[NBA] The 2025 Finals

Who Ya Got?

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Tizzy Flip said:
What were they before Siakam got there? Well he took a 25 win team led by Sabonis and in his first full season improved that by 10, in spite of missing 26 games with an injury toward the end of the year when they were tracking toward a playoff spot. And they were 23-15 before they got Siakam. So come again?
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That to a finals team is pretty big jump. Ignoring the impact of that Siakam deal is ignoring quite a bit. Nobody is taking anything away from what Haliburton is able to do, or has done. The question was building around Luka or Haliburton, both are solid options but getting a player that can put up 30 a night while running your team certainly has it's advantages if you are starting from scratch.
 
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SacTownKid said:
That to a finals team is pretty big jump. Ignoring the impact of that Siakam deal is ignoring quite a bit. Nobody is taking anything away from what Haliburton is able to do, or has done. The question was building around Luka or Haliburton, both are solid options but getting a player that can put up 30 while running your team a night certainly has it's advantages if you are starting from scratch.
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and it also has it's disadvantages. A lead player who is looking to distribute the ball around to his team, as well as take open looks, is more difficult to scheme against. Magic Johnson was an example of this type of player, who elevated those around him and always looking for the highest % team play
 
SacTownKid said:
That to a finals team is pretty big jump. Ignoring the impact of that Siakam deal is ignoring quite a bit. Nobody is taking anything away from what Haliburton is able to do, or has done. The question was building around Luka or Haliburton, both are solid options but getting a player that can put up 30 a night while running your team certainly has it's advantages if you are starting from scratch.
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Who said I’m ignoring the impact that Siakam had. I was begging for us to get him. You were the one who said what were the Pacers before Siakam
 
The Pacers turned the ball over and played a little out of control at times. They will adjust to the excellent defense of the Thunder.
Both teams play defense. The rebounding is ferocious. The Pacers break on an inbound after a made basket.
Thunder have the best record, the MVP and are playing at home.
But the Pacers are relentless. They keep coming at you and are the best 3 point shooting team in the league.
Great series already. Watching Halliburton is amazing. I really like Nembhard and Nesmith.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Who would you rather build your team around as a lead player, Luka or Hali? That's how bad this is
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My answer right now would be Hali.

Luka can be targeted on defense repeatedly and offensively they are similar with Luka being more ball dominant which I don’t consider a good thing.
 
sactowndog said:
Yes, why I post less and less frequently and spend less and less time thinking about a team that makes one bad decision after another.
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How does he expect you to feel watching Hali/Siakam in the finals when both are supposed to be in Sacramento. But hey we got Sabonis
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
How does he expect you to feel watching Hali/Siakam in the finals when both are supposed to be in Sacramento. But hey we got Sabonis
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You left off Nesmith too.

It’s just hard to comprehend how many paths to being good we had and how many times this team made the wrong choice to get us to our current state.
 
Well that was some Real Hero Sh*t from Haliburton. Quite an impressive win for the Pacers! They're a really good example of what can happen in the NBA if just a little luck breaks your way. Some injuries to key players on opposing squads two post-seasons running, and now the Pacers have enough playoff experience and enough playoff victories to believe they're a strong enough force to topple a Western Conference behemoth like Oklahoma City. That belief is everything. I still think it's likelier than not that the Thunder wake up and absolutely spitroast the Pacers, but last night's game was proof enough that they certainly can't take them for granted as an opponent.
 
sactowndog said:
How about trading Hali, also a generational talent, because you had Fox?
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I don't think you get my point, but I am going to try explaining it to you one last time (which I shouldn't, because I honestly feel like giving up with all of you folks)...At the time of the draft, Luka was being talked about as being a generational talent. When he was with the Kings, NO ONE was talking about Tyrese being a generational talent. No one except that one group of Kings fans who saw him as the talented basketball player that he is today (and to you all, I commend you). Hali is becoming a generational talent before our very own eyes, but you can't tell me with 100% certainty that, on February 8, 2022, Tyrese Haliburton would be leading his team to the NBA Finals in 2025. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that Tyrese Haliburton would be as good of a basketball player as he currently is. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that the Indiana Pacers would have a brighter future with Tyrese Haliburton than the Kings would with De'Aaron Fox. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that the one individual we chose to keep over Tyrese would've forced his way out of Sacramento three years later.

All of those things are happening as we speak because of how both teams continued to manage their respective roster post-trade. Indiana did well. We have not.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I don't think you get my point, but I am going to try explaining it to you one last time (which I shouldn't, because I honestly feel like giving up with all of you folks)...At the time of the draft, Luka was being talked about as being a generational talent. When he was with the Kings, NO ONE was talking about Tyrese being a generational talent. No one except that one group of Kings fans who saw him as the talented basketball player that he is today (and to you all, I commend you). Hali is becoming a generational talent before our very own eyes, but you can't tell me with 100% certainty that, on February 8, 2022, Tyrese Haliburton would be leading his team to the NBA Finals in 2025. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that Tyrese Haliburton would be as good of a basketball player as he currently is. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that the Indiana Pacers would have a brighter future with Tyrese Haliburton than the Kings would with De'Aaron Fox. Nor could you have told me with 100% certainty that the one individual we chose to keep over Tyrese would've forced his way out of Sacramento three years later.

All of those things are happening as we speak because of how both teams continued to manage their respective roster post-trade. Indiana did well. We have not.
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Some of what you say is true. We had some potential paths post Hali. But I would argue after two years in the NBA people had a pretty good idea of Hali’s path.

Why do I say this?

Because my guy in the NBA felt at the time the Kings did not get nearly enough for Hali and if teams knew the Kings were offering him versus Fox they would have offered more. I didn’t agree at the time but given 3-4 years he has been proven correct. If he knew so did other NBA executives.

I would argue Hali and Luka are about even currently and Luka @ draft time and Hali post 2 years were about equally known.
 
sactowndog said:
Some of what you say is true. We had some potential paths post Hali. But I would argue after two years in the NBA people had a pretty good idea of Hali’s path.

Why do I say this?

Because my guy in the NBA felt at the time the Kings did not get nearly enough for Hali and if teams knew the Kings were offering him versus Fox they would have offered more. I didn’t agree at the time but given 3-4 years he has been proven correct. If he knew so did other NBA executives.

I would argue Hali and Luka are about even currently and Luka @ draft time and Hali post 2 years were about equally known.
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Lot of people on this board saw Hali’s trajectory. Just scan through the first 10 pages of this thread to see how a lot of ppl here felt. It’s heartbreaking and hilarious at the same time

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...buddy-for-sabonis-and-holiday-and-lamb.83999/
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Wow...a 4-game sample size told you everything that you needed to know???
Dude...why the heck are you on a random message board, and not owning/running a basketball team??? You seem to have all of the answers...
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Aren’t you on here throwing out ideas too you knew Luka would be all world before he stepped on an nba court why don’t you have a job three teams passed on him but you knew, comical.

Everyone that’s made a trade proposal or has an opinion on here needs to delete there account and go apply for a front office job since we have all the answers
 
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Joshyjosh31 said:
Aren’t you on here throwing out ideas too you knew Luka would be all world before he stepped on an nba court why don’t you have a job three teams passed on him but you knew, comical.
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I was not the only one who knew...Many people at the time considered Luka to be a "generational talent" that would change the trajectory of the team that drafted him. But, ok, if you want to be delusional and come after me because I don't care two hoots about any of your ridiculous claims (your love fest for Zion being the most ridiculous of them all), then, by all means, go for it. Just understand that I will never change my stance, and there's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise (even if your delusional little self believes you can).

I can't speak for the other two teams that passed on Luka. But I will always have an issue with that third one passing up on him. Because if that team hadn't, things most likely would've been a helluva lot better around here.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I was not the only one who knew...Many people at the time considered Luka to be a "generational talent" that would change the trajectory of the team that drafted him. But, ok, if you want to be delusional and come after me because I don't care two hoots about any of your ridiculous claims (your love fest for Zion being the most ridiculous of them all), then, by all means, go for it. Just understand that I will never change my stance, and there's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise (even if your delusional little self believes you can).

I can't speak for the other two teams that passed on Luka. But I will always have an issue with that third one passing up on him. Because if that team hadn't, things most likely would've been a helluva lot better around here.
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I wasn’t coming after to you you’re the one basically saying get an nba job to me for having an opinion. Even in this response “little self” I don’t understand the reason to be disrespectful


My love affair with Zion has been explained I wouldn’t even want him if we would just tank and rebuild. I’ve said it before I’d rather pray Zion hits and either lose while doing it or he stays healthy and we have a cornerstone over playing for the 10th seed every year
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
I wasn’t coming after to you you’re the one basically saying get an nba job to me for having an opinion. Even in this response “little self” I don’t understand the reason to be disrespectful


My love affair with Zion has been explained I wouldn’t even want him if we would just tank and rebuild. I’ve said it before I’d rather pray Zion hits and either lose while doing it or he stays healthy and we have a cornerstone over playing for the 10th seed every year
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And I've also made it known that I feel that we should tank and rebuild, which is why I don't want him...:):):)
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Pretty much!
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You probably already explained this but why are you against Zion if you want to tank? If he’s hurt we’re in the same position we’re in now.. do you just not think a healthy Zion is an elite player?

Especially if we can get him for Derozan and Jonas we’d be giving up no assets high risk high reward is the only way we’re getting out of the 10th seed
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
You probably already explained this but why are you against Zion if you want to tank? If he’s hurt we’re in the same position we’re in now.. do you just not think a healthy Zion is an elite player?

Especially if we can get him for Derozan and Jonas we’d be giving up no assets high risk high reward is the only way we’re getting out of the 10th seed
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It's not that I don't think a healthy Zion is not an elite player, which I do agree he is.
It's more so that I just don't see Zion being healthy long enough to be able to make any sort of an impact that moves the needle in the direction I would like for it to move in. And I'd much rather throw the $ at someone who would be healthy long enough to be able to move the needle.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
and it also has it's disadvantages. A lead player who is looking to distribute the ball around to his team, as well as take open looks, is more difficult to scheme against. Magic Johnson was an example of this type of player, who elevated those around him and always looking for the highest % team play
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Yeah, but even Magic wasn't starting on a team from scratch. They had Kareem.
 
Tizzy Flip said:
Who said I’m ignoring the impact that Siakam had. I was begging for us to get him. You were the one who said what were the Pacers before Siakam
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Then what's the argument? They weren't finals level team. Clearly. They picked up a player that was able to be their ECF MVP that fit seamlessly into their gameplan.
 
SacTownKid said:
Then what's the argument? They weren't finals level team. Clearly. They picked up a player that was able to be their ECF MVP that fit seamlessly into their gameplan.
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You’re dismissing what Hali did before Siakam came, clearly. Obviously Siakam is a big time player. But it’s like saying Denver was nothing before Aaron Gordon came on board cuz they didn’t make the finals until he arrived
 
Tizzy Flip said:
You’re dismissing what Hali did before Siakam came, clearly. Obviously Siakam is a big time player. But it’s like saying Denver was nothing before Aaron Gordon came on board cuz they didn’t make the finals until he arrived
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No I'm not, if you think arguing the positives of Hali compared to Luka is dismissive in any way then clearly you have a preset view of Haliburton so there's no reason to even discuss this. You saw a post discussing the value of "leadership" and saw the name Rondo, the problem was it wasn't comparing Haliburton to Rondo as a talent or player. And this isn't some comparison between a role player and Haliburton in this hypothetical. Denver has a 3 time time MVP on their roster. Not saying Haliburton maybe doesn't win one at some point, but it's not necessarily equal at this point either.
 
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