Superhero Redux Playoffs - Round 1 The Zealots vs. 2+2=5

[Jespher]

Superhero Redux Draft Playoffs Round 1

4 vs 5 in Xanadu - Don Rosa Version

(4) jalfa - 2+2 = 5
1. Eriond - Malloreon Saga
2. Lobsang Ludd - Discworld
3. Dr. Manhattan - DC Comics

vs.

(5) ryanandty - "The Zealots" continued...
1. Ion - DC Comics
2. Rhapsody - Symphony of Ages
3. Sir Galahad - Arthurian Legend

Which team reigns supreme?

 

[Jespher]

This poll will close in 72 hours
Wednesday 6/9 at 3:45 PM

Everyone can vote for these playoff match-ups (even if you didn't participate in the draft). Don't be shy!

Feel free to back-up your rationale here.

 

[Emma]

Wait, can you vote for yourself?


Ion and Dr. Manhattan are essentially a wash, Rhapsody would change the kid's identity, and Galahad doesn't care about the time thief's supposed omnipotence -he's the G knight OAT- angels and stuff got his back.

What say you, worthy opponent? How would your folks go about manhandling mine?

 

[Jespher]

Voting for your team is most certainly allowed.

Interesting match-ups here, these teams look about as evenly matched as you'd expect from a 4 v 5 pairing. There's a bit of mutual omnipotence to take into account, creativity from both sides, and style points for great write-ups...I'll have to think about this one for a while.

 

[jalfa]

Ion and Dr. Manhattan are essentially a wash, Rhapsody would change the kid's identity, and Galahad doesn't care about the time thief's supposed omnipotence -he's the G knight OAT- angels and stuff got his back.

What say you, worthy opponent? How would your folks go about manhandling mine?

Well, I say if the matchup between the most powerful of your heroes and the least powerful of mine is essentially a wash, you know you are in a bit of trouble. It is of course difficult to compare entities from so vastly different universes as two fantasy sagas, but I can assure you that Rhapsody will most certainly not be able to change anything in Eriond. As I talked about during the draft, all powers of the universe concentrate upon him and he would have been impervious to all magical attacks outside those of a deity even before he assumed his place. It is far more likely that he would help Rhapsody with her troubles and convince her of joining our side.

As for the matchup between Ludd and Galahad, your problem there is that Galahad, as valiantly as he may have defeated fierce creatures and all that, is here faced with Time. Even before his transformation (weirdly enough a common theme in my valley), Lobsang was capable of stopping and bending time and could kick Galahad's arse in countless ways (all history monks are trained martial artists). Now, he can disintegrate everything into atoms, defy natural laws and even -with the help of his mother, if I recall correctly, but still- create pocket universes to transport people to. He can most certainly beat a guy that can't even remember his favourite colour:

[yt=Galahad]03Jli799lE0[/yt]

 

[Emma]

But sir, we act as a team . We got time travel too, Ion can control time, and Rhapsody is the mother of a child of time (but of course, he's not a factor).

Also, as I understand it, Galahad doesn't need a favorite color to lay a holy beatdown on anybody. One of the only two sinless beings ever to have existed needs no such trifling thing.

"My good blade carves the casques of men,/My tough lance thrusteth sure,/My strength is as the strength of ten,/Because my heart is pure."
- Tennyson

I think the real problem is your child god. You say Rhapsody would change at the sight of him? I say he would change at the sight of her. It's hard to explain, but she's way more powerful than I, or even she, lets on. If you pitted them one on one, I would have to say I would pit Ion vs. the sad blue guy, Rhapsody vs. Lobsang Lud (she kills demons on his level all the time), and Galahad and the child would have a spirited conversion conversation over tea, they would probably think along the same wavelength and talk each other into hangin' 'em up.



This is really a good matchup, all intricacies considered. I think Jalfa has more flash in his choices, whereas I conserved a little for later rounds - But first you have to get there don't you?

 

[jalfa]

See, your problem is, you don't really have time travel, at least not when Lobsang acts as Time, because in that case, he would simply not allow for that. If he should not be acting as Time, Time herself would and if she did, he'd just call on her and tell her to stop granting anything to Ion. I'm sure mother would oblige.

The matchups were just the ones you proposed, I'm pretty indifferent to who is pitted against whom, as I am confident that any of my three team members can beat any of yours. If, however, you asked me for my ideal matchup it would be:

Ludd vs. Ion
Dr. Manhattan vs. Galahad
Eriond vs. Rhapsody

Lobsang would just stop time, break Ion down to his molecules and vanish into this pocket universe of his that is filled with chocolate (he needed it because a former Auditor wanted to commit suicide, he kept it because he really likes chocolate). Sir Galahad, meanwhile, can talk about his purity and attack Dr. Manhattan as valiantly as he wants, in the end he simply hasn't the means to stop the big blue one from eradicating him. Manahttan would take one look at Galahad's lance and it would be molten, just as Galahad himself would be shortly afterwards. My position on the matchup between Eriond and Rhapsody stands. Noone, nevermind how powerful they are, stand a chance to simply change anything about him. Half of his entire universe once opposed his being made a god and didn't succeed. Now this half also stands behind him. I have trouble believing that Rhapsody would be capable of beating any of the lesser immortals from the Belgariad (Belgerath or Polgara, for instance), let alone the one that is to become the one god.

 

[Emma]

Oh you and your newfangledness. I am at a slight disadvantage, being so far removed from having read my source material, and picking such an obscure heroine, but Rhapsody has defeated would be Gods. She even has a kickass sword - Daystar Clarion, that immolates things with a heavenly fire. I think it would serve me well to dig up a resume for her and Galahad. I would also like to plea the voters to consider a new fantasy vs. classical fantasy slant.

Hmm... And (essentially) I see Galahad as an angel with all of the heavenly powers that come with it, seeing as how he did ascend to heaven upon finding the grail.

I'll try to find some info to back up my exuberant claims by the end of the day.

Well met, so far.

 

[jalfa]

She may have defeated all the would be gods she wants to, Eriond is a true god. The one God, as far as his world is concerned.

As for Galahad, I'll wait for you to find any sources of his being an angel, before counter-arguing anything and refer instead to this:

Galahad has been depicted with a dismal tone as can be seen in the work of Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur and also within T.H. White's The Once and Future King. Within these works Galahad is portrayed as a conceited, cold and pious young man who shows little interest in the concerns of his fellow knights. In later portrayals, such as that in works of Mary MacGregor's Sir Galahad and the Sacred Cup and other such works as Sir Galahad, A Christmas Mystery by William Morris, Galahad's character is changed to portray a knight that feels contempt for those around him.

Keeping in mind that you claim to rely on teamwork quite a bit, don't you find pairing this contemptful puritan with an ex-prostitute to be somewhat detrimental? It would seem to me that if Galahad spends too much time looking down on Rhapsody, she might go into one of her depressions, which may very well make render her incabable of fighting anyone, most of all someone who seems to be a small child.

 

[Emma]

Don't you find that the one god would not appreciate being in the company of others who would tamper with his time and physics on their own terms, even on a whim?

To answer your Q? about the ex - prostitute and Galahad: I assume you have your teamwork stuff ironed out; my scenario implies that my people have worked out theirs.

Addressing Rhapsody's power: The physics of the world are described in musical terms throughout the novels, she can alter these physics by performing. From a summary I found on Amazon:

Rhapsody, a young woman trained as a Namer, can attune herself to the vibrations of all things, tap the power of true names, and rename people, changing their basic identities. Her magic lies in music: "Music is nothing more than the maps through the vibrations that make up all the world. If you have the right map, it will take you wherever you want to go," (and from curledup.com, a book review site) Through her songs she has the ability to blend into the landscape, heal the wounded, and even to kill if necessary.

And if you're going to rely on outside help for time issues, Rhapsody's son is actually the god of time in those novels. I got just as much control as you do; like your man, all she has to do is ask.

Addressing Galahad's divine status:

"Now at the year's end [Galahad] arose up early and his fellows, and came to the palace, and saw tofore them the holy vessel, and a man kneeling on his knees in likeness of a bishop, that had about him a great fellowship of angels as it had been Jesu Christ himself; [...] 'I am Joseph of Aramathie, the which Our Lord has sent here to thee to bear thee fellowship'," (Le Morte D'arthur, Easton Press Famous Edition, page 444)

What does it imply to you? As a student of the English language (and not very good grammar) I know you can bend the meaning of the passage in more than one way; one of the ways is that Galahad becomes an angel in that fellowship.

 

[Jespher]

After long deliberation, I'm afraid I must side with jalfa's squad as they have home court advantage, and a bit of a lead in the omnipotent factor. I do like the Rhapsody match-up strategy though .

 

[Emma]

Hmmph...

Omnipotence - The inability to work with limitations; a character creator's cop out due to a lack of imagination.

 

[jalfa]

Don't you find that the one god would not appreciate being in the company of others who would tamper with his time and physics on their own terms, even on a whim?

I don't know why he should object, it's not like there aren't enough wizards and other natural law defying beings in his universe. Some of them are his best friends, even foster parents.

To answer your Q? about the ex - prostitute and Galahad: I assume you have your teamwork stuff ironed out; my scenario implies that my people have worked out theirs.

That's a bit too easy, though. How specifically have they worked it out? Especially if you include Galahad's representation in Le Morte D'arthur, as implied in your quote at the end, which isn't the nicest version of Galahad there is. I do make room for the possibility that it would work out somehow, but I can't believe that it wouldn't hurt team chemistry.

Addressing Rhapsody's power: The physics of the world are described in musical terms throughout the novels, she can alter these physics by performing. From a summary I found on Amazon:


And if you're going to rely on outside help for time issues, Rhapsody's son is actually the god of time in those novels. I got just as much control as you do; like your man, all she has to do is ask.

Ah, again the problem of different universes. I'll maintain that, since Ludd is last seen acting as Time, my team still has an advantage as far as control over time is concerned. As for Rhapsody's powers: What kind of people has she been shown to actually change through her music? Was she ever shown doing something to beings more powerful than a mere spellcaster? Apparently the god-mortal division is a bit muddled in that series, so this is an honest question.

Addressing Galahad's divine status:



What does it imply to you? As a student of the English language (and not very good grammar) I know you can bend the meaning of the passage in more than one way; one of the ways is that Galahad becomes an angel in that fellowship.

As I see it, Galahad only becomes an angel if he's actually deemed one. I understand it as him having the opportunity to enter heaven, which is an honour, sure, but not the same thing. It gets even more difficult, once you start considering which representation of Galahad you choose. After all, in most of these, Galahad never even finds sangreal.

 

[Emma]

That's a bit too easy, though. How specifically have they worked it out? Especially if you include Galahad's representation in Le Morte D'arthur, as implied in your quote at the end, which isn't the nicest version of Galahad there is. I do make room for the possibility that it would work out somehow, but I can't believe that it wouldn't hurt team chemistry.

I am unsure of how best to address your concern without delving into tenets of Galahad's religion that we are unable to discuss on this board, per board rules. Forgiveness friend, forgiveness. Don't forget the damsel in distress factor either .

As for Rhapsody's powers: What kind of people has she been shown to actually change through her music? Was she ever shown doing something to beings more powerful than a mere spellcaster? Apparently the god-mortal division is a bit muddled in that series, so this is an honest question.

Which is part of the reason that the series was so appealing to me. There is no single entity that is the great enemy, but an entire race of demon F'dor that possess the people who are of the greatest use to their plans of domination and destruction. I guess the most important person she ever changed was the greatest assassin to have ever lived (in her universe), someone she renamed "Achmed the Snake," freeing him from his own ill gotten F'dor demon bonds.

As I see it, Galahad only becomes an angel if he's actually deemed one. I understand it as him having the opportunity to enter heaven, which is an honour, sure, but not the same thing. It gets even more difficult, once you start considering which representation of Galahad you choose. After all, in most of these, Galahad never even finds sangreal.

Okay, since it's ambiguous anyway, I concede his angelic status. However, I will maintain his superhuman strength, his purity, and general badassness. Just have in the back of your mind that his homies up there may have something to do with a fight.


I hope that addresses most of the concerns. I got some stuff to do tonight

 

[Jespher]

Bump...Still a few more hours to vote for your favorite hero team .

 

[Jespher]

It's official! Congratulations jalfa, 2+2 is advancing to the next round .

 

[jalfa]

Well, 'twas a valiant fight. Cheers to you, worthy opponent.

 

[Emma]

Indeed, good fight. I look forward to sparring again, perhaps on villainous terms?

 

[SacKings7]

The voting numbers really seem to be down this year, do they not? Seems like not enough members visit the lounge very often.

 

[Emma]

I dunno, over three hundred views on this thread... I think people just don't vote. Maybe they're scared we'll get all upset or something, but I mean come on! Anyone can vote! That's what we put these together for

I feel like a politician right now.