The Heaties...

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Kings113

All-Star
MIAMI · Among the reasons Heat President Pat Riley shopped for Antoine Walker, Jason Williams and James Posey in the offseason was to lighten the load on Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade.

Through the first three games of the preseason, the restructuring instead has come off as a burden.

"It takes time to get familiar with guys," Wade said of the confusion that has the Heat averaging 23 turnovers over its first three exhibitions. "I don't think any of us, maybe Shaq, have played with this many guys who can fill it up, that have got this much one-on-one ability. So it's taking time to learn the team.

"Last year we had a team that everybody had a role. If it wasn't me and Shaq scoring, everybody was spotting up, hitting the jumper. The main thing is it just takes time to learn each other, learn the system."

The view from the front office was that additional options were needed for the times the offense bogged down, such as against Detroit in the Eastern Conference finals.

But that also has Stan Van Gundy coaching more one-on-one talent than in the previous two years he led the team.

"We need some guys who make it work," Van Gundy said. "Sometimes you just need guys to catch the ball and move the ball and get out of the way and create spacing and things like that. I haven't seen a lot of that so far, of guys really willing to do that."

In adding Walker, Williams, Posey and Gary Payton, the hope was that others would step up when needed, not necessarily when each individually saw fit.

"That's why we go through preseason, for guys to get it in their heads, `You've got to trust other guys,' even though all of us feel we have the ability to take over the game," Wade said. "You can't win the game alone. It's the team that's got to do it. We've all got to understand that.

"We've still got [five] preseason games, and hopefully at the end of it we'll all understand what we have to do for the betterment of this ballclub."

Some of the adjustment could have to come from Wade, to allow for the diverse offense the Heat lacked last season.

"I'm sure when we need points, Coach will put the ball in my hands to make a play," the third-year shooting guard said. "I don't think that's going to change.

"Last year, a lot of plays were run for just me and Shaq. This year it's spread out a little bit. It's just a lot of getting used to."

Power forward Udonis Haslem said the essential factor is not overlooking O'Neal's low-post dominance.

"We have something that no one else in the league has. We have Shaquille O'Neal," he said. "We need to learn how to play around the big fella, move the ball and get it back to him."

Less than two weeks into training camp, Van Gundy already finds himself walking a fine line.

On one hand, he has to bring together a group of newcomers in a relatively short time. On the other, he is dealing with some of the largest egos in the game and can't set up the season as seven months of seething.

"[There are] certain areas that regardless of how long you've been together, we should be on point with," Walker said. "I think that's what Coach is frustrated with. We're too talented offensively to give ourselves 20 turnovers."

For now there is confusion.

"It's still preseason," Posey said. "We're still gathering information trying to make this thing work right now, still feeling each other out.

"We know each other, but we don't know each other on the court."
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heat17oct17,0,7411657.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat

Yeah, just pre-season, but it'll take longer for them. So when does this team start to gel? I'd say between December and January.
 
On the other, he is dealing with some of the largest egos in the game and can't set up the season as seven months of seething.
Click to expand...

And Miami just might not be big enough to contain the combined egos... You also have to figure that if things don't go well, if the new guys start complaining too much, that the biggest ego of all - Shaq's - is gonna really resent it. It might get very interesting in the East this year.

;)
 
It will work out and Heat will go for the champs, you just wait and see.
 
Yeah, I think it ultimately works out (not with some highly likely problems along the way though). I haven't read many say it won't. I don't know about definitely getting to the finals though, East is seriously more competitive than it's been since 1999-2001 or so.
 
TLW3 - Since you're a Heat fan, I think you might be experiencing a big dose of "wishing and hoping" right now...

Bottom line is there are a myriad of ways this could go badly. And it's not like the egos involved might all of a sudden decide to change and become sharing, caring, team-oriented players. These guys live for the "ME!" and unfortunately that hasn't worked out very well in the past.
 
I am a heat fan fan but every fan sets high expections. Like most of you serious kings fans (i am a king fan, btw) you ignore the fact that they will never win a championship with this team because of the horrible defense.
 
We don't ignore it. Perhaps you should read more than a couple days worth of threads and see that most of us have been preaching for a better defensive team, because we understand that offense doesn't win championships.

Anything else you would like to tell us about serious Kings fans?
 
Has this bad defense been addresed?

no, so if Petrie is really that good of a Gm than why can he build a champion caliber team with good d.


Plus, i dont think they are far from a good defensive team they just need a couple of changes such as a good defensive centre and move brad to 4 and maybe lose peja for a better allround player who can rebound and play D
 
Peja can play D. Not like Artest or AK-47 though, and I don't think they'll be available.

Horrible defense? The team hasn't even played a regular season game, I guess you're basing that on a bunch of periods from last season...
 
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TheLoneWarrior3 said:
Has this bad defense been addresed?

no, so if Petrie is really that good of a Gm than why can he build a champion caliber team with good d.


Plus, i dont think they are far from a good defensive team they just need a couple of changes such as a good defensive centre and move brad to 4 and maybe lose peja for a better allround player who can rebound and play D
Click to expand...

Has the "bad defense" been addressed?

What? The Kings are deficient on defense?

OMG - I must not have received the memo.

:rolleyes:
 
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Thanks VF. I was sitting here trying to decide how I should respond, but I think you did it eloquently enough for both of us. :)
 
Ah, so legit
laughing8wl.gif
 
I'd back off on the defensive criticisms if my starting five had J-Will and Antoine Walker. Riley had a team as close to the finals as you can get and blew it up. Don't attack us and don't insult our basketball IQ, any serious Kings Fan knows exactly what the problem is. I'm not saying it won't happen for the Heat, you reserve the right to have high hopes for your team. There are just as many reasons for the Heat to not win a title as there are for the Kings. Get over it and don't insult the members of this board.
 
that's just wrong...

maybe I was a little too strong, I just don't like getting insulted. Sorry if I offended you buddy...seriously.

What can I make you do? Make you get over the fact that you eastern conference finals and title contending team got a massive overhaul in a huge questionable trade and lost a free agent to cleveland? My own team got a bit of a change as well, and I am optimistic, maybe not as supremely confident as yourself but I have serious doubts about the Kings, we all do. But I can't keep you from insulting board members with ignorant comments about how little we know about the team most of us follow fanatically. Have you ever heard how loudly the ARCO crowd chants "Defense!" ? We know exacty what we need to succeed.

Anyway, the rest is up to the mods. But please...my mom? C'mon, she's a senior citizen! lol..eh.
 
Rockin' in the Free World said:
I'd back off on the defensive criticisms if my starting five had J-Will and Antoine Walker. Riley had a team as close to the finals as you can get and blew it up. Don't attack us and don't insult our basketball IQ, any serious Kings Fan knows exactly what the problem is. I'm not saying it won't happen for the Heat, you reserve the right to have high hopes for your team. There are just as many reasons for the Heat to not win a title as there are for the Kings. Get over it and don't insult the members of this board.
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J Will and Walker are going to set the Heat back about 3 years because their D is so bad.
 
I'd rather see Posey start at SF, better player overall (other than rebounds, and maybe some passing) and more fit for the position. Plus he's a favorite of mine :). Walker probably has the advantage because of his ego and rebounding though (he's already talked a few times about not being too fond of coming off the bench) :/.
 
That team just doesn't make sense to me. Williams, Shaq, and Walker (the short list) all require the ball in thier hands to be effective and Wade should probably be on that list as well. Shaq and Wade at least both play D. Those other guys are convinced that defense is the time to rest for when they get the ball again so they can jack it up from 35 feet away. When they do pull Shaq though it may be fun to see Williams and Wade running together. Another positive, it gives all the soap opera fans something else to watch.
 
POSEY~ likely to start at SF for Miami! (can't get full link because of sign-up to Herald):

"After four exhibition games, it sounds like Heat coach Stan Van Gundy is leaning toward keeping Antoine Walker as a sixth man. Walker playing a reserve role has been suggested and implied since the Heat acquired him in August, but Van Gundy spoke in depth about the idea for the first time Wednesday." Miami Herald

"Walker's projected role this season has been compared to that of Heat assistant coach and one-time league MVP Bob McAdoo, who came off the bench in the early 1980s for Pat Riley's Lakers. Van Gundy, who said he spoke with Walker about his role once and will again, said the team actually used McAdoo as an example earlier in training camp to show that making sacrifices can help a team." Miami Herald

''I think we would have to have him as a focal point [off the bench],'' Payton said of Walker. ``I don't think we want him as being a person who has to spot up and watch. But when he comes in the way he does now, if Shaq or somebody comes out, then he can be more aggressive and do the things he does. I think it's really beneficial for him, but he's got to get that in his mind, just like I've got to get that in my mind, that it's going to be a plus for us. We're going to be playing against a second unit that we've never really played against in our career that we might be able to exploit and do good things against. ``It is kind of hard for him. But I keep talking to him, and he'll be fine. Once he comes off the bench and he starts playing 30, 32 minutes, it doesn't make a difference anyway.'' Miami Herald
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http://www.insidehoops.com

Great to read, as I thought from the time the trade happened, Posey starting at SF is for the betterment of the team. I agree with Payton/Stan on Walker's role. I remember Walker saying he didn't like the idea of coming off the bench last month, he should just accept it now.
 
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"Small forward James Posey, a cornerstone of the Heat's revamped roster, likely will be sidelined for the start of the season. Injured late in Saturday's exhibition loss to Detroit when his right thumb snapped backward, Posey will wear a removable cast for two weeks. X-rays were taken Saturday night at the Palace of Auburn Hills, as was an MRI conducted Sunday after Posey returned to South Florida with trainer Ron Culp. Posey is being listed with a sprain." South Florida Sun-Sentinel

"Posey has struggled in the preseason, with Van Gundy working to get him on the move in the offense with a series of lane cuts." South Florida Sun-Sentinel

"Upset about being run through a series of baseline screens, guard Dwyane Wade hinted he would like to get back to last season's offense, when he controlled the ball in the halfcourt and played off Shaquille O'Neal's low-post game." South Florida Sun-Sentinel

"The person most affected by the roster moves in Miami appears, at least in the early stages, to be Dwyane Wade. He clearly looked like a man out of sync with the system Saturday. "It's all of us getting used to different roles and it's an adjustment," said Wade, who had 10 points on 4 for 11 shooting in 32 minutes. "It's way different. I am running more off pick and rolls and stuff this year than I've ever done. I am used to having the ball in my hands. It's an adjustment we all are going to have to make." Detroit News

Besides throwing the ball to Shaq [O'Neal], we've got to find other ways to score,'' coach Stan Van Gundy said. ``Right now in the preseason, we really haven't found any other ways to score points. That's my responsibility. I've got to find something else. ``I think this game just shows us how far we have to go with five practices and three exhibition games left.'' Miami Herald

"Part of the problem is Dwyane Wade adjusting to an altered role. With Jason Williams handling the ball often in the half court, Wade has been asked to play off the ball more often, and his 43.6 shooting percentage shows it hasn't worked well." Miami Herald
Click to expand...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heat24newoct24,0,1976765.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0510/24/D04-358498.htm

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/12982287.htm

That is displeasing to hear about Posey, the guy gets his starting spot, then gets injured :/. Shouldn't be too serious at least....I've seen he's been struggling on offense, but so are others. He shouldn't have too much of a problem fitting in though, he's there to play good d, hustle, and score some (similar to Eddie Jones, who he replaces quite well).

I still think this team is going to start to gel well by December, maybe January.
 
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