that we could have done a worse job....
This is the truth. It is amazing to see the stupid decisions over and over. Marquis Chriss might or might not work in the NBA, but it was the obvious choice. Too obvious for Vlade. Now he is starting for the Suns while our three scrubs are camped out in Reno! Why in the world would you pass on an NBA ready starter for three guys who might never play! It is like they just don't get it. Would Chriss make mistakes? Sure. But he is something for us fans to look forward to in the future.
 
The Kings has been horribly managed for the past decade.

If you took any armchair GM from the street(myself included), I'm not so sure that we could have done a worse job....

Any other team id say a comment like this would be ridiculous. With this team you are 100% correct.
 
We need a GM who can go out and sell the team/arena/city. Someone who understands a winning culture like the Spurs and Warriors and can sell a vision. And understands scouting and drafting. Vlade couldn't get a good trade done right now if his life depended on it.
 
We need a GM who can go out and sell the team/arena/city. Someone who understands a winning culture like the Spurs and Warriors and can sell a vision. And understands scouting and drafting. Vlade couldn't get a good trade done right now if his life depended on it.

And Do you trust Vivek to hire a GM like that? ;-)
 
I understand that...but I still don't understand how he is one of the best things that has happened to the Kings?

Nothing I say is going to improve your understanding of my position. Let's just leave it at - I want Vlade t be in charge of basketball operations, players, coaches, evaluate players and team needs, oversee drafting of players, oversee trades and free agent transactions, run the show. Nothing that has happened so far has altered my view. You disagree. I think there is room for both views. Let's play ball.
 
Nothing I say is going to improve your understanding of my position. Let's just leave it at - I want Vlade t be in charge of basketball operations, players, coaches, evaluate players and team needs, oversee drafting of players, oversee trades and free agent transactions, run the show. Nothing that has happened so far has altered my view. You disagree. I think there is room for both views. Let's play ball.
Fair enough..Go Kings
 
Nothing I say is going to improve your understanding of my position. Let's just leave it at - I want Vlade t be in charge of basketball operations, players, coaches, evaluate players and team needs, oversee drafting of players, oversee trades and free agent transactions, run the show. Nothing that has happened so far has altered my view. You disagree. I think there is room for both views. Let's play ball.
me too. I don't see how he has made enough 'mistakes' to warrant all this negativity towards him. Monday morning QB'ing the draft is such chickencrap. Most people thought WCS was a reasonable pick - certainly not far fetched to put another KY big next to Cuz. And we got Bogdan and Skal out of the last draft, plus a dice roll on Papa that has not been proven wrong yet.

Pick swaps to Philly - not proven a mistake yet
Drafting Papa - not proven a mistake yet
Passing on Mudiay - not proven a mistake yet

I'm completely fine with Vlade.
 
It would be moronic do fire anyone who has barely been on the job. Stability is needed, not another knee jerk reaction to nothing. There is a sense of stability right now....except for a small percentage of the fanbase.

As a long time sports fan of many different sports, I think I have a good feel what constitutes a good GM. I wish Vlade was this but IMO, I don't think he is. Unfortunately I think we're gonna contiue to wallow in mediocrity for many many years and we're gonna hold onto vlade because kings fans are emotionally attached to what he did for us as a player. Oh well, it is what it is......
 
I would go ahead and fire Vlade now. Do all you can to keep Cousins. No way he is going to stay around for this poopoo Show and by his remarks during the draft last year he doesn't agree with Vlade's draft decision. As I mentioned before, several of the minority owners are very vocal about Vlade's lack of knowledge and direction

What your advocating is exactly why the Kings are as bad as they are. The Kings are already the laughing stock of the NBA, and you want to fire the new GM when he's essentially been here for one full season. How soon before you want to fire Joerger? How soon before you want to trade a player that you wanted us to sign? This is ridiculous. You think a new GM is going to turn around 10 or more years of bad decisions in one year? It took Petrie five years before he finally had the team he wanted. Petrie knew we needed capspace, and he had to wait for the right moment. He drafted Peja, and was willing to wait two years for him to come over. He got booed for that decision.

Sorry if I seem a bit testy, but I'am so sick of this kind of crap. People on this forum see a player that they want signed in freeagency, and when he goes to another team, they want to fire our GM, as though he's some kind of god that can dictate to players that they have to sign with us. Unfortunately we seem to live in an instant gratification society. No one has any patience, nor will they give a player, a GM, or a new Coach a chance to prove themselves if that person wasn't their choice.

Sadly, too often the Kings organization has reflected that same attitude, giving up on coaches and players, after rushing into decisions to hire them in the first place. Anyone noticed how Nik Stauskas is playing so far this season? 24 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 55.3% fgp, and 45.7% 3pp. I have no idea if he can maintain that, but if he can, then where are all those naysayers that wanted him gone and labeled him a bust? Every new administration comes in and has a different way of doing things, and the players are victims of that. A first round pick can go from playing 25 minutes a game his rookie year, to 10 minutes a game his sophmore year simply because there's a new boss with a new system in town. Neither the player, or the new coach is to blame; but the results reflect the constant change.

Some on the forum didn't like Vlade's draft picks this season. I get that! I, like many others wanted Baldwin as our first round pick. Not that I thought Baldwin was going to be the next Chris Paul or Damian Lillard, but because we needed a PG, and I thought Baldwin was the best one left. But I could have argued for several players that I liked. Papagiannis I had never heard of, so I couldn't honestly express an opinion on him. However, after seeing him in summer league up close and personal, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed. But none of that doesn't mean that three years from now he won't be a good player. You have to give them time. Especially big men and PG's.

The same applies to GM's. No one knows what Vlade's long range plan is. But based on his signings this off season, and how the contracts were drawn up, it's apparent to me that he does have a long range plan. I know we would all like to know what it is, but if he told us, then he would be telling the rest of the league as well. So we have to give him our trust and be patient. Not forever, but for a reasonable period of time, which to my mind is a minimum of three years, but ideally five years. As I said, it was Petrie's fifth year when it all came together. As reminder, in Petrie's fourth year the team won 27 games. If you think people weren't upset then your nuts. Turns out, he knew what he was doing.

Let me be clear. I have no idea if Vlade will be successful or not, but I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself. Contrary to what some may think, this isn't rocket science. Vlade knows the game of basketball. He knows what works and what doesn't. The trick is to get everyone on the same page with pieces that fit together properly. Right now, we don't have a team. We have a group of pieces, some of which are ill fitting. Joerger is trying to figure out which one's to keep, and which one's to let go. Unfortunately for the fans, it can be a painful process. But if it was easy, every team in the league would a contender.
 
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There's a very simple rule with management that applies everywhere.

Give your workers the tools they need to succeed.

While I'm pleased we don't have much financial hardship with bad contracts, our roster needs adjustments.

By the start of next season I hope our roster reflects Joerger's needs.
 
Agree...Blow up the front office and start over. Keep Joerger as the head coach. The past two drafts alone are enough to warrant a change at GM. I have zero confidence Vlade can build any type of winning team.

I'd also prefer Vlade not be the GM, but you run the risk of repeating this cycle over again of bringing in a GM that didn't hire the coach...and I think Joerger is worth keeping around for a while. I'd like to see Vlade "promoted" to some other position and Catanella take over the GM duties.
 
I'd also prefer Vlade not be the GM, but you run the risk of repeating this cycle over again of bringing in a GM that didn't hire the coach...and I think Joerger is worth keeping around for a while. I'd like to see Vlade "promoted" to some other position and Catanella take over the GM duties.
This is exactly what I have been thinking was the plan all along. Ken was very well thought of in Detroit. I could easily see Vlade taking however long he wants to right the ship with the intention of handing the reins over to Ken down the line.
 
What your advocating is exactly why the Kings are as bad as they are. The Kings are already the laughing stock of the NBA, and you want to fire the new GM when he's essentially been here for one full season. How soon before you want to fire Joerger? How soon before you want to trade a player that you wanted us to sign? This is ridiculous. You think a new GM is going to turn around 10 or more years of bad decisions in one year? It took Petrie five years before he finally had the team he wanted. Petrie knew we needed capspace, and he had to wait for the right moment. He drafted Peja, and was willing to wait two years for him to come over. He got booed for that decision.

Sorry if I seem a bit testy, but I'am so sick of this kind of crap. People on this forum see a player that they want signed in freeagency, and when he goes to another team, they want to fire our GM, as though he's some kind of god that can dictate to players that they have to sign with us. Unfortunately we seem to live in an instant gratification society. No one has any patience, nor will they give a player, a GM, or a new Coach a chance to prove themselves if that person wasn't their choice.

Sadly, too often the Kings organization has reflected that same attitude, giving up on coaches and players, after rushing into decisions to hire them in the first place. Anyone noticed how Nik Stauskas is playing so far this season? 24 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 55.3% fgp, and 45.7% 3pp. I have no idea if he can maintain that, but if he can, then where are all those naysayers that wanted him gone and labeled him a bust? Every new administration comes in and has a different way of doing things, and the players are victims of that. A first round pick can go from playing 25 minutes a game his rookie year, to 10 minutes a game his sophmore year simply because there's a new boss with a new system in town. Neither the player, or the new coach is to blame; but the results reflect the constant change.

Some on the forum didn't like Vlade's draft picks this season. I get that! I, like many others wanted Baldwin as our first round pick. Not that I thought Baldwin was going to be the next Chris Paul or Damian Lillard, but because we needed a PG, and I thought Baldwin was the best one left. But I could have argued for several players that I liked. Papagiannis I had never heard of, so I couldn't honestly express an opinion on him. However, after seeing him in summer league up close and personal, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed. But none of that doesn't mean that three years from now he won't be a good player. You have to give them time. Especially big men and PG's.

The same applies to GM's. No one knows what Vlade's long range plan is. But based on his signings this off season, and how the contracts were drawn up, it's apparent to me that he does have a long range plan. I know we would all like to know what it is, but if he told us, then he would be telling the rest of the league as well. So we have to give him our trust and be patient. Not forever, but for a reasonable period of time, which to my mind is a minimum of three years, but ideally five years. As I said, it was Petrie's fifth year when it all came together. As reminder, in Petrie's fourth year the team won 27 games. If you think people weren't upset then your nuts. Turns out, he knew what he was doing.

Let me be clear. I have no idea if Vlade will be successful or not, but I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself. Contrary to what some may think, this isn't rocket science. Vlade knows the game of basketball. He knows what works and what doesn't. The trick is to get everyone on the same page with pieces that fit together properly. Right now, we don't have a team. We have a group of pieces, some of which are ill fitting. Joerger is trying to figure out which one's to keep, and which one's to let go. Unfortunately for the fans, it can be a painful process. But if it was easy, every team in the league would a contender.

I agree with the call to be patient and give Vlade time to put together a winner. Haven't we suffered through enough knee-jerk decisions that have led to where we currently dwell? Sports fans are prone to instant gratification. But most rookies don't find themselves in their first year or two, and many take 3-4 years to figure it out. Some really are busts that you can and should walk away from. Quincy Douby and Jimmer Fredette quickly spring to mind. But for every bust there's a Hassan Whiteside or a Isaiah Thomas that serve to remind us that it can pay to be a little patient. Play the long-game.
 
And Do you trust Vivek to hire a GM like that? ;-)
I have stayed away from this forum a few days. We have a team and organization that has been unstable. Coaches, etc. and players come and go. Curiously, Boogie has been the only rock.

I trust that if Vlade thinks he can't eventually do the job, he will replace himself somehow. As it is, keeping him is a sign of stability. We don't know if his moves this year were good or bad. We are starting out in a hellish schedule. Let's see what eventually happens. There is no hurry.

Change, change, change is what so many people want. I suspect the players don't want that. I think back a short time ago when Rudy defended Vlade's new guys. Rudy sees something he likes and as a guy who wants to leave (maybe) that was quite a comment. There is no magic to recovering from the last decade. I can wait.





Edit: Oh, I see bajaden's note. Yes indeedy, dude.
 
We need a GM who can go out and sell the team/arena/city. Someone who understands a winning culture like the Spurs and Warriors and can sell a vision. And understands scouting and drafting. Vlade couldn't get a good trade done right now if his life depended on it.

You are starting to sound more and more like a troll, and your getting very close to being on my ignore list. Your trying just a little too hard to go after a person that you know is very popular with the fans. You ignore anyone that supports Vlade. You do nothing but make outrageous statements that are intended to provoke. To me, that's the definition of a troll.
 
This is the truth. It is amazing to see the stupid decisions over and over. Marquis Chriss might or might not work in the NBA, but it was the obvious choice. Too obvious for Vlade. Now he is starting for the Suns while our three scrubs are camped out in Reno! Why in the world would you pass on an NBA ready starter for three guys who might never play! It is like they just don't get it. Would Chriss make mistakes? Sure. But he is something for us fans to look forward to in the future.

When did a 19 year old rookie become a NBA ready starter? The only reason he is starting for Phoenix is because the Suns are in a rebuilding phase so they are giving their three rookies playing time, rightfully so. They have nothing to lose and can only go up, they tank this year and nab themselves a PG prospect since it's heavily loaded with them and ship off one or both Bledsoe/Knight in the process and insert rookie PG/Tyler Ulis.
 
You are starting to sound more and more like a troll, and your getting very close to being on my ignore list. Your trying just a little too hard to go after a person that you know is very popular with the fans. You ignore anyone that supports Vlade. You do nothing but make outrageous statements that are intended to provoke. To me, that's the definition of a troll.
Starting to ? Been that way for awhile
 
It’s not Vlade’s fault he can’t sign free agents. Even the slightest big name will demand a 10 % Kangz tax. I don’t know if he was a great choice for GM, but I do believe that Vivek hired him, in part, to regain the affection of malcontent fans.
 
Agree...Blow up the front office and start over. Keep Joerger as the head coach. The past two drafts alone are enough to warrant a change at GM. I have zero confidence Vlade can build any type of winning team.
Dear sir...please tell us how you would intend to spin straw into gold. Much appreciated.
 
You are starting to sound more and more like a troll, and your getting very close to being on my ignore list. Your trying just a little too hard to go after a person that you know is very popular with the fans. You ignore anyone that supports Vlade. You do nothing but make outrageous statements that are intended to provoke. To me, that's the definition of a troll.
Uh..so because I don't like Vlade I am a troll? If i wasn't a Kings fan then why would I be on this site? I am as big of a Kings fan as anyone, I am going to the game tonight actually, but just because I like the Kings does not mean I am going to support Vlade as the GM. I respect your opinion and anyone elses on this site, as well as I support the players and our Joerger, but Vlade already lost me. If that makes me a troll then fine with me, I just want to see the Kings win.
 
Dear sir...please tell us how you would intend to spin straw into gold. Much appreciated.
I have no idea, but that is what your boy Vlade and Vivek are asking Joerger to do. Here is a roster with one all-star, one above average player, some old free agents and terrible draft picks ---now go win!
 
Uh..so because I don't like Vlade I am a troll? If i wasn't a Kings fan then why would I be on this site? I am as big of a Kings fan as anyone, I am going to the game tonight actually, but just because I like the Kings does not mean I am going to support Vlade as the GM. I respect your opinion and anyone elses on this site, as well as I support the players and our Joerger, but Vlade already lost me. If that makes me a troll then fine with me, I just want to see the Kings win.
Getting rid of Vlade means Joerger would go too. GM's tend to want to hire their own coaches. How did it work out last time?
 
Getting rid of Vlade means Joerger would go too. GM's tend to want to hire their own coaches. How did it work out last time?
This is not always true...and if we are forced to endure Vlade for a few years then I agree with Grant Napear when he says Vlade should sit down with Joerger and let Coach make the decisions on who stays and who goes as well as draft decisions. I do not trust Vlade to do anything.
 
This is not always true...and if we are forced to endure Vlade for a few years then I agree with Grant Napear when he says Vlade should sit down with Joerger and let Coach make the decisions on who stays and who goes as well as draft decisions. I do not trust Vlade to do anything.

I'm pretty sure Vlade speaks with Joerger on a regular basis, but GMs do not leave key decisions in the hands of coaches. Nor should they.

I find it hard to believe that Grant actually made a statement like that...well, let me rephrase. I'd find it hard for any sports broadcaster to make that statement if his name was anything Grant Napear who has, for years, made controversial statements that contain little to no knowledge of how a basketball team is run.
 
I'm pretty sure Vlade speaks with Joerger on a regular basis, but GMs do not leave key decisions in the hands of coaches. Nor should they.

I find it hard to believe that Grant actually made a statement like that...well, let me rephrase. I'd find it hard for any sports broadcaster to make that statement if his name was anything Grant Napear who has, for years, made controversial statements that contain little to no knowledge of how a basketball team is run.
It was on his show a few weeks ago on his show in reference to the Cousins trade rumors He said something along the lines of "I believe Dave Joerger is going to win here, I truly believe that...and with that I don't know who is going to stay and who is going to go and I am not saying the Kings should or shouldn't trade anyone but I do believe Vlade should sit down with Coach Joerger and go over each player position by position to see what HE wants to do."

Then he went into the draft discussion about Coach feedback.
 
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