The Precious

[VF21]

I know several people on PacersDigest and have been discussing this with them, since they've lived through this whole thing...

Here's what one of them had to say:

I swear, the more time goes by, the more this comparison seems like one of the best: Ron is like the One Ring from Lord of the Rings. Seems innocent enough at first, then you're blown away by its power. So much so that as you become more and more obsessed with it, quietly it's corrupting you; sending you down a dark path. Then, if you don't get rid of it in time, it destroys what you were when the whole thing started.

The Pacers are still recovering. The Kings will be recovering for years as well. The man is a franchise ruiner. Now granted, both of our franchises have made multiple OTHER mistakes to get us here, but at the top of that mountain of mistakes/issues sits "Ron Ron".

[Gollum voice; with LOTR music in the background]"Basically nothing" you say? Perhaps Davis Harrison would be enough for the Precious to come home.... yes.... the Precious..... AHHHHHHHHHH!!!

FYI - From this day forward, I shall be using the term "the Precious" to refer to the enigma that is Ron Artest.

 

[tyrant]

didnt he play for the bulls? they turned out fine. lord knows what happened to them this year. ron was a great player when he 1st came to sacto. ending the season 26-14 and squeaking into the playoffs. after being eliminated to the spurs that wouldve been the time to trade him. he's ruined the pacers yes, but this team was already screwed by kenny thomas. i will refer to kenny as the "precious". until he is gone. and maybe even after.

 

[midtowner]

Ron did not ruin the Kings

Although watching Ron play right now is a bit like watching a smoldering volcano in your backyard, the Kings are way better off having traded for him. We received Ron for Peja. If the Kings would have locked Peja up to the contract that New Orleans signed him for, our franchise would be in much worse shape than it is now with Ron. We either trade Ron or he leaves at the end of the year. Either way, his time with the Kings will in no way resemble the part he played in the downfall of the Pacers.

 

[VF21]

Although watching Ron play right now is a bit like watching a smoldering volcano in your backyard, the Kings are way better off having traded for him. We received Ron for Peja. If the Kings would have locked Peja up to the contract that New Orleans signed him for, our franchise would be in much worse shape than it is now with Ron. We either trade Ron or he leaves at the end of the year. Either way, his time with the Kings will in no way resemble the part he played in the downfall of the Pacers.

You're assuming, of course, that nothing else happens ... and that's not an assumption I can feel very comfortable about.

 

[Tmassfan4life]

Ron Artest = The One Ring

Kenny Thomas = The Two Ring

 

[kingsfan101]

Although watching Ron play right now is a bit like watching a smoldering volcano in your backyard, the Kings are way better off having traded for him. We received Ron for Peja. If the Kings would have locked Peja up to the contract that New Orleans signed him for, our franchise would be in much worse shape than it is now with Ron. We either trade Ron or he leaves at the end of the year. Either way, his time with the Kings will in no way resemble the part he played in the downfall of the Pacers.

His antics are making the first more difficult by the day. As for leaving at the end of the year, it's not a given. I would welcome that, even if it means we don't get anything in return, instead of signing him (unlikely, but don't know if the Maloofs still love him).

 

[VF21]

Ron Artest = The One Ring

Kenny Thomas = The Two Ring

That's just silly, IMHO. KT isn't even active right now. He's not doing ANYTHING to hurt this team. And the financial part is totally irrelevant compared to everything else.

 

[tyrant]

doesnt he make like 7 million a year? *sigh*. someone that sucks that bad

 

[VF21]

And he'd make that even if we bought him out. Kenny Thomas isn't the problem. He's a lot like Brent Price, to whom we paid a whole year's salary while he stayed home.

The real problem about KT isn't Kenny Thomas himself, IMHO, it's the structuring of the CBA that doesn't have provision for players who sign obscene contracts and then totally fail to earn them.

But I suspect that's another topic for another thread.

I still think the comparison of Ron Artest to Golllum's obsession is about the best I've seen, which is why I posted it.

 

[tyrant]

on the court mikki moore is as bad as kenny thomas. its sad. its so sad i cant help but to laugh.

 

[DocHolliday]

I know several people on PacersDigest and have been discussing this with them, since they've lived through this whole thing...

Here's what one of them had to say:



FYI - From this day forward, I shall be using the term "the Precious" to refer to the enigma that is Ron Artest.

The problem with this comparison is that the Kings are trying to recover from the normal up and down cycle that happens with teams. Ron Artest is not the reason this team is rebuilding, he is also not the reason that it will take some time to rebuild.

When Ron opts out at the end of the season what damage will be left over??? None is the answer. Nothing besides a few games that could have been won if he didn't go into 1 man against the world mode. He didn't ruin a championship run, in fact he hasn't ruined anything.

Nothing will be left in the wake except a dog that wasn't fed properly for a little bit, and a domestic dispute case, both of which are his problems to deal with...not ours.

And, yes VF, this is assuming nothing else happens. Why would I assume that you ask, people shouldn't assume right? Well I assume, because other than a few small scuffles which lots of players get into, Ron Artest has given us no reason to believe he is going to completely lose it and jump in the stands.

Let's go the negative way. Let's say he does? Ok, he gets suspended, John Salmons gets to play the rest of the year, and Artest either opts out at the end of the year or is banned permanently from the league. Not a horrible situtation. If he were to get in a fight again, it will most likely be with someone on the court, and not in the stands. I don't think fans will be too eager to throw anything at Ron Artest. They saw what happened the last time someone did.

 

[VF21]

You're making the same assumption - that things won't get any worse before the end of the season. A rotten apple can do a lot of damage in a barrel of good ones if it's left there long enough...

 

[Heuge]

You're making the same assumption - that things won't get any worse before the end of the season. A rotten apple can do a lot of damage in a barrel of good ones if it's left there long enough...

You do know what happens when you assume...

 

[CruzDude]

doesnt he make like 7 million a year? *sigh*. someone that sucks that bad

Yeah! That's $150,000 a week to sit on the bench and worse, now he is "Inactive".

 

[VF21]

???

In my book, paying him $150,000 a week not to play isn't that bad a deal. How much are we paying Musselman not to coach?

 

[Gary]

on the court mikki moore is as bad as kenny thomas. its sad. its so sad i cant help but to laugh.

Depends on which area we are talking about here.. At least Moore can defend a tad. By no way am I saying Moore is starting material, and you are right, they both suck as starters, but I think Moore is better than KT at this point.

What ever happened to that 15/9 KT we had a few years back? ugh.

 

[C Diddy]

???

In my book, paying him $150,000 a week not to play isn't that bad a deal. How much are we paying Musselman not to coach?

About 2000 12-packs a week.

Ron Artest hasn't blown up yet. Let's hope he doesn't. We have some quality young players that I don't want to see negatively influenced by him. I still hope we are able to trade him before the deadline.

 

[hrdboild]

This is the tricky part of the "should we tank" argument. I don't think it should be considered tanking if you trade your best players for draft picks and young players. That's just being proactive and accepting the reality that your present isn't going to be much better so you might as well plan for the future. However, trading your best players also takes you that much further from actually fielding a competitive team. Now you've got a lot more holes to fill. We almost lucked out there for awhile with all the injuries (sortof like Boston did last year with Pierce). If you can keep your best players stashed on the injury list you can lose a lot of games and still get those players back next year.

Now here's where I get back to the topic at hand (thank you for your patience) -- now that Ron Artest and Bibby are healthy, their talent is going to pretty much guarantee us a midling pick along with dubious playoff contention. That gets us nowhere this year or next year with the added bonus of an uncertain contract situation after this season. That's just about as bad as it gets. So since we're not lucky enough to let injuries do the thinking for us, now is the time to do something proactive. And with Ron Artest, I think the ultimate question is how valuable you expect him to be for the franchise. This is gut-check time. The Peja trade was a proactive move and it earned us a "trial run" so to speak with Ron as a King. At the time Artest looked like he was on his way to being an elite player in the league. Potentially a two-time DPOY if not for the brawl and subsequent suspension, people were even talking MVP early that season -- and that talk was IMO justified. But what have we got now? I haven't seen Ron grow as a player as might have been expected. His defense has been great but not elite. His offense has pretty much remained the same. (You could say stagnated if you were feeling vindictive, but that's just a matter of semantics). So the question is, looking at who Ron is now and the potential risk of signing the big contract he wants -- even looking past allthe off-the-court stuff -- is Artest worth re-signing?

...And while I don't think it's really fair to continue to criticize the guy for actions he took years ago and has since apologized for repeatedly (sorry but the whole One Ring analogy seems like exactly the kind of smirking jab that scorned fans level at their former favorite player after he gets traded -- basically, Pacers fans are the last place I would look for a fair and balanced opinion of Ron Artest) -- it does seem increasingly clear to me that Ron Artest, the player, is not the franchise cornerstone we need to be investing the next four, five, or six years of this teams future on. Best case scenario for me, he lives up to all the potential he showed as an emerging star on the Pacers and we keep him around as the anchor of a very good defensive team. But based on everything I've seen on the court, I don't think I could justify that contract extension right now and thus the smart move would be to trade him ASAP for the highest draft pick we can get.

 

[Glenn]

The real problem about KT isn't Kenny Thomas himself, IMHO, it's the structuring of the CBA that doesn't have provision for players who sign obscene contracts and then totally fail to earn them.

Bingo! Other sports are not so player friendly.

 

[Entity]

So Ron screams and pounds his chest a little and all of a sudden he is on a downhill path? he also got 2 unwarented techs. In fact Kevin made more of a move to fight than did Ron yet not tech for Martin. Then Boozer squeezes Rons hand in his armpit and Ron rips it out and gets a tech WTF. I wouldn't say I am a Ron appologist by saying this it was just unfounded by the refs.

 

[VF21]

So Ron screams and pounds his chest a little and all of a sudden he is on a downhill path? he also got 2 unwarented techs. In fact Kevin made more of a move to fight than did Ron yet not tech for Martin. Then Boozer squeezes Rons hand in his armpit and Ron rips it out and gets a tech WTF. I wouldn't say I am a Ron appologist by saying this it was just unfounded by the refs.

It's not just the Utah game. It's not about a couple of missed calls or over-reactions by officials.

If you don't hear the ticking, I actually almost envy you... Let's hope nothing happens but also hope the organization is preparing for what they'll do if something DOES happen.

 

[Gary]

So Ron screams and pounds his chest a little and all of a sudden he is on a downhill path? he also got 2 unwarented techs. In fact Kevin made more of a move to fight than did Ron yet not tech for Martin. Then Boozer squeezes Rons hand in his armpit and Ron rips it out and gets a tech WTF. I wouldn't say I am a Ron appologist by saying this it was just unfounded by the refs.

It's all about history though.. Ron has a shorter leash than others because he has had those problems in the past.

I guess the best analogy is that if a druggie was pulled over by cops they would search him and give him a hard time right? If it was just your avg everyday guy like myself I have no reason to be looked at in that light so they would ticket me and be on their way. I don't have a past, the druggie does.

We will always "wait" for Ron to explode, and recently it has got to the point that it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. He seems to be getting worse as time goes on. Not sure why, but the quicker he is out of here the better.

 

[Kingzrool]

We have talked about the "ticking" for a while now. Kind of like a ticking clock, nothing really happens. The wife and dog things were completely blown out of proportion by the press and both were questionable and went away for the most part.

Ron has does nothing but work harder for less than most in his profession for this franchise. And I will always respect and admire him as a player for that.

I realize that he has the potential to go out with a bang. But VF, lets face it, you have always been apprehensive of Artest because of these guys on the Pacers site. Assuming that he will explode is also assuming, and not on the optomistic side. I am sure that he will say stupid stuff to the press and make it hard to trade, but that does not negate all that he has given IMO.

As far as "precious" goes, I hope you do not use it, it seems disrespectful to me.

 

[Gary]

What about the profanity laced tirade which we could "kind of" hear on TV when Bibby didn't pass him the ball. What about the calling of timeouts w/o coach approval. What about the recent technicals. There are a lot of "what abouts" when it comes to Artest. He's not the only guy out there who makes a scene but he's the only one with the questionable history.

 

[VF21]

We have talked about the "ticking" for a while now. Kind of like a ticking clock, nothing really happens. The wife and dog things were completely blown out of proportion by the press and both were questionable and went away for the most part.

Ron has does nothing but work harder for less than most in his profession for this franchise. And I will always respect and admire him as a player for that.

I realize that he has the potential to go out with a bang. But VF, lets face it, you have always been apprehensive of Artest because of these guys on the Pacers site. Assuming that he will explode is also assuming, and not on the optomistic side. I am sure that he will say stupid stuff to the press and make it hard to trade, but that does not negate all that he has given IMO.

As far as "precious" goes, I hope you do not use it, it seems disrespectful to me.

It's not about the wife thing or the dog thing, both of which I pretty much said were over-reactions right from the start.

I'd have been apprehensive of Ron Artest even without the comments from PacersDigest. And watching him slowly seem to melt down recently has done nothing at all to assuage my fears.

The drama about Ron Artest has taken up way too much press and too much attention, IMHO. I liked the team better when he wasn't playing. And just today I read in the paper he was a game-time decision (his own) for the Sonics game because of a sore foot and a sore knee. We don't need that - any of it.

The lure of a player like Ron Artest is exactly as Hicks explained it with the comparison to the "one ring" being pretty descriptive. Will I actually start calling Artest "The Precious"? Probably not. For one thing, it takes more letters than either Ron or Artest and when I'm typing the PBP, the fewer letters the better. That doesn't change the validity of the comparison however.

Our team - going forward - will be better once Ron Artest has moved on. Can you truly disagree with that statement?

EDIT: I just remembered that you aren't able to see most games so this could be part of the problem. Part of my opinion is based on things I see (as Gary has pointed out above).

 

[Kingzrool]

Our team - going forward - will be better once Ron Artest has moved on. Can you truly disagree with that statement?

I would if I did not know that Ron is ready to go. If he wanted to be here, I would argue to keep him. Call me Golumn(sp?) if you like. He is clearly ready to go, so it will be better once he is gone.

EDIT: I just remembered that you aren't able to see most games so this could be part of the problem. Part of my opinion is based on things I see (as Gary has pointed out above).

True. And from the little that I have seen, I agree in the lack of passion. Again, only because he is ready to go. I still think that in the end, he will have contributed more than subtracted.

 

[Packt]

Originally Posted by Hicks
I swear, the more time goes by, the more this comparison seems like one of the best: Ron is like the One Ring from Lord of the Rings. Seems innocent enough at first, then you're blown away by its power. So much so that as you become more and more obsessed with it, quietly it's corrupting you; sending you down a dark path. Then, if you don't get rid of it in time, it destroys what you were when the whole thing started.

The Pacers are still recovering. The Kings will be recovering for years as well. The man is a franchise ruiner. Now granted, both of our franchises have made multiple OTHER mistakes to get us here, but at the top of that mountain of mistakes/issues sits "Ron Ron".

[Gollum voice; with LOTR music in the background]"Basically nothing" you say? Perhaps Davis Harrison would be enough for the Precious to come home.... yes.... the Precious..... AHHHHHHHHHH!!!

That's laughable. I know Hicks posts here also, but why would anyone care what Pacers fans think.

I don't understand why Larry Bird doesn't get more blame for the Pacers free fall. Artest didn't ruin that franchise, management did. All this recovering BS has everything to do with the incompetence of Pacers management, and Larry Legend sits atop that throne.

We sent them a former All-star still in his prime, some one who put up very good numbers for them considering the situation. They didn't want to pay him so they let him walk in FA. They traded for Marquis Daniels using Croshere who was a Bird project to begin with. Bird got his star player to sign a max contract by telling him that the coach he called a father figure would be there if he signed; they fire the coach a few weeks before the season start.

Ron was already a known problem, but there was no way of predicting what would eventually happen in Detroit. One thing for sure is the intensity of the game was ratcheted up a notch with Carlisle on the Pacers bench. Carlisle, the man who got fired because he couldn't get along with the Pistons big men. That's the guy they hired to replace Isiah.

The Kings have been recovering before Ron got here, and in a lot of ways Ron saved us. His arrival pushed us into the playoffs, and extended the Peja situation to give Petrie time to figure out what to do next. Peja would've walked on us anyhow, and if Ron explodes *I really hope that doesn't happen* that would at least be a gift for Salmons' fans.

Looking at everything that has happened with Indiana during and after Ron left, it looks like Ron is the one recovering from them and not the other way around. Ron would be a very valuable piece for us if he didn't have the stink of what happened in Indy following him.

*my bad on the gollum part.

 

[VF21]

Never said Ron was Gollum. Ron is being compared to "The Precious," which was Gollum's word for the "one ring." Hence the title of the thread.

 

[hrdboild]

Never said Ron was Gollum. Ron is being compared to "The Precious," which was Gollum's word for the "one ring." Hence the title of the thread.

I see the point VF, not exactly that Ron can be reduced to a dramatic point in a fiction novel, but more that the "promise" of Ron Artest has always outshone the reality. He can be a shutdown defender. He can be a go-to scorer. He can be a leader who rallies players around him to rise to the challenge. But how often does he do all of that consistently? A little like fool's gold in a way. I don't know if there's enough support for the claim that Ron Artest ruins franchises. He hasn't wrecked Sacramento yet, he didn't wreck Chicago, and Indiana has a lot of other problems besides just Artest (though he was clearly a catalyst) -- but at the least he's frustratingly unreliable and that's going to prevent him from ever being a franchise player.

 

[DocHolliday]

Our team - going forward - will be better once Ron Artest has moved on. Can you truly disagree with that statement?

I think this team will be better when it is not saddled with certain contracts and we are able to add talent to an already growing young team.

Will that team be better off as it starts to take off without Ron...yes. I don't think Ron is damaging anything but the money he will be able to make in his next contract by arguing with the coach and showing signs of being a bit bi-polar.

I honestly do not think he is doing anything bad to this team, nor will how he acts have a long lasting effect on this team when he's gone. Remember, we can observe what we see through the T.V. and at games. These people travel with him and spend a lot of time with him. They know "It's just Ron", and "Take it with a grain of salt". It may be annoying, but that's about it.

Even if he gets in a fight and gets suspended or banned. He does not hurt the organization. As I said before, he will get suspended or banned, the Kings don't have to pay him because of that, and Salmons gets to start. Where is the damage to the organization itself?

If he acts poorly, he damages only himself at this point. He is not Kobe (although he thinks he is), we aren't depending on him, and we are not making a championship run.