Chubbs
Starter
I'm not saying we are throwing games. But exactly what you said.
Tanking or rebuilding?
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I know.
Chubbs
Starter
We are working on different definitions of the word.
ilmago
Prospect
Hi guys!
We need absolutely to tank. Assuming Bucks, 76ers and (most probably) Magic will finish at the bottom, we need to "fight" for the worst place to reach a possible top3 pick next draft.
We have to start from this "est-trip" (@Tor, @Nets, @Det, @Phila in b2b, @Bulls with at most a 1-4 W/L score) and then @Minnie hopin' for a L. We "have to do this" 'cause the others team are dramatically tanking.
Boston (20-41) got a not irresistible rest of schedule (They have only 3 prohibited game against Pacers, Dallas in b2b and Miami) but at the sime time they'll faces a lot of team in competitions for the best Est PO's position, so they really risk to end season under 27/28L.
On the West we got the Fakers and the Jazz with the same record (21-40).
Both teams have a middle-hard schedule (maybe the Fakers' one is harder then the Jazz's).
Fakers: Clips (2x), Okc(2x), Spurs (3x), and Portland. Almost certainly all L. Fakers have only 2 easy games vs Magic and @Bucks. The 11 remaining games are:
- 7 @Staples Center (Wash, Knicks, Suns, Dallas, Houston, Warriors and Memphis, so i hope thath Fakers could win at least 3 of these)
-4 road (Denver in b2b, Minni, Kings and Utah)
Jazz's schedule:
-hard games (Clips. @Spurs, @Hou b2b, @Okc, @Warriors and vs Portland)
-easy g. (@Phila but in b2b..., Magic and Detroit)
Remaining games are 7/12 @home.
What do you think about? Will they end before us?
We also take a look at NOLA that have a 1-5 protected pick next draft, right?
Cheers from Italy
We need absolutely to tank. Assuming Bucks, 76ers and (most probably) Magic will finish at the bottom, we need to "fight" for the worst place to reach a possible top3 pick next draft.
We have to start from this "est-trip" (@Tor, @Nets, @Det, @Phila in b2b, @Bulls with at most a 1-4 W/L score) and then @Minnie hopin' for a L. We "have to do this" 'cause the others team are dramatically tanking.
Boston (20-41) got a not irresistible rest of schedule (They have only 3 prohibited game against Pacers, Dallas in b2b and Miami) but at the sime time they'll faces a lot of team in competitions for the best Est PO's position, so they really risk to end season under 27/28L.
On the West we got the Fakers and the Jazz with the same record (21-40).
Both teams have a middle-hard schedule (maybe the Fakers' one is harder then the Jazz's).
Fakers: Clips (2x), Okc(2x), Spurs (3x), and Portland. Almost certainly all L. Fakers have only 2 easy games vs Magic and @Bucks. The 11 remaining games are:
- 7 @Staples Center (Wash, Knicks, Suns, Dallas, Houston, Warriors and Memphis, so i hope thath Fakers could win at least 3 of these)
-4 road (Denver in b2b, Minni, Kings and Utah)
Jazz's schedule:
-hard games (Clips. @Spurs, @Hou b2b, @Okc, @Warriors and vs Portland)
-easy g. (@Phila but in b2b..., Magic and Detroit)
Remaining games are 7/12 @home.
What do you think about? Will they end before us?
We also take a look at NOLA that have a 1-5 protected pick next draft, right?
Cheers from Italy
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Hi guys!
We need absolutely to tank. Assuming Bucks, 76ers and (most probably) Magic will finish at the bottom, we need to "fight" for the worst place to reach a possible top3 pick next draft.
We have to start from this "est-trip" (@Tor, @Nets, @Det, @Phila in b2b, @Bulls with at most a 1-4 W/L score) and then @Minnie hopin' for a L. We "have to do this" 'cause the others team are dramatically tanking.
Boston (20-41) got a not irresistible rest of schedule (They have only 3 prohibited game against Pacers, Dallas in b2b and Miami) but at the sime time they'll faces a lot of team in competitions for the best Est PO's position, so they really risk to end season under 27/28L.
On the West we got the Fakers and the Jazz with the same record (21-40).
Both teams have a middle-hard schedule (maybe the Fakers' one is harder then the Jazz's).
Fakers: Clips (2x), Okc(2x), Spurs (3x), and Portland. Almost certainly all L. Fakers have only 2 easy games vs Magic and @Bucks. The 11 remaining games are:
- 7 @Staples Center (Wash, Knicks, Suns, Dallas, Houston, Warriors and Memphis, so i hope thath Fakers could win at least 3 of these)
-4 road (Denver in b2b, Minni, Kings and Utah)
Jazz's schedule:
-hard games (Clips. @Spurs, @Hou b2b, @Okc, @Warriors and vs Portland)
-easy g. (@Phila but in b2b..., Magic and Detroit)
Remaining games are 7/12 @home.
What do you think about? Will they end before us?
We also take a look at NOLA that have a 1-5 protected pick next draft, right?
Cheers from Italy
Be prepared for heavy criticism.
ilmago
Prospect
Be prepared for heavy criticism.
ahahhah ye, i hate to admit that we have to tank, but this is the story. unfortunately.
I can't agree that the Thornton trade and buying out Jimmer were tanking moves. For that to be the case those two players would have had to previously been contributing to wins. They weren't.
Most nights there has been little to no contribution from the SG position save for Thornton having pretty infrequent big scoring games. Two of those I'd say DID help the team win. But the vast majority of the time he and McLemore were the weakest point of the lineup and hurt more than helped. I'm guessing the logic of the Thornton deal was that (1) MT had no long term future with the team (2) the contracts taken back also end next season and are likely a bit easier to move because they are smaller and (3) bringing in vets like Terry and Evans could help with changing the locker room culture. Whether Thornton represented a negative attitude or whether PDA knew Terry wouldn't suit up for the Kings this season I don't know. But the point is that the trade wasn't a clear talent bleed made to increase the team's odds of losing night to night.
Ditto with Jimmer who had shown some growth but was clearly not in the team's long term plans and was seeing little floor time anyway. The Fredette buyout to me looked like nothing other than the Kings doing Jimmer a solid and letting him latch on to another team that wanted him and possibly get a better audition going into free agency.
And the odds of this team ending as one of the bottom 3 or 4 teams in the league record wise are slim to none. They simply have more talent than the Orlandos, Milwaukees and the Lakers of the world. Not to mention the Sixers who ARE tanking hard and fielding one of the least talented teams I've ever seen. For all intents and purposes they gave away our old friend Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner to ensure more losses.
If the Kings were looking to tank instead of retooling on the fly I think they would have dealt DMC as part of that. Hard to tell a guy you're building around him and then in the next breath say that he'll have to suffer through a complete waste of a season and then hope for better days when a prized rookie comes along next season. As a rookie MCW has no choice but to live through the tanking that Hinkie is doing. But do you think DMC would have signed an extension if knew D'Alessandro was blowing up the team in an attempt to lose every night?
I'm not all that concerned with the Kings not being a bottom 3 team. I'm not convinced Parker, Wiggins or Embiid are can't miss stars (though I like them all) and I've never watched Exum play. Besides they could still get lucky with the ping pong balls. So I'm not going to worry if my team wins "too much" down the stretch. What I AM going to worry about is PDA's drafting acumen and whether he'll have the ability to nab the best talent on the board whenever it is that the Kings pick.
Right now I have to say I don't have the greatest confidence in his talent evaluation.
Most nights there has been little to no contribution from the SG position save for Thornton having pretty infrequent big scoring games. Two of those I'd say DID help the team win. But the vast majority of the time he and McLemore were the weakest point of the lineup and hurt more than helped. I'm guessing the logic of the Thornton deal was that (1) MT had no long term future with the team (2) the contracts taken back also end next season and are likely a bit easier to move because they are smaller and (3) bringing in vets like Terry and Evans could help with changing the locker room culture. Whether Thornton represented a negative attitude or whether PDA knew Terry wouldn't suit up for the Kings this season I don't know. But the point is that the trade wasn't a clear talent bleed made to increase the team's odds of losing night to night.
Ditto with Jimmer who had shown some growth but was clearly not in the team's long term plans and was seeing little floor time anyway. The Fredette buyout to me looked like nothing other than the Kings doing Jimmer a solid and letting him latch on to another team that wanted him and possibly get a better audition going into free agency.
And the odds of this team ending as one of the bottom 3 or 4 teams in the league record wise are slim to none. They simply have more talent than the Orlandos, Milwaukees and the Lakers of the world. Not to mention the Sixers who ARE tanking hard and fielding one of the least talented teams I've ever seen. For all intents and purposes they gave away our old friend Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner to ensure more losses.
If the Kings were looking to tank instead of retooling on the fly I think they would have dealt DMC as part of that. Hard to tell a guy you're building around him and then in the next breath say that he'll have to suffer through a complete waste of a season and then hope for better days when a prized rookie comes along next season. As a rookie MCW has no choice but to live through the tanking that Hinkie is doing. But do you think DMC would have signed an extension if knew D'Alessandro was blowing up the team in an attempt to lose every night?
I'm not all that concerned with the Kings not being a bottom 3 team. I'm not convinced Parker, Wiggins or Embiid are can't miss stars (though I like them all) and I've never watched Exum play. Besides they could still get lucky with the ping pong balls. So I'm not going to worry if my team wins "too much" down the stretch. What I AM going to worry about is PDA's drafting acumen and whether he'll have the ability to nab the best talent on the board whenever it is that the Kings pick.
Right now I have to say I don't have the greatest confidence in his talent evaluation.
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Chubbs
Starter
Fair enough about MT and Jimmer. I do think you can argue they would add 1-2 wins (like Jimmer in New York, although we probably win anyway). Is that enough to justify those moves as "tanking" moves? Perhaps not. It still felt like a talent bleed though. Less so with Ray Mac looking better than either MT or Jimmer ever did. And certainly better than Ben.
It's just hard to make sense of what is happening on the whole with the kings.
Philly is without question tanking. They took it too far. It's a joke. There's gotta be a fine or something. As Bill Simmons said, they may have two NBA regulars on that whole team and then a whole lot of nothing.
I'm not sold on this draft either. There's just no can't miss superstar. Could some of them become that? Absolutely. I'm not seeing that 100% sure thing though. No shaq, Duncan, AI, etc. It's a real stretch to say Embiid is at at the level those guys were on day 1. He could get there. He also could flop. It's tough to get a good feel for 18-19 year olds. Exum might be the best guy in the draft. I don't know that though. I don't think anyone does.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Whether it's Cousins, McLemore, or McCallum, you need a season to see if there is any progress.
We were all excited about Cousins at the beginning of the season. He seemed to have turned a corner. He got a new owner, a fat contract, and all the courting of royalty. Then after over half a season - wham - he tanks. So why should we be believers after three games? (The Napier comments about Cousins over these past three games notwithstanding). Three games aren't going to do it. THIRTY games aren't going to do it. He needs at least a full season. Heck, it's a longshot he's going to the All Star game next year because of what he did this year. He just got more demerits he has to work off. So what is his reaction going to be next season if there is another All Star snub? If you don't know by now that with Cousins you are climbing over a fence with a cactus garden below you just haven't been paying attention.
With McLemore you can see the possibilities, but you can't take out a mortgage on him ever being a strong two-guard. There are things he is not seeing on the floor; there are improper decisions he is making; his shots are inconsistent; his defense inconsistent. Not everybody gets it eventually. Maybe yes. Maybe no. At the end of next year we may at least have an idea of the direction of the trendline.
McCallum has played very few games. Mediocre teams against mediocre backups for the most part. He's played two positions, the 2-guard and the 1. There is not nearly the number of data points necessary to make a conclusion about his eventual role on this team, much less even entertaining the idea of him as a future starter. He's barely gotten out of D-League and off of the bench. Let's see him play against every team in the league in meaningful minutes before determining his future role.
I don't believe management can honestly count on anything with the three above. They still don't really know what they have. It's going to take probably until the end of next year to really know.
We were all excited about Cousins at the beginning of the season. He seemed to have turned a corner. He got a new owner, a fat contract, and all the courting of royalty. Then after over half a season - wham - he tanks. So why should we be believers after three games? (The Napier comments about Cousins over these past three games notwithstanding). Three games aren't going to do it. THIRTY games aren't going to do it. He needs at least a full season. Heck, it's a longshot he's going to the All Star game next year because of what he did this year. He just got more demerits he has to work off. So what is his reaction going to be next season if there is another All Star snub? If you don't know by now that with Cousins you are climbing over a fence with a cactus garden below you just haven't been paying attention.
With McLemore you can see the possibilities, but you can't take out a mortgage on him ever being a strong two-guard. There are things he is not seeing on the floor; there are improper decisions he is making; his shots are inconsistent; his defense inconsistent. Not everybody gets it eventually. Maybe yes. Maybe no. At the end of next year we may at least have an idea of the direction of the trendline.
McCallum has played very few games. Mediocre teams against mediocre backups for the most part. He's played two positions, the 2-guard and the 1. There is not nearly the number of data points necessary to make a conclusion about his eventual role on this team, much less even entertaining the idea of him as a future starter. He's barely gotten out of D-League and off of the bench. Let's see him play against every team in the league in meaningful minutes before determining his future role.
I don't believe management can honestly count on anything with the three above. They still don't really know what they have. It's going to take probably until the end of next year to really know.
FaStRmAn
Starter
Hi guys!
We need absolutely to tank. Assuming Bucks, 76ers and (most probably) Magic will finish at the bottom, we need to "fight" for the worst place to reach a possible top3 pick next draft.
We have to start from this "est-trip" (@Tor, @Nets, @Det, @Phila in b2b, @Bulls with at most a 1-4 W/L score) and then @Minnie hopin' for a L. We "have to do this" 'cause the others team are dramatically tanking.
Boston (20-41) got a not irresistible rest of schedule (They have only 3 prohibited game against Pacers, Dallas in b2b and Miami) but at the sime time they'll faces a lot of team in competitions for the best Est PO's position, so they really risk to end season under 27/28L.
On the West we got the Fakers and the Jazz with the same record (21-40).
Both teams have a middle-hard schedule (maybe the Fakers' one is harder then the Jazz's).
Fakers: Clips (2x), Okc(2x), Spurs (3x), and Portland. Almost certainly all L. Fakers have only 2 easy games vs Magic and @Bucks. The 11 remaining games are:
- 7 @Staples Center (Wash, Knicks, Suns, Dallas, Houston, Warriors and Memphis, so i hope thath Fakers could win at least 3 of these)
-4 road (Denver in b2b, Minni, Kings and Utah)
Jazz's schedule:
-hard games (Clips. @Spurs, @Hou b2b, @Okc, @Warriors and vs Portland)
-easy g. (@Phila but in b2b..., Magic and Detroit)
Remaining games are 7/12 @home.
What do you think about? Will they end before us?
We also take a look at NOLA that have a 1-5 protected pick next draft, right?
Cheers from Italy
Not going to happen. Problem is Players don't care about draft picks at all (other than if it is a drafted player in THEIR position). And coaches are already on the edge of getting fired from game to game. Win/Loss is the only thing that matters. No way coaches coach to lose. Now the front office might insist that certain players get more playing time so that the GM can see what they got at the end of a season that isn't gonna end up in the playoffs. If you want to call that "tanking", then by all means knock yourself out.
But I think the idea that professional players and coaches are conspiring with the GM to throw games for better draft position is threadbare at best. Players could care less and as bad as the Lottery is F*(#ed up, there are no fer sures there either. No it is just that time of year where the young players get more time on the court to see what they have to contribute to the team moving forward.
Padrino
All-Star
i call bulls*** on this argument. you just love trying to paint cuz into a corner, when, in reality, his downs after the all-star break have been no lower than they've been elsewhere this season. he's had a few rough games with inconsistent effort since "the snub," but it hardly constitutes the trend of "tanking" that you seem to think it does. in his last 10 games, demarcus is averaging 20 ppg (49% shooting), 11 rpg, and 2 apg, stats that nearly match his season averages. in those games, the kings went a respectable 5-5...
now, is cousins playing the absolute best ball of his career right now? certainly not. he's had nights where his defense, in particular, has not been up to the standard of improvement he set earlier in the season. but really, you're reaching for something that just isn't there. in fact, since the calendar turned over to 2014, there's a much stronger statistical trend of isaiah thomas' selfish play than there is of demarcus cousins dogging it. while cousins remains a volatile presence on the court, he's made considerable strides, accompanied by the occasional backslide. no need to be so melodramatic...
Chubbs
Starter
I don't even know what to say.
Cousins could dominate for 78 of 82 games, and you'd be focused on the 4 he didn't. The premise of Cousins "tanking" is as false as you can get, or that it has to do with the all star game snub. That's speculation based on a quote from Malone that may not even have been about Cousins. If not being allowed to ever have an off night or ever commit a T is what you require, then good luck to you. That will not ever happen. Cousins is not a question mark at this point. They committed. It's done. Any bumps in the road are part of the deal. I mean, the premise is actually whether or not Cousins made progress this year? I mean, really? They can count on 22 and 11 every night from Cousins. Last I checked, that's pretty good. And that's not his ceiling. It's much higher I believe. And the goal here is winning, not getting Cousins on an all star team. If winning happens, the rest will follow. His numbers have barely budged. he's pretty much right as he's always been.
You're the troll of all trolls Kingster.
Obviously we don't know what we have with the rookies. Is anyone claiming otherwise?
But we absolutely know what Cousins is. That's why we signed him for the next 4 years.
Since all 3 of these guys are under contract, there's actually nothing to decide at all right now. They'll be here in some role. All of them.
The discussion should be about players NOT under contract. That's where decisions need to made, specifically in regards to Isaiah.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I wonder if Cuz has taken himself out of beast mode whether on his own or in consultation with Malone. Perhaps everyone wants to see how the team functions without centering (pun intended) around Cuz. Now we have Gay which changes the team dynamic. Ray seems to be coming into his own which actually doesn't surprise me. Evans has become an offensive beast by channeling his inner Boogie.
With a dialed back Cuz, you get less problems but also less points and rebounds from him. On the other hand, maybe the team will do just as well. Not sure.
Kind of hard to say that management doesn't know what they have in DeMarcus Cousins. What they have is quite obviously an enormously talented offensive center who is an elite rebounder, a mediocre/average defender who has shown improvement and a volatile personality who leads the league in technicals.
I'm not sure how he could be put in the same category as rookies like Ray and Ben when DMC is in his fourth year and has shown steady improvement and evidence that he can reach his massive potential in time. Ray has just started getting meaningful minutes and McLemore hasn't proved he's even an NBA caliber player.
Meanwhile, Cousins at age 23 is putting up:
22.3 ppg on 48.3% shooting, 11.6 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.5 spg and 1.2 bpg.
At the same age (his 3rd season vs DMCs' fourth) Tim Duncan put up:
23.2 ppg on 49.0% shooting, 12.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.9 spg and 2.2 bpg
What's really amazing is that DeMarcus is puting up those numbers in 6.6 FEWER minutes per game. Per 36 Cousins scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and dishes more assists than Duncan at the same age.
Obviously he isn't in the same league as Timmy as a defender and the reason he plays fewer minutes is due to foul trouble (4.3 fouls per game per 36 vs Duncan at an incredible 2.6) but even just the offensive stats paint a pretty clear picture. DeMarcus is a very good player.
The argument could be that he puts up numbers on a bad team but my personal opinion is that DMC would greatly benefit from better teammates. Consistent shooters to draw double teams, a rim protector to reduce his fouls, guards who are willing and able to deliver good post entry passes. DMC isn't Evan Turner or the Toronto version of Rudy Gay - simply putting up big numbers due to unjustified usage rates and lack of other options. At least that's not what I see watching him.
And speaking of Gay - do people realize he's having a career year in terms of shooting percentage, PER and pretty much every other measure of offensive efficiency?
For that matter IT has shown himself to be an elite scorer. If he really could be moved to a 6th man role I think he could be a Ginobili level contributor to this team. No, the Kings aren't tanking, but quite honestly they don't have to. If PDA really is capable of building a good team then he has enough to work with here between this year's lottery pick and enough ending contracts to make another big deal. Ray and Ben panning out would just be gravy.
Hopefully we don't have a thread like this next year because the team has a clear direction.
I'm not sure how he could be put in the same category as rookies like Ray and Ben when DMC is in his fourth year and has shown steady improvement and evidence that he can reach his massive potential in time. Ray has just started getting meaningful minutes and McLemore hasn't proved he's even an NBA caliber player.
Meanwhile, Cousins at age 23 is putting up:
22.3 ppg on 48.3% shooting, 11.6 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.5 spg and 1.2 bpg.
At the same age (his 3rd season vs DMCs' fourth) Tim Duncan put up:
23.2 ppg on 49.0% shooting, 12.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.9 spg and 2.2 bpg
What's really amazing is that DeMarcus is puting up those numbers in 6.6 FEWER minutes per game. Per 36 Cousins scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and dishes more assists than Duncan at the same age.
Obviously he isn't in the same league as Timmy as a defender and the reason he plays fewer minutes is due to foul trouble (4.3 fouls per game per 36 vs Duncan at an incredible 2.6) but even just the offensive stats paint a pretty clear picture. DeMarcus is a very good player.
The argument could be that he puts up numbers on a bad team but my personal opinion is that DMC would greatly benefit from better teammates. Consistent shooters to draw double teams, a rim protector to reduce his fouls, guards who are willing and able to deliver good post entry passes. DMC isn't Evan Turner or the Toronto version of Rudy Gay - simply putting up big numbers due to unjustified usage rates and lack of other options. At least that's not what I see watching him.
And speaking of Gay - do people realize he's having a career year in terms of shooting percentage, PER and pretty much every other measure of offensive efficiency?
For that matter IT has shown himself to be an elite scorer. If he really could be moved to a 6th man role I think he could be a Ginobili level contributor to this team. No, the Kings aren't tanking, but quite honestly they don't have to. If PDA really is capable of building a good team then he has enough to work with here between this year's lottery pick and enough ending contracts to make another big deal. Ray and Ben panning out would just be gravy.
Hopefully we don't have a thread like this next year because the team has a clear direction.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Can people reassure me that we won't lose the draft pick? I don't care how late we pick as long as we pick. If we pick 10th, it means the team is playing very well and at this point, that counts for a lot. It ups the odds we have a happy Boogie and Gay and we need to worry about their attitudes towards being a King more than what position we draft at. We don't need a star. We have two stars and some would say that we have three. We need to fill some defensive gaps or perhaps simply stockpile another skilled body as we seem to be doing with PFs.
Be reassured. We only lose the pick if it falls at #13 or #14 (or if we make the pla...sorry, can't keep a straight face). Currently Minnesota sits at the #13 spot at .500 (30-30). We have 21 games left. If by some miracle we start winning two games out of three, we finish with 36 wins. Minnesota would then have to go 7-15 (or worse) down the stretch for us to possibly land at #13.
So don't worry about that.
Now, it would be possible if we went on a hot streak for us to finish at #12. If so, there would be a 4% chance of a team behind us sneaking up to the top-3 and costing us our pick. If we finish at #11, the chance of two teams jumping us is about 1 in 1000. If we finish at #10...fuhgeddaboutit. And if we finish at #9 or lower, it's ours by rule. Currently we are in the #8 position, but our road is pretty rough. 14 of our last 21 games are against teams at or over .500 as of right now, and 8 of those are on the road. We'll probably stay just about where we are.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
So we still could lose it, huh?
Seriously though, I think this team could win at a fairly high rate although winning about 2/3rds sounds like a bit much. If we lose it, it means we have a damn fine team and just need a new year, a pre-season, and a reshuffling of a few players. It's not the worst thing in the world.
Hey, I am even beginning to like IT and THAT is remarkable. I didn't think he was coachable but obviously he is.
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HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
If we were tanking this season, we did a pretty bad job, because we are probably going to end up with like the 6th-10th worst record in the league
we are currently ahead of: MIL,PHI,ORL,BOS, NYK, UTAH, LAL.
and we are only 2 games behind NO and DET and only 1.5 games behind CLE
we are currently ahead of: MIL,PHI,ORL,BOS, NYK, UTAH, LAL.
and we are only 2 games behind NO and DET and only 1.5 games behind CLE
Padrino
All-Star
indeed. that demarcus cousins is still able to flourish offensively alongside two other 20 ppg scorers should alleviate the "good numbers on a bad team" concerns. defense remains the kings' biggest problem area, and demarcus is adequate enough as an individual defender to thrive on a winning team, given some defensive talent to play alongside...
Padrino
All-Star
I wonder if Cuz has taken himself out of beast mode whether on his own or in consultation with Malone. Perhaps everyone wants to see how the team functions without centering (pun intended) around Cuz. Now we have Gay which changes the team dynamic. Ray seems to be coming into his own which actually doesn't surprise me. Evans has become an offensive beast by channeling his inner Boogie.
With a dialed back Cuz, you get less problems but also less points and rebounds from him. On the other hand, maybe the team will do just as well. Not sure.
i'd say that cuz "has taken himself out of beast mode" of his own accord. he's clearly been dispirited at times since the all-star break, and while some around these parts have been trying their damndest to craft a prevailing narrative that cousins' dip in performance is a petulant reaction to his all-star snub, my suspicion is that it's rather a combination of the snub, nagging injuries, a fairly disappointing trade deadline, and the weight of yet another losing season. 82 games is a serious grind, especially when the frustration piles up as any hope for the playoffs slips away, and you're a center with a persecution complex who gets routinely hammered night in and night out...
it also doesn't help that there is no clear vision of how this roster will eventually shape itself into a winner. it's a mess that needs a lot of sorting out, and we won't have any indication of where it's headed until offseason transactions wind down this summer. do all of these factors excuse those moments when DMC fails to give 100% effort? no, of course not. he needs to do his best to fight through such adversity. but it's also not hard to understand why demarcus might fall into the occasional slump, ya know, like the rest of the nba's top tier talent. when your eyes are so laser-focused on a single team, you tend to forget that most stars around the league have rough stretches during a long, exhausting season...
whozit
Starter
fixed it for ya.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It's been almost 4 years. Come on. Nobody knows what they have in Cousins because they don't know when and if Cousins is going to go off the rails again. It's not like he's been reformed for a year or two. He's talented......until he doesn't play. He can score.....until he gets kicked out. He can defend...until he gets snubbed for an All Star berth....He keeps control...until he doesn't. He could be a great player...and then he could just be a guy who is always his worst enemy, who can never control his demons... It's not hard to say that management doesn't know what they have in Cousins, because they don't know. The Duncan stats are just perfect: Who in their right mind wouldn't take a young Duncan in a nanosecond over Cousins? Saying management knows about Cousins is like saying a codependent knows what they have in an alcoholic. There may be a whole lotta hope there; but not much knowledge.
Padrino
All-Star
man, this is getting pathetic. you're trying waaaaaay too hard to back yourself out of a semantic corner here. the fact is we all know what we have in demarcus cousins; he is the most offensively-gifted center in the entire nba who's incredibly high ceiling is only handicapped by a volatile personality. you yourself just outlined the known factors: "he's talented... he can score... he can defend," etc. yes, he also has a penchant for earning a considerable share of technical fouls, but that is also a known factor. i'm not sure what it is you're actually trying to say here, that because we know demarcus is extremely talented but also prone to moments of immaturity, that we really know nothing about him or his ceiling? that's... well, it's hardly a leg to stand on, if i'm being argumentatively kind about it...
Unless I'm forgetting something DeMarcus has been ejected from one game (for yelling at the refs) and suspended for one game (for punching Patrick Beverly) and the only other games he's missed are due to injury including 6 straight due to a sprained ankle.
And while seemingly randomly punching a smaller player could be attributed to "going off the rails" you don't have to look hard to explain that action. Funny thing about that sprained ankle that kept him out. He hurt it when stepping awkwardly on another player - who happened to be Patrick Beverly. It was inadvertent contact with no malice in the actual action, but if you remember Beverly got a technical for standing over Cousins and taunting him while he was down injured. Immature for him to be seeking payback? Sure. Evidence that he "can't control his demons"? I wouldn't go nearly that far.
I'm guessing DMC will pick up at least one more T and face an automatic suspension. And if you want we can even throw in his 3 disqualifications from fouling out. All totaled that's five games. Less than he missed due to that ankle sprain.
DeMarcus Cousins is an overly emotional and immature player. He's also 23 years old and incredibly gifted. That's what we have in Cousins. Pretty simple in my opinion.
And while seemingly randomly punching a smaller player could be attributed to "going off the rails" you don't have to look hard to explain that action. Funny thing about that sprained ankle that kept him out. He hurt it when stepping awkwardly on another player - who happened to be Patrick Beverly. It was inadvertent contact with no malice in the actual action, but if you remember Beverly got a technical for standing over Cousins and taunting him while he was down injured. Immature for him to be seeking payback? Sure. Evidence that he "can't control his demons"? I wouldn't go nearly that far.
I'm guessing DMC will pick up at least one more T and face an automatic suspension. And if you want we can even throw in his 3 disqualifications from fouling out. All totaled that's five games. Less than he missed due to that ankle sprain.
DeMarcus Cousins is an overly emotional and immature player. He's also 23 years old and incredibly gifted. That's what we have in Cousins. Pretty simple in my opinion.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I've got a fantastic tax account for you. He's amazing with tax law. The only teency weency problem is that he'll go on a bender every now and again. If you get him when he's "right" he can do some great stuff for you. But if you have an IRS audit and he's "wrong", we'll, it could be a problem...
Padrino
All-Star
that's twice now in the same thread that you've compared demarcus cousins' immaturity issues to alcoholism. you're quite the king-ster of overstatement, aren't you?
Chubbs
Starter
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But it isn't a problem. He's missed one game this season due to suspension. One. And one ejection. That's the same number Rudy and Isaiah have. And the suspension was due to a premeditated shot on Beverly, NOT an emotional outburst. That doesn't make it ok, but it doesn't fit the picture of an out of control person.
You have such a desire to say the opposite of the consensus that you're trying to force something that really isn't there.
But it isn't a problem. He's missed one game this season due to suspension. One. And one ejection. That's the same number Rudy and Isaiah have. And the suspension was due to a premeditated shot on Beverly, NOT an emotional outburst. That doesn't make it ok, but it doesn't fit the picture of an out of control person.
You have such a desire to say the opposite of the consensus that you're trying to force something that really isn't there.
