Stern announces NBA dress code
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
thesanityannex said:
Been there, done that. You might be too young to remember the godawful lime green, banana yellow, and flourescent grape ensembles Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley would come up with. I know I wish I was.
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ONEZERO
Guest
ok stupid argument on my part, i know. but it just doesnt seem right to make them dress a certain way. and its not really the clothes they have to wear, its why they have to waer the clothes they have to wear. whats the reasoning behind it? better image? thats retarded. father:"hey son, iversons wearing a suit instead of a jersey". son:"yay, hes my hero now". plain garbage. man this guy stern is a real idiot. i hope they get enough players protesting against this pointless dress code and the rule folds.
acisking
Bench
KingKong said:
generally speaking...i see both sides of the arguments, but i can really identify with what King Kong is saying here...to set a dress code is the right of the employer but that should not be due to the potential for street clothing to turn away ticket buyers - in fact, it shouldn't even be about "cleaning up the NBA's decision...yes, VF's point makes sense - bosses can create company dress codes, but at the same time Iverson's commentary about who he is is very valid as well
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ONEZERO
Guest
KP said:
ok, now ur crossing the line. which guards have rings won on their own without a great supporting cast. i havent seen kobe do it, i havent seen tmac do it, i havent seen wade do it, i havent seen lebron do it, i havent seen regggie miller do it, i havent seen ray allen do it. com on dogg, quit hating on AI. cant make his teammmates better? hahaha. he made it to the finals with mutumbo and snow and nearly singlehandingly beat the lakers. and dont bring up that they lost in 5 games. the first 3 games couldve gone either way. hating on iverson means u dont like nba basketball. iverson is what a true nba player should be: play hard, play with heart, play with intensity, play for your TEAMMATES. and i think u should second guess whos being the joke here.
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thesanityannex
Guest
He is a member of the NBA, and therefore, must follow the rules, no matter how absurd the rules are.acisking said:
ONEZERO said:
Oh geez...
You actually think the players are going to protest something that lame? It's not pointless just because you don't get the point.
Stern didn't fold over players bad-mouthing the officials (which at least had a basis in a certain amount of fact); he's certainly not going to fold over something like this.
The FEW players like AI who don't understand or want to make a big deal out of will either conform or they'll pay fines. It's pretty much a no-brainer. If some gazillionaire wants to lose his livelihood over having to wear a coat and slacks an hour a day, he's probably better suited for the car wash anyway.
I'll just agree to disagree at this point...
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thesanityannex
Guest
How did he average 7.9 assists then? From what I've heard, you can't assist yourself.KP said:
Anyways, back to the topic at hand, the dress code.
In the form of protest, everyone should wear camo suits. I think they would look sharp and Stern would have a fit.
acisking
Bench
thesanityannex said:
true i agree with you, he has to follow the league's guidelines...my point is though that I could imagine his view that the NBA seems almost ashamed of the street image that Iverson represents...I do not contest the right of the employer to set restrictions on his or her employees, but rather the justification upon which the restrictions are based (and that goes for all occupations in general, not just the NBA)
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thesanityannex
Guest
acisking- I didn't miss the point, I am in agreement with you and have mentioned some of the same points you bring up.
thesanityannex said:
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ONEZERO
Guest
acisking said:
exactly. whats the reasoning behind the new dress code??? stern has none, he just wants to feel more superior.
ONEZERO said:
Oh ... my.
Iverson is self-absorbed, self-centered, egomaniacal and very, very rich. He is also one of the most tenancious players to ever play the game. The different qualities are not mutually exclusive.
He has feet of clay...you might not notice them because of the high $$$ footwear, but they're there all the same.
He's talking about being himself as though he's fighting for his right to vote or something. It's ingenuous because he's made MILLIONS of dollars from the NBA but still considers himself above the rules.
Life is compromise. AI wants to have it all and not have to give up anything in the process. Sorry, but I cannot feel any pity for him.
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thesanityannex
Guest
I can, its tough to find a FUBU dress suit these days.VF21 said:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
acisking said:
Actually the justification "due to the potential for street clothing to turn away ticket buyers" is just about the MOST legitimate justification you can have as a business. Its not personal preference. Its not because Stern wears suits and he just likes the way they look and thinks eveyrone should wear them. Its because (in theory at least) the CUSTOMERS as a whole will react better to them, and of course the customers are the people who pay everyone from David down to the RCD, and including the players. The customer is always right is business 101. If your business has an image problem amongst its potential customers, you clean it up. And that's 100% legit. And a non-self-centered employee is going to realize in the end that benefits him too. Or if he's truly narcissistic he'll just find another job.
P.S. Iverson threw a massive stain on himself last season when he showed himself unable to work with Webber. Throughout his entire career he has chased off every offensively talented player he has ever played with because of his selfishness, but last year was in many ways a final verification. Can't play with others. Won't sacrifice his game to make others better. They've spent a decade now having to construct teams entirely around A.I.'s preferences because he simply won't sacrifice for the team. Tremendous talent, always respected his touhgness and heart. But selfish and stupid as well and because of that will never win a ring.
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thesanityannex
Guest
If these guys can don a suit, I think Iverson can as well.
He could also wear one of these, I think it would count under the new rules.
He could also wear one of these, I think it would count under the new rules.
AI is a "joke" if he thinks anyone doesn't see that he has already "sold out", whatever that means. He makes millions playing basketball and takes millions in endorsements for his shoes, etc.
He can wear a flippin suit coat an hour a day getting on and off the chartered plane he flies in.
Grow up.
He can wear a flippin suit coat an hour a day getting on and off the chartered plane he flies in.
Grow up.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
thesanityannex said:
He can just ask his #1 fanboy Screaming Stephen A. for fashion advice.
Of course the thing is that they aren;t even being asked to wear full suits. No ties required.
KingKong
Starter
I think Meija nails it on the head
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/8934402/1
Stern's fashion model should stay off the runway
Oct. 6, 2005
By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion!
[font=Arial, Helvetica] More than three full weeks remain until the start of the regular season yet we've already got a fresh wound of controversy set to get infected.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] NBA commissioner David Stern, who got nearly everything he wanted in terms of concessions from the players union in the recently signed collective bargaining agreement, plans to institute a dress code. [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica] At a National Braille Press gala in Boston last week, Stern told the Boston Globe players will now be required to not only make more public appearances than they had in years past, but also abide by a new set of rules designed to make the league appear more professional. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Required: Sport coat, collared shirt, slacks. Out the window: Jeans, be they the baggiest Fubus or the tightest Wranglers. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "We're working on a job description," Stern was quoted as saying. "... The job is not only to go to practice and win games. The job is representing the NBA to all constituencies. Community relations. Public relations. Sponsor relations. ... Maybe we got spoiled by a generation of players who did these things as a matter of course, and as we got younger, we moved away from them. ... [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "Sometimes I worry that our players' intensity can be misconstrued and their effort can be misconstrued. They are the most intense, the most dedicated. I think the younger base of our fans understand that, but perhaps, the mid-to-older aren't quite as attuned to it. We'd like to use our convening power to have people focus on this game and our great players, who they are and how they play, rather than their variance from some norm. ... Being neatly attired in a certain way, that's going to be our norm." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Translation: The older, company-owning, money-spending, endorsement-bestowing generation thinks the league is filled with punks. The NBA is going to have to adhere to a more professional atmosphere, as phony as it might appear. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] It's quick to flip the race card in this matter. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] The NBA really wants to crack down on bandanas and loud chains, no? Stephen Jackson's gold teeth are in jeopardy. Discussing this issue with boxer Shannon Briggs on a South Florida radio show the other day, he was quick to point out why Allen Iverson was so quick to tell the Philadelphia Daily News, "I really do have a problem with it. It's just not right. It's something I'll fight for." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Briggs' point was Iverson is essentially the embodiment of the hip-hop culture, which certainly doesn't wear sport coats. Children who look up to him are not going to buy someone they clearly know has been a certain way for his entire life participating in a farce. In it's simplest form, it's selling out. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Don't confuse this as a black-and-white issue, though. After all, Jason Williams and Mike Miller roll with the hip-hop lifestyle. Reigning MVP Steve Nash would no doubt prefer coming out in a rock T-shirt and jeans, while Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag, cowboys, are clearly not comfortable with dolling up for presentation's sake. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "I don't mind if they clean it up a little bit," Ostertag told the Deseret News. "But ... they can go without them (expletive) sport coats." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] No, this isn't about race, but rather usurping one's free will. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] [/font]
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/8934402/1
Stern's fashion model should stay off the runway
By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion!
[font=Arial, Helvetica] More than three full weeks remain until the start of the regular season yet we've already got a fresh wound of controversy set to get infected.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] NBA commissioner David Stern, who got nearly everything he wanted in terms of concessions from the players union in the recently signed collective bargaining agreement, plans to institute a dress code. [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica] At a National Braille Press gala in Boston last week, Stern told the Boston Globe players will now be required to not only make more public appearances than they had in years past, but also abide by a new set of rules designed to make the league appear more professional. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Required: Sport coat, collared shirt, slacks. Out the window: Jeans, be they the baggiest Fubus or the tightest Wranglers. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "We're working on a job description," Stern was quoted as saying. "... The job is not only to go to practice and win games. The job is representing the NBA to all constituencies. Community relations. Public relations. Sponsor relations. ... Maybe we got spoiled by a generation of players who did these things as a matter of course, and as we got younger, we moved away from them. ... [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "Sometimes I worry that our players' intensity can be misconstrued and their effort can be misconstrued. They are the most intense, the most dedicated. I think the younger base of our fans understand that, but perhaps, the mid-to-older aren't quite as attuned to it. We'd like to use our convening power to have people focus on this game and our great players, who they are and how they play, rather than their variance from some norm. ... Being neatly attired in a certain way, that's going to be our norm." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Translation: The older, company-owning, money-spending, endorsement-bestowing generation thinks the league is filled with punks. The NBA is going to have to adhere to a more professional atmosphere, as phony as it might appear. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] It's quick to flip the race card in this matter. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] The NBA really wants to crack down on bandanas and loud chains, no? Stephen Jackson's gold teeth are in jeopardy. Discussing this issue with boxer Shannon Briggs on a South Florida radio show the other day, he was quick to point out why Allen Iverson was so quick to tell the Philadelphia Daily News, "I really do have a problem with it. It's just not right. It's something I'll fight for." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Briggs' point was Iverson is essentially the embodiment of the hip-hop culture, which certainly doesn't wear sport coats. Children who look up to him are not going to buy someone they clearly know has been a certain way for his entire life participating in a farce. In it's simplest form, it's selling out. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] Don't confuse this as a black-and-white issue, though. After all, Jason Williams and Mike Miller roll with the hip-hop lifestyle. Reigning MVP Steve Nash would no doubt prefer coming out in a rock T-shirt and jeans, while Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag, cowboys, are clearly not comfortable with dolling up for presentation's sake. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] "I don't mind if they clean it up a little bit," Ostertag told the Deseret News. "But ... they can go without them (expletive) sport coats." [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica] No, this isn't about race, but rather usurping one's free will. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] [/font]
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KingKong
Starter
contd...
Apparently, the league is OK with stepping back and allowing Eddy Curry to gamble with his life as long as he passes a few physical tests, simply because it's his prerogative to do so and New York's to employ him. But he had better hit the Big & Tall shop and get some new threads if he's planning on hanging around.
Although the dress code has not been finalized or instituted, Iverson already has decided he'll go the insubordinate route in response, choosing fines over conforming. But what happens if repeated offenses merit suspension? All of a sudden, taking a stand starts interfering with the on-court product, the driving force of the league in the first place. It puts Iverson in the pickle of weighing his responsibility to his teammates vs. standing by his beliefs.
"When I think I'm right, I stick with it," Iverson said. "I really want people to know that I do have a problem with it. It's not fair. Just because you put a guy in a tuxedo doesn't mean he's a good guy."
Undoubtedly, there will be others who cling to the belief, Stern one of them, that unless you're signing your own paychecks, you do as you're told. Period. It's rare that anyone can go into their employer's office and say, "I'm not doing what you're asking" without being shown the door.
"(The dress code) is a small thing that contributes to a sense of professionalism. ... We've always moved to the fashion of our players," Stern said. "Years ago, the fashion was a jacket and tie. Now, it's a much more casual approach. But our referees are always attired a certain way based upon their job description when they come into the building. Our coaches are attired a certain way when they come on the court. We decided that it was time (for the players)."
Stern has done wonders for basketball. He has globalized it, helped institute salary clauses that have made the league relatively balanced, and has ultimately made it one of the country's most-watched sports.
But in trying to tighten the reins on the direction of the game over the past few months, there have certainly been policies that have raised eyebrows. The age limit, on the week Michelle Wie turns pro before 16 and Sidney Crosby logs his first action at 18, immediately comes to mind.
Now come rumblings of a dress code. What's next? Mandatory curfews? Organized marriages?
"If you don't like this business, you can always go work somewhere else," Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan told the Deseret News. "We've got to try to sell this league any way we can, if it's a positive."
Not everyone thinks it's a positive, though. Frankly, it's an issue that has no bearing on what the sport is fundamentally about -- the basketball.
Instead, you've got guys debating what's acceptable as dressy-casual attire and what's not.
"It's totally unfair for some of these young guys who come in here on a partial deal to have to go out and spend money on (specific) clothes," Memphis' Eddie Jones told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "A lot of guys need custom clothes, and that takes more than a couple of dollars. What's wrong with a kid wearing a pair of nice jeans -- no holes and not baggy -- a pair of nice shoes and a button-up shirt? What's wrong with that?"
Meanwhile, players union president Antonio Davis was telling USA Today, "you can't say no jeans. I've seen businessmen in jeans, a sports coat and nice shirt, and you say that's classy."
Do you care what Davis thinks is classy? Whether Damon Jones sports sunglasses at a press conference because he's a likeable clown? Does it honestly make you squeamish to see Iverson and Jermaine O'Neal popularize the do-rag? Ostertag a giant belt buckle?
How about we just let them play ball, rather than making the lot of them resort to the spirit of the '60s and '70s. Looks like million-dollar athletes actually can be repressed. Who knew? Iverson, Ostertag -- organize a sit-in. Fight the power.
Apparently, the league is OK with stepping back and allowing Eddy Curry to gamble with his life as long as he passes a few physical tests, simply because it's his prerogative to do so and New York's to employ him. But he had better hit the Big & Tall shop and get some new threads if he's planning on hanging around.
Although the dress code has not been finalized or instituted, Iverson already has decided he'll go the insubordinate route in response, choosing fines over conforming. But what happens if repeated offenses merit suspension? All of a sudden, taking a stand starts interfering with the on-court product, the driving force of the league in the first place. It puts Iverson in the pickle of weighing his responsibility to his teammates vs. standing by his beliefs.
"When I think I'm right, I stick with it," Iverson said. "I really want people to know that I do have a problem with it. It's not fair. Just because you put a guy in a tuxedo doesn't mean he's a good guy."
Undoubtedly, there will be others who cling to the belief, Stern one of them, that unless you're signing your own paychecks, you do as you're told. Period. It's rare that anyone can go into their employer's office and say, "I'm not doing what you're asking" without being shown the door.
"(The dress code) is a small thing that contributes to a sense of professionalism. ... We've always moved to the fashion of our players," Stern said. "Years ago, the fashion was a jacket and tie. Now, it's a much more casual approach. But our referees are always attired a certain way based upon their job description when they come into the building. Our coaches are attired a certain way when they come on the court. We decided that it was time (for the players)."
Stern has done wonders for basketball. He has globalized it, helped institute salary clauses that have made the league relatively balanced, and has ultimately made it one of the country's most-watched sports.
But in trying to tighten the reins on the direction of the game over the past few months, there have certainly been policies that have raised eyebrows. The age limit, on the week Michelle Wie turns pro before 16 and Sidney Crosby logs his first action at 18, immediately comes to mind.
Now come rumblings of a dress code. What's next? Mandatory curfews? Organized marriages?
"If you don't like this business, you can always go work somewhere else," Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan told the Deseret News. "We've got to try to sell this league any way we can, if it's a positive."
Not everyone thinks it's a positive, though. Frankly, it's an issue that has no bearing on what the sport is fundamentally about -- the basketball.
Instead, you've got guys debating what's acceptable as dressy-casual attire and what's not.
"It's totally unfair for some of these young guys who come in here on a partial deal to have to go out and spend money on (specific) clothes," Memphis' Eddie Jones told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "A lot of guys need custom clothes, and that takes more than a couple of dollars. What's wrong with a kid wearing a pair of nice jeans -- no holes and not baggy -- a pair of nice shoes and a button-up shirt? What's wrong with that?"
Meanwhile, players union president Antonio Davis was telling USA Today, "you can't say no jeans. I've seen businessmen in jeans, a sports coat and nice shirt, and you say that's classy."
Do you care what Davis thinks is classy? Whether Damon Jones sports sunglasses at a press conference because he's a likeable clown? Does it honestly make you squeamish to see Iverson and Jermaine O'Neal popularize the do-rag? Ostertag a giant belt buckle?
How about we just let them play ball, rather than making the lot of them resort to the spirit of the '60s and '70s. Looks like million-dollar athletes actually can be repressed. Who knew? Iverson, Ostertag -- organize a sit-in. Fight the power.
tubiscus
Bench
It's about the Money!!!!!
The image of the NBA is very important to the growth of the "World Marketing" of the league. We all know expanding the market is Stern's shot at immortality. (In his mind anyway....It's not like they can name the trophy after him)
The big growth opportunities are in Asia where the business culture is very conservative and may perceive a slight from something as small as how a representative is dressed.
Obviously the issue carries over to our culture. When I was younger, hair length and style as well as the image presented by clothing became a big deal. It took years for it to calm down. Here we go again. It's business. It's about making money. Any NBA player, including Iverson will do what he has to do to get paid. Again, it's big business. It's about making money.
The image of the NBA is very important to the growth of the "World Marketing" of the league. We all know expanding the market is Stern's shot at immortality. (In his mind anyway....It's not like they can name the trophy after him)
The big growth opportunities are in Asia where the business culture is very conservative and may perceive a slight from something as small as how a representative is dressed.
Obviously the issue carries over to our culture. When I was younger, hair length and style as well as the image presented by clothing became a big deal. It took years for it to calm down. Here we go again. It's business. It's about making money. Any NBA player, including Iverson will do what he has to do to get paid. Again, it's big business. It's about making money.
loopymitch
All-Star
Most of you make very good points and I do see arguments for both sides although I do agree with a dress code. Is it going to kill them to dress nicely for a few minutes? They don't HAVE to wear suits although they should be proud too. They can sure afford them.
As far as AI goes, he is talented yes but he's also a selfish egocentric jerk. Many players have expressed he is hard to play with and when they moved away to other teams they played much better. What does coming from the ghetto have to do with wearing something that your "company" requires. He should be honored to play on the NBA, there are many who can only dream of it. Newsflash: the NBA employs you and you should adhere to their rules, no matter how stupid you may think they are. The NBA owes him nothing, he just acts like they do. Someone should dress him anyway, I saw him at an event here a couple of weeks ago and let's just say I wouldn't want to see my dog in what he was wearing! The other players there looked nice but he just looked like a total @$$. I guess it did fit him then.
As far as AI goes, he is talented yes but he's also a selfish egocentric jerk. Many players have expressed he is hard to play with and when they moved away to other teams they played much better. What does coming from the ghetto have to do with wearing something that your "company" requires. He should be honored to play on the NBA, there are many who can only dream of it. Newsflash: the NBA employs you and you should adhere to their rules, no matter how stupid you may think they are. The NBA owes him nothing, he just acts like they do. Someone should dress him anyway, I saw him at an event here a couple of weeks ago and let's just say I wouldn't want to see my dog in what he was wearing! The other players there looked nice but he just looked like a total @$$. I guess it did fit him then.
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ONEZERO
Guest
I don't think these players are mad that they have to dress up, they're mad at WHY they have to dress up.
Gargamel
Starter
Bricklayer said:
Iverson is such an embodiment of selflessness that the Sixers traded him to Detroit, but it got voided because Geiger refused to waive a trade kicker. After that, the Sixers were exploring a move to send him to the Clippers -- the point at which AI has admitted on tape that he needed to tone down his act.
Ask Larry Brown behind closed doors what he thought about Iverson. How many young points, against Brown's wishes, do you think would finagle their way into the starting SG slot come hell or high water?
"We talkin bout practice." = "No new taxes." Words to live in infamy.
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