The Kings Problem in a Nutshell - No Chemistry & Ron Artest

When watching the Kings game to game the stats really mean little to me. The Kings of 2002 would see Peja go for 25 on one night and then for 10 on another but they won both games, it just meant someone else picked up the slack or someone else was hot and they just went to him more, that's the mark of a good team. So it doesn't bother me to see Kevin go for 25 on one night and then 10 on another...it bothers me when Kevin is aggressive one night and then passive on the other and we lose that game.

What I'm saying is that stats mean very little when compared to how the team is playing together, how the team flows. Well the problem is that this team does not flow well with the current players it has. Sure, they can flow well against Atlanta at home but let's get real...this team in its current form has grown together about as well as it will, about a .500 team. I don't think any of the guys are poor players, Martin & Artest are all-star caliber, Beno, Cisco, Douby, & Salmons are solid players, Miller is having a career year, and Hawes & Sheldon have plenty of potential. This isn't an individual problem, this is about team chemistry. So let's look at the main problems and find causes.

1. Offensive Inefficiency & Turnovers: The main cause I see to this is pretty obvious...poor floor spacing. The poor floor spacing causes players to stop moving without the ball, it clogs the lane so you can't penetrate, and screens fail to get anyone open because help defense is an arm length away.

2. Lack of Transition Baskets: This team is built to run and gun and therefore they rely on a lot of easy baskets, if they don't get them then they're done for. Right now the team feels very sluggish and rarely beats any opponents' transition defense down the floor. Add that to the fact that their defense is so poor right now that they get near as many opportunities to run as they did earlier in the year.

3. Defense, Defense, Defense: Earlier stopping the opponents perimeter game was the biggest problem for our defense, now they've focused on that and as a result the interior defense is a problem and for some reason the perimeter defense hasn't gotten better either. It looks to me as if Theus has abandoned his zone defense (team defense) to help against the three but the problem with that is that these players are not good enough man on man defenders to play that way. The wings get driven against on a regular basis and our big men aren't strong enough to defend down low. This team needs to play team defense to win.

Love me or hate me here is the main culprit...Ron Artest. I don't mean to pick on the guy but he doesn't fit here, I'm telling you that just getting rid of him would make this team better, here's why problem by problem.

1. Offensive Inefficiency & Turnovers: Artest kills our floor spacing every time on offense. He's either filling the lane with defenders so Beno and Martin can't drive or he's on the perimeter standing right next to one of our other wings. How many times have you seen that? At least go to the other side, this causes immediate double teams and turnovers because two defenders are basically playing the ball. Artest does this because he needs to dominate the ball.

2. Lack of Transition Baskets: Again, I see this team is built to run and gun... except for one player. Artest is a slow player who loves to lead our breakouts down the floor. If you remember our fast breaks with Martin, Beno, and Salmons were always effective and they occurred a lot. You throw Artest in there and usually the fast break stops short as the defense catches up.

3. Defense, Defense, Defense: You would think that this would be where Artest shines, I don't know about you but have I have seen something missing from Artest's game this year. (Except for the two weeks he was auditioning to be traded). I've seen Artest get routinely beaten by his man all year long and his help defense is a joke. He certainly is not the only problem on defense but I'm not about to give him credit for what I've seen this year.

In summary, Artest is for the most part a very good player, a borderline all-star player. He just doesn't fit what we're trying to do here. When did Martin stop being aggressive, when did Salmons' confidence disappear, when did Beno stop producing, when did Brad Miller stop making his jump shot consistently? It was when Artest & Bibby came back, well Bibby is gone but one problem still remains. We were so close but yet so far from truly rebuilding this team.
 
Very nice analysis, Jerichoholic. And I'd add to that list our x-factor: Francisco Garcia. Anyone notice that when Cisco has a good game, we win. When he stinks, we lose?

He went for a combined 6 pts in the last two games, we lost both. He went 15 for 21 from beyond the arc in the last three games and we won all three. He missed three games before the all-star break and we lost all three.

Of course, we can't expect Cisco to light it up every game, but I think it highlights another weakness - the bench. We simply have no one who can give us a spark off the bench besides Garcia. Hawes is inconsistent (though getting better). Douby and AJ have given us little. Shelden is not getting consistent mins. And Salmons has turned into Orien Greene.

My prediction: if Garcia shoots 70% from three-pt land in the next game, we'll win.
 
Very nice analysis, Jerichoholic. And I'd add to that list our x-factor: Francisco Garcia. Anyone notice that when Cisco has a good game, we win. When he stinks, we lose?

He went for a combined 6 pts in the last two games, we lost both. He went 15 for 21 from beyond the arc in the last three games and we won all three. He missed three games before the all-star break and we lost all three.

Of course, we can't expect Cisco to light it up every game, but I think it highlights another weakness - the bench. We simply have no one who can give us a spark off the bench besides Garcia. Hawes is inconsistent (though getting better). Douby and AJ have given us little. Shelden is not getting consistent mins. And Salmons has turned into Orien Greene.

My prediction: if Garcia shoots 70% from three-pt land in the next game, we'll win.

You're absolutely right about Cisco and again the key to his success lies in floor spacing. When he was shooting 70% his threes were wide open, in the last two games he's had a defender in his face. In addition to the floor spacing the ball movement was slow allowing defenders more time to react.

The bench is an issue though, especially for the future. Spencer will replace Miller in a couple years and I have a feeling that Sheldon will either take over for Mikki or will be off this team, so neither of these guys will be bench players. Salmons will either stink off the bench or he will start so count him out too. Also, Douby is on his last legs here, he can't run the point at all and his defense is a liability. He could be effective coming off the bench purely as a SG but it's not looking good for him. This only leaves Cisco...that is a problem.
 
jericoholic:

looks like you put some thought and time into this post. so i wont completely litter on it. let me just say this....the feeling in this forum is known. we no longer just state the obvious. all we're doing is baffling on about how much this team is miserable to watch. you're not really saying anything we dont already know. and that may apply to alot of people here including myself. all we can do now is just express our opinions. i agree with some things in your post. some things we need to change. i wish the maloofs would read some of these posts
 
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The point of this thread is twofold, the first thing is to try to show people where I believe the problems are, some agree and some don't and either way is fine. I just want to point some things out that may be hard to see at first but if they know where to look then they can understand where I'm coming from. It's easy to say that this player is the problem because his stats are down but it's a much bigger picture than that. We can look at the box score and see that Artest has good games and bad games but I want people to look at the things that aren't obvious, watch him without the ball, watch where he stands, look at how this affects the other players.

The other reason is simply to vent in a constructive manner. I don't hate the Kings are any member of their roster or front office. I'm not going to boycott the rest of the season. I like watching the games, this just helps me get my feelings out there. There are reasons for the Kings failures and they are fixable...this brings hope.
 
well you dont, but i do. i cant stand kenny thomas. he's the lawnmower when im trying to sleep saturday morning. i cant remember who the person was but they said this team is filled with players that want to win the game themselves. trying to do too much. no one knows their role. its like a feast at a dinner table. every dish has its own taste and purpose. you cant have turkey without dressing. you cant have yams without marshmallows. its discusting by itself, but when you combine everything you have one hell of a dinner.
 
I think almost everyone will agree with your analysis. The problem is what do we as fans have to do until the wheels are put back on the Kings wagon and what should we be pounding on Coach, GM and owners to do in view that no trades can be made until July?

Problems are always much easier to view. Solutions are always much, much harder and we out here in KingsFans land are frustrated 'cause it seems there is nothing we can do. Hopefully, if we bang on KingsFan enough, Coach gets our point and starts getting more time to Hawes and Williams and maybe gives Salmons major minutes vs. Artest. If the on-court chemistry can smooth out, players will move without the ball more and give more chances to Beno, Brad and Hawes for assists to open up the floor.

And you are right about another item, no one else seems to step up when Kevin and/or RonRon has a bad night. Hawes did last night. Where are the others?? not getting the touches I suspect.

My big input, like Coach telling Hawes 2 moves and no more when near the basket, is no more than 3 seconds dribbling at any time. One of the greatest fast breaks I ever saw happened to be by the Kings in 2001: rebound and 3 quick passes for an easy layup!! The ball never touched the floor the entire way down to a quick and easy fast break 2. That was real basketball and exciting too. If the Kings want more touches, they need to move there butt to get a pass if coach enforces the 3 second dribble rule, especially for RonRon and Salmons.
 
I am not going into any major discussion of why I feel this way but I think the two guys hurting the Kings ar KT and Salmons. KT is obvious. Salmons is less obvious.

There is no logical reason to explain why Salmons can't play off the bench and because the drop off in production is so huge compared to the time when he started, I'm beginning to think the "off the bench Salmons" is more like the real Salmons than the "starter Salmons."

I certainly wouldn't trade Artest if the major reason for that is to let Salmons start. I think that kind of move is more risky than keeping Ron.

In any case, we don't have Batman, the stud leader. If that time ever comes and if Ron is still on the team, I cannot for the life of me imagine Artest being Robin. But then, I didn't think Melo and AI could co-exist either.
 
I guess the saddest thing is that the Webber-era will never be seen again. I have no doubt that we will once again be a very good team, maybe even a championship team, but that era was special. In terms of chemistry I've never seen a team flow so well on the court and also be such best friends off the court. They were a great group of guys that the fans could easily root for.

This is why I talk about chemistry, if you're going to win a championship you either need to have that "Batman" or you need a great team concept like that. This team unfortunately does not have a Batman, after all there are only like 5 of them in the league. So therefore we need to build a team that flows perfectly together and there are definitely some potholes on this road.
 
The problem is clearly Artest. Jacking up off-balance 3-pointers and never passes - he's gotta go. Despite his tenacity and hustle, he gets into these selfish modes on offense that take the team totally out of their rhythm.
 
I think it's too much to say that Artest never passes. He has had many games where he often sets up miller and stuff after drawing the double team. As for the 3s, the problem is that he actually does make them rather often.
 
I think it's too much to say that Artest never passes. He has had many games where he often sets up miller and stuff after drawing the double team. As for the 3s, the problem is that he actually does make them rather often.

And that's more of why it's so frustrating to have Ron Artest on your team. He CAN draw the double and kick out the pass, when he decides that's better than going one-on-five. And he makes just enough of those threes to keep him convinced he should be shooting them.
 
Hey gas prices went up again. If only we would have traded Ron Artest. We would all be paying 50 cents at the pump. Also because Ron puts in extra work after practice he generates more heat for longer periods of time. Hello Global Warming. Remember the time he did a cannonball in the ocean off the shore of Thiland and caused that Tsunami.
 
Hey gas prices went up again. If only we would have traded Ron Artest. We would all be paying 50 cents at the pump. Also because Ron puts in extra work after practice he generates more heat for longer periods of time. Hello Global Warming. Remember the time he did a cannonball in the ocean off the shore of Thiland and caused that Tsunami.

Is there a point in that somewhere?
 
No, but people are frustrated to no end with Artest and expressing it. That's kind of what message boards are for. You and Entity don't agree, which is fine, but you're not going to change our minds any more than we're going to change yours.

It's not like anything said on this board within our guidelines is going to actually influence what happens on the court.

I'm sorry that my opinion of Artest is apparently a source of irritation to you but that's the way it is. And I think I've made valid reasons to explain how I reached my opinion. You don't have to agree with them.
 
Don't mean to state the obvious, but Ron Artest is just one piece of the team, one player. 4 other starters & bench need to also be called out.
Turnovers & lack of defense falls on all the Kings men. Sorry fellas it's time to call an all players meeting & take a hard cold look in the mirror...

I really beleive the coaches have done their part, but they have to keep teaching & keep the troops on the same page.....As a fan I want to see the effort & a sense of urgency.
 
The question here isn't whether Artest is a good player or not, but does he fit on this team. If Hawes is the future center of this team, can he and Artest co-exist on the floor at the same time. Hawes is at his best in the low post, as is Williams, and as is Artest. There's only room for one person there if your going to space the floor properly. Hawes is capable of playing the high post, but if Williams turns out to be our PF of the future, he's basicly just a low post guy.

These are questions that the coaching staff and petrie are trying to answer before the end of the season. I wish them luck, because there are a lot of unknowns there.
I've stated before that Artest is a player that can make a difference on a team. He single handedly can change the outcome of a game. Unfortunally, not only can he win it for you, he can lose it for you. Like it or not, he's a real love, hate relationship guy. Reminds me of some of my marriages. Thank god I didn't have a trade deadline..
 
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